patrick.net

 
  forgot password?   register

#housing #investing #politics more»
756,193 comments in 77,835 posts by 11,071 registered users, 6 online now: jazz_music, rpanic01, socal2, SpecialSnowflake, tr6, TwoScoopsMcGee

new post

COPS THREATEN TO TAKE KID - TWICE - IN ONE UNNECESSARY STOP

By APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2015 Sep 5, 12:12pm   9,937 views   43 comments   watch (2)   quote      

http://www.copblock.org/139689/car-broken-into-child-kidnapped-family-arrested-after-refusing-illegal-search/

On the face of it, the border ag stop is an egregious exposure to engineered forfeiture by cops planting drugs and calling a car they want a conveyance for contraband substances.

Everyone knows the story - but what's really twisted, what requires a special kind of evil is threatening to kidnap a child in front of the kid.

It happens twice in this one ridiculous exercise, at 11:22 and 15:04. The casual references at those moment are indicative of a kind of extra-terrestrial evil.

Welcome to the states.

« First     « Previous     Comments 4-43 of 43     Last »

4   marcus   2015 Sep 5, 4:18pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

Yeah, over a scam stop to loot automobile travelers

Please share sources of cars being looted while going through ag station inspections (note: almost all cars do not get inspected)

5   elliemae   2015 Sep 5, 4:39pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

It would have been a lot easier to just answer a question. He could end up going to jail on the Fruit rap.

6   APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2015 Sep 5, 4:40pm     ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Forfeiture stories are all over the web: cars, houses, boats, you name it.

The car itself was being lined up for taking. S'easy.

Search car.

Plant some of the weed you were going to smoke on break in the car.

Impound.

Drive.

As soon as the cop is in your car, he has all the access he needs to create a forfeiture scenario and enhance his pension take with departmental resources that can be abused in criminal enterprises managed by the police, or sold to police and their relatives for pennies.

The off-duty cop who suddenly appeared to check out the potential of the item the other guys had under consideration was telling. "Mikey, a live one. Nice SUV. Get down here. We'll be riding in style tomorrow."

His eyes got really very tense when the driver said the initial stop was recorded, likely wondering if a copy was dropped at a server someplace accessible to relatives, thus foiling the SOP of wasting a mark, chopping up the bodies and leaving the chunks in the desert for starving dogs and wolves to dispose of.

7   elliemae   2015 Sep 5, 4:46pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

Forfeiture stories are all over the web: cars, houses, boats, you name it.

Please, tell me one that occurred as a result of an agriculture stop where they ask where you're coming from and if you have any fruit. That's a no-brainer: answer the question rather than scaring the shit outta your own kid.

8   APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2015 Sep 5, 5:18pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

elliemae says

Please, tell me one that occurred as a result of an agriculture stop where they ask where you're coming from and if you have any fruit. That's a no-brainer: answer the question rather than scaring the shit outta your own kid.

The kid knew where he was coming from. He was being set up for the take down by the cops. Any answer the guy gave would have been noted as 'a notorious criminal nexus" right after the details about all the dope found in car after it was placed there by the cops.

9   bob2356   2015 Sep 6, 5:05am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

marcus says

Is it that, or was it a legitimate agricultural stop, at which the guy refused to cooperate in the slightest ? I know there have been plenty of stories of cops confiscating things from people and other police state kind of behavior, but it's hard to tell whether this is that, or simply a guy totally refusing to cooperate in the slightest, therefore inducing ever increasing demands from the law enforcement people involved.

I don't know for certain whether demanding his cooperation at that ag station was legit, but I believe it was. If it was, letting him know that if he's getting a ticket and he needed to give them his license and registration or he's going to be arrested and going to jail (and uhh, they have to do something with the kids if the father has to go to jail, which is what it sounded like the "threat" of taking the kids was about).

Are you actually thinking about what you are saying? Arrested at an ag stop? WTF. Now absurd. They should have calmly directed him to park on the side and wait. Then had CHP get a warrant and search the car if it was that important to either the ag guys or the driver. Plenty of stupidity all around.

10   APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2015 Sep 6, 5:51am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

bob2356 says

Are you actually thinking about what you are saying? Arrested at an ag stop? WTF. Now absurd. They should have calmly directed him to park on the side and wait. Then had CHP get a warrant and search the car if it was that important to either the ag guys or the driver. Plenty of stupidity all around.

