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marcus's comments

1   marcus   Aug 15, 11:24pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

There is a kind of hate and relative sort of empathy for the white nationalists on the right that's difficult to understand.

Don't get me wrong. I think the size of the number of true wight nationalists, that dream of separate "nations" within the U.S. defined racially, is a group that is even much smaller than the number of radical SJWs on the left (i.e. the kind that are authoritarian about it, and don't even want to allow free speech to discuss some issues).

But the political right is just downright bizarre. For example someone like FWM, or on the extreme, TPB, and even patrick, over react to the left and seem to see the world through a prism. I guess that's why the Trump phenomenon exists.

As just a simple example I and I think most moderates (what alt right people call far left) folks DO NOT in fact see the white supremacists as being a larger group than they are - IT'S TINY - where as right wingers tend to exaggerate the proportion of democrats that are radical SJWs. The truth is that a huge swath of the left at this point understand the danger that identity politics is to the country - distracting us and dividing us from addressing more important issues.

To me it feels more than ever that Americans are being played. You've got Guns, Gays and God on the right (especially in the bible belt) , and identity politics (BLM,. trans gender rights ) on the left. There's even a sort of second tier or derivative level where some on the left, but far more on the right are critical of political correctness in a way that's irrational and over stating the problem in a way that reflects underlying racism and sexism.

Fucking White Male says

Make it look like there's a huge racial boogeyman.

I don't think there's a huge racial boogeyman. But there is still is a lot of shit for us to work through. Suspending for a minute who's right and who's wrong, why the hell was there such strong disagreement about Trayvon Martin's killing ? We should have been much closer to agreement about that. Why can't we just put all the drama about BLM (from either side) aside and agree on improving the way police are trained and have them wear body camaras, and decrease the amount of unnecessary killing done by police ?

Denying that there are still issues there is in and of itself an issue.

2   marcus   Aug 13, 5:25pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Food for thought.

Feynman: http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/49/2/Religion.htm

Jordan Peterson:

"People must unite under the banner of the individual."

3   marcus   Aug 13, 3:59pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

jazz_music says

Propaganda notwithstanding, people have every GOOD reason for outrage. Our social plight is so conspicuous that the world is looking at us all to see what we will do to claw back our lives and the powerful are doing everything they can to make any possible civil actions, laughable, brutally punishable and any meaningful changes impossible.

True but it obviously has nothing to do with oppression for being white. Although I understand sour grapes about seemingly better opportunities at times going to minority individuals. Addressing that in some ways makes sense, but not obsessing about it, or worse politicizing it - in a way that works up the ire of the worst kind of right wingers. We all should understand why it happens.

4   marcus   Aug 13, 3:37pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

The only reason the white supremacists want the statue is to say that those were the good old times.

Maybe true. But what about all the other people that want the statue for all kinds of other reasons. That's certainly not the reason I would have voted to keep the statue if I lived there. It's history.

Maybe if I lived there, and was a decider on the city council I could be convinced that keeping the statue is divisive, but at present it would seem that removing it is more divisive because of all the terrified and ignorant little white supremacists that are freaking out over the country becoming more diverse. (what they refer to as white genocide)

That's why dealing with the question of whether to keep the statues or not would be better dealt with a couple or three generations later, after white folk know and are comfortable with their place as just another demographic group and not as a group that's terrified of losing its dominance. Surprisingly, I think that if the decision was put off a few generations, that a vast majority of people would at that time vote to keep the statue, but certainly not as some sort of vindication that slavery was right or that the confederacy should have won.

5   marcus   Aug 13, 1:29pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

not once did he name the enemy: Radical Islamic Terror.

He had his reasons, much like previous leaders, back before America started losing it's greatness.

"There has not been a moment in my 7.5 years as president where we have not able to pursue a strategy because we didn't use the label ‘radical Islam.’ Not once has an adviser of mine said, ‘Man, if we use that phrase, we are going to turn this whole thing around,’ not once."Obama said June 14. "So, there is no magic to the phrase ‘radical Islam.’ It is a political talking point. It is not a strategy."

Using the term, Obama argued, would actually bolster into the narrative ISIS and al-Qaeda are pitching: a war between Islam and the West led by them.

"If we fall into the trap of painting all Muslims as a broad brush, and imply that we are at war with the entire religion, then we are doing the terrorists' work for them," he said.

