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756,019 comments in 77,813 posts by 11,069 registered users, 1 online now: YesYNot

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1   YesYNot   Aug 16, 5:57pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Rew says

So many have been doxxed already

Is it really doxxing when you show up for a rally like that in real life? It seems to me that people showing up for a rally like this should be ready to accept judgement for their actions.

2   YesYNot   Aug 16, 3:03pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

For those who argue that the statues should remain to teach history, those statues should be replaced by ones that accurately depict the horrors of slavery including children age 11 to 16 being routinely raped by slavers.

This would get an interesting reaction. Some people are very sensitive to any criticisms of their culture.

3   YesYNot   Aug 16, 2:33pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

If people like YesYNot are going to demand the removal of General Lee, then they should support the removal of public-funded displays of Sanger and Tecumseh,

I read in another thread that this Sanger statue that you asked me is in a museum? I'm perfectly consistent, b/c I said that the confederate statues should go to a museum, where they can be put in proper context. By the way, we can all see that you and your team has no problem with identity politics when it suits you. Sanger seems like a pretty disgusting piece of work. She did start a great organization (PP), though, which is her real legacy.

4   YesYNot   Aug 16, 2:20pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

YesYNot says

People are responsible for their own actions, even if they are reacting to someone else.

Maybe. But if you want to tamp down Radical Nutjobs of any stripe, what's the worst thing you can do to them, their last hold on normal society and daily human interaction?

Sometimes, it's ignore them. Often it's oppose them peacefully. But that is a matter of tactics, which is different from assigning blame. My biggest (not only) complaint with Antifa as I understand it is that their tactics are counterproductive. They figure that it is justified and best to fight fire with fire. They sound like Trump in that regard. But that tactic is often not effective.

5   YesYNot   Aug 16, 12:12pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Additionally, Communists and Anarchists committed many acts of violence in the Weimar Republic; that's why it was easy for Hitler to pull the Reichstag Fire, it was believable given the level of political violence.

I may be wrong as I don't know much about this. I was just responding to what I read from zzyzzx's link. I also don't really get the idea of blaming someone's actions on what that person is reacting to. One shouldn't blame Trump for Antifa and shouldn't blame Antifa for the alt-right idiots who marched in Charlottesville (Nazis and others). That would be like blaming the victim in an abusive relationship. People are responsible for their own actions, even if they are reacting to someone else.

6   YesYNot   Aug 16, 12:03pm     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

And this brings up the great philosophical debate regarding moral relativism. That's a big enough subject to warrant it's own thread.

I agree. At the moment, though, I'm at maximum bandwidth digesting current events..Dan8267 says

It is true that Jefferson wrote many good things. It is also true that he never remotely lived up to his ideas. And some failings are deal killers.

This is why we should have monuments to ideas rather than monuments to individuals.

I agree in that his use of slaves was completely contrary to what I think were his best ideas. The interior of his memorial in DC focuses on his words (his ideas), which I like. These days, Monticello focuses on the lives of slaves, writings, scientific and agricultural experiments, and his profligate romantic and impractical lifestyle (building a house on a hill, spending himself into debt, relying on slaves for his lifestyle, etc). As a living monument, it can change to reflect our current understanding of things.
Dan8267 says

However, all flags, including the U.S. flag, carry with them the entire history of the country they represent

I agree. It represents the country, which is imperfect. The important thing is to recognize the bad with the good. As you wrote: Dan8267 says

The best you can do is to acknowledge them, apologize for them, condemn them, and make sure they never happen again.

IMO, taking the statues down is recognizing a wrong and correcting what we can still correct today.

7   YesYNot   Aug 16, 11:44am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Yep, they wanted Trump to give them breaks and subsidies for manufacturing drugs in Ireland

Are you suggesting it is a coincidence that people left after Charlottesville or that they used this as an excuse to leave because they were mad that Trump didn't give them shit? Trump disgraced himself. Many people left on moral grounds or to distance themselves from the train wreck. Now Trump is disbanding them to save face before the rest of them bail.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

YesYNot, do you think Amazon is or is approaching a Monopoly?

Amazon is not a monopoly. Trump says it is, because he is mad that the Washington Post won a Pulitzer for exposing his fake philanthropy among other things. Trump is just using the Presidential bully pulpit to beat up on people that don't bow down to him. Trump's claim that Amazon doesn't pay 'internet taxes' was as clear as the rest of the muddy tweets he makes. But the idea of Trump criticizing other people for not paying their 'fair share' of taxes is too ironic for comment.

8   YesYNot   Aug 16, 11:00am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

So what you're saying is that because Washington and Jefferson were Founding Fathers who accomplished things considered very positive, it mitigates their Slavery.

I admit that, why can't you - the Yes or No answer, YesYNot, is No.

