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Lets get something straight

By Fucking White Male   2013 Jul 14, 3:27am   1 link   7,025 views   51 comments   watch (1)   quote      

A request from a 911 operator is NOT a legal command.

There is no legal requirement to do what a 911 operator instructs you to do.

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12   Fucking White Male   2013 Jul 14, 4:37am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

dodgerfanjohn says

rooemoore says

This is true. What is also true is that Florida has just made it legal to carry a concealed weapon, stalk and start fights with unarmed people and kill them when they appear to be winning the fight.

What you just wrote is emotional bullcrap.

No, what she wrote is 100% true. Zimmerman got off because he killed his victim, thereby making it impossible for the victim to say what happened. Meanwhile, a woman who fired warning shots, so as to hurt no one, at her husband who was trying to beat her got 20 years in prison. Same state. Same laws.

That's fucked up.

The legal message is, in Florida, if you pull out a gun, you'd better kill everyone in sight or you will go to prison for decades.

Son, its time to get back on your meds. Dr ordered it, you need to follow orders.

13   Fucking White Male   2013 Jul 14, 4:38am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

tatupu70 says

dodgerfanjohn says

Like I said. Emotional BS. I don't understand the constant lies and

misrepresentations in order to substantiate an opinion that GZ should have been

guilty.

Did you read my post?

tatupu70 says

Regardless of whether you think that's how the Zimmerman incident went down,

it does seem to be the correct legal interpretation.

So, again. Where is he wrong?

I can only repeat my prior post.

14   lostand confused   2013 Jul 14, 4:44am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

dodgerfanjohn says

Son, its time to get back on your meds. Dr ordered it, you need to follow orders

dodgerfanjohn says

Like I said. Emotional BS. I don't understand the constant lies and
misrepresentations in order to substantiate an opinion

dodgerfanjohn says

What you just wrote is emotional bullcrap

15   tatupu70   2013 Jul 14, 4:45am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

dodgerfanjohn says

I can only repeat my prior post.

Your previous post illustrates specific details to the Zimmerman case. I thought I was pretty clear that I was talking more generally about the Florida law. As such, you gave no reasons why rooe is wrong. I'm beginning to think you cannot.

16   Dan8267   2013 Jul 14, 4:48am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

dodgerfanjohn says

Son, its time to get back on your meds. Dr ordered it, you need to follow orders.

With that great analysis, how could you possibly be wrong?

17   rooemoore   2013 Jul 14, 4:51am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Let's all get conceal carry permits and start stalking and trash talking bankers when they vacation in Miami.

Actually, this might work.

For example: I was minding my own business about to putt on the 7th green. Several minutes later, the two pink and lime green polo shirted banksters playing behind me started yelling. One actually went ahead and hit his ball right at me. It came within 50 yards -- I feared for my life! The other one started to line up his shot. Panicking, I quickly pulled my AP4 LR-308 out of the golf bag. Luckily, the second bankster - the fat one - slipped while swinging and missed the ball entirely. As he clumsily recovered his balance I was able to lock my sight on his sweaty forehead. A moment later, the threat was neutralized.

Now the lime green one dropped his club and ran towards his golf cart. Fearing he intended to use it as a weapon - to run me over - I quickly aimed at the slow moving target and disposed of the second threat.

The worst part is, these bastards screwed up my mojo and I missed the putt!

18   Fucking White Male   2013 Jul 14, 4:57am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

tatupu70 says

dodgerfanjohn says

I can only repeat my prior post.

Your previous post illustrates specific details to the Zimmerman case. I thought I was pretty clear that I was talking more generally about the Florida law. As such, you gave no reasons why rooe is wrong. I'm beginning to think you cannot.

Cite the law and code.

19   rooemoore   2013 Jul 14, 5:00am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

dodgerfanjohn says

Cite the law and code.

Exactly, the law and code were tested by this case and that resulted in precedent being set. I think it is a dangerous precedent and that Florida is fucked up. You may think it's swell.

Point is, that precedent has been set. How can you argue with that?

20   Dan8267   2013 Jul 14, 5:10am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

rooemoore says

Point is, that precedent has been set. How can you argue with that?

His religion won't allow him to admit that there is anything potentially bad about the outcome of the Zimmerman case.

This case has proved that racism is alive an well in America, shockingly more so than I had thought. Forget about whether or not Zimmerman was racist. Just look at the reactions of the public. A third of white America praised Zimmerman as a hero and scorned Martin as a thug, while almost all of black America scored Zimmerman as a racist murderer and Martin as a victim.

