OMG! Shrek is dead!


By Dan8267   Follow   Wed, 21 Sep 2011, 1:23pm   21,388 views   328 comments
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The great tragedy is that it is only now after his passing that I realize how much I miss the little guy and his insane rants. Let us all bow our heads and remember the fond times we had with him. Let us remember his sacrifice, which allows us to finally understand why the number 42 is the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.

At least we can be consoled that Shrek died doing what he loved best and probably multitasking by posting on patrick.net at the same time.

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  1. Patrick


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    9   1:38pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    I hope I'm not being too much of a jerk.

    Here's Shrek's use of "Obambi" for a few days last week:

    | 2011-09-12 10:03:10 |
    | 2011-09-12 10:07:15 |
    | 2011-09-12 18:26:25 |
    | 2011-09-13 17:18:41 |
    | 2011-09-14 19:51:28 |
    | 2011-09-14 22:23:17 |
    | 2011-09-14 22:26:22 |
    | 2011-09-15 18:34:20 |
    | 2011-09-15 18:36:20 |
    | 2011-09-15 18:46:30 |
    | 2011-09-16 10:52:46 |
    | 2011-09-16 11:02:15 |
    | 2011-09-16 11:38:23 |
    | 2011-09-16 13:23:59 |
    | 2011-09-16 14:49:54 |
    | 2011-09-16 14:59:01 |

    It's like a broken record.

  2. Patrick


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    10   1:56pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Birther refers to people who believe a specific thing that isn't true, and it describes what they believe.

    Right-winger is an accurate discription of people on the right wing.

    Obambi just radiates irrational hatred for Obama without reference to anything specific that he's done.

    I suppose Obammunist does have a bit of descriptive meaning to it, but Obama is not even remotely communist. Some minor tweaks to health care and taxation are a far cry from actual communism.

  3. Patrick


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    11   2:14pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Using birther does imply hatred for, well, birthers. What else could you call them?

    Teabagger is definitely out of bounds for polite company.

  4. Bap33


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    12   3:25pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    what's in a name?

    A rose, by any other name, is still a rose.

  5. corntrollio


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    13   3:31pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    Birther refers to people who believe a specific thing that isn't true, and it describes what they believe.

    Tinfoil-hatted Shrek also believed that Osama Bin Laden wasn't killed when the administration said so. This was stated more than once, and conspiracy theories were stated (e.g. died several years ago of kidney problems, for example).

    This "I'm not a birther, I just asked for the birth certificate, said it was suspicious that he refused to provide it, questioned the documents that were provided, still engage in various tinfoil-hatted conspiracies about the birth certificate, I wanted a law to be passed requiring disclosure although I stated such a law was moot after Obama provided it, but I never actually stated that he was born on foreign soil even though I consistently questioned it" thing is just a smokescreen. This thread makes it quite obvious: http://patrick.net/forum/?p=618795

    It's like those politicians that say: "I have no reason to think that Obama was born outside the US, but I have not seen any proof." Come on.

  6. leo707


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    14   4:19pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    Interesting how you can quote him given how all his posts are nuked and any context you wish to allude to can be applied. No wonder he re-registered to keep his account name from getting hijacked.

    That thread pretty much sums up why shrek was viewed as a birther even though he claimed to not be a birther.

    What do you think Mars? Before the release of the long form was there any credible documented proof that Obama was born in the US? Shrek did not believe that there was.

    MarsAttacks! says

    Since there was no body or even photographs of a body, nobody knows if he was killed or not.

    What do you think Mars? Do you think Ben Laden is dead? Do you think that the account of him being killed by the SEALs was true?

    MarsAttacks! says

    In both cases, are you saying that people who don't trust politicians' unproven claims are 'tinfoil-hatted'?

    From what I read that is not what is being said at all. Only specific theories, that are highly dubious, are being refereed to as "tinfoil-hatted". Not all distrust in politicians.

  7. corntrollio


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    15   4:20pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    It's like a broken record.

    Can you do a similar chart for "libruhl"? -- in its idiotic Nixonian sense of course, not its real meaning.

    leoj707 says

    From what I read that is not what is being said at all. Only specific theories, that are highly dubious, are being refereed to as "tinfoil-hatted". Not all distrust in politicians.

