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Those coal jobs aren't coming back ...

By Rew   Jun 6, 3:54pm   8 links   1,376 views   34 comments   watch (0)   quote      

Those coal jobs aren't coming back ...
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/06/pruitt-epa-coal-jobs-exaggerate/529311/

And California is making deals with China on alternative energy ...
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/336537-california-signs-deal-with-china-to-combat-climate-change

Comments 1-34 of 34     Last »

1   HEY YOU   1062/1062 = 100% civil   Jun 6, 6:09pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Then Trump's a liar.
Republican coal states believed the lie,dumb Trumpians.

2   Strategist   2026/2031 = 99% civil   Jun 6, 6:56pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Rew says

Those coal jobs aren't coming back ...

We don't need coal jobs anymore. They are being replaced by jobs in alternative fuels.
Good jobs, clean jobs. What more can we ask for?

3   TwoScoopsMcGee   1709/1709 = 100% civil   Jun 6, 7:37pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Strategist says

We don't need coal jobs anymore. They are being replaced by jobs in alternative fuels.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/trump-wants-to-build-a-border-wall-covered-in-solar-panels

Imagine the Wall covered with Solar Panels, from coast to coast, generating power through the most sunlit parts of the Continent.

https://www.axios.com/trump-pitched-republican-leaders-on-a-solar-paneled-border-wall-2435037888.html

Unless one side is so partisan they won't give an inch, we'll get both Immigration Control and a Huge Clean Energy Project. A win-win.

It might also push the environmentalists, desperate for a big Green Energy project, away from the Illegals First! Democratic Party.

4   Tenpoundbass   1417/1419 = 99% civil   Jun 7, 8:16am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Now there's a wall for the people. It provdides green energy, and it's a wall people can't scale.

5   Tenpoundbass   1417/1419 = 99% civil   Jun 7, 9:29am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

I remember a few weeks back the Libs were saying that John Kelly was going to expand the HB1 visa program.
Didn't happen, yesterday he announced he's dropping it.
Getting your news from NYT about Trump is akin to mental masturbation.

6   joeyjojojunior   883/888 = 99% civil   Jun 7, 9:45am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

"I remember a few weeks back the Libs were saying that John Kelly was going to expand the HB1 visa program. Didn't happen, yesterday he announced he's dropping it."

All I see are quotes from Homeland Security in April about combatting fraud. He said something yesterday?

7   Tenpoundbass   1417/1419 = 99% civil   Jun 7, 9:57am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

joeyjojojunior says

All I see are quotes from Homeland Security in April about combatting fraud. He said something yesterday?

Sorry your news source is a partisan hack that thinks you can't handle the truth.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/06/06/dhs-kelly-h-2b-drugs-haiti/

8   Tenpoundbass   1417/1419 = 99% civil   Jun 7, 10:01am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

In response to Kelly, Heitkamp asked for visas to import foreign doctors for North Dakota towns. Nationwide, there’s a shortage of doctors outside the main cities partly because the federal government constricts the number of training slots for students at American hospitals. “It’s extraordinarily difficult to recruit physicians to my state,” she said. Many foreign doctors use the J-1 Visa to gain residency in the United States, sharply reducing the number of doctors in their homelands.

So Obama was fucking us in the Ass hard with Obamacare. Saddle students with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student debt, then not allow them to get the experience to work while that imported Muslim and Haitian docotrs that give hepititis and septis to everyone they touch.

9   joeyjojojunior   883/888 = 99% civil   Jun 7, 10:09am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

I did a google search. And the problem is that you don't know the difference between H1B and H2B.

10   Quigley   887/893 = 99% civil   Jun 7, 12:25pm  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote    

H1B=fuck the tech workers hard!
H2B=fuck blue collar workers hard!

See the relation?

11   zzyzzx   983/983 = 100% civil   Jun 12, 8:57am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

http://theweek.com/articles/704293/hope-coal-country

Hope in coal country

In Gillette and nearby Campbell County, people were beginning to feel the comeback they voted for. Unemployment has dropped by more than a third since March 2016, from 8.9 percent to 5.1 percent. Coal companies are rehiring workers.

12   Rew   1138/1138 = 100% civil   Jun 12, 10:18am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

zzyzzx, it's an industry that's been in decline for decades. I understand the hope, and honestly, would love it if these people all got to keep their jobs. The problem is this is just not the direction of current energy technologies or markets.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2017/06/10/trumps-economic-scorecard-2-reasons-why-coal-jobs-wont-return/#34590e6f2997
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/06/06/50000-coal-jobs-where-the-number-comes-from/#61cabdfb2c25
http://www.kshb.com/news/national/infographics/jobs-in-coal-mining-only-very-slightly-up-since-trump-came-into-office

13   BayAreaObserver   1082/1083 = 99% civil   Jun 12, 5:32pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

14   bob2356   686/691 = 99% civil   Jun 12, 9:05pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

zzyzzx says

Hope in coal country

In Gillette and nearby Campbell County, people were beginning to feel the comeback they voted for. Unemployment has dropped by more than a third since March 2016, from 8.9 percent to 5.1 percent. Coal companies are rehiring workers.

