Fri, 30 Sep 2011, 9:23am PDT
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Dan, you are a great writer and a bad liar.
Once again, Bap33, you demonstrate a complete inability to follow even the simplest logical sequence. The statement "I was raised Catholic and taught by viscous Catholic nuns who would beat you with a ruler if you misbehaved" does not imply that I was beaten with a ruler. I could have been one of the boys who did behave after seeing someone else misbehave. We "elitist" can learn from other people's mistakes.
Are you trying to parody the square root of two example conversation?
You should take a job getting paid by the word ... like a lawyer. That fibbing ability and anti-God thing works well with lawyering too, don't it?
INTJs do make great lawyers. However, many of us including myself are repulsed by the field because of all the scumbags in it.
I see you're still sticking with the whole "anti-god" thing. Was my post too long for your attention span? Did you stop reading when I started to use "big words"? Btw, spouting religious crap is more likely to help a lawyer than hurt him in our country. There's an old tale... A criminal standing trial tries to persuade the court to be lenient by claiming "I found Jesus." The judge asks the defendant, "when did you find Jesus?" He replies, "Right after the police found me!" [No one claims to be an atheist to garner sympathy from an American court or jury.]
I will concede that being able to lie convincingly is a trait well exercised by lawyers. Unfortunately, I never did develop that particular talent. As a result, I probably wouldn't make it in a legal, sales, or marketing position, and I certainly will never become a CEO of a major company. The good thing about being an engineer is that I don't have to lie to do my job. I talk to computers all day.
By the way, humilty is not your strong point is it?
False humility is not. As an INTJ, I know exactly what fields I'm an expert in and which ones I am not. You touchy-feely types tend to think you're an expert in everything and so you express incorrect ideas in every field. INTJs tend to ask questions in fields in which they are not experts and share knowledge in the fields in which they are. INTJs love sharing knowledge and understanding.
To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness", of self-confidence. This self-confidence, sometimes mistaken for simple arrogance by the less decisive, is actually of a very specific rather than a general nature; its source lies in the specialized knowledge systems that most INTJs start building at an early age. When it comes to their own areas of expertise -- and INTJs can have several -- they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know.
Others may falsely perceive the INTJ as being rigid and set in their ways. Nothing could be further from the truth, because the INTJ is committed to always finding the objective best strategy to implement their ideas. The INTJ is usually quite open to hearing an alternative way of doing something.
By the way, spelling is not your strong point is it?
Well, I should be nice and thank you for the compliment "you are a great writer", assuming it was meant sincerely. It's the first correct thing you said. So as a peace offering, I'll give you a sincere and valuable piece of advice. The way to become a good writer is to become a good reader.
Though in the future u may want to avoid things like "they believe in things like torture. "
I really wish I could, but when the majority of Republicans believe in torture, I cannot. "A time comes when silence is betrayal." - MLK, Jr.
It's really sad that in the 21st century, we still use medieval justice.
when u say smart people know religion is crap u imply that the no intelligent person is religious
Ok, maybe I could phrase that better. Most intelligent people reach the conclusion that religion is crap. There is a strong correlation between atheism and intelligence and between atheism and education. Some highly intelligent are religious even today. I do not understand how. They must compartmentalize like crazy to hold two contradicting beliefs at once. Physics and biology leave no room for a god in nature.
Bellingham Bob says
Well, we INTPs know that precision is for self-delusion.
Luckily INTPs rarely become heart surgeons. Precision is what got us to moon. Precision is what allows us to run a world-wide banking system over the Internet that involves billions of dollars of transactions a second without losing a penny.
Lack of precision causes rovers to crash in to Mars, police to break into the wrong house using a search warrant with an incorrect address (which happens surprising often), the Pentagon to lose $2.3 trillion — that's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America.
Meanwhile, online banking software handles far more money than that and keeps track of every penny. Precision is necessary for our modern society and economy to function. Aren't you glad that we programmers are precise?
Of course, none of this should be construed as a put down of INTPs. They make great scientists. Albert Einstein and Charles Darwin were INTPs.
Damn Dan! That was an epic post.
Thanks. I'm no Charlie Sheen, but I like to think I have house-cat blood.
Dan, I am not a fan of the super long posts, but yours was well worth the read.
