WatchSo with the new pricetag of LA -> SF rail being $100B+, I was curious if the money could be spent better for subway systems for each major city instead.
Here's how Tokyo's rail system would look overlaid on Fresno:
(the white loop line is the Yamanote, which basically defines the urban core of Tokyo)
Subway for Fresno would be pretty easy, just fill in the grid, but the damn city's so spread out that it would be a lot of line.
Bedrock is apparently 1000' or more down so that wouldn't be a problem at least.
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Wouldn't that be even more expensive, though?
I've got no evidence. Just curious.
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Bellingham, WA
Yeah. LA's subway was very costly to construct.
Fresno's just too spread out for subways to work -- the east-west axis is 15 miles wide at its widest.
Next best thing would be a city bus system that ran every 10 minutes.
The shittiness of public transit in this country is a national shame.
I feel so sorry for the carless these days, you have to wait 30 minutes just for the damn bus to come.
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Baltimore, MD
Bellingham Bill says
It's really all about creating temporary, union construction jobs at the taxpayer's expense, not about making it easier to get from SF to LA.
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zzyzzx says
Seems like it's always just about the money, not about the nation as a whole.
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Bellingham Bill says
Even the same report that says it will be $98.5B says that it would cost more for the alternative (and of course that running it will be profitable even with its very conservative ridership predictions):
The US Council of Mayors calculates a $10B benefit for Los Angeles alone from HSR. Statewide benefit could easily be 2.5-3X that. I don't see any reason the California economy wouldn't see its cost as a rounding error considering how productive it is (http://www.cahsrblog.com/2011/11/passenger-rail-is-inherently-political/).
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@Bill (Troy)
Great map!
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elliemae's website
FortWayne says
yep, these states aren't really too united these days.
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Davis, CA
Bellingham Bill says
Subways ordinarily do not contend with traffic, most systems have a sign on the platform that can display arrival time of next train.
Buses are not ANY kind of a substitute for a good subway or elevated train IMO.
How about, they just make it possible to take Amtrak into downtown San Francisco? That'd be awesome.
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Los Angeles, CA
This makes no sense as the poor and homeless wont need to 'vacation in SF' via public transit. These are people I see using public transit in LA.
If you don't own a car in CA you are either poor or you belong to a niche religion and are trying to 'reduce your carbon footprint' but really even those people dont want to take a train they want to take a bicycle.
So who is this for? (answer has to be for union jobs)
At any rate this is a better use of money than bombing the desert in Iraqistan and putting our troops in air conditioned tents. (man what a great adventure they must be enjoying these last 10 year of unlimited spending/bombing...must be nice)
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Vicente says
That's in BART's 50-year plan theoretically. They mention building a 4-track tube into SF, of which 2 tracks would be BART and 2 would be regular rail (high speed + Amtrak I'd assume).
PockyClipsNow says
That's silly. I own a car and I would certainly rather take HSR to LA rather than deal with air travel (and the TSA Grope-o-Scope) for this short a distance. The HSR project has little to do with whether or not people own a car.
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We could have bullet trains and subways, if the politicians didn't spend so much time selling a load of bullshit along with it.
We should have $1.00 gas, juicing an economy that could then be taxed and they would not miss a cent. But nooooooooooO!
We gotta politicize Oil, and concoct ways to gouge people for it. So all of the great progressive modern ideas have been co-opted into this massive con job. And make no mistake as long as the Oil companies are having month over month record profits and can afford to pump next months contracts to justify high gas prices.
They will use those billions in profits a month into buying every son of a bitch in Washington to sell Wolf tickets about it, while blaming others for reasons for it not being so.
Bring back $30 Oil and it would have the effect the equivalent of every economic stimuli measure since Bush Sr. with in two quarters. That is how bad Oil if fucking not only us, but the whole world.
My Sister and Brother inlaw are merchant marines, they were both telling me about being on tankers full of Oil. And being sent from port to port, where they could not unload because they were full. In the meantime, the owner of the contents would be selling it to someone else. So before the itinerary of where and when they would off load the Oil could negotiated, the Oil would be sold to another company. And headed to another port, where the Oil could not be received.
This is why Gas if flat or falling, while Oil is still going up, we've got an over supply. Sell us a Subway, when they're not selling us Bullshit. Until then it's just more lies.