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If the BEST case they can bring against Bill Cosby ends in a hung jury, what does that mean for the other 99?

By iwog   Jun 15, 12:23pm   3 links   2,401 views   64 comments   watch (0)   quote      

In rape trials, a male defendant is always in trouble. The reason is that juries tend to ignore the evidence and presume guilt regardless of the existence of any actual evidence. If a woman says she was raped, that's generally good enough and if a man protests he's innocent, he's ignored and presumed to be lying. There are THOUSANDS of illegal convictions for rape on the books with nothing more than a woman pointing a finger and jurors are generally incapable of applying the presumption of innocence. If you doubt this, you can reference the innocence project where this gross injustice is laid bare: https://www.innocenceproject.org/cases/

Now we have a feeding frenzy where a bunch of disgusting pigs (not necessarily all) have decided to take advantage of the broken American jury system and charge Bill Cosby with rape many years after the fact, presumably because they are incapable of working and need to steal his money. There are no rape kits, there are no witnesses, and the women themselves decided that taking a rapist off the street was a low priority so they never reported it.

Also presumably the best case was submitted first and has now resulted in a deadlocked jury. Considering how easy it is to lie about rape and get a conviction in this country, how can most if not all of the remaining cases be valid?

Jurors in Bill Cosby's trial say they are deadlocked
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/15/us/bill-cosby-trial-verdict/index.html

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25   Strategist   2010/2015 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 11:38am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Strategist says

It's based on the news over the last few years. The same news everyone has.


Same news, different opinions.

And around the mulberry bush we go! It's like talking to a computer where you have to ask exactly the right question.

What in the news do you base your opinion on? You don't think it's odd that a 100 women were raped and then never reported it until there was a feeding frenzy that would also include large payouts?

he he he. Iwog, this is your MO. Ask questions that require lots of details. Cherry pick the details. Destroy the opponent.

26   Straw Man   712/717 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 11:41am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

The jurors holding out for a guilty verdict need to be fixed with electroshock therapy.

Have you been bitten by Dan?

27   Strategist   2010/2015 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 11:44am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

This is Strategist's fundamental character flaw and his Achilles's heel. He forms rigid opinions based on superficial, incomplete, and often downright wrong information. Once he forms such an opinion, no evidence to the contrary will sway him. This is exactly why Strategist would be the absolute worse person to serve on any jury.

In the eyes of the law Cosby is innocent until proven guilty. In my eyes he is as guilty as hell. It's called an "Opinion"
Why you women haters have a problem with that is perplexing.

28   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 11:45am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Strategist says

he he he. Iwog, this is your MO. Ask questions that require lots of details. Cherry pick the details. Destroy the opponent.

Imagine, asking questions in a conversation!!!! How about just one single detail? Here's your MO:

Strategist: "I believe X"
Iwog: "Why?"
Strategist: "See, this is your MO! How dare you ask me why I believe something! I'm a special snowflake, I don't NEED reasons!"

29   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 11:46am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Strategist says

In the eyes of the law Cosby is innocent until proven guilty. In my eyes he is as guilty as hell. It's called an "Opinion"

Right. A special snowflake opinion because..............well as you said, because nothing. You don't know why you believe it.

Strategist says

Why you women haters have a problem with that is perplexing.

I'm not a woman hater. Not only am I married but I'm an associate producer on a movie directed and produced by a woman.

30   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 12:38pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Strategist says

In the eyes of the law Cosby is innocent until proven guilty. In my eyes he is as guilty as hell. It's called an "Opinion"

Actually, the law is that the verdict of the jury, whether right or wrong, whether based on evidence or pure bias, determines legal guilt even if an innocent person is found guilty. So, yes, opinions matter as they effect this verdict.

However, what you are calling "your opinion" is not an opinion at all. An opinion is a subjective judgement, for example, vanilla ice cream tastes better than chocolate. Opinions are neither right nor wrong. Whether or not Cosby raped a woman is a matter of fact, not opinion. Either he did or he did not, and your subjective judgements have no effect on that reality. It is as wrong to say "in my opinion, Cosby is guilty" as it is to say "in my opinion, a god exists" or "in my opinion, you have cancer". Yes, even doctors are wrong when they say such things, but they are doing so to cover their asses from civil suits as juries don't generally convict people for giving "opinions".

When you say that you believe Cosby is guilty, you are making a conjecture, not an opinion. Your conjecture is either right or wrong, and if you were on the jury, that conjecture would be damn important, so it sure as hell should be based on objective, verifiable evidence rather than your opinions or gut feelings.

You are not on the jury, but you are part of the public opinion jury, and so you condemnation also carries some weight. Thus Iwogs challenge for you to justify your conjecture is very reasonable. You have not answered his challenge. To do so, you need to cite specific evidence to justify the conjecture.

31   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 12:42pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Strategist says

Why you women haters have a problem with that is perplexing.

