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778,448 comments by 11,477 users, 2 online now: Patrick, Strategist
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Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 11, 7:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

mell says
2 jobs, womyn, kid and an active sports/workout schedule suck the time out of the day ;) I won't be able to jail uncivil/illegal comments in time. If Patrick is ok with a hands off mod sure, but that likely defeats the purpose of mods in the first place. What about Strategist bob, or curious2?


Hands off is fine if you just check in now and then, which you do anyway!
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 11, 8:59pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

mell says
Ok then, I like #investing, let's do it


Thanks @mell !

You are now the moderator of #investing. Currently your superpowers are only the ability to delete #investing comments and to ban users from #investing for a day at a time, but more are coming soon.

All I'm hoping for is fewer personal attacks and more real discussion about the topics.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 11, 8:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

And you now own https://patrick.net/post/1311720 where you can describe your rules for #investing.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 11, 9:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Sniper says
Only one page of users comes up, there is no "next" button to see additional users. There are more than one page of users, right?


Ah you are right!

Fixed now.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 11, 10:01pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Goran_K says
You know what’s awesome about the new system? I’ll never be able to defend deleting a comment or banning anyone if a personal attack is not involved. It’s a pretty neat system.


That's a great point.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 11, 10:18pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

My take is that nothing will really change or improve as long as teacher's unions are controlling the whole show:

So as Tracey Bailey and many other dedicated teachers have learned, schools can't improve until reformers confront the deadly consequences of the power that teachers' unions wield over a monopolistic industry, not only through contracts but also through the unions' influence on the elected officials who regulate the education industry. Until then, any reform—whether more money for the schools or smaller classes or high national standards or charter schools—will get short-circuited from the very outset.


https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-teachers’-unions-handcuff-schools-12102.html
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 11, 10:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Oops, mucked up zzyzzx's moderation ability for a while (I put in the wrong id), but that's fixed now. So here are the current moderators:

| cheesecake | Patrick |
| crime | zzyzzx |
| economics | Patrick |
| environment | Patrick |
| housing | WookieMan |
| humor | zzyzzx |
| investing | mell |
| politics | Goran_K |
| religion | Patrick |
| scitech | Patrick |

If anyone else is interested in my own topics above, just let me know. Or if you're really into a new topic and want to moderate that. Happy to have more moderators!
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 11, 10:56pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
Imagine a Robot flipping burgers, continuing to flip burgers as a grease fire rages.


I can imaging a smart robot doing that eventually, just out of spite at its lot.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 12, 7:39am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

anon_04cbc says
your

anon_04cbc says
you

anon_04cbc says
you're

anon_04cbc says
You

anon_04cbc says
You'll

anon_04cbc says
you


That is the kind of comment I'm trying to get rid of on the site. Obsessed with the user alone, not discussing any particular point of view or facts.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 12, 7:44am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Actually, I've gained quite a lot by having moderators. More eyes scanning for personal attacks and shooting them on sight.

As long as I think they're being fair about it, it doesn't have to be perfect. All it has to do is cut down on most of the interpersonal crap and leave most of the legitimate comments about real issues.

I think moderators of all political persuasions have the capacity to see the difference between a personal attack and a legitimate comment.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 12, 3:13pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Like goat, I also want big data sets I can run analytics on till I puke.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 12, 3:22pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Moderators will soon have the ability to free comments from jail.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 12, 3:47pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Onvacation says
patrick Do you consider vulgarity uncivil?


Not necessarily. Vulgarity can be good natured. Consider AF. Usually vulgar, but rarely if ever uncivil.

The essence of civility is a subtext of good will toward the other users.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 12, 9:16pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

It's not zero tolerance, but I also don't want flame wars between users. So it requires some judgement: is the comment purely attacking another user? If so, that's worthy of deletion imho.

I want to stamp those out and just talk about actual issues and ideas without deleting any of those.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 12, 9:19pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

mell says
Since Politics has evolved into the biggest category, why not have 2 politics topics with 2 different moderators. One of the anons can come out of the woodwork and take the other politics topic, or justme or PCGyver. @Patrick what's your input


Let's just try this for now.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 7:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Yes, that sounds about right.

Maybe jail a few insults, then warn if it continues, then delete if it continues after that. Then ban for a day.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 8:55am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote        

Gosh, seems a bit uncivil.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 7:25pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

errc says
Patrick, I think we need some modifications to the "uncivil" check again. Some members are using this to "uncivil" warnings from mods. Perhaps mod comments should not be jailable IMO. Works two ways, mods cannot "lie" about their post, and warnings cannot be jailed. Food for thought.


Yes, @Goran_K I agree. People are abusing the uncivil link and comments by moderators should have the ability to control that uncivil link by user as well, and to see who marked a comment uncivil. I will implement that, but first, I will manually liberate comments that should not be in jail, and remove the ability of those users to mark things as uncivil.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 7:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

It's definitely interesting.

My only regret so far is not being able to implement features faster. I will show names of who is marking comments uncivil, for example.

Working tonight on making as many functions "pure" as I can, meaning that they always give exactly the same output for the same input. Makes everything more testable and easier to reason about:

https://medium.com/javascript-scene/master-the-javascript-interview-what-is-a-pure-function-d1c076bec976

This should help speed up my development cycle.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 7:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Definitely hit a nerve with a lot of people, but that was not my intent. I'm just happy to have additional eyes looking for the comments that attack users instead of their points.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 8:23pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

rpanic01 says
I think you should do away with the anons.


It does seem to be a problem, so I have blocked anonymous commenting for now.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 8:27pm   ↑ like (6)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Everything is still OK for discussion, just don't attack the other users personally.

