A few good men. Senators who voted against NDAA (or abstained)


By Dan8267   Follow   Wed, 4 Jan 2012, 6:26pm   4,894 views   52 comments
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NAYs ---13

Cardin (D-MD)
Coburn (R-OK)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Durbin (D-IL)
Franken (D-MN)
Harkin (D-IA)
Lee (R-UT)
Merkley (D-OR)
Paul (R-KY)
Risch (R-ID)
Sanders (I-VT)
Wyden (D-OR)

Not Voting - 1
Moran (R-KS)

That's 6 Republicans, 6 Democrats, and 1 independent voting in favor of Western Civilization. 1 Republican did not vote. The other 93 senators have no respect for your life, liberty, or rights.

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  1. uomo_senza_nome


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    1   11:07am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    Ron Paul does not ever in any way question the right of the 1% to take more and more from the 99% via non-productive ownership of everything, forever.

    I think that's because he's stuck in the ideology of free market capitalism when the reality is that such a system is a total Randian myth. Can never exist in real life.

    Patrick says

    cutting Social Security and Medicare to zero so the the poor get much poorer at the same time as the rich are getting much richer at the expense of everyone else.

    Of course. Which is why Libertarians are more dangerous. The mainstream Republicans are idiots and it is there for all to see. Libertarian idiocy is subtle, but once you analyze with facts -- it is much more clear that what they seek would be a second Great Depression and allowing the markets to self-regulate and correct themselves, pushing us back to the Gilded Age.

    While there are aspects about Ron Paul to be admired, there are also issues that he doesn't address -- which is quite glaring. I raised them here: http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1206296

  2. uomo_senza_nome


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    2   11:30am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Anonymousone says

    Ron Paul supports a true free market and a sound monetary system and opposes debt that Patrick famously say equates to slavery.

    True free market = myth (can never exist in real life -- Jon Stewart called it a pipedream in his interview with Ron Paul)

    sound monetary system = sure I'll go with that. But this can be done in many ways and I would prefer the least painful way for most Americans. Ron Paul has some outline on how he would do this (competing currencies), but stabilizing the dollar(advocated by his spending cuts) will be severely hurting the economy and could push us into another depression.

    He is with the savers, but doesn't realize that he will kill the debtors in the process.

    All debt is not slavery. There's something called marginal productivity of debt. Without a credit system, nobody can plan for their future.

    Anonymousone says

    Politicians always claim they are passing laws to create jobs and make healthcare and housing affordable. You are a fool if you still believe it. Affordability cannot be achieved by market manipulation. In fact, it is the opposite.

    Agreed.

    Anonymousone says

    The problem is not the market. It is the few who controls it and Ron Paul want to stop the bailouts of these few.

    The problem is that these few are too powerful that no matter who's in power, they always get what they want.

    Anonymousone says

    Consistency, honesty, integrity and intelligence. Isn't this want we want? Isn't this the recipe for a real and meaningful change?

    Yes, but we want policies grounded in REALITY. Where is that from Ron Paul? I've already addressed them here: http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1206296

    Anonymousone says

    Now let me hear why I should vote for the others.

  3. uomo_senza_nome


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    3   11:38am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Anonymousone says

    So who should we vote?

    I am asking - Why vote?

    A sane person would vote if they knew they have their representation in the Government (republic is the representation of the public). Tell me honestly - do we have a Government that represents the public today?

    Can we ever have it if there is no campaign finance and lobbying reform?

    Therefore, I'd heed George Carlin's advice: 'F--k 'em, I don't vote'.

  4. uomo_senza_nome


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    4   11:39am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Anonymousone says

    So reality to you is the debt-financed fantasy where the losers and corrupt are rewarded and the savers are punished?

    No, if you have read my posts for quite some time, you'd have realized by now that I vehemently oppose today's system. But the way to reform it is not through dogmatism, it is through a practical approach of recognizing the problem.

    I don't have faith that this can happen in today's politics.

