WatchI endorse Ron Paul for president and I even registered as a Republican to be able to vote in the California Republican Primary.
Why? Because Ron Paul is the least crazy candidate for president. Yes, he's the least crazy of all the candidates. The other candidates all:
- Push for war with Iran, using the same bogus "weapons of mass destruction" argument that Bush used in Iraq.
- Happily accept the NDAA (which Obama signed) which allows permanent imprisonment of US citizens without charges or trial.
- Have no problen with the SOPA bill, which would allow arbitrary censorship of websites and search results.
I strongly disagree with Ron Paul on health care. We need a government health insurance option because private sector health insurance fails to provide coverage for life-threatening conditions at a reasonable cost. I also strongly disagree with Ron Paul on letting the 1% extract economic rents from everyone else without doing anything productive. Ron Paul doesn't seem to notice that the American aristocracy is taking an ever-large slice of everyone else's work for themselves via non-productive ownership income like land rents, interest, dividends, capital gains, and inheritance. I say income from productive work should not be taxed at all. Instead, we should have a flat 2% tax on the value of income-producing assets.
It's now impossible to vote for Obama since he signed a law eliminating the essential rights of knowing the charges against you and having a trial. The other Republican candidates are obviously insane about Iran, the NDAA, and SOPA, so that leaves just Ron Paul as the only sane candidate.
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We already have that.
It's called the Fugitive Credit Card Law, 'discovered' by the SCOTUS.
It means South Dakota lending laws apply in California. Or New York. Or Kansas.
Of course, if States somehow found a way around it, then the Credit Card companies would just lobby the Federal Government to ban limits on interest charges on unsecured loans nationwide.
I call it so after the Fugitive Slave Law, which said states have to abide by laws made in other states when it comes to which people are free and which people aren't.
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I agree with Bellingham and Iwog (et al.).
Why is it that the Paulistas think that the "other" politicians promise the world, but never deliver? Yet, Paul will do the most magical things since Jeevus!
He is interesting, to be sure, and I hope he remains in the REPUBLICAN race...maybe even becomes the candidate. But, you can't equate that with being good for the country.
He (and the rest of the main GOP candidates) employ dog-whistles.
Why didn't Ron Paul return the money donated from Stormfront? Really? What was it, $500? He said it was better that he have the money than them...that they endorse him not the other way around. Right.
He doesn't think that blacks are "fleet-footed"? Someone stole the keys to his printing press?
He didn't vote for MLK day...on principle. He thinks the Civil War didn't need to be fought. He thinks slavery would have ended on its own, sans intervention.
I'm quite certain you can find a few of Paul's ideological twins on the CCC website.
Here's one now!:
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bob2356 says
or the UNITED States of America.
They had this debate in the early 1800s and your side lost.
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Patrick says
for one, that's a misstatement of what Congress voted into law last month.
But even if it were as you say, that would not control my vote, no.
If Americans in any number were being rounded up and thrown in camps without trial there would be a problem, but PPACA is going to improve peoples' lives tons more than this idealistic bullshit of insisting of purity trolling and requiring Obama to stand against a tide he cannot stop anyway -- the actual battles the Dems are fighting are much more important to me than this marginal BS that has wrongfully fucked up very few citizens' lives thus far.
The bottom line is that this nation is a nation of retards and you've got to govern -- and politic -- with that in mind.
Governing this nation of retards is hard enough without having to kiss the ring of the idealistic retard brigade. Obama has to win many tight races in November -- Pennsylvania and Virginia, and that dominates his policy choices now.
That's reality, and insisting you'd rather see the Republicans take over the executive if Obama doesn't make pointless stands for what you consider nonnegotiable positions is the height of black-white idealistic thinking.
The true battles is arguing to get the people on your page philosophically. The head guy running things is never going to please you 100%, you've always got to find which dominant side will do the less damage.
but doesn't prove that states' rights is a bad idea in principle.
States rights are great in theory but our patchwork of states is idiotic. Everything one says applies even more so at the county level. Why should SF county be bound by the laws of Lassen County?
The core problem with States Rights ideologues is that they do not admit the Feds have the power and responsibility to prevent a general race to the bottom.
This nation is stronger when we're all on the same page and enjoy actual portability of social goods. I am not a citizen of the State of California, I am a citizen of the United Fucking States of America. As a left-libertarian I'd like to see more localization of regulations, but states are not the right level to do that at.
This nation is too heterogenous in wealth and mindset for decentralization to work all that well. The dissents in Raich matches my arguments, so I am not 100% against "states rights" -- I think the Feds should guarantee freedom and not limit it, like what the majority in Raich unfortunately established. But for every Raich decision there is a Lawrence proving that localities can be as despotic as the Feds. Arguing people can escape local despotism is theoretically true, but the extent of our brain damage in this country means a true decentralized system would result in a Civil War-era scale of division in short order.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/313/5788/765.summary
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Bellingham Bill says
How is it a misstatement? You can indeed now legally be picked up and held in prison forever without charges or trial, even if you're a US citizen, and even on US soil.
