Goran_K's comments

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  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 8:57am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

errc says
Huh? How is this a response to What i said?

You’re not doing a good job of unbiased moderation. You should mark his uncivil comment as such, just as you did mine

And answer the question

First off I didn't mark all of your comments uncivil or delete your comments in this thread.

Secondly, do you think you're being treated unfairly? You should have been banned for your racist comments. If we were "being fair", I'd delete a few perhaps off color comments but then I should go and institute a 24 hour ban on your account for your racist anger filled tirade that you posted 2-3 days ago.

Right now, Patrick has given us leeway to let discussions progress until they become back and forth personal attacks (which so far this conversation has yet to become).

So, please, answer the question, do you think you've been treated unfairly? I don't personally believe you have been, in fact I think you've been given incredible leeway given your past actions. Do you disagree?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 9:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

errc says
They are being restricted from growing Agricultural Hemp and Medicinal Cannabis, and processing it into products that are in high demand in this country. They’re being restricted from consuming Hemp micro greens for nutrition and wellness, and having their assets vandalized and seized, not to mention their community UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK FROM THEIR OWN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

Why do you feel the need to be disingenuous here, are you ignorant of these realities and facts?

Weed is already legal recreationally in California, and has been medically for many years, yet Oakland still continues to have an extremely high gun violence rate despite strict gun control. Not only that, weed dispensaries and hemp production are also legal as long as you follow the regulatory framework for creating a production facility. They are choosing to sell and produce OUTSIDE of that regulatory process.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 9:13am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (3)     quote      

WookieMan says
I don't have a dog in the fight @Patrick but @errc is right on these comments if we're going to take the rules as stated. I actually found Strat's post pretty funny on this thread, so I don't personally mind them, but we're on a slippery slop here. Can there be a humor element to it? Probably not. I don't interpret this as Strat "attacking" Dan or Jazz, and I think they would admit that. But when taking the comments at their face value, it could be considered an attack by an outsider that hasn't read this forum.

We're fully engulfed in the dark underbelly of moderation. I'm not sure what the other side looks like, but these comments are a perfect example of a gray area.

Patrick gave a clearer description of what he expected in moderating comments. It's not zero tolerance any longer. A few "off color" comments can go, but if it becomes back and forth attacks, they are followed by warnings, deletions, and then bans.

I'm not a mod here, so whoever handles #misc would be the judge in this case.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 9:23am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

errc says
What are you so afraid of?

Nothing. I've already stated numerous times it should be legalized nation wide but even then, there will be a regulatory framework around it.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 9:25am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

So I'm guessing the lack of a response means you haven't been treated unfairly?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 9:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

errc says
Are you drunk already , or just higher than usual? Are you sniffing glue?

Obviously I’m being treated unfairly.

You marked those posts as uncivil, and Patnet has a long history of allowing racist comments.

When Sniper posted “Bye Bye nigger boy!” As Obama left office, the post got more likes than dislikes

Alright, I've entertained your case long enough. You haven't made a real convincing case that you've been treated unfairly, and I'll leave your reasoning up for all to read and see and decide for themselves.

But after this point, keep your stuff civil, and no back and forth attacks. Thanks.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 9:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

errc says
Wouldn’t the definition of being treated unfairly, include marking my posts as uncivil and removing them, while allowing others to comment at and around me in an uncivil fashion?

No comments have been deleted or marked uncivil by myself today. You've gotten plenty of leeway.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 9:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

errc says

For what reason should nature’s flowers be regulated?
Thought you said you were a Libertarian? How can one claim to be a Libertarian while demanding that the State be so intrusive as to regulate which flowers people grow and consume in the privacy of their own homes? Are you drunk already?

How do you pay for the enforcement of a regulation on flower consumption and agricultural plant production?

There is literally zero chance that weed will be legalized nation wide WITHOUT a regulatory framework. I may not agree but the truth is that in order for it to happen the government will have its hands in it.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 9:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

errrc. this isn't the forum and thread to start "errc's grivances topics". If you have a problem with moderation, or other issues with uncivil, start a topic under the #patnet subtopic and tag Patrick.

You are derailing multiple topics now in various sub forums. Please start a new thread to discuss your grievances with the management, thanks.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 9:55am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

errc says
So if that’s your position, how do you intend to fund the enforcement of the regulations on plants and flowers.

You have to answer this

I don't intend to fund anything more than what is already taken from taxes I pay.

I don't know what the regulatory framework will look like. I imagine it will be similar to California but who knows.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 10:01am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote      

justme says
All that exists is arbitrary censorship by an omnipotent moderator and a gang of like-minded helper thugs that are more than willing to mark criticism of the moderator and his actions as "uncivil".

Like minded helper thugs is borderline uncivil but I'll allow it since you had a point in the middle of your personal attacks.