I should have imposed this rule years ago.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 8:29pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Lol, I really don't get the level of vitriol. But then I am admittedly slightly above zero on the autism spectrum. Computers are comfortingly reasonable and consistent by comparison with people.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 9:22pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Shit, I didn't realize I was causing that kind of trouble for users.

OK, there should be auto-save of drafts every minute or so. On the list.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 9:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

rpanic01 says
Hey Patrick I shot you an email about my account could you respond to it not sure if its going to your junk mail or something,


@rpanic01 I don't see it in regular mail or junk.

When did you send it?
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 9:27pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

mell says
the high and mighty want the average joes on both sides to fight amongst themselves while they guide us into our new lives as serfs.


Absolutely.

We fight, and they run off with the ball.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 9:37pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

It definitely did devolve into a less useful site because of all the insults being flung about, and because it's mostly not about housing now.

I actually toured open houses over the weekend, and may finally buy something if I can do it with zero debt. So I'll probably be writing more about housing in the coming months.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 9:46pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Goran_K says
I swear though PatNet wasn’t like this back in the days when thomas1986 and others were still around (for people who were around then).


I think it's because I was a Nazi about deleting flame war comments back then.

Really. Seems like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory is true.

Grateful to have moderator help in deleting all the personal attacks.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 10:24pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote        

Fucking White Male says
C’mon now Patrick....you’ve moved politically to the right in large part due to how vitriolic the left has become over the last 5-6 years.


I think I just understand things better now that I'm a bit older. It's a classic progression, lots of people change the same way.

"If you're young and conservative, you have no heart. If you're old and liberal, you have no brain."
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 7:10am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

errc says
so now you’re a Republican


No, just happen to think Trump is good for the country at the moment.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 7:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

errc says
Patrick, who is deleting my comments? I can see that the comments marked as uncivil go to jail, but who is deleting my other comments, and why?


I have deleted a few that were clearly simply personal attacks, mostly from comment jail, and mostly from anon users. Don't blame Goran.

Maybe there should be a delete buffer, where things go before they disappear completely.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 7:26am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (3)     quote        

errc says
What things are you understanding better now?

You voted for and supported Obama in both elections. Do you believe that if you’re old and liberal, you have no brain?

Personally, I believe if at any age you find yourself in the same camp as Religious folk, you obviously have no brain.


I now understand that religion can also have large beneficial effects, giving a sense of community and hope. And that Christianity in particular is a relatively harmless religion, certainly far less harmful than Islam. Christianity has an additional benefit of "inoculating" people against the virus of Islam.

If you're old and liberal, you're probably caught up in a true religion in every sense: unfounded beliefs which create a community and hope, but are fundamentally just as irrational as any religion, including things which are scientifically false, such as that women have the same predispositions as men, or that "there are no races", which is simply laughable.

I'd also say that liberals are considerably more violent than Christians lately, and that their obsession with identity politics plays right into the hands of our oligarchs, dividing us and distracting from the fundamental battle between capital and labor. Diversity = division.

It's also scientifically true that diversity of community destroys the sense of community, and all forms of civic engagement. Look it up. I've learned many more things with age and could go on, but need to go to work now.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 12:06pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

YesYNot says
It's an interesting concept. I think it is all much more innocent than that. My take is that Patrick just wants to have some moderators, because he didn't want to have to do it himself.


Yes, that's all there is to it. All I want is to get rid of the personal attacks, and I don't have time to do it all myself.

Any political opinion, no matter how odious, it's still very welcome. I would like to debate those opinions and not simply attack the person holding them.

I'm grateful to Goran for the help.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 6:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

errc says
Your presence here is uncivil.

I don’t usually speak for others, but I’m sure there’s a few others here that would appreciate if Patrick addressed this.

Patrick, is it possible for the forum to return to civility, so long as CiC is posting here with his Sniper alias?


It is possible.

We just have to keep blowing away all the personal attack comments. What remains will be civil.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 7:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Goran_K says
I hope we can both agree that openly vicious racism is extremely hateful and the person who would use racism to hurt other people is probably a person who lacks moral character.


I agree, and I don't like openly vicious racism, but I'm not willing to delete such comments because "racism" is used in the current atmosphere as an excuse to stifle debate in the press at at universities.

At the moment, I just want to delete personal attacks on other users. A patrick.net user could be a flaming Nazi calling for the extermination of the Jews, and still I would like to debate him rather than simply shut him down.

But if the Nazi is not going to debate issues and opinions, but insists on simply insulting other users, then he's got to go.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 7:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

errc says
Unless your goal is to suppress free speech, and silence any dissenting opinions and critiques. Maybe that is what Patrick is going for these days


Not at all. How many times can I say it? The rule is just don't deliberately insult the other users. Argue something other than the worthiness of the individual. That's about it.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 7:08pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

I honestly wish I could have Hitler and Mohammed on here. They would probably have a lot of interesting points. I think they'd get along, too.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 7:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

jvolstad says
As long as they don't recruit Realtor's.


BTW, this is fine with me. Not an insult to other users. And I really don't like realtors. Very corrupt industry.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 7:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Goran_K says
Leftist have tried to push the message out there that "diversity builds better communities", this is wrong. The truth is UNITY builds better communities. Islam and Western culture are extremely incompatible and that's why Europe is experiencing such social turmoil at the moment.


Yes, there is a reason that the national motto is E Pluribus Unum. Out of many, one. It's about unity, and minimizing our differences, not constantly emphasizing them.
Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 7:41pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Yes, good idea. I should have "and 24 lurkers" or whatever it is.

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