Regardless of what the truth is, you don't get that kind of clear racial divide unless race is the lens through which the public is viewing the trial.

On the bright side, at least the other two-thirds of white America isn't so xenophobic. Still, public reaction to this case illustrates exactly why we still need the Voting Rights Act.

21   Fucking White Male   2013 Jul 14, 5:12am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

That's not even how legal precedence works.

For there to be legal precedence generally some ruling has to be appealed ad then published.

Lol@citing people vs. Zimmerman in a legal document.

Even then, how the heck would that apply to any other trial?

22   Fucking White Male   2013 Jul 14, 5:16am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Sorry, that was snarky.

Better if an criminal attorney chimes in here, but that's not at all how legal precedence works.

You wouldn't be able to cite a jury's decision as legal precedence.

23   rooemoore   2013 Jul 14, 5:31am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

dodgerfanjohn says

That's not even how legal precedence works.

Case law precedent. It is often used when a similar case comes before the court.

When I looked at this case I ignored the racial (and emotional) aspects(as best I could). I didn't play the game of reversing the roles or defining profiling, etc. I just thought is it in the public's best interest for one citizen to be able to kill another under the known factual circumstances of this case. My opinion is that it does not. I think GZ should be in jail for some form of manslaughter. But FL has some fucked up laws so he walks.

24   Fucking White Male   2013 Jul 14, 5:34am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

This trial isn't case law.

25   Fucking White Male   2013 Jul 14, 5:37am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Case law is the set of existing rulings which have made new interpretations of law and, therefore, can be cited as precedent. In most countries, including most European countries, the term is applied to any set of rulings on law which is guided by previous rulings, for example, previous decisions of a government agency - that is, precedential case law can arise from either a judicial ruling or a ruling of an adjudication within an executive branch agency. Trials and hearings that do not result in written decisions of a court of record do not create precedent for future court decisions.[3]

That's from Wikipedia entry on "precedent".

This trial decision won't be "published".

26   mell   2013 Jul 14, 6:47am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Everybody who is upset about this outcome should engage in changing the law in Florida instead of advocating for someone going to prison for murder who killed someone in self-defense.

27   CDon   2013 Jul 14, 6:59am     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

dodgerfanjohn says

This trial isn't case law.

Not going to comment on Zimmerman - I haven't cared about it in the slightest so I am not going to opinine on something I know very little about.

That said, dodgerfanjohn is correct re: precedent. While it is true that caselaw is a very important part of what the law "says", it usually only comes from appellate courts or above.

When it comes to a trial court, the outcome will have no bearing on the actual laws of the land unless the case is appealed, and even then, it somewhat depends on whether the trial case was affirmed, overturned, remanded (with additional instructions), etc.

Bottom line here, the Zimmerman trial had no bearing on Florida law whatsoever.

28   resistance   2013 Jul 14, 7:11am     ↑ like (9)   ↓ dislike   quote    

What it's really all about IMHO is a conflict between the society we say we have and the ugly facts on the ground.

We say everyone has equal rights under the law, but the statistical reality that blacks murder whites at about 10x the rate that whites murder blacks is an ugly fact that does not fit nicely with equal rights. And the difference in interracial rape stats is even much worse. White people are afraid of black people (especially young black men) with very good reason, everyone knows it, and no public official ever dares to say it.

So Trayvon had a theoretical right to wander a white neighborhood at night, but it was a lousy choice for a young black man, based on our current violent crime stats.

29   HEY YOU   2013 Jul 14, 5:12pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

What's the rate of white on white murders?
What's the rate of white on white rapes? Yes, I searched
Being the Racist that I am, I'm not thinking about these victims. I'm only concerned about "any" Black crime.
TM learned a lesson about exercising his rights. No one will catch him in public again.

GZ is innocent. GZ killed a child.

30   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   2013 Jul 14, 9:45pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

rooemoore says

Panicking, I quickly pulled my AP4 LR-308 out of the golf bag. Luckily, the second bankster - the fat one - slipped while swinging and missed the ball entirely.

You should keep your weapons drawn at all times around bankers. They live to kill customers. Every jury knows that.

31   HydroCabron   2013 Jul 14, 11:04pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    


We say everyone has equal rights under the law, but the statistical reality that blacks murder whites at about 10x the rate that whites murder blacks is an ugly fact that does not fit nicely with equal rights.

I think it fits fine with equal rights. Even if black men murdered everyone at 100x the rate that other groups do, they should get the same trial as everyone else.

It fits poorly with the legal system, however, because Zimmerman gets the benefit of reasonable doubt - a benefit I would have extended to him were I on the jury - while a black man would not. Maybe I lack imagination, but I can't visualize a black defendant in this case getting acquitted and having this degree of Internet support.