I've gone through the federal version of this at any air port in another life - in CA, but by US Customs and it was immensely different. These guys just keep barking variations on 'SUBMIT TO MA AUTHORITE! OR WE TAKE THE BRAT!' I remember two guys demanding over and over again 'Where is the tent? We have to see it.' Then they went straight for my shoes and demanded I surrender any other shoes I had packed. It was obvious I had been working outside. While one guy pulled out the inner soles, the other tore apart my bags and kept repeating, 'The tent. We have to see it.' When the shoe fetishist was done, he took my passport and ran it to the airline rep to confirm I'd only checked through 2 bags. What distinguished my run in with Customs and the fishing expedition this guy was subject to was a real and expressed focus on an actual threat to be managed - May fly. I read about it and heeded warnings not to arrive in a US airport at the time with a tent and gave it away to a neighbor in my old town before I left. The second they confirmed the only bags I brought with me were next to me the Customs guys jogged off to run the crowds getting off the most recent flights and interrogate anyone with red necks. The entire time I was being delayed the Customs guys were clear and specific that they'd been charged with examining anything or anyone who could be harboring insects with potential to disrupt agricultural enterprise. Given what I knew about Customs at the time, I had full confidence they were going about their duties plainly and honestly pursuing bugs.

11   lostand confused   2015 Sep 6, 6:49am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

I've gone through the federal version of this at any air port in another life - in CA, but by US Customs and it was immensely different

You haven't lived in San Diego driven on Interstate 8. I thought the border patrol on the CA side were just horrible, until I drove into the AZ side. Absolute nuts- a bunch of 20 year olds on a lonely road in the baking heat eager to show everyone how powerful they are. I have lived and travelled extensively in third world countries-never ever felt so demeaned and somehow powerless. What pigs and they get taxpayer pensions. While illegal immigration is a problem-me thinks they should scare the people who hire them .

12   bob2356   2015 Sep 6, 7:19am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

bob2356 says

Are you actually thinking about what you are saying? Arrested at an ag stop? WTF. Now absurd. They should have calmly directed him to park on the side and wait. Then had CHP get a warrant and search the car if it was that important to either the ag guys or the driver. Plenty of stupidity all around.

I've gone through the federal version of this at any air port in another life - in CA, but by US Customs and it was immensely different. These guys just keep barking variations on 'SUBMIT TO MA AUTHORITE! OR WE TAKE THE BRAT!'

You did note I was agreeing with you didn't you? The ag guys acted stupidly and unprofessionally. The driver was just as bad.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

I remember two guys demanding over and over again 'Where is the tent? We have to see it.' Then they went straight for my shoes and demanded I surrender any other shoes I had packed. It was obvious I had been working outside. While one guy pulled out the inner soles, the other tore apart my bags and kept repeating, 'The tent. We have to see it.' When the shoe fetishist was done, he took my passport and ran it to the airline rep to confirm I'd only checked through 2 bags. What distinguished my run in with Customs and the fishing expedition this guy was subject to was a real and expressed focus on an actual threat to be managed - May fly. I read about it and heeded warnings not to arrive in a US airport at the time with a tent and gave it away to a neighbor in my old town before I left. The second they confirmed the only bags I brought with me were next to me the Customs guys jogged off to run the crowds getting off the most recent flights and interrogate anyone with red necks.

I go through US customs anywhere from 2 to 10 times a year for the last 30 years. I've never seen anything like that at US customs ever (French customs maybe if you are from north africa) . What airline rep did they run off to? Customs is usually no where near the airline desks and the number of bags is noted on your ticket. That doesn't even begin to make sense, if you ditched a bag you couldn't get back through security to get it back anyway. Why would they even think such a thing? Pretty tall tale.

13   Tenpoundbass   2015 Sep 6, 8:28am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

It's called a check point.
That video was made by this guy driving around looking for every checkpoint he could to make that video.

That being said, something needs to be done. But that guy is a genuine asshole for bringing his kid along to poke a stick in the hornets nest and should lose his kid based on that alone.

14   Tenpoundbass   2015 Sep 6, 8:31am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

If this were on the open highway it would be different than an illegal search. He drove into a government ran facility that was constructed for the purpose of searching.
He was not free to drive on, but he was free to turn around.