Thanks for staying up late.
Also, thanks. It's nice to know that some people get what I'm saying. I usually only hear from the ultra-cons.
No, it's just the MySQL "text" type. Don't even know how much that can hold.
The VARCHAR(MAX) type is a replacement for TEXT. The basic difference is that a TEXT type will always store the data in a blob whereas the VARCHAR(MAX) type will attempt to store the data directly in the row unless it exceeds the 8k limitation and at that point it stores it in a blob.
Stackoverflow is great.
He's arguing from an emotional level of dislike, where facts are irrelevant... But pissing you off does make him feel better about himself, so one point for Bap33. He did what he intended to do.
True, but my goal is to demonstrate to everyone else that Bap33's position is wrong on many levels. I know that convincing him of the truth is a fool's errand, but the argument may convince others not to go down that path. I'd consider that a victory.
I'm going to the library now and I'm going to get "The Hidden Injuries of Class". I think that's where almost all the right-wing hate comes from.
What's a library? Some kind of brickware version of Google?
elitists that have not had a tuff life think they are in that spot because they are super smart?
The correlation between education and atheism is because science provides answers to questions like where did human beings come from. Those who lack a scientific education often fill the void with mysticism. That's why most religions were started in antiquity. Gods were the only way to explain why things like earthquakes happen. Today we have Plate Tectonic Theory.
"However, my view of college is that it's nearly worthless."
He uses a personal example to back up the view
So I used a personal example to explain my personal view of college. Yeah, that makes no sense.
The point of my statement was that Bap33's assertions of my worldview were incorrect. I was not making the point that college is worthless to all people; that's why I said "my view of college" rather than "college is...". And I conclude with "I don't have a particularly high opinion of college", the keyword being "opinion". Once again, you are taking the things I say out of context.
I could go into more detail about who I think college is beneficial for and who it isn't, but there's no reason to discuss that here. The whole point of bringing up my views on college was to disprove Bap33's assertion of what those views were. If Bap33 claimed that I liked to kick puppies, I'd deny that too. I'm very anti-"kicking puppies".
ulta conservatives: after the talk about america sux... "Again, you like other ultra-cons here have consistently tried to force words down other people's throats. Since you cannot address the arguments we actually made, you try to trick people into thinking we made weaker and dumber arguments. "
here again he uses the logic that ALL conservatives who cant argue their point lie, manipulate and trick people to make the other person look bad. he implies that liberals would NEVER do that and are above such things.
1. No, I'm not arguing that all conservatives use that deceptive tactic. I'm implying that all you ultra-conservatives posting in this thread use that tactic, a case than seems well-supported by this thread. The half-dozen ultra-cons here hardly represent all of the 100 million or so conservatives in our country, although they may represent a lot of them. I'm not going to guess here how many conservatives are ultra-cons. I only hope that it's a minority.
2. Ironically, you have demonstrated the very use of this tactic in refuting the truthfulness of my accusation that you use this tactic. I'd like to make a real-world analogy that demonstrates how ridiculous this is, but I can't think of anything so ludicrous off the top of my head.
3. I have never implied that liberals never use this tactic, although I will go on record as stating it doesn't seem to be their go-to tool like it is for ultra-cons. Note "ultra-cons", not all conservatives.
4. When and if a liberal does use that tactic on someone (myself or anyone else) and I read it, I'll call that liberal out for it. Hell, I've called out people for flawed logic even when they are supporting my position. To me, it's not about being right, it's about being right for the right reasons. The thought process is more important than the actual conclusion.
5. Although left-wing politicians play many of the same political shenanigans as right-wing ones, the left-wing does not have an extremist subgroup that is anyway on par with the right-wing. MSNBC is not a liberal mirror image of Fox News as shown in the post Video demonstrates: Obama is Bush, But MSNBC is not Fox.
MSNBC certainly has a liberal bias, but it doesn't not make up falsehoods and spread them. Something like 50% of Republicans are Birthers! Here and here. This lie was made up on Fox News, and it has been a needless distraction from the real issues like the economy and all the wars we're fighting.
it ultimately comes down to Dan is able to write better and mask the insults why Bap just flat out states it.