32   Reality   2013 Jul 14, 11:17pm     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

17 is not a child for the perpetrator of an aggravated assault. 18 makes a young man eligible for military draft; i.e. 18-25 are the prime combat ages.

Did TM deserve to die? No. He deserved to be arrested for aggravated assault and battery, possibly attempted murder; his defense may be able to cite the drugs found in his body to make a case of temporary insanity defense. However, given GZ's predicament finding his own skull being bashed against the concrete pavement, self defense against eminent threat to life became quite clearly justified.

33   lostand confused   2013 Jul 14, 11:39pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Reality says

17 is not a child for the perpetrator of an aggravated assault. 18 makes a young man eligible for military draft; i.e. 18-25 are the prime combat ages.


Did TM deserve to die? No. He deserved to be arrested for aggravated assault and battery, possibly attempted murder; his defense may be able to cite the drugs found in his body to make a case of temporary insanity defense. However, given GZ's predicament finding his own skull being bashed against the concrete pavement, self defense against eminent threat to life became quite clearly justified.

That is the killer's story. As they say, "dead men tell no tales." or in this case dead kids tell no tales. GZ was not even hospitalized-he had a few abrasions he sustained in the fight.

But the moral of the story-make sure you kill any witnesses-you will be free. Something the mob is quite the expert in.

34   lostand confused   2013 Jul 14, 11:41pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    


So Trayvon had a theoretical right to wander a white neighborhood at night, but
it was a lousy choice for a young black man, based on our current violent crime
stats

While I am aware it is the south-he was not wandering in a strange neighborhood-just returning home to watch a game with dad.

35   Reality   2013 Jul 15, 12:16am     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

lostand confused says

That is the killer's story. As they say, "dead men tell no tales." or in this case dead kids tell no tales. GZ was not even hospitalized-he had a few abrasions he sustained in the fight.

But the moral of the story-make sure you kill any witnesses-you will be free. Something the mob is quite the expert in.

There were witnesses who saw the beating. The cuts GZ had indicated severe pounding of the head on the pavement. There was no injury to TM except his knuckles that delivered the assault. They had weeks to examine TM's body; all they found were damages to internal organs and brain caused by possible chronic drug abuse, the type of drug called "Lean" that would have involved candies and soda (mixed with DXM), that TM was walking a mile in the rain that night to get. According to his social media communications, TM had been using "Lean" for years.

There was nothing "kid" about a 6 footer who had a history of drug abuse, burglary and suspension from school due to fights.

36   Fucking White Male   2013 Jul 15, 12:19am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Your screen name suits you well.

37   Reality   2013 Jul 15, 12:19am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

lostand confused says

While I am aware it is the south-he was not wandering in a strange neighborhood-just returning home to watch a game with dad.

LOL. Did you ever walk a mile in the rain at night to get some candy and soda, so as to watch a game? You obviously don't know the mind and drive of a drug addict.

38   lostand confused   2013 Jul 15, 12:19am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Reality says

all they found were damages to internal organs and brain due to possible chronic
drug abuse, the type of drug called "Lean" that would have involved candies and
soda (mixed with DXM)

Possible-so now possible is a fact? GZ was the one who trained in MMA. GZ was the one who did not require hospitaliztion. If someone pounded your head into a pavement, how long do you think your skull will last?

39   Reality   2013 Jul 15, 12:23am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

lostand confused says

Possible-so now possible is a fact?

"Possible" was a legalese for not pursuing the subject further, as the coroner was not putting TM on trial. In the vernacular context, that should be a "probably" to you. There is very little reason why a healthy 17yr old should have that kind of internal organ damage, except for chronic drug abuse.

GZ was the one who trained in MMA. GZ was the one who did not require hospitaliztion. If someone pounded your head into a pavement, how long do you think your skull will last?

TM also had MMA training. GZ was correct in recognizing that he'd better get the shot off, or he'd be dead soon.

40   tatupu70   2013 Jul 15, 12:24am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Reality says

GZ was correct in recognizing that he'd better get the shot off, or he'd be dead
soon.

lol. nominated.

What basis do you have to make that statement?

41   lostand confused   2013 Jul 15, 12:25am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Reality says

lostand confused says



While I am aware it is the south-he was not wandering in a strange neighborhood-just returning home to watch a game with dad.


LOL. Did you ever walk a mile in the rain at night to get some candy and soda, so as to watch a game? You obviously don't know the mind and drive of a drug addict.