Maybe it was done before, but it wasn't legal. Making it legal is a gigantic step toward simply locking up people who complain about, oh, I don't know, the 1% morphing into a hereditary aristocracy.
Bellingham Bill says
What number would make it a problem for you?
I don't think this is an issue of idealism. It's an issue of whether we actually have any rights at all when the 1% decides to take them away.
Bellingham Bill says
I like the idea of being able to freely vote with my feet, without a passport.
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Patrick says
This has long been the case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus_in_the_United_States#Presidential_suspension_of_habeas_corpus
Even our God-like Founding Fathers were fuckheads at times:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts
What number would make it a problem for you?
2
It's an issue of whether we actually have any rights at all when the 1% decides to take them away.
This is not a 1% issue, Patrick. 99% of this country is perfectly happy making grease spots out of alleged AQ sympathizers, citizens or no.
I like the idea of being able to freely vote with my feet, without a passport.
A lot of what you think works great for you, only. The world is a bigger place than you, and an enlightened voter must consider how one's vote affects the citizenry as a whole.
I can't get pregnant but I don't vote for people who want to limit women's access to abortion.
A potential right to smoke pot w/o fear of arrest is not worth trading someone else's right away.
Obama could not stop this shitty bill from becoming law and insisting he make a moral stand on something that is not as bad as the panic-mongers make it out to be is just retarded, as retarded as how the rest of the country generally operates day-to-day.
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Patrick says
There was no way Obama could stop this law with a veto. The forces of idiocy had the veto-proof majority in this case, and Obama sending the bill back to Congress would just open him up to further attacks from the right (after they happily overrode his veto).
Obama has enough shit to deal with from the right without having the left dump on him too.
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Bellingham Bill says
Agreed, but at least "President Thomas Jefferson denounced the Sedition Act as invalid and a violation of the constitution."
THAT'S what Obama should do. But Obama failed to do that.
Bellingham Bill says
It is exactly and only a 1% issue in reality. Al Queda is just shorthand for "anyone that threatens the ever-increasing redistribution of wealth from the 99% to the 1%."
Today they lock up some Muslims. Tomorrow they lock up you for being a Georgist.
Locking up Muslims is just practice for locking up you, the same way SOPA copyright enforcement is just practice for shutting down political websites.
Bellingham Bill says
Simply not signing an obviously unconstitutional law would have been a demonstration of integrity. He failed.
He could also get on TV and say the same thing to the whole country Thomas Jefferson said 200 years ago about the Sedition Act. That would indeed probably stop it.
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This debate is still raging? Wonderful. I'll just leave these here, without the wall of text that accompanied them the last time around.
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/12/the-ndaa-the-good-the-bad-and-the-laws-of-war-part-i/#more-4643
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/12/the-ndaa-the-good-the-bad-and-the-laws-of-war-part-ii/#more-4646
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bob2356 says
The original original intent of the founding fathers was to eliminate a monarchistic form of government completely, prohibit titles of nobility, ensure all men are created equal in affairs of government, and kill predatory corporate power as in the East India company.
The concept of states rights was critical in welding together the country and reaching a consensus on the constitution and other matters, however most of that died during the civil war. (not 50 years ago) What we've had since reconstruction is a federal government with extensive power to regulate the economy. Since almost all business is now interstate, I don't think that's unreasonable and since the United States has been so successful, it's obviously a system that works.
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The problem is we are still navigating the same political parameters we were from about 1968 onward. The current political debate is about as relevant as Rolling Stone magazine (ex-Taibbi, of course).
The two parties need to reform around different parameters:
Pax Americana vs. America at Peace
Right now we have liberal hawks and neocons dominating both parties, anything else is excluded.
Wall Street Vs. Main Street
Right now both parties are most concerned with Main Street. Trust me, both Obama and Romney will be festooned with Hedge Fund, Equity Firm, and Money Center Bank largesse.
Guns vs. Butter, esp vis a vis deficits and debt
Both parties want more of both, and haven't the slightest interest in even attempting to bridge the gap between expenditures and revenue.
Transparency vs. National Security
Both parties err on the side of the latter.
Long Term Economic Policy
Both parties are still advancing the Washington Consensus, which hasn't worked well, even for Wall Street (which needs constant bailouts to remain functional).
We need to hear a lot less about:
Abortion*
Gay Marriage*
Jesus
Yer a Socialist!
The Culture War in General
We don't have the luxury of this BS. We're having a philosophic-theological debate while the Country is collapsing.
* the demographics for these issues already determines their final outcome. The battle is lost for the conservatives here.
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iwog says
I disagree. The killer of states rights was the 17th amendment in 1912. Even at that the Federal government didn't really hit it's stride in terms of power OVER the states until the 1950's. Previously it was much more a cooperative give and take.
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edvard2 says
not a great big difference any more.