Actually, the difference is that Bap33 tries to insult the messenger whereas I insult the message itself as being ridiculous. And then I show precisely why it is. I have no problem leaving the messenger go unscathed as long as he doesn't directly attack others.
Both are direct insults on each other but to me calling one person a liar/copycat
I didn't take being called a copycat as an insult. Sure I joked about it, but that was clearly in jest.
As for being a liar... A liar is someone who deliberately states a falsehood as a truth when he knows it is not. I actually believe everything I'm saying. Sure, you could argue that I'm wrong -- and I may very well be -- although I have yet to read one rational argument to suggest that. However, if you did present a rational case for my conclusions being incorrect, as a cliché of an INTJ my anal retentive mind would force me to correct or abandon my conclusions no matter how emotionally attached to them I am, which is probably not at all.
For example, evolution... It is said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. When Darwin first presented the Theory of Evolution, it was indeed an extraordinary claim. What followed is a hundred and fifty years of extraordinary proof in the form of fossils, footprints, real-time observation of evolution in fast-reproducing microbes, and ultimately genetics. Given all of this, it is now an extraordinary claim that Evolution does NOT explain all of biology. Of course, you could in principle convince me that evolution is wrong, even fatally so. But in order to do so, you need to explain why the plethora of evidence supporting evolution is wrong, and that is not going to be an easy task.
Similarly, you could very well convince me that Einstein was off his rocker when he published the Theory of Relativity. However, you would have to explain why we have observed gravitational lensing and time dilation and why our GPS works far more precisely and accurately with Einstein's equations and not Newton's.
You could even convince me that your god exists. Just have him stop by my place for a cup of tea and a nice chit-chat. He seems to have chit-chatted with mortals a lot during the Bronze Age.
Btw, I can walk on water because I know how to turn it into a non-Newtonian fluid. Does that make me a god, too? I can also fly, but I don't like to because the TSA are a bunch of perverted assholes. Also, my voice can carry clear across the world, but sometimes I get charged for roaming. Now I can't raise people from the dead, but I really should learn to do this. I've just been too busy to take a class in CPR, although that's really not a good excuse.
And though most of the Tea Partiers have not lynched in their life, they come from the culture that did lynch, and it is that culture which drives their hate-filled politics.
flat out implies that MOST Tea Party members WOULD participate in a lunching if they could, as they are hate filled in their politics.
In absolutely no way does the statement "Tea Partiers come from a culture that lynched" imply the conclusion that "MOST Tea Party members WOULD participate in a lynching, nonetheless a lunching." That's just bad math, and I find bad math offensive. Also, I have no problems with the Tea Partiers lunching. I rather enjoy a picnic myself.
The correct conclusion is in my original statement. The culture that led to the lynching of African-Americans continues to drive its people to hateful and xenophobic politics. And this point is well-supported by the whole immigration debate. The Tea Party really doesn't like Mexicans.
Now I don't want to even open the whole can of worms that is immigration reform. That would just drive a further wedge between the left and right here. So let me nip this in the butt before Bapp33 or someone like him starts calling me "pro-illegal immigrant". I am NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT for high levels of immigration into the U.S. I want the population of the U.S. and the world to stop growing because I fear that the exponential explosion of the population that we are seeing will inevitably lead to a sudden decline, i.e., massive death on a level never before seen in human history, when we quickly run out of various resources. But that's a whole other issue we're not getting into here.
As Dan implies that, at best Dan isnt being truthful in his representation of the tea party, at worse he is a flat out liar who seeks to degrade the reputation of a whole group of people.
See, this is exactly why I hate English and other "natural" languages. You can get away with making statements that wouldn't even compile, nonetheless run without throwing an exception, in a real language like Java or C#. I've read more coherent statements in Perl, the only language that looks the same before and after RSA encryption.
I might have gotten a little too geeky on the last paragraph. My apologies.
One must have faith in order to believe in a religion.
Faith is belief without proof. That's the problem I have with it. Belief without proof is not a good thing, especially when the thing being believed is something arbitrary that you just happened to be born into, and especially when that belief has been the basis for many wars and murders throughout history.