Not wanting innocent men wrongly convicted of rape is "hating women"? You sound like a social justice warrior.

Again, I don't know if Cosby is guilty or not. I haven't followed the trial as I have real stuff to do in life. However, I am for the principle of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and reasonable doubt is defined as "Would you accept serving the sentence given to the defendant if you voted guilty and were later proved wrong?". Unless the answer to this question is yes, then by definition, you have reasonable doubt. Now perhaps that bar is higher the more severe the sentencing is, but I'm OK with that as it makes perfect sense. You have to be a lot more sure of a capital crime than you do about jaywalking.

32   Straw Man   712/717 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 12:43pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

In the eyes of the law Cosby is innocent until proven guilty. In my eyes he is as guilty as hell. It's called an "Opinion"

Actually, the law is that the verdict of the jury, whether right or wrong, whether based on evidence or pure bias, determines legal guilt even if an innocent person is found guilty. So, yes, opinions matter as they effect this verdict.

However, what I am calling "my opinion" is not an opinion at all. An opinion is a subjective judgement, for example, vanilla ice cream tastes better than chocolate. Opinions are neither right nor wrong. Whether or not Zimmerman murdered Trayvon is a matter of fact, not opinion. Either he did or he did not, and my subjective judgements have no effect on that reality. It is as wrong to say "in my opinion, Zimmerman is guilty" as it is to say "in my opinion, a god exists" or "in my opinion, you have cancer". Yes, even doctors are wrong when they say such things, but they are doing so to cover their asses from civil suits as juries don't generally convict people for giving "opinions".

When I say that I believe Zimmerman is guilty, I am making a conjecture, not an opinion. My conjecture is either right or wrong, and if I were on the jury, that conjecture would be damn important, so it sure as hell should be based on objective, verifiable evidence rather than my opinions or gut feelings.

I am not on the jury, but I am a part of the public opinion jury, and so my condemnation also carries some weight. Thus challenge for me to justify my conjecture is very reasonable. I have not answered his challenge. To do so, I need to cite specific evidence to justify the conjecture.

Like.

33   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 12:50pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Straw Man says

Fascinating read.

Falsely quoting someone is a sign of a weak position.

As for Zimmerman, I am sure beyond a reasonable doubt that he shot Martin to death. There's plenty of evidence.
1. Martin's dead body.
2. The bullet in Martin's dead body.
3. The forensic evidence proving the bullet was shot from Zimmerman's gun.
4. Zimmerman's fingerprints on the Zimmerman's gun.
5. Zimmerman stating that he shot Martin.
6. The forensic evidence showing that Martin died from the shot and not from anything else like being struck by lighting.

There's also plenty of evidence that Martin did not consent to being killed.
1. Martin tried to avoid Zimmerman.
2. Martin's own words on the phone call to his girlfriend about being stalked by someone.
3. Martin fleeing from Zimmerman.
4. And when that failed, Martin fighting for his life.

So I'm pretty damn sure that Zimmerman murdered Martin based on the above evidence. I'd have no problem convicting him in a jury.

The only people who wanted Zimmerman to face no consequences are those who like the idea of killing black boys and men. The pro-Zimmerman side is completely based on racism. If the skin tones were reversed, I'd still convict Zimmerman for the exact same reasons.

34   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 12:55pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

By the way, reasonable doubt does not mean that you never convict people of crimes. It means you base those convictions on rational, verifiable evidence rather than what your animal instinct tells you.

35   Straw Man   712/717 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 12:58pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

Falsely quoting someone is a sign of a weak position.

Butthurt detected.

36   jvolstad   195/195 = 100% civil   Jun 16, 1:19pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

BlueSardine says

god damn...he sure ain't lying about that being blind shit...

What's wrong with that chicks hair?

37   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 2:50pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Straw Man says

Butthurt detected.

So calling out a troll on his lie is your definition of butthurt? Sounds to me like I caused you butthurt by showing how stupid your post was and easily dismantling it.

Also, by the way, everything I stated about the Cosby case does also apply to the Zimmerman case. I did not make a determinate of guilt or innocence in the statement but simply stated that the decisions of juries should not be based on easily manipulated emotions but rather on evidence and what is known about the case. The fact that you object to this reflects on your character.

However, the evidence against Zimmerman was absolutely conclusive and completely different from the evidence against Cosby. From the article in the original post

Prosecutors called 12 witnesses over a week of testimony, including Constand, but presented almost no forensic evidence.

So implying that the Cosby case and the Zimmerman case are almost identical and that the guilt of one implies the guilt of the other is outright bullshit.

#lawyered

38   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 2:55pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

jvolstad says

What's wrong with that chicks hair?

No, actually it's...

39   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 2:55pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

jvolstad says

What's wrong with that chicks hair?

No, actually it's...

