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  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 24, 4:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Oh, the mindless ad hominem routine of the republicans crowd.
We saw the Hillary hatred thread. Now the Warren hatred thread.
Is there anything in it that debates policy? Hummm....
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 24, 4:38pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

What distinguishes the Trump crowd is it's sky high level of sectarianism and tribal instincts: they would rather tolerate whatever Trump does than admit the other side might have a point. In fact they are proud of every insult to human dignity and intelligence Trump throws around.
The media just whips the other side in shape, and here we are:
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 25, 12:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
Agreed. Compared to this batshit insanity Trumps embellishments are smooth talk. Until the left comes back to their common senses there's not much to debate about Trump here.

That's the point: the 2 sides are going batshit crazy, citing the other side as excuse.
Whatever happened to common sense and common interests.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 25, 4:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Do we need a thread to flame common criminals?
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 25, 4:34pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Booger says


Maybe her grand father told her she has indian blood?
That's really a big deal. Worth a life time of political attacks.
She could also have slept with prostitutes and paid them to keep silent. I guess THAT wouldn't be a big deal for the right wing nuts here.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 25, 4:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

No republicans common criminals? Seriously? What was the name of that guy tap dancing in toilets already?
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 25, 4:43pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
One cannot avoid the impression that the globalists will stop at nothing to remove Trump and continue their dissolution of the nation and its borders.


Hummm.... if you are a politician, attacks like this are kind of expected. Remember Benghazi?
If the guy is taken with his pants down repetitively, maybe someone needs to admit that the problem is not the attacks but that something is very wrong with this particular character to start with?
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 10:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The Chinese are good at flattery.
Every random move can be seen as a smart move in 17 dimensions chess.
However:
- China: whatever the US does, it will be hard to prevent that country to continue to catch up with the developed world, and based on its population it means it will grow to 2-4 times the size of the US economy. A large part of this is just unavoidable. They are the 800lb gorilla of the world, and the world will feel it. And Trump is presiding over the relative decline of his great nation. Not much he can do.
- Russia: you can court them and their dictator all you want. This doesn't change the fact that Russia and Russians see themselves (or want to be) the 2nd super power that counter balance the power of the US. i.e. they are against the US by default. Russia will ignore the US and continue to push its pawns in countries around it: like Ukraine, Iran and Syria. The only thing that will change this is when China starts asserting itself against them, and Russians are forced to admit they are a tiny country by population and economy.
- multilateral institutions: they were built to assert US power and may to some degree empower the weak, but Trump will realize there is not that much he can do to force smaller countries to do this or that. All you can do is (1) invade them which you can't do everywhere and is too costly, (2) punish them economically which is counter productive, (3) carrots and diplomacy, which is what international institutions do. Pissed off small nations can and will make your life harder. (just wait for North Korea to take the goodies and renege on giving up weapons).
Further it would be smart to assume the shackles of multilateralism just before passing the relay to China as the world most powerful nation, - handing them the shackles with it.
There is no clear vision of what Trump is trying to achieve and how he is trying to do it. As far as I can tell it is just chaos, just like his team.
Chaos can be good if it changes bad habits and forces people to reconsider situations, but it can also lead to catastrophic breakage or basic lack of trust. Way to early to claim Trump is smart.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 10:58am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Never have American libertarians loved so much authoritarianism .
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 12:06pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

You just have to dig a mile to get to the salty water.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 12:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
90% of gun murders happen in Democrat controlled cities.


Of course, everything bad that happens in the world is because of democrats.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 2:19pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Not everything, but there is enough empirical evidence that shows leftism killed more people in the 20th century than all 20th century Wars combined.

Right. Democrats are all Maoists, or maybe Stalinists. How else could they fail to be republicans?
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 2:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CovfefeButDeadly says
What is necessary to support such an idea is the false notion that the money pie remains a constant.