15   mell   2015 Sep 6, 8:42am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Anybody who defends this sort of crap done by the cops needs to have their head checked. If they had a dispute about the legality of their search they could simply have issued him a ticket and law enforcement plus the court would have taken care of this with regular due process without any arrests, kidnapping or violence necessary.

elliemae says

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

Forfeiture stories are all over the web: cars, houses, boats, you name it.

Please, tell me one that occurred as a result of an agriculture stop where they ask where you're coming from and if you have any fruit. That's a no-brainer: answer the question rather than scaring the shit outta your own kid.

That's typical for female hivemind thinking - a reason to repeal suffrage. The guy brought it onto himself that some blockwart cunt and her dickweed minion shat all over the constitution and broke into his car and kidnapped his kid - let's go back and discuss misogynistic "micro-aggressions" and yay Obama!

lostand confused says

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

I've gone through the federal version of this at any air port in another life - in CA, but by US Customs and it was immensely different

You haven't lived in San Diego driven on Interstate 8. I thought the border patrol on the CA side were just horrible, until I drove into the AZ side. Absolute nuts- a bunch of 20 year olds on a lonely road in the baking heat eager to show everyone how powerful they are. I have lived and travelled extensively in third world countries-never ever felt so demeaned and somehow powerless. What pigs and they get taxpayer pensions. While illegal immigration is a problem-me thinks they should scare the people who hire them .

Agreed. It's more important to stand-up for the rights of repeat felons and violent thugs when they get into an altercation with the police than to care about those of a peaceful family man. What's so hard to understand about that?

Lastly, if one is into states rights then they could make the case that they have at least the right to force you to turn around and not enter CA (which they seem to do). However following that logic the Supreme court had zero right to overturn Prop 8 as well because in both cases the constitutions either trumps states rights or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways!

16   mell   2015 Sep 6, 8:48am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Mr Happygoluckofus says

If this were on the open highway it would be different than an illegal search. He drove into a government ran facility that was constructed for the purpose of searching.

He was not free to drive on, but he was free to turn around.

They may have the right to refuse entry but only by use of reasonable force (this was completely unreasonable) - though even that is questionable wrt to constitutional rights as they should trump state rights as they did on the case of gay marriage. If the state is allowed to set up checkpoints preventing citizens to travel freely in violation of their (federally granted) constitutional rights, then they are also allowed to ignore federal marriage laws and much more and California (and Texas) should not have gay marriage.

17   APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2015 Sep 6, 9:56am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

bob2356 says

You did note I was agreeing with you didn't you? The ag guys acted stupidly and unprofessionally. The driver was just as bad.

Yes, just pointing out every indication I got from Customs was this was about one thing - the bugs.

18   APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2015 Sep 6, 10:09am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

bob2356 says

Customs is usually no where near the airline desks and the number of bags is noted on your ticket. That doesn't even begin to make sense, if you ditched a bag you couldn't get back through security to get it back anyway. Why would they even think such a thing? Pretty tall tale.

That was the sequence and I was aware of the details as I had no idea what they thought of someone who was away for years and been living outside. Coming back in, they were grabbing everyone who even remotely looked like a hiker. Me, they made it clear they were going to inspect my shoes. The first guy waited until the second guy confirmed the number of checked bags. That may have been a ruse to check something else, I dunno but May fly was a big deal and well known to anyone near farming or even retail food. Australians had reported the tent obsession at the time but the shoe thing scared me as I had one good pair of beefy sneakers and I was wearing them.

19   APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2015 Sep 6, 10:15am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

lostand confused says

What pigs and they get taxpayer pensions. While illegal immigration is a problem-me thinks they should scare the people who hire them .

The Customs guys were polite but relentless and verbose about what they were looking for - the bugs.

20   jazz_music   2015 Sep 6, 11:02am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

About 10 years ago I heard a German guy at a party in California laughing at our ridiculous claim to "land of the free." He says "you're not even allowed to enjoy a beer at the park or the beach."

True enough, most of us do not have good public transit options, so we become isolated with no socializing over fear of being arrested driving under the influence. An isolated public is convenient for oppression.

bob2356 says

People in other countries now laugh when they say the land of the free. Yes, they really do.