The truth is Iwog did leave after being asked to not post NSFW material, and even challenged me to state an opinion on #politics about how I would treat his NSFW postings. I even tried to compromise and say we could remove the front page thumbnail. He found that still unacceptable and left shortly after. So while that may not have been the only reason why he left, he did leave shortly after that exchange.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 10:06am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote      

justme says
Everyone should go back and read iwog's post.

I agree.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 10:12am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

errc says
Since when does have any need for being SFW?

Good question.

Start a thread under #misc or #patnet and tag Patrick. If Patrick decides NSFW is not important then that's what it will be. It would limit my time being able to hang out on PatNet though to off hours.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 10:20am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote      

errc says
If it’s a good question, why not simply answer it?

AFAIK, you were the one who decided the need for SFW after Iwog posted granny in her bra.

Maybe you should be focusing your energy on working while on company time, rather than attempting to censor opposing points of view

I decided it would be the case for #politics. But if Patrick thinks granny titties and Anthony Weiner's dick pick is fine site wide, then those will be the rules. I won't go into multiple threads making dozens of comments complaining about it.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 10:28am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote      

YesYNot says
He didn't abuse his moderating ability (sic). He posted a comment in the wrong category, so that he could avoid you as a moderator

Yes, he miscategorized a post to avoid moderation. Your ego and bias is preventing you from admitting that he basically attempted to circumvent the site's rules and moderation because of his personal opinion of a mod, and was rightfully called out for it and the thread was moved back into its proper category.

Regardless, I won't debate Iwog's action anymore since he decided to "leave". He's not here to defend his actions or explain them anymore.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 10:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

Guys, let's keep it on topic.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 10:52am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote      

YesYNot says
No it is not. I admitted that he was trying to circumvent the site's moderation - namely your moderation. In fact, if you go back to the original thread, you will see that I was the first person to call him out on it. I stated that he was not abusing his moderator power, which I think is what you meant when you wrote 'moderation ability'. Now, you are mis-characterizing what I wrote. Do you even see the difference?

Okay he didn't technically moderate anything beyond his subforum (since he couldn't anyway) but he was purposefully trying to create miscategorized topics within his own subforum so he could only moderate post. Small semantical difference. He was abusing the system to try and keep things under his control, and he was rightfully called out (thank you) and then from there it was a quick path to Iwog leaving once he knew he couldn't have his own kingdom within PatNet.

You and justme are leaving out those details because of your bias and are recanting what happened dishonestly.

Both of you are letting personal opinion get in the way of the fact that Iwog was the first (and only one) to abuse the new system of moderation.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 10:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote      

errc says
I’m of the opinion that it’s unreasonable to ask for the victims of his harassment to participate in a civil forum, so long as he’s subverting your ban.

How do you know Sniper is a formerly banned member?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 11:06am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

errc says

A better question is how do you not know that Sniper is the user Ironman who was banned by Patrick for constantly attacking posters here?

There were long periods of time where I wasn't a regular poster on PatNet.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 11:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says
So you don’t find it offensive when Sniper/Ironman posted “Bye Bye Nigger boy!!!” At The President, because racism doesn’t exist?

I never saw him post that. I'm sure Patrick deleted it if that did happen.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 11:16am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says
Your credibility is deteriorating.

Patrick definitely didn’t delete it. Hell, he may have been one of the Likes. Patrick also denies that racism exists lol

Show me the post.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 11:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

errc says
Find it yourself. It’s in the Trump inauguration thread

I don't believe the post exist and do not believe Patrick would leave such a post up. So why would I look for something that I know doesn't exist?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 11:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says
So even though you want a restoration of personal liberties and freedoms, you’re okay with the old Statist method of confiscating large amounts of your income to fund The State Union Members who wage war on the citizenry, over the use of flowers and agricultural crops like Hemp.

That seems rather inconsistent with your claims

So do you regret voting for Bernie Sanders now? Do you finally see the evils of bigger and bigger government?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 11:58am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

I just checked the thread. Patrick not only deleted the post, he deleted the actual user account. I knew Patrick wouldn't leave such a post up despite your claims.

errc says

Patrick definitely didn’t delete it. Hell, he may have been one of the Likes. Patrick also denies that racism exists lol

So yes, you were dishonest, and it's a shame that you feel the need to act this way.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 12:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says

Huh? Bernie campaigned on limiting government waste.

Why would I ever regret voting for Government efficiency? I’m a Real American

So you eliminate government waste by creating... more government?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 12:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says
Goran_K says
errc says

Huh? Bernie campaigned on limiting government waste.

Why would I ever regret voting for Government efficiency? I’m a Real American

So you eliminate government waste by creating... more government?


Bernie wanted to create a Single Payer system, as well as socialize the cost of college. That would have been a huge increase in government.

So how did voting for Bernie fall in line with your "small govt" goals?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 12:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says
The government has a LARGE role in the runaway costs in healthcare and university education. Bernie wanted to tackle all that waste

By creating a larger role for government within those sectors? How would that have reduced government waste?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 12:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says
Goran_K says
errc says
The government has a LARGE role in the runaway costs in healthcare and university education. Bernie wanted to tackle all that waste

By creating a larger role for government within those sectors? How would that have reduced government waste?