    Yes, exactly -- that seemed pretty obvious from my statement. And while we're talking about definitions, this is exactly like how birther really refers to people who question whether Obama was born in the US in any form. Mars/Shrek is just messing with definitions, but not really defending the substantive argument.

  8. terriDeaner


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    16   4:30pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Confusing...

    Patrick says

    "For now" means he could re-register. So he's not really banned.

    Ok, so Shrek has been given a time out? Did this start in a different thread?

    Shrekgrinch says

    Shrekgrinch is retiring, folks.

    I am sure you'll miss me.

    I only reserved the 'Shrekgrinch' alias to prevent some asshole (of which there are plenty on Patrick.net other than myself) from hijacking it.

    Now Shrek has annouced his retirement... as Shrek...

    MarsAttacks! says

    Ack! Acck!

    But is already back incarnated as MarsAttacks!?

    What else did I miss?

  9. leo707


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    17   4:33pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    terriDeaner says

    What else did I miss?

    I think that you are pretty much up to speed.

  10. corntrollio


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    18   4:40pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    terriDeaner says

    But is already back incarnated as MarsAttacks!?

    What else did I miss?

    Not much. I'm assuming we'll start getting faulty constitutional arguments next, since shrek/Mars is this guy:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c,2849/

  11. Patrick


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    19   4:48pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    corntrollio says

    Can you do a similar chart for "libruhl"? -- in its idiotic Nixonian sense of course, not its real meaning.

    OK, recent use of libruhl by Shrekgrinch:

    | 2011-09-07 09:29:58 |
    | 2011-09-07 10:43:51 |
    | 2011-09-07 11:37:25 |
    | 2011-09-07 15:11:47 |
    | 2011-09-07 15:19:55 |
    | 2011-09-09 17:41:57 |
    | 2011-09-09 17:44:16 |
    | 2011-09-14 09:32:35 |
    | 2011-09-14 22:18:36 |
    | 2011-09-15 10:09:04 |
    | 2011-09-15 10:13:34 |
    | 2011-09-15 10:23:49 |
    | 2011-09-15 10:49:33 |
    | 2011-09-15 18:34:20 |
    | 2011-09-15 18:46:30 |
    | 2011-09-16 10:58:09 |
    | 2011-09-16 11:02:15 |
    | 2011-09-16 11:03:50 |
    | 2011-09-16 11:12:22 |
    | 2011-09-16 11:20:39 |
    | 2011-09-16 14:49:54 |
    | 2011-09-16 15:06:34 |
    | 2011-09-16 15:11:27 |

  12. leo707


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    20   4:56pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    terriDeaner says

    But is already back incarnated as MarsAttacks!?

    Nope. But Shrekgrinch was the one who got me to start reading Patrick.net.

    Ack! Acck!

    Ah, I see, you are just a fan.

    Who, after years of reading, happened to start posting moments after shrek got booted, and are just defending his honor.

  13. terriDeaner


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    21   4:58pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    Nope. But Shrekgrinch was the one who got me to start reading Patrick.net.

    I think you're trying to fool me...

  14. leo707


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    22   5:04pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Mars you have had an account for years, and before today just one post in 2010. The suddenly after shrek getting erased a flurry of posts.

    Are you one of these people?
    Patrick says

    Several times I got people telling me they avoid the forum because of Shrekgrinch.

  15. leo707


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    23   5:07pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    What's with libruhl? Shrek was surprised by the resistance to that.

    It was not so much "resistance" as it was confusion. I think you would be hard pressed to find a post where someone got defensive about it. I don't remember seeing any, but I did see several that were more along the lines of WTF is a "libruhl"?

  16. leo707


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    24   5:18pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    leoj707 says

    Are you one of these people?

    Patrick says

    Several times I got people telling me they avoid the forum because of Shrekgrinch.

    No. Why?

    Ack! Acck!

    Because someone who had been avoiding the forums might choose now to start posting.

  17. leo707


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    25   5:23pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    I wouldn't know. Nobody knows that there are any documented proof that I was born here except for those who have asked for it and that I agreed to provide it, like the DMV, Passport Office, the county when I applied for a marriage license, etc.

    Yeah, and Obama provided documentation (the infamous "short-form") that could be used as proof of birth at the DMV, Passport Office, etc. That and several other items should have been enough for anyone to "know" that he was indeed born here.

    Shrek remained unconvinced.