It is wrong to believe in anything that cannot in principle be proven because truth and provability are logically equivalent. I'm not even going to try to show why this is true because it is way over the level of logic that people would follow here. The logic that I've presented so far has been relatively easy stuff. The truth equals provability discussions get into Alan Turing and Kurt Gödel territory, and that is some really hard shit. I mean, these are people who make me look dumb. I'm smart enough to understand their work, but not smart enough to teach it.
alot of the subtly weaved into Dans writing that really are an attack on not only how i view things but me as a person for even viewing those things that way.
I may be good at writing, but I'm not that good. If I were, I'd make a lot of money writing Pulitzer Prize winning novels. I'm simply not talented enough in writing to pull that off.
same thing is true of atheism. sorry for hitting you with logic in less than 5,000 words.
This is not logic. This is an assertion. Logic, whether correct or flawed, is a sequence of statements following a cause and effect pattern. A implies B, B implies C, therefore A implies C. There are actual rules of logic that are well known and can be easily looked up. But all logic is going to involve at least two statements. That's what logic does. It combines two statements known to be true by some rule known to be correct and results in a new statement known to be correct. Clearly an assertion, even if it were true, would not meet this description. I really don't understand why you are struggling with this concept. Did you hate your math classes growing up?
Sorry for hitting your response with more than 6 words.
You should apologize to Bap33 for hitting his response with words that have more than 6 letters.
Ok, that was a direct insult. My bad, but I couldn't resist.
OMG! Shrek is dead!
This thread started out being about Shrek and ended up demonstrating the fundamental differences between the left and right wings. Now I didn't really want to bring out the big guns, because doing so is probably going to upset some people, but I see no way to resolve this thread other than to be painfully honest. [Yes, until now, I've been going easy on the ultra-cons.]
The fundamental difference between the left-wing and the far-right-wing (and no, I don't including all conservatives in that, just the extreme ones) is that the left-wing uses logic, facts, and empirical verification to determine whether or not something works, whereas the far-right-wing uses faith, emotions, and cultural beliefs. One side uses science, the other uses tradition. Science advances and constantly refines itself as it is a self-correcting mechanism. Tradition does not do either.
And although none of us wants to admit this, the fundamental difference is due to biological differences between the ultra-right-wing and the rest of humanity. You see, the ultra-right-wingers have a different brain than the rest of us. This has been scientifically proven.
MRI study suggests liberal brains understand complexity, conservative minds are associated with anxiety and fear:
Using data from MRI scans, researchers at the University College London found that self-described liberals have a larger anterior cingulate cortex–a gray matter of the brain associated with understanding complexity. Meanwhile, self-described conservatives are more likely to have a larger amygdala, an almond-shaped area that is associated with fear and anxiety.
Study: Conservatives have larger ‘fear center’ in brain:
A study at University College London in the UK has found that conservatives' brains have larger amygdalas than the brains of liberals. Amygdalas are responsible for fear and other "primitive" emotions. At the same time, conservatives' brains were also found to have a smaller anterior cingulate -- the part of the brain responsible for courage and optimism.
If the study is confirmed, it could give us the first medical explanation for why conservatives tend to be more receptive to threats of terrorism, for example, than liberals. And it may help to explain why conservatives like to plan based on the worst-case scenario, while liberals tend towards rosier outlooks.
In summary, ultra-right-wingers are dumb cowards. There is no politically correct way to express this truth. We can explain why this is so, and we can try to help those people get over this defect, but only if those people want our help.
It makes sense that some people with have larger fear centers. It was an evolutionary advantage back in the Stone Age. It kept people from being eaten by lions and bitten by poisonous snakes. But we don't live in the Stone Age anymore. Those disproportional instinctive fears are now manifested as irrational fears about terrorism, Mexicans, gays, and other such conservative issues.
Having fear is a good thing. It's nature's way of making sure you don't do something stupid that gets you killed. However, in the modern world, a person must use frontal lobe thinking to distinguish rational fears from irrational ones. The fact is you are far more likely to be killed in an automobile accident than by a terrorist. You should fear Toyota more than Al Qaeda. But you don't because your Cro-Magnon 1.0 brain was evolved to deal with hunter-gather living and hostile neighboring tribes rather than the reality of modern living.
The good news is that you can override your base instincts with higher-level thinking. The bad news is that you have to want to.