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Fuck the jury trial system and pray you never EVER get charged in this country

By iwog   2015 Oct 30, 10:54pm   1 link   8,051 views   34 comments   watch (0)   quote      

Those who don't think men are subjected to GROSS discrimination in this country have their head deep up their own ass.

Fact of the case:

- Scott Espinosa arrested for raping and pimping a 14-year old girl.
- Accuser claims she was kidnapped, forced to fuck other men, held for days in his apartment.
- Espinosa convicted of 6 felonies including forced rape and pimping.
- This innocent man is held in prison for 589 days based on nothing more than the "victim's" testimony.
- Scott Espinosa's mother is so upset that she commits suicide.
- Fortunately Scott has a guardian angel attorney named Laura Wilson
- Ms. Wilson discovers 14-year old "victim" is actually 23-year old prostitute with 3 children. (I'm not shitting you)
- Discovers numerous witnesses who claim she wasn't being held against her will.
- Discovers accuser can't keep any of her stories straight.
- Man is finally released but still forced to accept a guilty plea of pandering.

First of all I hope he gets a good lawyer and sues San Diego for $100 billion dollars. Second of all it is a national disgrace that ANYONE can be convicted of ANY crime based solely on the testimony of a single witness. This type of jury misconduct is basically shitting on the constitution but Americans are too bloody stupid to realize it. Lastly I hope this bitch sticks herself with an HIV needle and dies a horrible painful AIDS death.

Any questions?

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/my-mom-died-thinking-im-rapist-man-wrongfully-convicted-rape-released-prison

#politics

Comments 1-34 of 34     Last »

1   BlueSardine   2015 Oct 30, 11:23pm     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Yeah.
Never trust a libby jury to deliver the goods???

The city of San Diego itself is more Democratic than the county's average and has voted for Democrats Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Obama, respectively, in the last six presidential elections. In the 2004 presidential election, San Diego, Encinitas, National City, Del Mar, and some other areas voted for John Kerry

iwog says

Any questions?

2   iwog   2015 Oct 30, 11:52pm     ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (4)   quote    

SoftShell says

Never trust a libby jury to deliver the goods???

The biggest atrocities in the jury system, those that involve innocent people being put to death, are generally found in Texas and other red states. Take a look at the innocence project if you're too stupid to know this for yourself.

However it's an indictment of the SYSTEM that morons are able to serve on juries and deliver anti-constitutional verdicts. As as function of how uneducated a population is, Republicans are the least educated and therefore the most incompetent to serve on juries.

3   lostand confused   2015 Oct 31, 6:13am     ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

I don't think the money is enough. They should file criminal charges against all gubmnt officers involved, as well as the hooker. But we all know that will never happen. There are some in this very forum that say this is ok-that it is karma for some men in some far corner of the world commiting some atrocity a millennia ago or that men should be afraid and it should never be exact proof required and a few innocent men being convicted is just fine .

4   BlueSardine   2015 Oct 31, 6:16am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

So what's your alternative?

iwog says

Fuck the jury trial system and pray you never EVER get charged in this country

5   iwog   2015 Oct 31, 11:09am     ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

SoftShell says

So what's your alternative?

Professional jury system.

6   Reality   2015 Oct 31, 7:25pm     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

They need to pay more for jury duty, so competent people with high opportunity cost do not look for ways to get out of jury duty, leaving morons serving as jurors.

7   Dan8267   2015 Nov 1, 12:32am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

In order to act as a disincentive to wrongful convictions, whenever an innocent is wrongfully convicted and it is proven, the judge, jury, prosecutor, and all police involved in the arrest or trial should have to serve whatever sentence the wrongfully convicted was given. Then reasonable doubt will have meaning.

8   bob2356   2015 Nov 1, 4:06am     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Professional jury system.

How do you get a professional jury system that has any less bias than random selection? Do you really believe the same politics and problems that exist with the prosecutors, judges, and defence lawyers now won't become part of a professional jury system? Do you still believe in the tooth fairy also?

9   Tenpoundbass   2015 Nov 1, 6:46am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Professional jury system.

Ah so you want and activist Jury now?

10   indigenous   2015 Nov 1, 6:48am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

From what I read a big part of the problem is with the plea bargaining in general as the cops apparently get brownie points (read money) for convictions.
Why in the fuck Espinosa had to plea at all is more salt in the wound, I suspect so some asshole cop could get some brownie points.

IMO they should do away with the jury system and just have judges make the decisions.

IMO we should also make better use of jury nullification.

11   bob2356   2015 Nov 1, 7:45am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

indigenous says

From what I read a big part of the problem is with the plea bargaining in general as the cops apparently get brownie points (read money) for convictions.

How do cops get money for convictions? They are on a government pay scale. Care to document how this works?

