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OMG! Shrek is dead!

By Dan8267   Follow   Wed, 21 Sep 2011, 1:23pm   18,095 views   328 comments
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The great tragedy is that it is only now after his passing that I realize how much I miss the little guy and his insane rants. Let us all bow our heads and remember the fond times we had with him. Let us remember his sacrifice, which allows us to finally understand why the number 42 is the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.

At least we can be consoled that Shrek died doing what he loved best and probably multitasking by posting on patrick.net at the same time.

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1. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,188 threads 6,158 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA

   49   1:35pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   leoj707 says It is kind of funny how liberals, generally speaking, are spineless and let themselves be walked upon, but basically the moderate conservatives have done the same thing by letting the extreme seize control of their party. I agree with this. Obama's a great example. He just won't get on TV and say things that need to be said, like "It is our obligation as a country to provide some minimal level of health care for every citizen, the same way we provide for the common defense." At least he finally managed to say something about the unfairly low taxation of billionaires, after Warren Buffett came out and said it first. And where are all the reasonable Republicans? Why do we hear only from the ones shouting incoherent slander all the time? I suppose reasonable Republicans immediately get attacked as RINO's (Republicans In Name Only) because they are simply not extreme enough.

2. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,982 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

   50   2:21pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   So Shrek is gone. I know that he believed that what happens on Patnet is "real" and that he was fighting the man, to some extent. But he was obnoxious and rude, hijacking every thread. Now that he's gone, tho, let's forget him and not pay homage to him. Ellies gonna go ride a horse in Shrek's honor now.

3. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

   51   2:22pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says I agree with this. Obama's a great example. He just won't get on TV and say things that need to be said, Yeah, great example. One of the reasons why I like Elizabeth Warren so much. Not sure if you have seen this thread yet: http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1050539 But, she says what needs to be said. Patrick says And where are all the reasonable Republicans? Good question, and when are they going to say enough is enough and take their party back?

4. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

   52   2:25pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   elliemae says Now that he's gone, tho, let's forget him and not pay homage to him. Is he really gone though? I agree that we should not pay homage, but those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

5. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (16) 764 threads 7,710 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

   53   2:31pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bellingham Bob says the deficit was tailing down during Bush's second term . . . People like me have been complaining about the national debt and the deficit since 1985, and I was watching Transformers at that time. The mass conservative media outlet has only started complaining vocally since Obama took presidency. They went from "deficits don't matter; Reagan proved that" to "we must cut everything, but we can't raise taxes on the richest 1%" real quick. I would accept the sincerity of the Tea Party if they had bitched and moaned about Bush's excessive war-time spending. Still, they won't admit that the Bush/Cheney administration went wrong when they took the surplus of the Clinton years and squandered it. And yes, I'll be the first person to say that is wasn't Clinton but rather people like me building the Internet that made the 1990s so prosperous. However, we're still reaping the benefits of the Internet and corporate profits are rolling in; it's just that the common man ain't getting any of that prosperity because it's all being syphoned by the richest fraction of 1%. MarsAttacks! says Shrek believes that Bin Laden died in some cave of natural causes years ago...when the government suddenly stopped pouring resources into finding him like they were doing before. So, what he wrote made sense IF he explained that as well. Unfortunately, he sure wasn't good at stating this position in a clear manner. I can honestly say that I've never intentionally misinterpreted Shrek. I think, though, he enjoyed misinterpreting others. However, I find it hard to buy that Bin Laden died years ago. How would you explain the recent intelligence of plans for 9/11's 10th anniversary? Unless you want to say that's a conspiracy too. MarsAttacks! says 'tag teaming against the liberal horde' The thing is, we're not actually far-left. Lennon was far left. If we appear far-left it's because the far-right has gone to lala land. Most of the sentiments expressed on this website are centrist at worst, or at least what would have been considered centrist for most of the 20th century (before the great polarization of America). shrekgrinch2 says Hahaha! They didn't make sense to begin with, so what are ya bitching about? Ah, classic Shrek. Never explains his assertions that everyone else is crazy. I have a theory that Shrek and Mars are the same person, but they don't know it. It's like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde thing. Or maybe Spock vs. the evil Kirk from the parallel universe. leoj707 says I don't think that I have ever seen shrek use a proper "logic trap" in conversation. Often he has trouble with just the basic logic, and first to set a logical trap you need to have a logical argument, and facts. I do logic for a living. That's basically everything a software developer does. I can assure you that Shrek is incapable of any kind of "logic trap". He'd likely get his own foot stuck in the trap. Now an illogic trap... Patrick says What are the other 75 rules? I think I probably need to learn those too. I was just embellishing there. However, there are probably a few dozen guidelines. Of course, it depends on what camp you fall into. I'm an OO guy myself so I like object-relational mappings and perhaps some JDBC/ODBC, but I have found that data-centric people prefer stored procedures to implement all business logic. Naturally what rules you follow will differ greatly between those two camps. Patrick says I suppose reasonable Republicans immediately get attacked as RINO's (Republicans In Name Only) because they are simply not extreme enough. Did you see the Tea Party / Republican debate? They even boo'd Rick Perry for not shooting Mexicans on sight. When the moderator asked Ron Paul if the state should let an uninsured young man die, the crowd shouted "YES!" These piranhas will attack their own. I suppose that's a good thing. Fox News created the Tea Party but lost control of it. Now the Tea Party threatens to destroy the Republican Party. I guess they regret opening that Pandora's Box of Crazy. shrekgrinch2 says sorry, couldn't resist. I should have known you faked your own death. The album you released was a dead giveaway.

6. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

   54   2:39pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Dan8267 says I have a theory that Shrek and Mars are the same person, but they don't know it. Oh, that is something to consider... Dan8267 says I should have known you faked your own death. The album you released was a dead giveaway. Ah, ha nice reference.

7. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (16) 764 threads 7,710 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

   55   2:41pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says Obama's a great example. He just won't get on TV and say things that need to be said, like "It is our obligation as a country to provide some minimal level of health care for every citizen, the same way we provide for the common defense." Obama is in campaign mode now. He's starting to say stuff like this again. I doubt his second term will be any more successful than his first though. He might make an impact if the Democrats get a super-duper majority in both houses. Having a mere super-majority didn't help.

8. ¥ Follow Befriend 35 threads 5,700 comments Bellingham, WA

   56   3:23pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Dan, the Dems didn't have a supermajority in the Senate for that long (between Franken being seated and Scott Brown taking Kennedy's seat), and at any rate what is necessary is a supermajority of *liberal* dems not just dems. The House is somewhat different since it is strictly majoritarian. Here's a cool graph: showing how the more-conservative right-tail of Senate Dems was able to control everything in 2009-2010.

9. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,556 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   57   4:07pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says MarsAttacks! says But after reading a lot of this thread, I am now starting to believe some of the stories he told me that I didn't think was possible... I see. So which view from which liberal here did you find most outrageous? Since you were so amazed, it shouldn't be hard to tell us a single example. I see you've picked up Shrek's habit of not answering any questions on the topics you post about.

10. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (16) 764 threads 7,710 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

    58   4:35pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says You say 'tom-ayto', I say 'tom-ahhto' and shrek says 'Obambi'. It's all relative. You say intensive interrogation. I say torture. You say eugenics. I say genocide. You say high pressured intimate relations. I say rape. Yep, it's all in the wording isn't it? Here's a little math problem for you. How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Answer: Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

11. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,982 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    59   4:36pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says Avoid the forums? Shrek told me it was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad. That's why I started reading them again to see what he was talking about. Your buddy drove people away due to his constant personal attacks. It's sad that he thought it was "bad" without recognizing that he made it that way. MarsAttacks! says He DOES like to say things constructed in 'logical trap's that trick people into thinking he said something that he actually did not. He does it to me all the time. I've gotten better at paying attention to what he actually says as a result. Cool. We done talking about your friend, now? He was offensive and I certainly hope that he's gone.

12. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (16) 764 threads 7,710 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

    60   4:47pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says I didn't know I had be on p-net every waking moment just to wait a question from you. Well, now that you read his question, you could technically answer it.

13. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,556 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    61   5:23pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says To answer your question: I refer to the hysterical characterizations of conservatives and the conspiracy stuff I am reading on here in this thread so far. Its like I am reading entries in Dem Underground and sites like that. Thanks for that, but that didn't answer my question. Here it is again: iwog says So which view from which liberal here did you find most outrageous?

14. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (16) 764 threads 7,710 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

    62   5:36pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   And the duck takes round one.

15. mdovell Follow Befriend (4) 28 threads 776 comments

    63   5:49pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bellingham Bob says Dan, the Dems didn't have a supermajority in the Senate for that long (between Franken being seated and Scott Brown taking Kennedy's seat), and at any rate what is necessary is a supermajority of *liberal* dems not just dems. Actually no one owns a seat. One could argue that Coakley might have deserved the seat but she ran a really bad campaign. SNL even joked if she ran for mayor of Berkley against Cheney she'd lose. I hear you though. In all honestly I would say that the concept at least of a north american liberal is dead. The last liberal president was Nixon. I can make arguments on how Clinton (easily) and Carter were not liberal..they might have tried at first but they weren't. The problem that the left makes is that they go for people due to popularity rather than those that spent some time. Here's an example. In 2004 unions backed Dean rather than Gephardt. Dean overspent and ran out of cash quickly leading to Kerry to pretty much take the lead. Kerry frankly didn't really compete well. He actually helped take down BCCI back in the 1980's but didn't even mention it. In order for any group to gain legitimacy they would have to have a number of wins on their belt. Going after health care is a pretty big goal. The framing should be on more less controversial issues. Who today can only argue that we are winning the war on drugs? Nixon, Reagan, Bush 41...how come democrats don't sponsor decriminalization? It would easily save the government money. Many states have or are moving in this direction. Some issues you cannot win. Gun control doesn't make that much sense to advocate.it's no longer a major issue...the environment is getting in the same boat. Some of the terminology can be changed to win various arguments. Same sex marriage should be rephrased to be a "freedom" to marry rather than a "right". Democrats could win in many areas just by changing that. I think the biggest flaw is that democrats don't "sell" government. If they stand for something they should at least defend it.

16. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,982 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    64   5:55pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says Can you provide a list for me of who is a liberal on this thread and who isn't? Again, with the labels! You want I should lay down & die?!

17. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,982 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    65   5:56pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Sorry, momentary lapse - I channeled my jewish grandmother.

18. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,556 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    66   6:15pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says iwog says So which view from which liberal here did you find most outrageous? I don't know, since nobody has labels 'liberal' or 'whatever' next to their names. Can you provide a list for me of who is a liberal on this thread and who isn't? Ack! Acck! Uhh........you don't know? That's odd, because you said: MarsAttacks! says I am now starting to believe some of the stories he told me that I didn't think was possible.. So what stories were so outrageous that you didn't think it could be possible, but were just confirmed for you?

19. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,556 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    67   6:40pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says Again, I already answered that...as you quoted as well. I quoted: MarsAttacks! says To answer your question: I refer to the hysterical characterizations of conservatives and the conspiracy stuff I am reading on here in this thread so far. Really?? Do I REALLY have to say "Like what?"

20. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    68   6:49pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   So... how long are we going to pretend that Mars is not shrek?

21. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    69   6:53pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   IMarsAttacks! says leoj707 says So... how long are we going to pretend that Mars is not shrek? Wow....lot of paranoia here. Ack! Acck! It is not paranoia if they are really after you. Besides, so what if you are shrek what has that got to do with paranoia?

22. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    70   6:56pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says iwog says Do I REALLY have to say "Like what?" Like what? Uhhh.....not sure what you mean there. Ack! Acck! You made a genralized statement, and Iwog asked you to be more specific. You then "answered" with another geralaized statement, i.e.- you did not actually answer the question.

23. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    71   6:58pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says leoj707 says It is not paranoia if they are really afer you. Touché! So, why are you guys 'after me'? Because I am Shrek's bud? (sorry Elliemae...but it isn't my fault, really!) Ack! Acck! Um... you were callin me(us) paranoid, so would it not be then you who is after us?

24. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    72   7:12pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says leoj707 says You made a genralized statement, and Iwog asked you to be more specific. You then "answered" with another geralaized statement, i.e.- you did not actually answer the question. I was asked two different things by different people about the same thing I had said, hence the confusion. And as for specifics, I never said anything about specific liberals for example, so why was I asked to point them out? I feel like I'm in a Kafka novel or something. Ack! Acck! OK, here is a specific question: What specific examples do you have that are representative of the outrageous (that you belived to be impossible) stories that you have had confirmed by reading Pnet?

25. HousingWatcher Follow Befriend 285 threads 1,760 comments

    73   7:21pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Hi shrek! I see your exile was only temporary... really temporary.

26. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    74   7:43pm Fri 23 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says Yes, but more like to get them off track of their topic so then he can start having his fun with them. Isn't this what trolls do?

27. American in Japan Follow Befriend (28) 149 threads 1,398 comments

    75   3:10am Sat 24 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   So are there any nominees for the reincarnated "Shrekgrinch"? Perhaps he has commented already on this one.

28. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,982 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    76   9:53am Sat 24 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarsAttacks! says He Who Won't Be Named Because Elliemae Says So..So, why are you guys 'after me'? Because I am Shrek's bud? (sorry Elliemae...but it isn't my fault, really!) elliemae says Your buddy drove people away due to his constant personal attacks.. He was offensive..obnoxious and rude, hijacking every thread...Now that he's gone, tho, let's forget him and not pay homage to him Mars, I don't have the power to "ban" a name, nor did I say that his name shouldn't be mentioned. Like Shrek, you're twisting this into a competition where you're the victim. Maybe you are him, maybe you're not. I really don't give a shit either way. I actually wouldn't care if he remained on the forum, if he would have stopped his childish personal attacks. He stepped wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over the line with the publishing info about Iwog's wife. Shrek was the very definition of an internet troll, but he lacked the ability to comprehend this fact. We've had months of having to endure Shrek's personal attacks, hijacking every thread to insert his hatred of President Obama, his perception of "liberals," and his portraying himself as a victim. If you're going to defend him, be prepared to bear the brunt of some anger. I do find it ironic that Shrek discussed patnet with you at length (in the real world); it appears that he blurred the line between what happens on the interwebs and real life. MarsAttacks! says But Shrek did use it in a vicious manner, I think. Yep, that says it all.

29. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,498 comments

    77   12:32pm Sat 24 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   I miss shrek. Dueling with shrek was like shooting rabbits with a cannon. Almost too easy. Now I will have to engage with people who are smarter (that would be almost anyone) and where I actually have to think first.

30. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,982 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    78   12:50pm Sat 24 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says I miss shrek. Dueling with shrek was like shooting rabbits with a cannon. Almost too easy. Now I will have to engage with people who are smarter (that would be almost anyone) and where I actually have to think first. I'm all for beating a dead horse, if it allows for closure. Shrek wasn't stupid - it was obvious that he's functional in society. He claimed to be a programmer of some type; many people who work in the sciences lack the ability to function appropriately in the real world. If I were a professional, I would venture to guess that he has some issues dealing with people in the real world, some type of personality disorder wherein he takes a perverse joy in creating disharmony. Perhaps he's Borderline Personality disorder; I've seen two borderlines clear a room with their behaviors. But I'm not a professional therapist, so this is pure conjecture.

31. Bap33 Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 3,098 comments

    79   1:24pm Sat 24 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   shooting rabbits with a cannon would be almost impossible. You'd have better luck swatting them with the ram-rod. shooting rabbits with a Gatlin Gun ... now, that may be effective population control.

32. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,982 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    80   1:58pm Sat 24 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bap33 says shooting rabbits with a cannon would be almost impossible. You'd have better luck swatting them with the ram-rod. shooting rabbits with a Gatlin Gun ... now, that may be effective population control. Maybe it'd be more like catching gophers with M-80's. We used to do that...

33. Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq Follow Befriend 53 threads 658 comments

    81   5:19pm Sat 24 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I tip my 40 in memory of Shrekgrinch. He was a loyal water-boy for all gentlemen of stature and merit.

34. Done! Follow Befriend (4) 159 threads 2,826 comments

    82   7:34am Sun 25 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says Actually, I got one too many complaints about Shrek so I've deleted him for now. But I'm sure he'll be back in some incarnation. Then you should delete me too, then you guys can sit around Liberally glad hand each other, void of any counter points to your non sense. This thread is testament to you guys ALL OF YOU, hypercritical double standards. Patrick you send emails to folks telling them about civility and to be nice. Yet you tolerate this thread, which was started as an instigation to stir up Shrek and get a rise out of him. Now he's deleted. You guys have fun sucking each others Harry Reid.

35. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,498 comments

    83   7:37am Sun 25 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   elliemae says I'm all for beating a dead horse, if it allows for closure. I'm not beating a dead horse, I always thought shrek was hysterical. His postings were nonsense of course, but great fun to poke holes in. The man had something like 10,000 postings and managed to totally avoid presenting a single actual fact even by accident. An admirable accomplishment.

36. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    84   8:10am Sun 25 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Tenouncetrout says you should delete me too I seriously doubt anyone reads much further than the first line. Your post are generally unintelligible, drug-addled, rambling rants.

37. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,982 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    85   9:36am Sun 25 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Tenouncetrout says Then you should delete me too, then you guys can sit around Liberally glad hand each other, void of any counter points to your non sense. Shrek was a self proclaimed asshole who hijacked every thread. You post your (often unintelligible) comments without personal attacks. You don't hijack every thread, which he did. You aren't nasty, accusing, etc... Tot, you're not a troll. So far as I can tell, you're a cool guy that I'd hang out with if I were in Florida. We may not have the same views, but you understand the difference between the real world and the interwebs. If you want to leave, that's your choice - but you would be sorely missed. Shrek, on the other hand, will not. I do hope that he stays gone; if he comes back, it'd be nice if he understood the difference between conversation and trolling.

38. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,188 threads 6,158 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA

    86   10:16am Sun 25 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Yes, this thread is too much, just a personal insult. But it is funny too, IMHO. I don't really want to be a policeman/parent. I need some better kind of moderation system. bob2356 says The man had something like 10,000 postings and managed to totally avoid presenting a single actual fact even by accident. Maybe he had some facts in there, but I agree that it was really all about his hate for Obama and liberals.

39. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,982 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    87   10:32am Sun 25 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says Yes, this thread is too much, just a personal insult. But it is funny too, IMHO. It's as if some people believe it's a conspiracy. IMHO it wasn't about his beliefs, it was about his approach.

40. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,084 comments

    88   10:32am Sun 25 Sep 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says Maybe he had some facts in there, but I agree that it was really all about his hate for Obama and liberals. IT was also very much about his desire to push peoples buttons and get a reaction. I may be guilty of that at times, but only sort of. If I post something with a RELATIVELY liberal pov, it might in fact push some buttons of people like RayAmericaa, Abe or Shrek. But that's not why I post it. I'm posting it to assert a view that I believe is rational and correct, and to share it with like minded people who may appreciate it for how it frames an issue or how for facts it presents or for the kind of dark humor about our sad state of affairs economically and politically. I don't post to push the buttons of Shrek or anyone else. Shrek on the other hand truly seemed hell bent on adding a lot of teabagger Glenn Beck bs to a forum that is (or was) mostly frequented by fairly moderate individuals. (I know, I know, Bap, Tot or others will insist that we are so liberal. But then they are not willing to see how far to the right things have drifted. No amount of intelligent well backed arguments from Iwog, Troy or several others will convince them of that simple fact.)

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