21   Strategist   2015 Sep 6, 6:45pm     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Jazz says:
"True enough, most of us do not have good public transit options, so we become isolated with no socializing over fear of being arrested driving under the influence. An isolated public is convenient for oppression."

I agree with you Jazz. It's so sad when cops don't allow you to drive drunk.
Good thing Patrick allows you to smoke the Jamaican stuff before posting.

22   Dan8267   2015 Sep 6, 6:57pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Again, this demonstrates that the "few bad apples" conjecture is utterly false.

23   Dan8267   2015 Sep 6, 6:59pm     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Feinman continues to assert his rights as officers attempt to extort him with citations, and threaten to pull him out of his vehicle and have his children kidnapped by Child Protective Services.

Child Protective Services needs to be dismantled. Obviously, they aren't interested in the well-being of children if they participate in atrocities like this.

24   Strategist   2015 Sep 6, 7:23pm     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Dan, you could be Americas secret weapon.
Any country we send you to, is guaranteed to self destruct in 6 months.

25   elliemae   2015 Sep 6, 7:38pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

jazz music says

About 10 years ago I heard a German guy at a party in California laughing at our ridiculous claim to "land of the free." He says "you're not even allowed to enjoy a beer at the park or the beach."

America: Home of the Free*

*Some restrictions apply, void where prohibited....

26   Dan8267   2015 Sep 7, 12:12am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Strategist says

Dan, you could be Americas secret weapon.

Any country we send you to, is guaranteed to self destruct in 6 months.

You know, you're not helping by condoning kidnapping.

27   marcus   2015 Sep 7, 8:15am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

Child Protective Services needs to be dismantled. Obviously, they aren't interested in the well-being of children if they participate in atrocities like this.

What would you have law enforcement do if they find themselves in a situation where they have to arrest an adult, that has children with them ? This is an example of one of the most important things child protective services exists for.

Perhaps they should say, "you know, normally you would get arrested for this, but ahhhmm, since we don't have any way of dealing with your kids if we arrest you, we're going to let you off with a warning this time."

You would very quickly have a new type of criminal, that has children with them at all times. There would be black market rent a kid businesses that would spring up just to support it.

28   marcus   2015 Sep 7, 8:24am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

Again, this demonstrates that the "few bad apples" conjecture is utterly false

You should watch the enitire video Dan. The cops bent over backwards, begging the guy to "please please please please please please please please please please just let us give you a ticket. Thats all we want. If you would only give up your license and registration, through a crack in the window, you can fight this in court, really, please please please. Please please don't make us break your window and arrest you" (paraphrasing)

The cops look like excellent cops in the video, seriously I think it might even be a training video. Where as the guy is a total douchebag.

29   marcus   2015 Sep 7, 8:42am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

These guys just keep barking variations on 'SUBMIT TO MA AUTHORITE! OR WE TAKE THE BRAT!'

I heard it as in the context of "ultimatley if you don't comply, the consequences to you would be that you get arrested and they would take your kids to child protective services." It might have been blunt, but from their perspective they are dealing with a retarded guy that doesn't understand why acting like an asshole right now is really unwise.

I mean what do you think is supposed to happen when someone says "fuck your stupid rules, that's not in the constitution."

30   marcus   2015 Sep 7, 8:47am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

IT can be argued that this guy is doing a service (for us all) to challenge them in the way he did and record it, and to to fight against what feels like a steady crawl towards us becoming becoming a police state. I can acknowledge that.

But in the video, it was the cops trying to do their job that I sympathized with, not the guy, doing whatever the hell it was he was doing.

31   APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2015 Sep 7, 8:55am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

marcus says

What would you have law enforcement do if they find themselves in a situation where they have to arrest an adult

They didn't have to arrest this guy. They could have called him an asshole, asked if he had fruit or veg and yelled at him for a while and sent him on his way.

Everything doesn't have to be escalated to a federal case. I've encountered lots of cops and they used to laugh at dopey shit like this. Make fun of people. Laugh at them. Call them shitheads and sometimes even explain themselves. Imagine that.

32   FortWayne   2015 Sep 7, 9:14am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

marcus says

What would you have law enforcement do if they find themselves in a situation where they have to arrest an adult, that has children with them ? This is an example of one of the most important things child protective services exists for.