This echoes what Obama has previously said about ISIS, and isn’t all that different from former President George W. Bush’s language following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and at the onset of the war in Afghanistan.

"They try to portray themselves as religious leaders — holy warriors in defense of Islam," Obama said a 2015 summit on violent extremism. "We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam."

"This great nation of many religions understands, our war is not against Islam, or against faith practiced by the Muslim people. Our war is a war against evil," Bush said in January 2002.

This is the way it needs to be framed, even if there is some degree of truth to underlying flaws in Islam.

Using the phrase "white supremacy" is different. White supremacy needs to be condemned. Will Trump finally condemn it? I seriously doubt it. They make up too big a chunk of the 35% of the population that approves of the job he's doing. SAD.

6   marcus   Aug 13, 1:03pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Patrick says

They were armed with sticks and not for self-defense.

How do you know it wasn't for self defense ? Many of the white supremacists were in full military gear, including weapons. It certainly turned out the counter protesters needed to defend themselves. The white supremacists were the ones to break through the barriers harassing the counter protesters, while police just watched (for a while). Evidently the counter protesters were a much smaller group.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/12/charlottesville-far-right-crowd-with-torches-encircles-counter-protest-group

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/12/meet-man-middle-unite-right-rally-charlottesville/562571001/

I know it's post truth and everything. But maybe we should find facts before making assumptions.

7   marcus   Aug 13, 12:34pm     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

I'm pretty sure the neo-Nazis and KKK members at this rally are racist.

I was challenging your statement about General Lee, but also your black and white generalized view about those who romanticize the history of the confederacy.

I actually think it's a mistake to be taking down those statues in the south. In time it might happen on it's own, but doing it the moment they can get 51% of the town to vote for it - is an unfortunately divisive move (that plays in to Trumpism). Maybe 50 years later 70% would be for keeping the statues (not because they think slavery was cool) or maybe it would be a super majority wanting to do away with them then.

And of course some of those that are opposed to removing the statues are racist assholes. But that doesn't mean that the statues represent racist assholes.

If I lived there, I would have voted to keep the statue - and I think you know I don't think slavery was good and I'm not a white supremacist.

8   marcus   Aug 13, 12:18pm     ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

history

The confederacy lost. They were not permitted to secede. Huge numbers died on both sides. Many southerners and also some people that don't live in the south have great great grandparents that died fighting for the confederacy. It's absurd to label all of them traitors, or murderers just because they lost (or even if you want to say they were wrong (to secede, that is - not about slavery - obviously even if the Confederacy won its right to be a separate country - slavery would have ended long ago)).

Robert E. Lee was a general and war hero on the side that lost. The south lost their effort to secede and become a separate country. Determining for themselves if and when and how slavery ended may have been the biggest reason for wanting to secede, but the reason people were fighting for the confederacy was for their right to secede and have their own country. You have to know that there were a lot of confederate soldiers and leaders that were at least ambivalent about slavery, if not totally opposed to it.

9   marcus   Aug 13, 11:58am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Imagine if Trump said "Now, keep in mind, not all Nazis are like this, Nazism is an ideology of peace. This was an errant, rogue Nazis."

Obama made statements to that effect regularly about Islam.

It's true. Being a Trump supporter actually makes a person more stupid.

Are you that far gone that you see equivalence there ?

10   marcus   Aug 13, 11:50am     ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Dan8267 says

Only white supremacists think that Robert Lee, the traitor who murdered countless Americans, is a hero

Give me a break. Slavery was evil, but it existed at the time, and it wasn't that easy to see how freeing the slaves could work out. As we know, it was not in fact an easy path. Washington, Jefferson and countless other revered Americans had owned and even traded in slaves.

Lee was a military officer that sided with his home state and with his new President after the south seceded.

I think it's a mistake to overly judge those southerners who have nostalgic or romanticized feelings about the confederacy. Believe it or not, such people are not always racists or haters of the U.S. government.

11   marcus   Aug 13, 7:03am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Evidently the were separate areas with barriers for the different protest groups. It was the united white supremacist folks that broke down the barriers and started the scuffles.

By the way, I wonder if it will ever become a story and left wing talking point that Trump refuses to say the words: "white supremacists."