  18. leo707


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    26   5:24pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    leoj707 says

    Because someone who had been avoiding the forums might choose now to start posting.

    Avoid the forums?

    Ack! Acck!

    Yes, as per:
    Patrick says

    Several times I got people telling me they avoid the forum because of Shrekgrinch.

  19. leo707


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    27   5:27pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    leoj707 says

    Shrek remained unconvinced.

    Yes, I know. He can be rather obstinate that way.

    Ack! Acck!

    And it was that obstinacy in the face of overwhelming evidence that convinced others to believe he is a birther.

  20. leo707


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    28   5:35pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    I don't see how.

    The reasoning for people believing that shrek is a birther has already been addressed:
    corntrollio says

    This "I'm not a birther, I just asked for the birth certificate, said it was suspicious that he refused to provide it, questioned the documents that were provided, still engage in various tinfoil-hatted conspiracies about the birth certificate, I wanted a law to be passed requiring disclosure although I stated such a law was moot after Obama provided it, but I never actually stated that he was born on foreign soil even though I consistently questioned it" thing is just a smokescreen. This thread makes it quite obvious: http://patrick.net/forum/?p=618795

    It's like those politicians that say: "I have no reason to think that Obama was born outside the US, but I have not seen any proof." Come on.

    You can choose to disagree with this reasoning, but there it is. That is why people think that shrek is a birther. Unless you have some new evidence, not already gone over ad nauseum, I don't think you are going to have much luck convincing people shrek is not a birther.

  21. leo707


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    29   11:02pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    I am just not seeing the reasoning you mention, is all.

    I don't think that I can spell it out any more clearly than done by corntrollio and the tread referenced. In the thread you can see all the relevant shrek quotes.

  22. Dan8267


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    30   11:28pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    Actually, I got one too many complaints about Shrek so I've deleted him for now.

    Wow, I didn't even know he was deleted. Good timing on this thread. I guess that explains why he didn't respond. I was shocked because I thought his ego would force him to, especially after I photochopped that terminator furby.

    Patrick says

    Obambi just radiates irrational hatred for Obama without reference to anything specific that he's done.

    Exactly. If your gonna hate a politician, have a good reason to. They sure as hell supply many.

    corntrollio says

    Tinfoil-hatted Shrek also believed that Osama Bin Laden wasn't killed when the administration said so.

    What's weird is that in my posting In Soviet Russia Bachmann is a professor of current affairs Shrek said "Claiming OBL is dead...but doesn't have a body or even photos proving it....no check."

    I took that to mean he was implying Bin Laden was still alive, so I replied:

    If Bid Laden were not dead and the United States government tried to convince the world that he was, then Bid Laden would simply release a video of himself and make the U.S. government look really, really stupid.

    As such, any Bid Laden is still alive conspiracy simply makes no sense.

    Then Shrek kept claiming that he didn't think Bid Laden was still alive. It was like he wasn't even aware of what he just wrote.

    Also, I just noticed that now all of Shrek's postings are gone. I'm not sure that's a good idea because now our responses to his postings don't make sense.

    terriDeaner says

    But is already back incarnated as MarsAttacks!?

    Possibly. The MarsAttacks! account was only used to post once before Shrek got deleted, and that posting was over a year ago. Perhaps it was an account Shrek made and just let sit idle until his main account got deleted. In any case, MarsAttacks! is so far being much nicer than Shrek was. If that lasts, perhaps it doesn't matter if its Shrek.

    Personally, I don't mind debating ultra-conservatives. I just wished they'd make more sense in their postings. It's hard to rationally debate with someone who has no grasp on reality.

  23. leo707


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    31   11:34pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    Then Shrek kept claiming that he didn't think Bid Laden was still alive. It was like he wasn't even aware of what he just wrote.

    Also, I just noticed that now all of Shrek's postings are gone. I'm not sure that's a good idea because now our responses to his postings don't make sense.

    Yeah, I remember that exchange, classic shrek. I would not worry too much about responses not making sense. With a lot of them I don't know if adding the original shrek comments would have helped the conversation make more sense.

  24. Dan8267


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    32   11:35pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    leoj707 says

    WTF is a "libruhl"?

    Proof that conservatives aren't as creative as liberals. That's why there aren't nearly as many conservative comedians. Think about it.