Which is often used as a way to beat down population into submission to authorities who let their ego decide on whose children they are ought to take. Considering just how crazy people, think what would happen if a crazy all the way left/right winger were to take that job. You know some parents are going to suffer simply because of the disagreement between them and the nutcase in power.

That's why government should not have the right at all to take anyones children, EVER. Because once they can abuse the power, they will. It's human nature.

33   marcus   2015 Sep 7, 10:19am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Context FW, context.

Answer the question that you quoted. What the hell man ? Is nearly everyone around here clueless.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

Call them shitheads and sometimes even explain themselves. Imagine that.

That's what those cops did in the end. They literally begged the guy to slip his registration and licence through a crack in the window, so they could give him a ticket. But he refused, and tried to turn the conversation back to his constitution bs and what had how those ag inspection didn't have rights that were deliniated in the constitution to inspect his car.

THe guy was a noncompliant asshole from the start, working on some video project, and everyone interacting with him knew that. THat's some serious bullshit for them to have to deal with.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

They didn't have to arrest this guy

Of course, but when a govt official makes a simple request and you say no, it's going to escalate. You continue saying no and refusing to comply, it's going to escalate more. And of course the guy with the video knows that.

Look, when you're dealing with your children, sometimes you back off and not follow through with your rules, and let them have their way as a reward for being defiant. This is a little different when govt is dealing with it's civilians. They have rules that they have to follow to be consistent. Especially once they commit to their position that the person must comply. When one continues to not comply after that, it's simply a stupid exercise in seeing where it goes. FUN TO VIDEO TOO !! Weeeee, were having fun now!!

34   Strategist   2015 Sep 7, 10:20am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan as usual:
"You know, you're not helping by condoning kidnapping"

Strategist:
What kidnapping did you see?
Cops don't kidnap kids. Kids would be a pain in the neck, and you have to buy the ice cream cones to keep them busy.
Criminals kidnap kids to molest them, and extract ransom money from the parents.
Gosh, when you played cops and robbers as a kid, you must have always been the robber.

35   HEY YOU   2015 Sep 7, 10:26am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Thank you,Democratic & Republican voters for the out of control law enforcement.

36   marcus   2015 Sep 7, 10:27am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

WE do have some out of control law enforcement, but none that was exemplified in that video.

37   Strategist   2015 Sep 7, 10:31am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Stop making sense Marcus, you are confusing me.

38   marcus   2015 Sep 7, 10:43am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

And you should also cut the people (govt workers) some slack, because you know this pretty much almost never happens (at the Nevada/California Ag Station). They don't have a lot of experience with this. In this case it's only happening because the guy apparently has nothing better to do than to see what this kind of defiance leads to, and record it. Maybe he hopes somebody fucks up out of frustration with him, and then he can get some big legal settlement. Hey, it's not easy making a living these days.

He should move somewhere where it's cold and there's a lot of ice in the winter. Maybe he could slip on someones property, fuck up his back, and win a big insurance settlement ! Nah, this is better. He doesn't have to be a scumbag in this case,. In fact he's a real hero, fighting for all of our constitutional rights !

39   APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2015 Sep 7, 10:59am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

marcus says

That's what those cops did in the end

Not once did they mention inspection for agricultural pests borne via fruit and veg. It was surrender, get of the car or we take the kid.

They knew who this was. Likely they pulled up with the guys registration and license data on their cruisers' data console/laptop, including his real SSN, even if he had a state issued alternative.

A normal cop would have read off Albert Camus' SSN to him, to let him understand his identity had been recorded and he was on record, and then spent 10 minutes calling him every which end of an asshole and explaining why his cereal is better with fresh fruit and better for the kid and what pest vigilance means to all of that. Then he'd explain to the kid why he shouldn't take his father too seriously with all this paranoid crap, and sometimes bug check is bug check and the cops aren't kidnapping psychofascists or whatever other crazy shit it is that the old man is telling you. And your father knows and banks on that because if we were such monsters, ain't no way he'd expose himself and you to certain death and dismemberment and, in that, he is a disingenuous fruitloop who doesn't deserve his kid.

Otherwise, the cop is being used as an unpaid extra in the crazy guy's movie, leveraging the cop's slavish adherence to an escalation script which Camus was certain he would follow without thought or reason.