12   marcus   Aug 13, 6:43am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Many conservatives have the common sense to denounce white supremacy. David Duke on the other hand (to Trump):

“I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists,” responded Duke, who was in Charlottesville.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/12/charlottesville-protest-trump-condemns-violence-many-sides

Watching and listening to the video of Donald Trump's statement, that is his sincerity and his eloquence really makes me feel proud to be an American.. He's such a powerful communicator.

13   marcus   Aug 13, 6:38am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Patrick says

Either this driver is so stupid that he does not understand that he has immeasurably increased sympathy for anti-fa assholes, or it was a false flag operation simply intended to stir shit up. Ugh.

If only you could have argued some sense in to him about how we need to perpetuate the ignorant lie that "political violence in this country always comes from the left."

14   marcus   Aug 12, 1:24pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

landtof says

this is how you know trump's twitter usage is really effective

If Trump's twitter usage is really effective it begs the question(s):

How much of an international joke would the U.S. be, how low would Trumps approval ratings be, how much more (or less - it's hard to know what's better with you people) would he be lying, if he didn't tweet so much ?

15   marcus   Aug 10, 7:21pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Is this a repost from 10 years ago ? Or seven years ago ?

I guess the liberal authoritarians really clamped down on this to prevent the word from spreading. That is considering this bullshit didn't get any traction in the academic world after it came out back in 2010 or 2011.

Actually I remember when this came out, and it turned out that most of the people on the list were not scientists
(those few quotes may have been but that's a very small number), they were engineers or people with some limited science beckground, that were republicans or for other reasons sided with skeptical side of the argument.

Here we are seven years later with oceans warmer, with higher average temperatures and the arctic ice disappearing faster than many models predicted. If we wait for 100% proof and total scientific agreement and total understanding of the role of CO2's role in global warming with 100% perfectly accurate models it might be too late.

This post is appropriate for influencing opinions in the post truth, "whatever you want to be true - and whatever you imagine to be true" Trumpian period we're in right now.

16   marcus   Aug 10, 1:51pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

I wonder how much hate rhetoric from Islamists gets censored and reported to law enforcement. I'm thinking that these days the need for that type of thing in Germany would be on the rise too.

I'm guessing nobody here has a problem with that - considering the Islamists may be planning on backing their hate with violence.

Yeah, but that's different, right ? Their hate is evil whereas hate directed against all immigrants (not just terrorists) is far more understandable, and must be tolerated as free speech. Becasue it's less likely (but not totally unlikely) to incite violence.

Where do we draw the line ? People that hate immigrants in general or Muslims in general aren't going to see a line. Or actually, I guess they see a line very clearly. It's the 'us versus them' line.

17   marcus   Aug 9, 7:49pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

errc says

Then why do they have such prolific suicide rates?

Suicide is the leading cause of death for young people!

You obviously don't get it. Just because Japanese don't marry and or have families any more, commit suicide a lot, and are on the cutting edge of 30 year old virginity and sex with dolls and robots doesn't mean that their homogeneous demographics aren't an incredible blessing leading them to be far more healthy socially than the whacked out Americans always bragging about their so called "melting pot" and diversity.

18   marcus   Aug 8, 1:05pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Tenpoundbass says

If you're in Higher education you're using a grading assessment algorithm created by me.

I call bullshit on this. If it's true, tell us in a nutshell, what were the requirements ? What does this algorithm do ?

Can you name an application that uses this algorithm.

19   marcus   Aug 5, 5:39pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

It's likely that if and when the U.S becomes an absolute dictatorship, fundamentalist numbers would go way up and the government would use religion in ways that it doesn't use it now.

And sure, having a large fundamentalist population probably makes us more vulnerable to a dictatorship just as having a lot of nationalistic and xenophobic tendencies in the population and emanating from a right wing media does. There are many ways to manipulate the masses.

We need a daddy figure to protect us from the evil Muslims and Mexicans. Amiright ?

20   marcus   Aug 5, 5:30pm     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

George Selim headed the now-defunct CVE program which tried to offer federal support and legal autonomy to Islamic political groups if they redirected Islamic immigrants and youths away from Islamic militancy and jihad.

OH, I see. That can't be good.

This is what's called, "find things that Obama did that you like - and replace the programs with your own version so you can take credit in speeches in 2019."

Sad.

Luckily, this good program was something republicans would like, so instead of just killing it (see environmental and climate change policy), the Trump team will just replace it. That is, I hope.

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