By being honest about it and addressing it head on. Then replacing it with something better

Why are you going so far off topic in this thread?

How would “addressing it head on” with more government create more efficiency?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 12:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

justme says
Strategist says
Bernie is an idiot. According to him, if everyone makes Zero, you are better off because you are equal.

Is it ok to call this for what it is -- a LIE?

Sure. Now explain why you believe it’s a lie.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 1:52pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote      

Graybox says
The daily posters both L/R are so focused on who next they can attack the tree is invisible. To bad you all don't take a month off and then come back with new perspective and perhaps new ppl to attack. This site is conditioned as is and there is no fix..... This is as good as it gets boys and girls....

I disagree. People who come here to troll/attack and in general just cause trouble won't be here for much longer, and the bans will start getting dished out. I've already noticed that some threads are a little bit more civil, but with a lot less volume. Civility will improve and I've never cared much about volume. I think too much volume from certain posters may have actually caused the membership to stagnate for a few years.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 1:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

justme says
The normal way of having a discussion is that the person that makes a claim has to back it up. It is not my job to prove that Bernie dd not make that statement. It is the job of Stragist to provide a solid reference to Bernie making such a statement.

Sure, but in the interest of generating debate, why don't you challenge his points and point out where there is dishonesty? Wouldn't that be more fun?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 1:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says
Whoa Goran will have to ban you for doing that he said it’s bigly against the rules

What is against the rules?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 2:13pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote      

Graybox says
Goran_K lol.... Patrick wants Volume you may not care about it however the conditioning I mention will make sure "you" get your wish low volume. Patnet had its day and now just critical mass keyboard verbal war mongers and he can continue down this dead end road as long as he wishes and the only change that will take place is more people not giving 2cents to be a part of this endless mess....

Maybe you're right but we're trying to clean things up. I don't remember the site being so vicious before. But it's gotten this way over the years. Kind of sad actually.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 2:20pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

errc says
Thought you said dragging comments from uncivil jail and reposting them to threads was against your rules?

I allowed you to drag out and post a comment where someone named Ironman called Obama a racial slur and allowed that to be posted and discussed through numerous posts.

Here, Sniper is asking you a question, and making a point about your previous vicious racial slurs towards me and my wife.

I'm just trying to be even handed here.

Of course I could delete all of your posts about Ironman's racial slur, and also Sniper's comments about your racist tirade as well.

Which way do you think would be preferable?
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 2:28pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says
Yea except you’re lying I didn’t take a post from uncivil jail and repost it to the mains. You were calling me a liar and asked for the proof!

We’re you just baiting me to break your rules?

Why do you feel the need to keep being so dishonest?

No I gave you a one time exception because I didn't believe you that Patrick would leave that type of comment up, and I was right, the comment was zapped.

Since I gave you a one-time exception, I think it fair to give one to Sniper.

(Please no more posting errrc's openly vicious racist tirade anymore though Sniper, if you could, thanks)
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 2:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

errc says

Again with the lying.

Patrick never censored the post where Sniper/Ironman called Obama a nigger. All of his posts were scrubbed wheN Patrick banned him for trolling his site with personal attacks 24/7.

This is provable. Simply ask @Patrick to confirm that he removed the post in question for being uncivil, and I’ll retract the accusations that you are lying.

Simple enough

If Patrick confirms what you're saying is correct about the Obama N-word comment, then of course I'll admit I was wrong. But in the grand scheme of things, it's no big deal to me, but thanks for your efforts.

I hope we can both agree that openly vicious racism is extremely hateful and the person who would use racism to hurt other people is probably a person who lacks moral character.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 2:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

justme says
And by the way, your statement about wanting to "generate debate" is diametrically opposed to what you said in MY thread, where you stated that

Yes, I want quality over volume. Right now what is happening here, between us, is just volume. I don't really think it helps the website.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 2:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

errc says

If you’re open to the possibility that you are wrong, why did you default by calling me a liar?

I’m confident you won’t find an honest person to agree with you that you can both act that way and except nor request, civility.

If you want civility, you’re going to have to lead by example

I never called your a liar. I simply said I don't believe the post was left up, and I was right.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 3:00pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

justme says
I disagree. It sure as heck is not just volume. Pointing out the shortcomings and self-contradictions of an omnipotent moderator is QUALITY, and to borrow a phrase, quality of the BELTFED variety. Nothing is more important than taking the moderators to task when they do wrong, as you have (IMO) done. Moderation by an omnipotent moderator has been an unmitigated disaster. That is my opinion.

I'm not sure moderation has had zero effect. Just look at how civil your post was. I'm impressed to be honest, and you got your point across. Good job.
  Goran_K   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 3:31pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

justme says
But the fact remains that omnipotent moderation and mob-based prosecution must be stopped.

You have nothing to worry about as long as you keep your posts focused on points/discussions instead of individuals.