Whatever the pie is doing, it is clear that the lower 60% are getting not only a lower share of the pie, but also just less in real term.
Consider the cost of housing and healthcare, which they can't avoid. The rising cost of food.
Consider stagnating low wages.
Consider disappearing pensions.
Consider the hyper competition of workers for low skills jobs, and the constant job insecurity.
Consider the shrinking levels of upward social mobility.
This represents a catastrophic collapse of standards of living for the bottom 60%.
While the rich takes more and more.
A meme like "yeah but the pie is growing" is utter BS and propaganda.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says

No, but the majority of them are collectivists. Do you disagree?

What do you mean by collectivist? Is having a shared sewer "collectivism" in your mind? A shared army? A shared education system?
Where do you draw the line of "collectivism"?
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Insofar as Democrats believe most of the economy should be privately owned, they are not collectivists.
Clearly they aren't.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ocasio-Cortez doesn't speak for the Democratic party last I checked.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

A majority of democrats wouldn't agree with all of those. And these slogans mean nothing. What does "Housing is a human right" mean?
Is she gonna build houses for everyone who asks?
Most democrats probably don't believe in unrestricted immigration as well.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
What does medicare for all (aka Universal Health Care, aka single payer) mean? It means exactly what it says.


If you factor in the empirical failure of the private sector to provide affordable healthcare, and the empirical success of many nations to achieve that goal, it follows that many reasonable people are in favor of public healthcare.

I wouldn't call that collectivist. Not more than public education is collectivist.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:32pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Let me tell you what Ocasio-Cortez is not saying:
- Let's fight inequalities

You would think that would be a low hanging fruit for a "socialist". Much more than the "LGBT" agenda.

But that's not the direction the power-that-be want to go.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
You can't factor either of those things because they aren't true. Everything comes with compromises and sacrifices.

Yes they are true. You just don't want to admit it.
And no it doesn't. Many countries have better healthcare outcomes on most measures than the US and are still paying half what the US pays. Again a matter of empirical fact. Working with cartels has a price.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Are you being serious or is that rhetorical

I'm serious. The democratic party harps on women vs men, white vs blacks, gay vs straights, etc... Their hierarchy of oppressors to oppressed goes from straight white man to transgender black woman.
It never goes from rich guy to poor guy. Never.
A lot of their supporters are rich and want to stay that way.

Don't you wonder why they make so much noise about trans and non-binaries?
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
they are certainly built on the backs of capitalist funded breakthroughs from the West.

Fyi: most of the countries you mention do have private drug companies. You seem to be confusing drug research and medical care.

As for wait times: you do have to cherry pick the countries with the worst systems.
In spite of that I don't hear Canadians are dying on the curb, the mouth opened.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 3:51pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says


Are you joking?

That's pretty much Bernie Sanders entire political shtick.


Bernie Sander was sabotaged by his own Democratic party, remember?

Populism exists on the left and on the right. It doesn't mean he has the support.

You have to follow the plot.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 4:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
You don't think pharmaceutical innovation is part of health care? Hmm.


I'm saying you can have a single payer and private drug companies. It is typically the case in most industrialized nations.

Goran_K says
The US healthcare system has been exceedingly great for me


That's nice. I wonder how the average family of 4 with $50K income is doing when some health crisis shows up.
And I wonder how you'll fare at 70 when you need full time care and how long will your nest egg will last.

Anecdotic evidence doesn't prove the point.

Goran_K says
Yes populism does exists on both sides, but the right was able to blow up their establishment, and elected Trump.

What has the left done?


So far it shows a rich demagogue beats an old angry congress guy. Doesn't say much about the left or right.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 4:21pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says

Laziness. If you are competing for low skilled jobs your entire life, it simply means you never sought to improve your skill set or make something better of yourself.


This is the kind of easy rationalizations that keeps people from seeing the picture in front of them.

1 - First, it requires to believe that 2/3 of the population of the US became lazy and stupid, and unable to adjust. Why is it suddenly the case?
2 - There was a time when for example being a cook was a skill, now most jobs have been commoditized i.e. emptied from any skills and reduced to simple robotic gestures: you don't cook, you flip burgers. And anyone can do it. And there are hundreds of millions of people that are waiting to do it. The real restaurants that require real cooks are increasingly very few.
3 - not only these jobs are commoditized, they are increasingly automatized. Leaving less possibilities for people at the bottom.
4 - The jobs that require skills, like data scientists require so much of it that they can't be done by the average schmuck. These jobs get most of the pay gains. The top 10% get most of the gains. It doesn't mean that if 50% of people could do the job, they would get similar jobs, with these salaries. Instead only the best 1 in 10 get these jobs. It doesn't matter how hard you worked, if someone who is better than you, or more connected, took your job.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 26, 5:54pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Maybe "we reached a permanently high plateau."
Though if it stops going up, that means no further capital gains.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 27, 10:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RC2006 says
If they just shot anybody trying to get past the fence this would stop becoming an issue after one day same with our border.