OMG unemployment in a whole TWO counties in fucking rural wyoming has dropped. MAGA. What specifically did trump do to make this happen?

Oh wait, small inconvenient fact. Campbell county actually lost 3400 jobs last year. The unemployment rate dropped because so many unemployed people left Campbell county. https://county17.com/2017/06/01/unemployment-rate-continues-to-fall-in-campbell-county/ That's certainly one hell of a comeback. Go trump.

15   FortWayne   885/891 = 99% civil   Jun 12, 9:13pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Quigley says

H1B=fuck the tech workers hard!

H2B=fuck blue collar workers hard!

See the relation?

What we need is to replace this with H3B program... fuck the outsourcing favoring politicians hard...

16   Rew   1138/1138 = 100% civil   Jun 13, 9:37am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

FortWayne says

fuck the outsourcing favoring politicians hard...

Do you really mean business loves work visas?

17   MMR   383/383 = 100% civil   Jun 13, 11:51am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Rew says

Do you really mean business loves work visas?

True but Trump election victory had an adverse effect on h1-b being offered. Would have been business as usual if it was Clinton.

Agree on coal jobs 100%

18   bob2356   686/691 = 99% civil   Jun 13, 7:46pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

MMR says

True but Trump election victory had an adverse effect on h1-b being offered. Would have been business as usual if it was Clinton.

What adverse affect was there on h1b's? It still 85k. The only thing trump did was ask 4 of the departments to make comments and suggestions.

19   Strategist   2026/2031 = 99% civil   Jun 13, 8:04pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

bob2356 says

MMR says

True but Trump election victory had an adverse effect on h1-b being offered. Would have been business as usual if it was Clinton.

What adverse affect was there on h1b's? It still 85k.

Here is a secret to success:
Deport a million worthless criminals and illegals who don't work, and replace them with a million hard working, intelligent, highly skilled techies who will pay for our SS, and make our corporations competitive and profitable. Regardless of where they come from.
Am I right, or am I wrong?

20   BayAreaObserver   1082/1083 = 99% civil   Jun 17, 2:26am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

The new coal jobs the Trump team is touting might not actually exist

•The Trump administration has pointed to labor statistics to suggest the president's energy policy is already bearing fruit.
•EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt claimed the United States added 6,600 mining and coal jobs in May.
•Those are preliminary estimates, and the Bureau of Labor Statistics says they should not be used to say actual jobs were created.

Administration officials are citing preliminary estimates of job gains, not hard numbers, as their proof that coal employment is already growing. But the statisticians who come up with the estimates tell people they should not make that claim.

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics did report that the mining sector added an estimated 6,600 jobs in May. However, that estimated change from the prior month was not big enough for the department's statisticians to say with certainty whether the mining sector — which has about 650,000 jobs overall — actually created or lost any jobs.

To make such a conclusion about employment gains or losses, the bureau needed to see a gain or loss of 7,000 jobs in the mining sector in May.

Pruitt's claim is misleading in another way. By referring specifically to coal, he may have left some viewers with the impression that coal mining jobs rose by nearly 7,000 positions last month.

But the estimated rise in coal mining jobs was just 400, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported. That estimate was also too small for the bureau to say whether employment really rose. It needed to see a change of at least 700 positions to make that call.

To get to the 6,600 figure, you have to look more broadly at the mining sector, which includes coal mining, oil and gas extraction, metal ore mining and support activities for mining.

More: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/15/new-coal-jobs-the-trump-team-is-touting-might-not-actually-exist.html

21   zzyzzx   983/983 = 100% civil   Jun 26, 10:29am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

22   BayAreaObserver   1082/1083 = 99% civil   Jun 29, 5:11pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

$7.5 billion Kemper power plant suspends coal gasification. Owners of the plant made the decision to burn natural gas exclusively for now.

Southern Company and Mississippi Power announced Wednesday afternoon that they would suspend all coal gasification operations at a Kemper County plant and simply use natural gas instead. The decision comes after the Mississippi Public Service Commission (MPSC) recommended that the plant burn only natural gas, which is cheaper at the moment.

The Kemper County plant was supposed to be a cutting-edge demonstration of the power of “clean coal," and, despite running five years late and more than $4 billion over budget, Kemper was able to start testing its coal gasification operations late last year. The plant used a chemical process to break down lignite coal into synthesis gas, or “syngas,” which was then fed into a generator. The syngas burns cleaner than pulverized lignite coal does. In addition, emissions were caught by a carbon capture system and delivered to a nearby oil field to help with oil extraction. That, Southern and Mississippi Power said, would reduce the greenhouse emissions of burning lignite by up to 65 percent.

Last week, the MPSC indicated that it would refuse to allow Southern to raise rates to cover Kemper’s continued construction and maintenance for gasification.

More: https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/06/7-5-billion-kemper-power-plant-suspends-coal-gasification/

Mercifully the company I retired from was poised to get involved with one of these projects and finally threw in the towel before going too far after realizing what a 24 x 7 living hell it would be to try and get it operational and then reliable.