  5. Anonymousone


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    5   3:49am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    It should now be evident that the Constitution is very very important and our rights and freedom should be the highest priority.

    If this is truly the case, is it possible to set aside our differences and support Ron Paul?

    I agree that he may not be the perfect candidate as we all are and you may disagree with him on other issues but the stakes are too high now.

    I hope we're not too late.

    The Last Nail - Floor Speech May 25 2011

  6. Anonymousone


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    6   3:54am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Ron Paul never fails to warn us in advance. When are we going to listen?

  7. Dan8267


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    7   7:25am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Just to clarify for the audience. Ron Paul is not a senator. The Paul (R, KY) listed above is not Ron Paul.

    Ron Paul is a representative for the state of Texas. Strangely, Ron Paul did not vote on the NDAA either way when the bill went to the floor of the House of Representatives even though he has come out against it. I'm not sure why Paul didn't cast a vote at all instead of voting against it. Anybody know?

  8. Vicente


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    8   8:26am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    Strangely, Ron Paul did not vote on the NDAA either way when the bill went to the floor of the House of Representatives even though he has come out against it.

    "I was too busy slinging mud and posturing like a loon to protect the Constitution."

    Hahahahah!

    Ron Paul voted for the AUMF after 9/11, which is the bill NDAA expands on. Sanders BTW voted against that.

    Ron Paul introduced HR3076 which would have enabled letters of marque & reprisal.

    Ron Paul is only Captain Liberty in very specific ways that fit with his ultra-right Ayn Rand worship.

  9. Dan8267


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    9   10:47am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Vicente says

    Ron Paul is only Captain Liberty in very specific ways that fit with his ultra-right Ayn Rand worship.

    Still, compared to the other numb-nuts in Congress, Ron Paul is a champion of liberty. Could we do better? Sure, but not using any of the existing politicians.

    I'd certainly trade Ron Paul in for a better champion of civil rights. Just show me one.

  10. Anonymousone


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    10   10:56am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    Ron Paul is a champion of liberty.

    No wonder even the ACLU gave Ron Paul higher marks than Obama.

    And to those spreading lies that Ron Paul didn't vote for HR 1540, here's the house record:
    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll375.xml#N

  11. Patrick


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    11   10:59am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    I agree. Ron Paul does not ever in any way question the right of the 1% to take more and more from the 99% via non-productive ownership of everything, forever.

    In fact, he would try to reverse what little brakes we have on runaway consolidation of wealth, cutting Social Security and Medicare to zero so that the poor get much poorer at the same time as the rich are getting much richer at the expense of everyone else.

    BUT he is clearly against imprisonment of US citizens forever without trial (NDAA) and extra-judicial censorship of the internet without appeal (SOPA). Is there any other candidate that would respect our civil rights?

    Without civil rights, we can never fix anything else.

  12. HousingWatcher


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    12   11:09am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Does Ron Paul really respect our civil rights?

    He is against the Civil Rights Act. And I would be willing to bet that he is against every law that bans discrimination based on race, religion, gender, age, etc. So under Ron Paul you will only get to enjoy your civil rights if you are a white male.

  13. uomo_senza_nome


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    13   11:15am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    HousingWatcher says

    He is against the Civil Rights Act. And I would be willing to bet that he is against every law that bans discrimination based on race, religion, gender, age, etc. So under Ron Paul you will only get to enjoy your civil rights if you are a white male.

    While I am inclined to think that is not the man's intent, the end result would be what HousingWatcher says here.

    While I am also inclined to think that Ron Paul never wrote the newsletters, the fact that somebody working under him thought it was a political strategy to pander racism is evident. Moreover the ghostwriter who wrote it, wrote it as Dr. Paul. Therefore, his explanations are quite lame; it feels like he wants to disavow them because there's no political majority for racism.

    Libertarianism with no consideration for practicality is insane ideology.

  14. Anonymousone


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    14   11:20am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    BUT he is clearly against imprisonment of US citizens forever without trial (NDAA) and extra-judicial censorship of the internet without appeal (SOPA). Is any other candidate that would respect our civil rights?