  25. leo707


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    33   11:36pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    In any case, MarsAttacks! is so far being much nicer than Shrek was. If that lasts, perhaps it doesn't matter if its Shrek.

    I agree.

  26. Dan8267


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    34   11:43pm Thu 22 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    leoj707 says

    With a lot of them I don't know if adding the original shrek comments would have helped the conversation make more sense.

    It would at least show that one side of the conversation was rational. I'd always use clear, concise arguments that specifically address Shrek's claims and I'd back them up with reputable, expert sources like American Political Science Review and then Shrek would quote a source that had claimed Plato was taught by Barney the Purple Dinosaur.

    Shrek's arguments were the best demonstration of why people should not vote Republican anymore, which is a shame because that party didn't always suck and now we're left only one party that couldn't even tie its own shoes.

  27. Nomograph


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    35   6:38am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    shrek

    MarsAttacks! says

    Obambi

    MarsAttacks! says

    Birther

    MarsAttacks! says

    Shrekgrinch

    MarsAttacks! says

    birth certificate

    OMG. This is hilarious.

  28. Patrick


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    36   9:18am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Dan8267 says

    Also, I just noticed that now all of Shrek's postings are gone. I'm not sure that's a good idea because now our responses to his postings don't make sense.

    Yes, that was too rash on my part, and I regret it. I could recover from backup, but that's work. OK, I'll see how much work it is.

    Dan8267 says

    conservatives aren't as creative as liberals. That's why there aren't nearly as many conservative comedians. Think about it.

    That gets very close to the core of the difference, IMHO. The two sides just talk right past each other, because they're operating on different wavelengths. They cannot actually communicate. The liberals try to talk about facts and the conservatives couldn't care less about facts. The conservatives use code words to talk about their emotions, and in particular about their hate for liberals who use facts to make them look dumb.

    When Gore was debating Bush, and Gore went into a bunch of tedious facts, he lost the debate right there. Bush was great at pushing the hate button, and just did that one trick over and over.

    Stephen Colbert captured this difference perfectly:

    That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.

    Creativity and knowledge of the facts tend to be on the left, and this makes people on the right intimidated. Except for Gore, not a creative guy. When the right wingers get creatively mocked (as by Colbert) for getting the facts wrong, they perceive it as "arrogance", purely on an emotional level. As a friend said to me, it's like talking to a dog. All they hear is a tone of voice, and the tone is saying "you dumb dog".

    Bush was obviously stupid and resentful of the better educated, but that was his big selling point. He represented the right wing perfectly.

    My analysis is of course itself arrogant and a good example of what I'm talking about. It's not going to win any converts from the right. They would rather pay higher taxes than the rich and go without health care than be humiliated.

  29. leo707


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    37   9:45am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    That gets very close to the core of the difference, IMHO. The two sides just talk right past each other, because they're operating on different wavelengths. They cannot actually communicate. The liberals try to talk about facts and the conservatives couldn't care less about facts. The conservatives use code words to talk about their emotions, and about their hate in particular.

    Yeah, but I think that this is a relatively recent phenomena. Not too long ago both conservative and liberals had some reason and logic behind their views, and one could agree or disagree with that underlying but it was there. Just in the recent years (10-15?) the conservative perspective has become less reality based, and more gut based.

    It is kind of funny how liberals, generally speaking, are spineless and let themselves be walked upon, but basically the moderate conservatives have done the same thing by letting the extreme seize control of their party.

  30. lurker


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    38   10:31am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Wow. Miss the forum for a few weeks and all heck breaks loose. That'll learn me to rethink my priorities - Patrick.net first and grad school second!

    I'm sure Shrek will be around again in some form or other, just like the devil in Devil's Advocate.

  31. Dan8267


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    39   10:38am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    The conservatives use code words to talk about their emotions, and in particular about their hate for liberals who use facts to make them look dumb.

    They also use code words to mask their racism. "Kenya" is code for "African" and "black". The tea party members would love for there to be an exception to "only natural born Americans can run for president" in the case of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    "Elite" is code word for uppity. So guess what "Elite Kenyan" means.

    Tea Party Codewords has some good examples of this.

    The CNN Tea Party and Republican Presidential Debate shows that the Tea Party isn't actually a party. It's just the most extreme subset of the Republican party. That's why the national debt didn't mean anything until a Democrat got elected.

