patrick.net

 
  forgot password?   register

#housing #investing #politics more»
750,909 comments in 77,178 posts by 11,010 registered users, 2 online now: APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE, HEY YOU

new post

Does anyone know what this is??

By iwog   Jun 21, 2:28pm   2 links   1,743 views   56 comments   watch (0)   quote      

It's marked on the back: könig gewinnspiel 1860 which I assume is the date but WTF is the bird thingy?

« First     « Previous     Comments 17-56 of 56     Last »

17   zzyzzx   983/983 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 8:39am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Please post a much bigger pic of what (the two items) is stamped on the left side. That stuff looks a lot like a makers mark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_hallmarks

I.E. - If you see a match here if it's made in Hamburg:
http://www.925-1000.com/Fger_hamburg_01.html

As a reference:
http://www.925-1000.com/silverplate__menu.html

18   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 22, 10:44am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

19   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 22, 10:47am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Maybe you're on the right track on this being from Europe. I always just assumed it was an American silversmith because everything else I've got is old American coin silver.

It's solid silver. Not silverplate.

20   zzyzzx   983/983 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 11:12am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

I always just assumed it was an American silversmith

I guess it could be, but I do think figuring out exactly what the name is stamped there is a good starting point. I can't be 100% sure from the picture exactly what it says.

21   Rew   1136/1136 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 3:43pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

You can see a lot of things in common with a spoon like this.

The 12 number is strong indicator toward Germany. The year and that number are dead on right. Further details likely need someone who has "better information" ... aka ... books of hallmarks.

22   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 22, 3:58pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

You think that's a 12 instead of a 71?

23   Rew   1136/1136 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 4:36pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Yes. I believe the 12 denotes the purity of silver.

"Assay marks for silver purity found on German and Polish silver of the 18th & 19th centuries.
The Loth system divided silver into 16 parts. 16/16 for pure silver 15=.937 14=.875 13=.812 12=.750"

Your date is 1860. It's German. .750 Silver.

I just don't know if that is a family crest, a state crest, or what the King's Game/Match/Lottery refers to.

Edit: Ok, it could be Polish too I suppose. I'm no expert, but everything I see screams German to me. ;)

24   steverbeaver   14/14 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 4:39pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

I think the symbol may indicate the city of origin. That seems to be a practice for old silversmiths / metal crafters.

25   Rew   1136/1136 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 4:41pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

steverbeaver says

I think the symbol may indicate the city of origin. That seems to be a practice for old silversmiths / metal crafters.

That, or a family crest. Yes.

Edit: Specifically, N/E German & Poland areas is strong indicator for that symbology and time.

26   Rew   1136/1136 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 5:04pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog I think that also just may say: "könig's gewinn" as well ... "King's Win"

27   justme   275/275 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 5:58pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

I though it might be useful to enumerate all the meanings of Gewinnspiel:

http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Gewinnspiel.html

Gewinnspiel {n}
contest
raffle
sweepstake
competition
lottery
prize game

The other question is the meaning of König (eng. King). I'm leaning toward the brand name or advertising/promotional theory. If it was supposed to stand for Royal or King's, the adjective Königlich would have been used.

But IF it were a price in a Royal lottery, perhaps a scheme to raise money to pay for some war :).

28   justme   275/275 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 6:13pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

The bigger question: Is @iwog melting down or otherwise selling his silverware? What up with silver prices? Someone told me once that silver flatware has a metal value that is only 25% of the retail price, which would make it one of the worst investments ever. Not sure how correct the 25% number is.

29   Dan8267   3631/3679 = 98% civil   Jun 22, 6:18pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Rew says

Ok, it could be Polish too I suppose. I'm no expert, but everything I see screams German to me. ;)

You can test to see if it's German. Just place it next to some other spoons and see if it tries to annex them.

30   Booger   624/624 = 100% civil   Jun 22, 6:21pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

I'm agreeing with Rew on the 12, as well as its meaning. Look at it carefully.

If that piece of paper is 8.5 X 11, that's a pretty big spoon. Makes me wonder if the King's Game was an eating competition.

31   BlueSardine   833/850 = 98% civil   Jun 22, 6:46pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

30 posts on a little shit spoon.
Wheres the politics in it?

32   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 22, 7:05pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

justme says

The bigger question: Is @iwog melting down or otherwise selling his silverware? What up with silver prices? Someone told me once that silver flatware has a metal value that is only 25% of the retail price, which would make it one of the worst investments ever. Not sure how correct the 25% number is.

It's a side business. I'm a pro-am on old American silver but I don't know jack about foreign stuff.

http://stores.ebay.com/paulsstash/

33   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 22, 7:08pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Rew says

iwog I think that also just may say: "könig's gewinn" as well ... "King's Win"

There's a dot next to the last 'N' that I took to mean gewinnspiel was abbreviated. Like the person etching the inscription ran out of room which happens a lot on old silver.

34   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 22, 7:09pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

35   zzyzzx   983/983 = 100% civil   Jun 23, 7:36am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

justme says

The bigger question: Is @iwog melting down or otherwise selling his silverware?