It doesn't mitigate the effects of his use of slavery. I differ from Dan in that I don't judge individuals like Jefferson as harshly as I would someone who wanted to have slaves today. There are lots of reasons for that, but it is not relevant to the difference between Jefferson and Lee. Slavery and the fight for it is not what Jefferson represents. Slavery was one negative aspect of his life. Slavery is not what the US and our flag represents. It's one negative aspect of our history. Slavery and the fight for it is what Robert Lee represents. If you accept that slavery is bad, but that there are many great things about our constitution and government, then you should be able to see the difference between memorials of Lee and Jefferson.
TwoScoopsMcGee says

One more question - do you support the removal of Margaret Sanger statues?

TwoScoopsMcGee says

since so many worship people like Assatta Shakur or Rasmeh Odeh, both of whom were anti-American, ultraleft terrorists - and recent actors, people whose deeds were in the current lifetime of many millions of Americans.

Most people don't know who those people are, and I fall into that most people category. I don't really care if they are hypocrites. What percentage of the population do you think worships them? What percentage is happy to remove some confederate statues?

9   YesYNot   Aug 16, 10:28am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

komputodo says

I made my move 26 years ago and never had any regrets

To where and why did you move?

10   YesYNot   Aug 16, 10:25am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Also, errc has been doing a splendid job pointing out the contradictions of the week kneed Trump felators around here.

11   YesYNot   Aug 16, 10:24am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

WorkInProgress says

errc is beyond help.

Most people are beyond your help. One has to understand more than others to help them.

12   YesYNot   Aug 16, 10:23am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Patrick says

Which is especially insulting given how much globalization has devastated the middle of the country, specifically the white part, which is literally dying:

1) Admit it. If the Black mortality rate was going up, you would be blaming it on them and claiming it was due to a failure in their culture or genes. If the white mortality goes up, time to start pointing fingers at others.

2) What is the absolute mortality rate of blacks and whites? Is the black mortality rate still higher than the white one?
a) Who is literally dying, again?
b) If the black mortality rate is higher, is that their fault? See point 1.

13   YesYNot   Aug 16, 10:19am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

14   YesYNot   Aug 16, 10:12am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

lostand confused says

It was taken down, because it was a revisionist statue erected in 1924 (60 years after the war) in an effort to keep the racist fuckers happy and continue to terrorize blacks.

I'd say that I was referring to the memorials in general rather than that particular one. The basis comes from what others have written and the correlation of monument building with historical events.

I cannot possibly know what was in the mind of the guy who commissioned that particular statue. But, if you that I cannot possibly know what was in general going on in this country in 1924, you must really be critical of the religious right who are pretty sure that some supernatural shit happened in year 0.

lostand confused says

and propose the removal based on your absolute certainty.

Plus, I didn't propose the removal of the Lee statues based on my certainty. I contrasted what Lee represents with what Jefferson and Washington represent. Those are two extremely different things.

15   YesYNot   Aug 16, 9:48am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

zzyzzx says

YesYNot says

Well, I don't know if the historical version of Antifa from Germany

I didn't say that I didn't know if they were from Germany. I said that I didn't know if they supported Stalin.
Here is the quote:
YesYNot says

Well, I don't know if the historical version of Antifa from Germany supported Stalin or not.

Did you misunderstand the sentence, or did you intentionally misinterpret it?

16   YesYNot   Aug 16, 9:16am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Baltimore removed a some statues last night. The alt-right is really helping to move things along in that direction.

17   YesYNot   Aug 16, 9:15am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

mell says

And then proceeded to support Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism

Well, I don't know if the historical version of Antifa from Germany supported Stalin or not. But you know who does? Trump's buddy Putin. Stalin is enjoying more support these days as Russians do a little historical revisionism and erect statues of Stalin.
The current Antifa is anti-capitalist, which I also disagree with strongly.

18   YesYNot   Aug 16, 9:10am     ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

lostand confused says

You state with absolute certainity about why the statue was erected, in order to justify why it can be removed now. That is sad and very telling of the absolute certainty of the left-very scary.

So, do you agree with the statement in general, but just think that I should express myself with less certainty? Do you think that any statement made without qualifiers implies 100% certainty of the author? I ask, because I never stated a certainty, yet you perceived on. If I take a gander at your posts, I don't see a lot of qualifiers. The 5th one down at the moment, actually has the word 'absolutely' twice. Where am I supposed to read into those comments to find your humility and sage wisdom?

19   YesYNot   Aug 16, 9:01am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

zzyzzx says

Antifa Flag Comes Directly From The German Communist Party In 1932

So sad. Antifa was an organization that opposed Hitler's party. They got violent to oppose the violent wing of the Nazi party. Hitler won over the minds of the people and that led to WWII and the Holocaust. That site then blames Antifa for Hitler. Brilliant! Today, people are repeating history. So cliche.

20   YesYNot   Aug 16, 8:48am     ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

bob2356 says

I can't wait for my obligation to be in the US is finished so I can mail in my passport and leave.

My wife is ready to pack bags and move overseas. I'm still hopeful that Trump will be chewed up and spit out by the system, and that our country will recover. The threads here over the past few days though, have concerned me though. Polls show that 25% of the country strongly supports Trump, so I assume that the sentiments expressed here represent much of that 25%.

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