40   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 2:56pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

jvolstad says

What's wrong with that chicks hair?

No, actually it's...

41   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 2:59pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Okay I vote for returning the delete feature. I don't care if people appear to be responding to air.

42   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 3:01pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

iwog says

Okay I vote for returning the delete feature.

Yeah, a PatNet bug, probably a database timeout, caused me to double post. I got the "no such post" error and then reposted after reloading the page and the result was a double post. Can't delete the second one.

43   Straw Man   712/717 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 3:04pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

iwog says

Okay I vote for returning the delete feature.

Yeah, a PatNet bug, probably a database timeout, caused me to double post. I got the "no such post" error and then reposted after reloading the page and the result was a double post. Can't delete the second one.

I'll help you to make it disappear.

44   Straw Man   712/717 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 3:05pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Straw Man says

Dan8267 says

iwog says

Okay I vote for returning the delete feature.

Yeah, a PatNet bug, probably a database timeout, caused me to double post. I got the "no such post" error and then reposted after reloading the page and the result was a double post. Can't delete the second one.

I'll help you to make it disappear.

Done. You're welcome.

45   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 3:06pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Straw Man says

Done. You're welcome.

That's uncool man.

46   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 3:14pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Straw Man says

I'll help you to make it disappear.

What are you going to do? Ask it out on a date?

47   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 3:15pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

iwog says

Straw Man says

Done. You're welcome.

That's uncool man.

What a surprise. Another ad hom abuse by a troll.

Unless there's a price for such abuse, it will continue. Looks like the ad hom experiment has failed.

48   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 3:15pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

I think you'll find you were ad hominemed for humor.

49   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 16, 3:21pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

iwog says

I think you'll find you were ad hominemed for humor.

That's almost always the case.

50   FortWayne   867/873 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 4:06pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

You just did what he said you do

iwog says

Strategist says

he he he. Iwog, this is your MO. Ask questions that require lots of details. Cherry pick the details. Destroy the opponent.

Imagine, asking questions in a conversation!!!! How about just one single detail? Here's your MO:

Strategist: "I believe X"

Iwog: "Why?"

Strategist: "See, this is your MO! How dare you ask me why I believe something! I'm a special snowflake, I don't NEED reasons!"

51   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 16, 5:43pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

FortWayne says

You just did what he said you do

Example?

52   BayAreaObserver   1054/1055 = 99% civil   Jun 17, 7:31am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Judge in Bill Cosby sex assault trial declares mistrial due to deadlocked jury.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-cosby-idUSKBN1980B9

53   Quigley   883/889 = 99% civil   Jun 17, 8:20am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Let's see if the prosecution wants to waste more money and time on another trial.
They stacked the jury with white people and still couldn't get a conviction. It doesn't look good for anything other than a repeat. But the butthurt and politics are strong with this case. They'll probably retry it.

54   just any guy   256/256 = 100% civil   Jun 17, 8:41am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Whether he's guilty or not, these women waited too long to come after him. It's not like they were under age and had fear of prosecuting an adult, they were adults themselves. Unless you have cold, hard evidence, it's too late.

55   just any guy   256/256 = 100% civil   Jun 17, 11:29am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

To brush up on my knowledge of hung juries, I watched this movie:

56   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 17, 12:59pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

This is so fucked up that I'm embarrassed to be an American. He's essentially advocating trial by lynch mob.

BELLONI They can't NOT retry him, I don't think. There would be considerable outrage. I'm actually more surprised than you at the mistrial. Even though jurors are instructed to consider only the evidence presented, they must have been aware of the volume of accusations against Cosby. They were everywhere.

57   komputodo   220/221 = 99% civil   Jun 17, 1:12pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

This is so fucked up that I'm embarrassed to be an American.

This is what it finally took to be embarrassed?

58   Blurtman   561/561 = 100% civil   Jun 17, 1:17pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

"Lovely Jello jigglers," smirked the defendant.

59   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 17, 1:18pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

komputodo says

This is what it finally took to be embarrassed?

I should have added "again".

60   Quigley   883/889 = 99% civil   Jun 17, 1:53pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

You does what you does to get your pudding!

61   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 17, 4:03pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

iwog says

This is so fucked up that I'm embarrassed to be an American. He's essentially advocating trial by lynch mob.

A black man lynched after being falsely accused of raping a white woman? Could that even happen in America?

62   BlueSardine   833/850 = 98% civil   Jun 17, 4:24pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

That depends on when you get back from Vladivostok. ..
Dan8267 says

A black man lynched after being falsely accused of raping a white woman? Could that even happen in America?

63   BlueSardine   833/850 = 98% civil   Jun 17, 4:28pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

You should have called it for Trump too...
iwog says

I should have added "again".

64   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 17, 4:36pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

BlueSardine says

That depends on when you get back from Vladivostok.

You're thinking of Trump.

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