Iwog hasn't posted a weight yet, so we don't know the value of the silver in it yet. Presumably the item is worth at least that much. Personally, I'd hate to see something in that good condition melted down.

36   Tenpoundbass   1414/1416 = 99% civil   Jun 23, 8:45am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Ah yes it was a Civil war era coke whore spoon. - Antique Roadshow

37   zzyzzx   983/983 = 100% civil   Jun 23, 10:24am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

There's a dot next to the last 'N' that I took to mean gewinnspiel was abbreviated.

Probably true, but then isn't there another dot after 1860?

38   CBOEtrader   973/974 = 99% civil   Jun 23, 12:15pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

It's a spoon from 1860 and I'm wondering if it has any value because of the bird.

I have to sell this thing.

It translates to kings tournament which is not very specific in german. It can at times loosely translate to champions tournament, similar to la liga premier in Spanish so it doesn't specify which or what type of competition this is commemorating.

39   CBOEtrader   973/974 = 99% civil   Jun 23, 12:17pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Yeah post the entire pic of the German please. This doesn't say tournament, it says gewinn "win".

40   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 23, 1:49pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

41   junkmail   34/34 = 100% civil   Jun 23, 2:31pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Found a victorian spoon (very similar) $13 to $25?

42   junkmail   34/34 = 100% civil   Jun 23, 2:32pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

43   junkmail   34/34 = 100% civil   Jun 23, 2:48pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Also the bird looks like an Ibis... so it could be a sea captains set of silverware. I found that dotted style of engraving on just such a set.

44   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 23, 4:51pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

junkmail says

Found a victorian spoon (very similar) $13 to $25?

Mine is solid silver, not silverplate.

Also it's a fiddleback spoon but that doesn't help much. 95% of all silver produced in the pre-sterling era was the fiddleback design. I've sold thousands of them. Another pile is getting sold tomorrow:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-Antique-Coin-Silver-Serving-Spoons-Assorted-makers-1820-1860-LARGE-/263036531150

45   CBOEtrader   973/974 = 99% civil   Jun 23, 7:38pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Wilhelm King of Prussia in 1860

46   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 23, 7:53pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Okay I think Captian's spoon from Prussia is exactly right on this one so thanks for the help so far.

All I need to do is figure out the silversmith mark and I'll have my millions in hand.

47   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 23, 7:56pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

königsburg is a port city and also issued a lot of silver with "12" fineness.

48   BayAreaObserver   1054/1055 = 99% civil   Jun 24, 4:28am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

All I need to do is figure out the silversmith mark and I'll have my millions in hand.

Of course you will be giving everyone who commented on this thread to help you do your research a modest financial token of your appreciation or make a donation to one of their favorite charities.

Can you make mine to ARF in Walnut Creek please ? A $25 or $50 donation would be greatly appreciated.

49   zzyzzx   983/983 = 100% civil   Jun 26, 11:00am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Did you ever figure out the silversmith's mark?
Presumably you have posted it elsewhere as well and I was just wondering.

50   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jun 26, 11:08am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

zzyzzx says

Did you ever figure out the silversmith's mark?

Presumably you have posted it elsewhere as well and I was just wondering.

Nope. I have no idea. It's badly degraded so I'm not even sure what the initials are. My best guess is FA?

51   zzyzzx   983/983 = 100% civil   Jun 26, 11:12am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Nope. I have no idea. It's badly degraded so I'm not even sure what the initials are

Please post a bigger picture of just the makers mark. I bet even with the small number of people here a collective guess might be right. I see at least a few possibilities.

There is a subreddit just for this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hallmarks/
But the number of subscribers there is pretty low.

52   zzyzzx   983/983 = 100% civil   Jun 27, 7:06am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

OK, based on this picture some potential guesses at the makers mark:
T Ault
J Ault
F Ault

I'm not sure if the A is really an A or maybe a Jl, or something???

53   BayAreaObserver   1054/1055 = 99% civil   Jul 10, 4:47pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

@Iwog - Have you figured this out yet?

54   iwog   2214/2216 = 99% civil   Jul 10, 4:52pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Nope, I really need the maker identified if I want to get more than $20

55   BayAreaObserver   1054/1055 = 99% civil   Jul 10, 4:54pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Got it - I would have thought somewhere in the greater Bay Area there would be someone with knowledge on that. Thanks for the update.

56   curious2   1127/1127 = 100% civil   Jul 10, 5:45pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

iwog, the brewery has an online contact page. If you give them a link to the photo, they might identify the spoon, and they may offer to buy it. BTW, König Pilsener is "the king of beers" in its jurisdiction.

Did you check with the brewery?

Also, a sailing club was founded there in 1855, so it might be a prize from a regatta. You might try the local sailing club, I think it joined with a Hamburg club when Konigsberg became Kaliningrad.

« First     « Previous     Comments 17-56 of 56     Last »

users   about   suggestions   contact  
topics   random post   best comments   comment jail  
patrick's 40 proposals  
10 reasons it's a terrible time to buy  
8 groups who lie about the housing market  
37 bogus arguments about housing  
get a free bumper sticker:

top   bottom   home