12   TwoScoopsMcGee   2015 Nov 1, 7:59am     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

More likely the Prosecutors, who dream of being AG and Governor and then President, want to keep their numbers up for Campaign Bragging.

"I nabbed 80 sex offenders. But I won't tell you that 40 of them were 17 year old Seniors fondling their 15 year old Sophomore Girlfriends, 25 of them were dudes who pinched somebody's ass at a party, 13 of them were drunk guys who mooned somebody or ran around naked, and only 2 were actual sexual predators the way most people think of the term.."

13   indigenous   2015 Nov 1, 8:17am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

If you want to document this go right ahead.

The obvious is that cops are motivated by convictions as this is the metric of their job. I have Anecdotally seen this as well. The average salary of a cop in Calif is 100k with captains making 50% more than that. This is the motivation and all the documentation I need.

The court system is lousy with plea bargains, most criminal cases involve plea bargaining.

Also this camouflages lousy detective work which is already abominable. 35% of murders go unsolved, in the 60s (with less technology) it was 10%.

14   bob2356   2015 Nov 1, 8:24am     ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

thunderlips11 says

More likely the Prosecutors, who dream of being AG and Governor and then President, want to keep their numbers up for Campaign Bragging.

The conflict of interest in elected district attorneys is pretty hard to overlook. DA's frequently have obstructed any and all efforts to reopen cases even when there is clear evidence people are innocent. Even more ironic is cases where people have been convicted on new evidence but the innocent person originally convicted takes months and months for the DA to release. Sometimes to only option is got get the case moved to a federal court if possible. Look at Rubin Carter. After being stymied in NJ courts for 22 years it literally took minutes for a federal judge to throw the whole thing out. Things aren't any better today.

15   TwoScoopsMcGee   2015 Nov 1, 8:29am     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

And they're unapologetic, and the BAR doesn't discipline them, even in cases where it's obvious they withheld exculpatory evidence or railroaded somebody into a plea deal knowing damn well they were innocent.

But my all time fav is the grand jury bullshit where the Prosecutor acts as an accused cops Defense Attorney, doing everything possible to come back with NO indictment. Why would Prosecutors want to ruin relationships with the guys who bring them the cases?

16   bob2356   2015 Nov 1, 8:35am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

indigenous says

If you want to document this go right ahead.

The obvious is that cops are motivated by convictions as this is the metric of their job. I have Anecdotally seen this as well. The average salary of a cop in Calif is 100k with captains making 50% more than that. This is the motivation and all the documentation I need.

Police get promoted for arrests and tickets, convictions are the metric of the prosecutors.

Bullshit, the average salary of a cop in CA isn't 100k.

Yes, anecdotal is all the documentation you ever need. Everyone knows that.

17   bob2356   2015 Nov 1, 8:37am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

thunderlips11 says

And they're unapologetic, and the BAR doesn't discipline them, even in cases where it's obvious they withheld exculpatory evidence or railroaded somebody into a plea deal knowing damn well they were innocent.

Much stronger penalties for police, judicial, and prosecutorial misconduct are long over due, but it's not going to happen no matter what.

18   indigenous   2015 Nov 1, 8:48am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

bob2356 says

Police get promoted for arrests and tickets, convictions are the metric of the prosecutors.

Care to document that?

bob2356 says

Bullshit, the average salary of a cop in CA isn't 100k.

This:

California police officers made, on average, $97,500, including overtime, incentive pay and payouts upon retirement during 2013, according to a Bee analysis of new data from the state controller's office. Firefighters and engineers earned, on average, $125,100. Average pay for police captains across the state was $166,500; for fire captains, it was $153,600.

From this: http://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/article2573210.html#storylink=cpy

bob2356 says

Yes, anecdotal is all the documentation you ever need. Everyone knows that.

Fuck Off, I rarely see you document anything...

19   bob2356   2015 Nov 1, 9:04am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

indigenous says

California police officers made, on average, $97,500, including overtime, incentive pay and payouts upon retirement during 2013

You said salary. Want to try again?

indigenous says

Fuck Off, I rarely see you document anything...

I document anything that can't be looked up in 2 seconds with google. Just because you don't know how to use google don't be pissy with me.

20   indigenous   2015 Nov 1, 9:07am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

bob2356 says

You said salary. Want to try again?

No, that is trivial, and you're grasping at straws.

bob2356 says

I document anything that can't be looked up in 2 seconds with google. Just because you don't know how to use google don't be pissy with me.

No you don't.

21   iwog   2015 Nov 1, 5:11pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Tenpoundbass says

iwog says

Professional jury system.

Ah so you want and activist Jury now?

Nawww, "activist jury" is just what morons translate "professional jury" into. See here's the deal. Some people are so fucking stupid in this country that they don't understand English and filter everything through their brainwashing flow chart. That would be you.