    Without civil rights, we can never fix anything else.

    The others claim and brag that they can create jobs, uplift the lives of the poor, etc., etc.

    Ron Paul is a physician who saved lives. He served in the military as a flight surgeon.

    Ron Paul supports a true free market and a sound monetary system and opposes debt that Patrick famously say equates to slavery. Politicians always claim they are passing laws to create jobs and make healthcare and housing affordable. You are a fool if you still believe it. Affordability cannot be achieved by market manipulation. In fact, it is the opposite.

    Ron Paul does allow people and businesses to take risks and get rewarded if they succeed but also don't get bailed out if they fail. The problem is not the market. It is the few who controls it and Ron Paul want to stop the bailouts of these few.

    Ron Paul is a non-interventionist who doesn't want to rig the economy at the guise of making your life better. He simply wants to give you freedom.

    Ron Paul's policy is a policy of ending the failed war on drugs. Ron Paul's policy is a policy of peace and respect for the Constitution.

    Ron Paul opposes SOPA and the NDAA. Ron Paul has the voting record and never flip flops whether you like his ideas or not. Ron Paul is the only candidate who opposes the Fed and has been saying the same message for decades.

    Ron Paul is the champion of liberty. Even the ACLU gives him higher marks than Obama.

    Ron Paul warned us many times way in advance about this economic mess and continues to do so while others lie that he caused it. Ron Paul has warned us in advance that our freedoms will be slowly taken away.

    Consistency, honesty, integrity and intelligence. Isn't this want we want? Isn't this the recipe for a real and meaningful change?

    Now let me hear why I should vote for the others.

  15. Anonymousone


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    15   11:33am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Thanks, uomo. So who should we vote? And why?

  16. Anonymousone


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    16   11:34am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    Yes, but we want policies grounded in REALITY. Where is that from Ron Paul?

    So reality to you is the debt-financed fantasy where the losers and corrupt are rewarded and the savers are punished?

  17. Anonymousone


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    17   11:40am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    I am asking - Why vote?

    I understand your point. It would be nice to hear the reasons why I should vote for the other candidates but many on this site seem to focus on bashing Ron Paul but never say who should we support.

  18. Patrick


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    18   11:41am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Anonymousone says

    Ron Paul is a non-interventionist who doesn't want to rig the economy at the guise of making your life better. He simply wants to give you freedom.

    Unfortunately, he does not distinguish beween income from productive work, and income from siphoning off the wealth of those who actually do productive work (via land rents, interest, capital gains, dividends, and inheritance).

    Anonymousone says

    And to those spreading lies that Ron Paul didn't vote for HR 1540, here's the house record:
    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll375.xml#N

    Thanks for that! I was confusing the Senate and House votes earlier.

    Now I see that stripping our civil rights is indeed mostly a Republican idea, but the Democrats were still in favor of such treason by a slight majority.

    Votes for bill including permenent imprisonment without trial, yes no -> %yes:

    Republican 227 6 -> 97.4% against the bill of rights
    Democratic 95 90 -> 51.4% against the bill of rights

    So I really have to give Ron Paul credit for voting against his own party on the NDAA, and on SOPA.

    Anyway, I think it's marvelously entertaining watching the mainstream the Republican establishment convulse in horror at the thought of Ron Paul getting the nomination. That alone makes it worth registering as a Republican and voting to nominate him.

  19. Anonymousone


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    19   11:43am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  
  20. uomo_senza_nome


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    20   11:44am Thu 5 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Anonymousone says

    It would be nice to hear the reasons why I should vote for the other candidates but many on this site seem to focus on bashing Ron Paul but never say who should we support.

    I can't give you any reasons to support anyone because IT DOESN'T MATTER what you do, when you can't have a say in calling the shots.

    Since you are a vehement supporter of Ron Paul (as evidenced by your numerous threads), you should recognize that there are practical issues that he doesn't address as well.

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