Leftists would be on their case and probably force some high official to resign.
We are tied by morality.
We (the west) don't have what it takes to stop this.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 27, 11:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Only 4 quarters of Obama's tenure had better growth than this.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 27, 4:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

So you can find a group of nazis reps and that proves republicans are all nazis.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 27, 5:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

There is no doubt a fringe of the left is becoming intolerant and some violent.
I guess they realize being hippies - 'Peace' types - doesn't work well if you're going to oppose neo-nazis and white supremacists.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 27, 5:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
"There is no doubt a fringe of the Nazi movement is becoming intolerant and some violent towards Jews.

It's kind of obvious that there are always violent small groups on all sides.
This doesn't prove your contention that the entire left half of the country is like this.
So if you want to show it to us, go ahead.
It will take more than a cherry picked anecdote.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 29, 5:50pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLefty says
host Trevor Noah pitched Ocasio-Cortez perhaps the slowest softball he could - asking her to explain how she's planning on paying for her "Medicare for All" agenda


You are right she is dumb. The answer was obvious:
The US GOVERNMENT ALREADY PAYS, per capita, as much as for healthcare as other governments of industrialized countries who offer coverage for all.

So here it is: you just need to take the same money, and pay for "Medicare for All".

In other words, just beat down the doctor/insurance cartel until they lower their prices to a reasonable level.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 30, 11:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Sen. Bernie Sanders' "Medicare for all" plan would increase government health care spending by $32.6 trillion over 10 years, according to a study by a university-based libertarian policy center.

That's trillion with a "T."



This is someone that doesn't understand the basics: the government is a bigger cartel than the doctors. Today doctors set the price as they see fit. In a single payer system, the government sets a reasonable price as they see fit.

The government already pays as much per capita on healthcare as other industrialized countries that do offer "medicare for all" equivalents.

i.e. All the government has to do is just go ahead, offer medicare for all. Don't spend more.

If the doctors don't like it, they can kiss the big furry gov ass, and go work in Cuba or something.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 30, 11:28am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

socal2 says
If an American living in one of the most prosperous and rich countries on earth doesn't have the wherewithal to take care of their own healthcare needs with all of the existing insurance and welfare programs - they can move to Cuba or something.

No they don't have to do that.
They just show up at emergencies, and you pay for it.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 30, 12:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Medicare for all is a bad idea because it doesn't eliminate the problems of fee for service, profits adding to the cost of every single thing in health care, the huge cost of managing billing (roughly 25% of every dollar at a hospital or doctors office), etc., etc.. Until the money stops going down those ratholes it doesn't matter who pays for it.


"Medicare for all" provides a huge tool to limit costs: single payer sets the price.

I'll say it again: the government is a bigger cartel than the healthcare industry.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 30, 12:40pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

socal2 says
US healthcare is the most regulated industry in the country - and we wonder why it costs so much to the average consumer. I don't think the answer is to regulate it even more with a total government take over.


The argument that the US healthcare industry costs twice as much as other countries because it is heavily regulated doesn't make any sense.

It is more expensive because there is no competition*. No competition => no capitalism. End of story.

(*): No one shops around in an ambulance.
Most people do the procedures their doctors tell them to do.
Most people are willing to overpay because it's their lives on the line, they can't afford to not be covered.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 31, 10:59pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

When you have permanent huge trade deficits, as recommended by bloomberg favorite trade policy, it sorts of imply you go in debt.
This has consequences in the long term.
  Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 31, 11:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says
"That's right bitches, I've never bought my own groceries"

Or rather the only grocery he ever bought was booze.



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