WatchThe great tragedy is that it is only now after his passing that I realize how much I miss the little guy and his insane rants. Let us all bow our heads and remember the fond times we had with him. Let us remember his sacrifice, which allows us to finally understand why the number 42 is the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.
At least we can be consoled that Shrek died doing what he loved best and probably multitasking by posting on patrick.net at the same time.
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Marcus says
Which is fine. The problem for me was his basic unwillingness to discuss any point beyond a "snort-gurgle-heehee-snort-ah,screwyou" level, and his complete lack of understanding of what constitutes crossing the line between personal and public discussion standards.
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Patrick says
Patrick, why are you putting up my post as the example of personal insult? My statement may be a little bit (just a teeny tiny bit) of hyperbole, but I did say it was an admirable accomplishment. I will suitably modify my statement. Shrek never presented me with a single fact. Better?
I was the (probably the only) one that said I missed him. I never took him seriously and actually enjoyed jousting with him. I was always amused when he/she/it would present some incoherent jumble of a statement then tell everyone they had a reading comprehension problem. Very funny. I will admit the Obama is responsible for everything from the big bang to toenail fungus schtick got a little old.
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bob2356 says
You'll have to aim better. Ha!
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Patrick says
Na' I think this thread is working out fine. At least it let's people express their honest feelings.
If nothing else, this thread brings up an important question. Can liberals and conservatives constructively talk with each other in a forum? Also, can either talk with moderates without accusing the moderates of being their polar opposites?
Perhaps elliemae said it best with the animate gif of a guy banging his head against the wall. But perhaps that's the only way to tear down the walls between the left and the right.
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Patrick,
It's your field, your ball, and your game. You pick the teams and the rules. That is exactly how it should be. If Schrek don't like it, he can start Schrek.net or whatever.
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Oh, my... I disappear for a few weeks and I miss the death of my favorite cartoon character. I'll almost miss the insane borderline/antisocial rantings coupled with endless personal attacks.
Mars Attacks = Shrekgrinch
There is no doubt. People like shrekgrinch don't have friends. They have imaginary friends that are characters in their psyches whom they play when their old characters finally out-stay their welcome. The Internet is swarming with them.
My best professional guess is that people like Shrekgrinch/Mars Attacks don't function anywhere else but on the Internet. The Internet allows them enough anonymity to carry out their desire for connection that they won't get in the real world because most people won't tolerate these people in person for very long.
It's quite sad actually. These are people who have never had a secure primary attachment. There is always a vast gaping hole in their psyches that can't ever be filled.
Oh well. Make no mistake Shrekgrinch/Mars Attacks will always exist in some form on forums like patrick.net. They need these places to feel connected. They will always find their way in and will elude even the best attempts at moderation. Boundaries and limits are anathema to these people. They can't tolerate them.
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remember Sim, all there is of Shrek is words on a screen ... a made-up persona .... the creator could just as well be your best friend just having fun roll-playing ... or it could be Bill Clinton killing some time between inturns (lol) .... or, the persona could match the author to a tee .... but, at any rate, the entire blogville area is make believe.
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Hey it worked! You said Hey Patrick and I got the comment as an email.
I could ban all partisan references, but that might be too intrusive. I want people to be able to say what they mean, as long as they are polite about it.
On the other hand, I was thinking of automatically substituting words, like "my boyfriend" for "libtard", etc.
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I don't know why you guys worry and fuss over people like Shrek, I never really read his posts. Or follow them. I got a bigger rise out of responding to people responding to his posts.
He's not a very creative hater. He couldn't think of anything to call Obama but "Obambi", that got old, I'm sure he bored him self with it, he used it so many times. For example he could have alternated using "Obamadalilama" or "Ob-ba-bop-bow-ba-mow-mow-O-bop-a-ma-ma Git a job job get a job job. Sha na"
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Patrick says
LOL
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Bap33 says
Schrek.net sounds like a hacking site. Plus it appears that the domain name is already taken.
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MarsAttacks! says
Darn. I was just about thinking that Mars was not Shrek, but only Shrek would say something that self-ego-stroking.
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Conservatives destroyed this country 1995-2005.
So I'm a little sensitive about them trolling about with their victory laps now, yes.
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Tenouncetrout says
I never understood the whole Obambi term. Is it a reference to Bambi, the deer from the Disney movie? If so, how is that an insult?
If you're going to insult a politician, do it in a why that explains why your insulting him. Almost every politician, including Obama, does things that merit legitimate ridicule. So there is no need to resort to personal attacks against them.