Normal people who aren't brain damaged realize that RANDOM juries are made up up people the same way professional juries would be made up of people and PEOPLE are sometimes activist. Therefore there should be absolutely no reason why a professional jury would be any more activist than a random jury would be. The difference is that a professional jury would be collected from people who have been tested and background checked and can pass an IQ test. Say something like "Was there any scandal involved in Benghazi?" People who answer "Yes" are obviously too fucking stupid to serve on a jury (or vote for that matter) and would be excluded.

Sound about right?

22   Quigley   2015 Nov 1, 6:01pm     ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

The real problem with jury trials is well understood by attorneys: people make decisions based on emotions and look for facts to justify them. The idea that people can be convinced by a logical argument is just pie in the sky hope and wishing, and it doesn't pay the bills. People decide and then they try to justify their decisions (or don't bother) depending on how much their tiny brains are engaged. The percentage of population that decides based on verifiable fact is negligibly tiny.

23   iwog   2015 Nov 1, 7:15pm     ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

I have been on one single criminal jury. A first degree murder trial with special circumstances of torture. The issue wasn't the killing but 1st, 2nd, or manslaughter. That's all we had to decide.

After the murder, the suspect walked around dazed with the bloody weapon in his hand and told a neighbor what he did. There was also not one shred of evidence of premeditation none. That excludes 1st.

During the murder, there was a moment when the victim was face down and probably unconscious. The killer drove the weapon into her skull. That excludes manslaughter.

The correct verdict was simple and obvious. So what was the first vote?

6 of us for 2nd.
2 for manslaughter
4 for 1st.

The painful reality that I'm slowly beginning to understand is that the average American is NOT capable of abstract thought and critical thinking. People are dangerous to democracy because they are too ego driven and ignorant to make intelligent decisions that affect other people. I've pointed out the founding fathers understood this well and attempted to craft a government that was both democratic AND insulated against the mob. Unfortunately the mob was too strong and wrote those provisions out of government.

What we have now is the religion of American government where people are bullied into having faith that we're the greatest nation on earth. In some ways, maybe we are, and maybe the species known as humans aren't capable of anything better. However my respect for the law and justice system are gone completely. Bush v. Gore determined the constitution is irrelevant. Juries have determined the constitution is irrelevant. The Patriot Act, the sex persecution witch hunt, discrimination against men, and a basket of other things have proven to me that the high ideals are all a gigantic fraud.

24   indigenous   2015 Nov 1, 7:30pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

iwog says

jury would be collected from people who have been tested and background checked and can pass an IQ test.

Would you pass the test?

25   iwog   2015 Nov 1, 7:45pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

indigenous says

Would you pass the test?

Yes.

26   indigenous   2015 Nov 1, 8:00pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Then I'm skeptical of the test.

27   iwog   2015 Nov 1, 8:08pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

indigenous says

Then I'm skeptical of the test.

From the lunatic's point of view, everyone outside the asylum is insane.

28   Quigley   2015 Nov 1, 8:42pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

I understand that Wonko the Sane built an asylum for the world, with a waiting room "outside" where the it could be observed. He sincerely hopes the poor thing gets better!

29   YesYNot   2015 Nov 2, 8:37am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

30   FortWayne   2015 Nov 2, 5:43pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Now that is the worst kind of injustice. That bitch should be in prison, there got to be consequences for false accusations.

31   elliemae   2015 Nov 2, 7:07pm     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

FortWayne says

That bitch should be in prison,

At the very least. Our system is totally fucked up, and his representation was severely lacking in every respect.

32   NuttBoxer   2015 Nov 3, 11:14am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

As a San Diegan I'm embarrassed.

The problem here is systemic, and cannot be solved without a total abolition of the current system. It starts with the judges, who will instruct juries contrary to the constitution(see jury annulment). Then you have the prosecutors and DA's who are paid to win, not find the truth. Ohh, and the Jury Selection process used to weed out anyone with independent thinking skills and a spine. Justice System is as accurate as any other Orwellian term you can think of.

I worked for a company making a device for the forensic DNA field. During the project I learned that lab analysts are paid for convictions, not acquittals. Also learned that the DNA techniques currently in use are about 20 years old, leave out critical sequencing data that could completely change an analysis, and the whole process is generally fraught with the potential for error. I remember my boss saying quite clearly that he never wanted any of his DNA anywhere near these systems.

33   indigenous   2015 Nov 3, 5:10pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

NuttBoxer says

It starts with the judges, who will instruct juries contrary to the constitution(see jury annulment).

Part of the problem is that judges do not recognize jury nullification. Not sure of the diff between that and annulment?

34   NuttBoxer   2015 Nov 6, 10:39am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

indigenous says

Not sure of the diff between that and annulment?

I was in a marriage mood when I wrote that, should be nullification.

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