  32. Dan8267


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    40   10:43am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    Yes, that was too rash on my part, and I regret it. I could recover from backup, but that's work. OK, I'll see how much work it is.

    Rule 76 of databases, never delete. Instead use a column to mark rows as deleted: either a boolean or a nullable "DeletedTimestamp" DateTime field. That way you can easily undelete.

  33. ¥


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    41   10:50am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    That's why the national debt didn't mean anything until a Democrat got elected.

    the deficit was tailing down during Bush's second term . . .

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=2ou

    Of course, TOTAL debt in the system doubled, 2000 - 2007:

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=2ov

    so that was were the Bush economy really got its oomph, not the low taxes.

    Low taxes aren't doing shit for us now.

  34. iwog


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    42   11:36am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    MarsAttacks! says

    But after reading a lot of this thread, I am now starting to believe some of the stories he told me that I didn't think was possible...

    I see. So which view from which liberal here did you find most outrageous? Since you were so amazed, it shouldn't be hard to tell us a single example.

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    43   11:39am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    Shrek believes that Bin Laden died in some cave of natural causes years ago...when the government suddenly stopped pouring resources into finding him like they were doing before. So, what he wrote made sense IF he explained that as well.

    Yeah, I remember him writing that, but he wrote it after the comment where it sounded like he believed that that Ben Laden was still alive.

    shrekgrinch says

    Claiming OBL is dead...but doesn't have a body or even photos proving it....

    That sounds a lot like someone who thinks Ben Laden is still alive.

    When people (and reasonably so) interpreted that as shrek believing Ben Laden was alive, all shrek had to say was, "oops, I did not mean to come off like that. I actually believe..." But, no always wanting to play the poor persecuted victim he once again choose to argue an irrational point of view. He made it into a much bigger deal than it had to be. It is almost as if he does it just for the drama.

  36. Vicente


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    44   11:49am Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    leoj707 says

    "oops, I did not mean to come off like that. I actually believe..."

    This is stolen from Glenn Beck's playbook. Example Beckisms:

    Beck went on the morning show "Fox & Friends," where he ruminated on Obama's racist proclivities. "I'm not saying that he doesn't like white people. I'm saying he has a problem. He has a -- this guy is, I believe, a racist."

    Another time, he warned that the new "smart grid" electricity system could be used by the government to take "critical information out of your house." Then came the usual disclaimer: "I'm not saying that Obama or the Democrats or the Republicans or anybody are going to take this technology and use it this way. However, you know . . . who knows what could happen?"

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/30/AR2010093005268.html

    Yeah Beck also liked to float his loony-tune theories as though he's just spent precious minutes of expensive air-time talking passionately about something he wants to remain distanced from. Consider it a disclaimer, here this might cause cancer but I want to make sure you can't hold me liable.

  37. leo707


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    45   12:16pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    Shrek tells me Nomo is not to be trusted when it comes to quoting people in context. Who's Nomo?

    This exact quote was taken by 3-4 people Nomo being one.

    Nomograph is a frequent poster on Pnet, look through Nomo's posting history and decide for yourself:
    http://patrick.net/forum/wp-admin/edit-comments.php?a=1948&submit=Search

    Many different people are quoted.

  38. leo707


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    46   12:29pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    MarsAttacks! says

    He DOES like to say things constructed in 'logical trap's that trick people into thinking he said something that he actually did not.

    So.... shrek want's to trick people into thinking he said something that he did not, so that he can then whine and complain about being a victim when others "fall" for the trick?

  39. Patrick


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    47   12:38pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    OK, Shrek comments and posts are recovered, at least up to 16 Sep. I don't have a backup after that one.

    http://patrick.net/forum/?author=6538

    Dan8267 says

    Rule 76 of databases, never delete. Instead use a column to mark rows as deleted: either a boolean or a nullable "DeletedTimestamp" DateTime field. That way you can easily undelete.

    What are the other 75 rules? I think I probably need to learn those too.

  40. leo707


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    48   12:45pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I don't think that I have ever seen shrek use a proper "logic trap" in conversation. Often he has trouble with just the basic logic, and first to set a logical trap you need to have a logical argument, and facts.

    Implication, metaphor, etc. are not "traps" or "tricks". They can be cleverly used, but one using them should expect others to pickup on the insinuation. It might seem like magic to some, but you can actually say things in the English language without directly or explicitly stating them.

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