For example, I wouldn't call Rush Limbaugh fat. I'd call him a racist, washed-out hack that licks the boots of big corporations. The fact that he's fat isn't why people hate him. Santa Claus is just as fat. But at least Santa is jolly.
[OK, yes Rush is not technically a politician, but close enough.]
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Bellingham Bob says
2000-2011 would have been my range. I though the 1990s were pretty good. Of course some of the issues plaguing America today have their roots in the 1980s and the Reagan administration, particularly the deregulation, the tax cuts for the wealthy, and the rise in the rich-poor gap.
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Bap33 says
simchaland says
Hmmm... Did I miss something here?
I think we have some agreement.
The point where we may differ is the "why" behind the creation of the character Shrekgrinch/Mars Attacks online.
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Dan8267 says
The early 1990s sucked. Things turned around in 1993, but that was largely thanks to the Fed easing:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=2rq
(blue is employment rate and red is the Fed Funds rate)
Part of the economic story of the late 90s was cheap oil and cheaper stuff from China I think. Those were nice tailwinds for the larger economy but unsustainable.
Trade with China:
1990 $15B imports, -$10B/yr balance
1995 $45B, -$33B
2000 $100B, -$83B
2005 $242B, -$200B
Trade with Japan:
1990 $90B imports, $-40B/yr balance
1995 $120B, -$60B
2000 $140B, -$80B
2005 $140B, -$80B
Mass-market PC GUI and internet jazz helped the late 1990s, but that wasn't the whole story. Behind the scenes we were being sold down the river.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=2rt
^ Financial sector debt to GDP
same graph with corporate debt in red:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=2ru
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Bap33 says
I agree, but only because I know for a fact it didn't take my being born into any high position to make this site.
There's a saying "The free press is for those who can afford one." But now that you don't need to buy printing machinery, it really is a free press at last.
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Out of all the things I posted on this site, this thread has gotten the most comments (145, er 146 including this one, so far).
There's one good thing you can say about Shrek: he certainly has brought this community together -- perhaps together as a lynch mob, but together nonetheless.
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Patrick says
OK, so if we complain enough about Iwog then you will do the same, correct?
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Obligatory:
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Iwog is frequently insulting and I have actually deleted some of his comments.
But he does present reasoned arguments, and call me a libruhl, but I am biased in favor of reasoned arguments.
Check the archive of comments for each one (see http://patrick.net/forum/users.php ).
Iwog comment usually has some fact or clear reasoning in it:
vs Shrekgrinch saying this 71 times:
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Just repeating an expression of hate over and over doesn't convince anyone of anything except that you're definitely not using reason.
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ShrekBastard says
In all seriousness Shrek, here's a bit of wisdom. Although Fox News viewers are convinced of a statement's truth the more times they hear it, those of us with critical thinking skills understand that the number of times a talking point is parroted does not affect how truthful it is.
You can repeat "the Earth is only 6000 years old" as many times as you like. That does not mean we'll reject carbon dating and accept the 6000 year figure as correct.
Instead, what we want to hear is evidence that your statement is correct rather than "you're a libruh if you don't accept this". Do you understand what I am saying?
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I have nothing constructive to say on this topic so I will offer some advice.
Moneyworth's 2012 Financial Predictions Underclass Make Over Edition:
Invest in a good old fashioned calculator in 2012. Enter in the two digits that make up your entire net worth. Multiply by 0.001. That will be your new net worth by the end of 2012. Special note for Americans whose net worth begins with this symbol "-". You should divide by 0.001 to get your final end of 2012 net worth.
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Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq says
You're assuming a non-negative net worth to start with! Most Americans probably don't meet that criteria.
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Dan8267 says
See my special note, dear sir. You are not the first American to be confused by mathematical symbols such as "-". I suspect you merely overlooked my imperative.
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ShrekBastard says
Ugh. This is exactly what I meant. Instead of presenting a logical, fact-oriented argument to demonstrate or refute a point, you take the conversation into a whole different, and often irrelevant, direction that does not relate to the issue at hand. Then when we refute your position or correct it so it is aligned with history, you just say we're full of shit.
For example, yes it is true that prior to the 1960s the Democratic party was a bunch of racists. But in 1960s the two parties reversed rolls as all the racists went into the Republican party. That doesn't mean all Republicans are racist, but it does mean that most racists are Republicans. Today's Republicans are not the party of Eisenhower or Lincoln. If they were, it would be a much better party. Similarly, the Democratic party isn't what it was in the 1950s either.