23   Strategist   2026/2031 = 99% civil   Jun 29, 5:37pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

BayAreaObserver says

$7.5 billion Kemper power plant suspends coal gasification. Owners of the plant made the decision to burn natural gas exclusively for now.

I am willing to bet with anyone......There will be less coal jobs at the end of Trump's first term, then there were at the beginning.

24   Dan8267   3636/3684 = 98% civil   Jun 29, 7:56pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Rew says

Those coal jobs aren't coming back ...

But Trump promised they would. Are you calling him a liar?

25   Dan8267   3636/3684 = 98% civil   Jun 29, 8:02pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Imagine the Wall covered with Solar Panels, from coast to coast, generating power through the most sunlit parts of the Continent.

Solar panels on a wall makes no sense. The wall does nothing to help collect the energy. It would be cheaper and easier to build and maintain a two dimensional field of solar panels than a one dimensional line of them. The wiring costs alone would exponentially increase, as would the diminishment of the direct current with distance.

If the right wants to build a wall, they can build a wall under two conditions.
1. The construction and maintenance is paid entirely by the right. This is enforced with a poll tax on voting or registering Republican.
2. A complete and utter end to all legal migrant work. The wall's not going to do shit. It's a symbol. Industry has to no longer be allowed to import workers, even "temporarily". The entire illegal immigration problem is caused by importing workers who then stay past their work visas, which themselves only expire to prevent the workers from gaining bargaining power because they are replaced with a new crop of migrant workers.

Have the republicans agree to these two simple conditions, and you can have your stupid symbolic wall / money hole. You will have to steal a lot of land using eminent domain though, and the wall will have to be forced onto states by the federal government, so that goes against everything republicans say they believe.

26   FortWayne   885/891 = 99% civil   Jun 29, 8:02pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

They made it harder to get approved, before it was easy

bob2356 says

MMR says

True but Trump election victory had an adverse effect on h1-b being offered. Would have been business as usual if it was Clinton.

What adverse affect was there on h1b's? It still 85k. The only thing trump did was ask 4 of the departments to make comments and suggestions.

27   elliemae   2/2 = 100% civil   Jun 29, 11:09pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Trump lied? was it about this one thing (coal), or was it about other stuff like Carrier Corp Jobs, building a wall, making 'merica great again... At least he isn't hanging fake Time Mags in his businesses... or holding a fundraiser for himself at places he owns so he gets paid for holding it, and then paid for the money raised....

OMG, we're all fucked. Seriously fucked.

28   TwoScoopsMcGee   1709/1709 = 100% civil   Jun 30, 5:42am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Oil over $80/gallon: We'll never see cheap oil again, desperately need alternatives
Oil under $50/gallon: We'll never see expensive oil again, no rush on alternatives...

29   Dan8267   3636/3684 = 98% civil   Jun 30, 7:48am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Oil over $80/gallon: We'll never see cheap oil again, desperately need alternatives

Oil under $50/gallon: We'll never see expensive oil again, no rush on alternatives...

The price of oil isn't the reason we need alternatives. The reason is that the true cost of oil far exceeds its price. If the cost of cleaning up the pollution were included in the price of oil, it would be at least several hundred dollars per gallon. Cost shifting by polluting is theft and should not be tolerated.

30   Strategist   2026/2031 = 99% civil   Jun 30, 8:00am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

The price of oil isn't the reason we need alternatives. The reason is that the true cost of oil far exceeds its price. If the cost of cleaning up the pollution were included in the price of oil, it would be at least several hundred dollars per gallon. Cost shifting by polluting is theft and should not be tolerated.

The costs are even more when you account for the health problems and early deaths that arise from all the pollution.

31   Dan8267   3636/3684 = 98% civil   Jun 30, 9:24am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Strategist says

The costs are even more when you account for the health problems and early deaths that arise from all the pollution.

This is a point I've made many times, but the pro-pollution people just ignore it because their short-term profit is all that matters to them. It's complete foolishness.

32   Strategist   2026/2031 = 99% civil   Jun 30, 4:55pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

33   errc   714/723 = 98% civil   Jun 30, 8:55pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Strategist says

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/30/60-million-strong-study-shows-clear-link-exposure-air-pollution-premature-death/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

60-Million-Strong Study Shows Clear Link Between Exposure To Air Pollution & Premature Death

Do you really need a study?

Think about this for a second, and you're older than me. You can't swim or catch fish to eat, from more rivers and lakes than those that you can. What the fuck

34   FortWayne   885/891 = 99% civil   Jun 30, 9:21pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Our government is giant worthless bureaucracy that needs a study for everything, they abandoned common sense long ago

errc says

Strategist says

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/30/60-million-strong-study-shows-clear-link-exposure-air-pollution-premature-death/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

60-Million-Strong Study Shows Clear Link Between Exposure To Air Pollution & Premature Death

Do you really need a study?

Think about this for a second, and you're older than me. You can't swim or catch fish to eat, from more rivers and lakes than those that you can. What the fuck

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