Actually when I was a broke student in FL, with no car-I did walk in the rain. When I started, it didn't rain, but mid-way carrying my groceries in from the Winn-Dixie store-yeah I got caught in the rain. That is FL-it rians and pours and just like that it is gone.

42   lostand confused   2013 Jul 15, 12:27am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Reality says

TM also had MMA training. GZ was correct in recognizing that he'd better get the
shot off, or he'd be dead soon

Source??

43   Reality   2013 Jul 15, 12:28am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

lostand confused says

LOL. Did you ever walk a mile in the rain at night to get some candy and soda, so as to watch a game? You obviously don't know the mind and drive of a drug addict.

Actually when I was a broke student in FL, with no car-I did walk in the rain. When I started, it didn't rain, but mid-way carrying my groceries in from the Winn-Dixie store-yeah I got caught in the rain. That is FL-it rians and pours and just like that it is gone.

Grocery is a necessity for most people. Candies and soda are not necessities . . . except for drug addicts using them as ingredient for drug cocktail. Skittles are especially easy to dissolve and hence popular as ingredient for "Lean."

44   lostand confused   2013 Jul 15, 12:34am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Reality says

Grocery is a necessity for most people. Candies and soda are not necessities
. . . except for drug addicts using them as ingredient for drug cocktail.
Skittles are especially easy to dissolve and hence popular as ingredient for
"Lean."

Your point? Also still waiting for your source that Martin was MMA trained

45   Reality   2013 Jul 15, 12:38am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

lostand confused says

Reality says

Grocery is a necessity for most people. Candies and soda are not necessities

. . . except for drug addicts using them as ingredient for drug cocktail.

Skittles are especially easy to dissolve and hence popular as ingredient for

"Lean."

Your point?

Stop calling him a kid. He was a 6ft tall big young man with drugs in his body and a history of burglary and fights. When he was sitting on someone's chest pounding the victim's head into the pavement screaming "you are gonna die tonight motherf*cker," the victim had every right to mount a vigorous defense, including deadly force.

46   lostand confused   2013 Jul 15, 12:45am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Reality says

Stop calling him a kid. He was a 6ft tall big young man with drugs in his
body and a history of burglary and fights. When he was sitting on someone's
chest pounding the victim's head into the pavement screaming "you are gonna die
tonight motherf*cker," the victim had every right to mount a vigorous defense,
including deadly force.

He is a kid-wether you like it or not. That is the killer's version of events. The murderer in his 911 call never said TM was following him or that he felt he was in danger-he clearly mentioned that he was following him-which they asked him to stop. Kid ends up dead-shot in cold blood. You think that is fine-fine.

47   Reality   2013 Jul 15, 12:50am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

lostand confused says

He is a kid-wether you like it or not.

No, you racist pig! TM was not a baby goat! LOL!
He was a 6ft young man. There was nothing kid about him, just like there's nothing "kid" about flash mobs robbing downtown stores.

That is the kiler's version of events.

And well corrobrated by all available reliable 3rd party witnesses and physical evidences.

The murderer in his 911 call never said TM was following him or that he felt he was in danger-he clearly mentioned that he was following him-which they asked him to stop.

Then he was jumped on by TM several minutes later. Apparently the DXM in TM body made him paranoid.

Kid ends up dead-shot in cold blood. You think that is fine-fine.

Cold blood? They two were engaged in mortal combat, with TM threatening to take GZ's life.

48   lostand confused   2013 Jul 15, 12:53am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Reality says

No, you racist pig! TM was not a baby goat! LOL!
He was a 6ft young man.
There was nothing kid about him, just like there's nothing "kid" about flash
mobs robbing downtown stores

blah, blah, blah. Can't argue and keep up with your lies-so resort to insults. Still waiitng on your claim that TM was MMA trained.Reality says

Cold blood? They two were engaged in mortal combat, with TM threatening to
take GZ's life.

You watched Mortal Kombat last night-don't confuse movies with real life.

49   Reality   2013 Jul 15, 12:56am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

lostand confused says

blah, blah, blah.

So you prefer changing subject.

You watched Mortal Kombat last night-don't confuse movies with real life.

You are just making sh*t up as usual.

50   lostand confused   2013 Jul 15, 12:58am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Reality says

o you prefer changing subject.

Nope, you insult and speak gibberish. Make wild claims, but won't give proof. I keep asking for proof-you call me a racist pig-then you have the gall to come and say I am changing the subject?/Reality says

You are just making sh*t up as usual

That is you as usual.

51   HEY YOU   2013 Jul 15, 1:21am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TM using drugs is like White Republicans. They are fucked up.

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