Now I don't know what percentage of Republicans are racist. I suspect it's a minority, but the ones that are racist are the most vocal. They are the Tea Party members holding up signs like this:
But to get back to the point, you see that I've explained why Democrats are no longer the party of racism, even though they used to be, and I've shown why the Tea Party is racist with visual evidence. Evidence and reasoning are the keys to making a successful argument.
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Btw, I've already given my list of 10 reasons why Obama is a bad president. But my list has nothing to do with the type of crap that the Tea Party spouts. There is no excuse for holding up a sign like the one above. And I say that as someone who does not and has never supported Obama. The difference between Shrek and me is that I have legitimate complaints about Obama's policies whereas Shrek just hates that a Democrat, any Democrat, is in office.
If you can't say bad things about both parties, and even good things about a few (albeit very few) members of each party, then you're probably just a bigot.
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I've never been to a clinic but I see the above as an unnecessary privilege for the underclass and their "clinics". I own three witchdoctors myself and they routinely cure me of the taint of evil spirits. I hardly see the underclass mastering the mystic arts to the degree they would need protection from Demon Imps.
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Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq says
Ah, yes I did overlook your imperative. I got distracted by one of Shrek's comments.
In correction, I do believe your mathematical model for negative net-worth individuals, or rather riffraff, is quite accurate, old chap. Well done, indeed. Jolly good sport.
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Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq says
Strangely, I usually go to the doctor to cure my taint of evil spirits.
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Dan8267 says
I disagree, well with the part about a minority of Republicans being racist. I agree with the whole 60s party switch.
I disagree because everyone is racist to some degree, Democrats, Republicans, white, black it does not matter. There is ample sociological evidence that the nature of people is to be racist. It is natural to show a bias towards people that look like you, even if you don't "hate" those that don't. There might be very few people that are truly not racist, but they are the exception not the rule.
I think that it is more a discussion about degree. In the US the south has always been more extreme in it's racism. It is much better, but even today the south is very racist compared to the rest of the nation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/magazine/28Alabama-t.html?pagewanted=all
The "solid south" has always seemed to vote against the party that most recently advocated major changes in racial equality.
After the Republicans freed the slaves the south voted Democratic for generations until...
In the 60s the Democrats pushed for equal rights, and the south started voting Republican.
If the Republicans did some large racial equality push I would wager that the south would become Democratic again, or perhaps the Tea Party would become a viable 3rd party with the whole of the south behind it.
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This is why it's impossible to have a productive conversation with you Shrek. First, the fact that you think I'm a part of "the left" shows you have no comprehension of my actual political philosophies. Remember, I posted the list of the 10 reasons that Obama was a bad president. That alone should show I'm not a leftist or a Democrat fanboy.
Second, you always insist that people have to 100% agree with every crazy thing that comes out of your mouth or they must be 100% against everything you say. This is not how real people work. It's not a freaking war between you and everyone else. Try to find some common ground for once.
Third, even when a person partially agrees with something you say, you insist that you must have "trick them" into contradicting themselves. Ugh. This just makes it hard to agree with you on the rare occasions you say something sensible.
Finally, you take any disagreement to be cause for belligerence instead of resolution. This kind of uncompromising behavior is not commendable. It's the kind of childish behavior that Congress has recently demonstrated much to the angst of the entire U.S. population.
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leoj707 says
I would say that there is ample evolutionary evidence that humans are inherently groupist. Racism is just one arbitrary way of forming groups. However, there was a study that showed even if you randomly assign people into one of two groups, they will come to dislike the other group.
So I'd say it's human nature to form first, second, and even third order coalitions in order to defeat other coalitions. The basis of those coalitions is not so much important as the fact that they are used to steal resources from others.
There is also evidence that chimps and dolphins can form higher order coalitions. Perhaps chimps and humans evolved this ability form a common ancestor, but the fact that dolphins also do this suggests convergent evolution, which in turn, suggests that the formation of such coalitions and the associated groupism is an important strategy for acquiring scarce resources.
As such, even if racism never existed, some other form of groupism would take its place. Perhaps classism, religious sectism, musical preferencism. It doesn't matter. Just as long as a coalition can be form and it is profitable to use that coalition to take resources from others.
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Dan8267 says
Remember shrek's goal is to:
Shrek-MarsAttacks! says
Not too have a productive conversation.
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p.s. Nationalism (or patriotism) is just another form of groupism.
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leoj707 says
Why does that sound perverted?
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Dan8267 says
Hmmmm, I guess this brings the thread full circle...
Dan8267 says
Maybe posting on Pnet is not so much multitasking for shrek, but in "support" of doing what he loved best. Perhaps on that fateful day he had derailed 42 threads, and "had his fun with them".