Cops have discretion and, while no one expects every last one of them to be a philosopher king at large, it should not be beyond their imagination to laugh at a clown instead of making them into martyrs.

40   marcus   2015 Sep 7, 11:10am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

Not once did they mention inspection for agricultural pests borne via fruit and veg.

You're talking about the cops right ? That stopped him after he drove through the AG station without being inspected ? They are simply following their rules. THe bare minimunm they can do is give him a ticket. That's what they tried to do. Yes, they have ways to find out who the car is registered to but not who he is without an ID.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

It was surrender, get of the car or we take the kid.

False. IT was get out of you're car or ultimately this could lead to your being arrested, and part of twhat thet means, depending on the age of your kids is....etc.. I know you don't have time to watch your own video. Maybe just play it from 40 seconds before those key times you mentioned and comprehend the context.

But the thing is, the cops didnt go crazy about it, and they were pretty concerned about the fact that this is obviously the guys video project, so they called their boss, who lowered the ultimatum down to: please slip us your ID and insurance info. They made it very clear that that was all they needed, and what they highly preferred. They literally begged the guy to let them give him a ticket so they wouldn't have to take it to a higher level.

THe part about the kids did not sound like a threat. Accept one time where the guy says "so you're threating to take my kids" and the one cop says yep we are. But that was after the context (15 seconds earlier) was very clear (something to the effect): you would be arrested, and then depending on the age of your kids they would go to CPS.

41   marcus   2015 Sep 7, 11:22am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

FortWayne says

Which is often used as a way to beat down population into submission to authorities who let their ego decide on whose children they are ought to take.

Yes, I'm sure the hundreds of pages of rules and all the govt attorneys involved, usually disregard things like criminal abuse done by parents and always default to the "let your ego be the guide."

Yes there are stories of questionable cases of children being taken from parents who were entitled to the particular ways that they had abused their kids, or even worse mistakes. But obviously that happens because there is a lot of abuse that happens to kids that crosses a line, in which CPS needs to intervene. IF you have CPS intervening in those cases where they should, then lines (definitions of criminally abusive parental behavior) are going to be drawn and mistakes are going to be made. But probably even in those cases where CPS is overzealous or makes a mistake it's sometimes an alert to parents that they might want to rethink some of their behavior. That is probably a good thing - even if it simultaneously adds to their libertarian beleifs.

42   Dan8267   2015 Sep 7, 12:14pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

marcus says

What would you have law enforcement do if they find themselves in a situation where they have to arrest an adult, that has children with them ? This is an example of one of the most important things child protective services exists for.

You cannot tolerate crime in an organization simply because it does good some of the time. The organization itself must be disbanded and replaced with a new one that does not use any of the personnel from the old organization. CPA should not keep the children from the lawful guardians or adults the guardians call in if an adult is arrested while in custody of children. Furthermore, if the police wrongfully arrest an adult with children forcing CPA to take the children even for the shortest of time, then CPA has a moral obligation to prosecute the police involved for kidnapping and endangering the welfare of children. To aid the police and not hold them accountable for crimes against children is to condone those crimes.

I'd go further and immediately defund and disband the entire California Department of Food and Agriculture. Any government organization that engages in organized crime -- and that is exactly what this is -- should be dismantled and its members barred from state employment or office for life. Do this once, just once, and no government organization would even risk doing something that remotely appears sketchy. Every organization first and foremost protects itself. Use this to make organizations fear breaking the law.

43   TwoScoopsMcGee   2015 Sep 8, 12:46pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

The first step is to Centralize, yes, Centralize, the Police. The #1 font of corruption and punishment avoidance is the large number of Independent Police Chiefs who cover up Police Crimes, for two reasons: 1) To get the Cop Union approval because 2) They are constantly switching jobs like University Admins for more money and need the good word from Cops and Prosecutors to win over the County/City officials in the hiring process. So they have every incentive to conceal misdeeds and therefore not discipline underlings, since to discipline you must start a paper trail.

« First     « Previous     Comments 4-43 of 43     Last »

users   about   suggestions   contact  
topics   random post   best comments   comment jail  
patrick's 40 proposals  
10 reasons it's a terrible time to buy  
8 groups who lie about the housing market  
37 bogus arguments about housing  
get a free bumper sticker:

top   bottom   home