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Bellingham Bill says
You are putting an insane amount of energy into arguing against your own well being here Bob. Fascinating!
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thunderlips11 says
THat won't happen, because without the southern christian right, that was co-opted by the right wing after the civil rights movement, and who has been sold the idea that the right wing is about "family values,"....
without them the right as we know it would be dead politically, and we would probably be in WAY better shape now.
They will continue to spend billions per year on their propaganda through the very few major media companies we now have.
We'll never know how things would have worked out in a world where the Christian right (southern fundamentalists) didn't go over to the ark side. I'm sure there would have been big problems, including variations on the ones we have now. But there probably would have been less war, and innovation would have been permitted to come sooner in areas like alternative energy. (not just because of govt support ).
Who knows, maybe without the left/ right dichotomy we know, a system would have arisen (before it is too late) where one of the parties embraced the most important political values - including moderation in the influence of money and corporate power in politics.
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GameOver says
So does that mean you want to return to only allowing white male landownerst o vote? Should we return to the Alien & Sedition Act? Do you want to return to the three-fifths compromise? The founders beleived in all this garbage.
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"States' Rights" is an outdated and backwards philosophy that is merely used to hide racism. It's as simple as that. Notice how we only hear about states' rights when we have a black guy as president. Where were all the states' rights people when Bush was president? Where were they?
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HousingWatcher says
SOooooo you're saying California is the most Racist state in the Union?
California has more State laws unique to the State, that the the Federal government is at odds with, than any other state in America. And thank God for that, if every State was ran like California we would have a double D credit rating.
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I don't see California trying to get out of having to abide by federal laws. That is what states' rights is about. It's about not having to be subject to federal laws.
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JodyChunder says
He has a point though.
I find myself on both sides of this one. BB is right, but OBama and our representatives need to know how people feel about it, so the loud objections are good.
Congress is so dysfunctional. And then when it finally functions we get this. Sure, I know they say the sausage making process isn't pretty. But it would be nice if we could occasionally get some sausage that was half way decent.
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JodyChunder says
LOL. 90% of what happens in DC is against my well-being.
I am a left-libertarian and I would like to think decentralized government would work better than what we have now, but the LEFT part of left-libertarianism informs me that we'd also need some mechanism of breaking the feedback centrifugal nature (rich getting richer) of raw capitalism.
This is a bitterly divided nation, and on top of that we are largely a nation of disinformed retards.
Like I like saying, we're getting the government we deserve.
As for my own particular interests being harmed by SOPA, NDAA, PATRIOT etc -- I just don't see it. Theoretically this should be a fear for the future abuse, but a future abuser doesn't need the law to fuck us up, we'll be doing it to ourselves gladly.
In the balance of NDAA, we've also got PPACA. While far from a perfect law, PPACA will be shitloads better FOR ME than the status quo ante. Being a human being with a body that can break down, I need to carry health insurance, and PPACA addresses MY needs very well.
I won't be benefitting from the subsidized premium support business (people making over $45,000/yr won't be getting a dime of this) but this nation will be a more functional system when we have something closer to the universal coverage all other civilized nations have instituted.
In case it's not clear, I'm just as much a leftist as a libertarian. Which is why I think Ron Paul is leading a clownshow of idiocies.
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bob2356 says
16th more like. The idea that we are a confederation of independent states became fictional a long time ago.
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HousingWatcher says
HousingWatcher says
California's positions on marijauna, car emissions, water rights, disability, etc. are issues of racism? News to me. California is not trying to get out complying with federal drug laws? News to me. The state is spending an awful amount of money and time fighting something they abide by.
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Bellingham Bill says
Nope, the 16th took away proportion distribution of taxes. The 17th killed states direct representation in the Senate and the states ability to influence federal lawmaking.
No one ever said a confederation of independent states, that's your interpretation along with Iwog. From the civil war to the 20th century there were a number of supreme court decisions that actually increased states rights. The states were at least equal partners with the federal government and sometimes states were more powerful well into the early 20th century. How do you think all the racist jim crow laws stood for so long.
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Patrick says
Aside from the fact that "they" are not actively locking up "some muslims" today, there's an important thing going on here.
Republican policy is to roll back this country to the 19th century of unchecked and (just as importantly) untaxed wealth. And to do this they need to create the crisis conditions that obtain in eg. Greece right now ("Sorry Granny, no new hip for you, no money you see")
To support *any* Republican from dogcatcher on up is to vote to slit your own throat down the line (unless you think all the New Deal and Great Society stuff isn't beneficial, then more power to you).
Not that the Democrats have any active policy that's going to fix things, either, but they are not the reactionaries with the somewhat-hidden revisionist agenda here.
This NDAA thing is masterful political stratagem from the PTB, dividing the left in this country into a histrionic Alex Jones-driven faction vs. the ever so put-upon realist faction that understands the bullshit goes a lot deeper than how shittily we treat alleged AQ operatives.
Oh how I wish I had studied Swedish or Norwegian (instead of Japanese) in the 1990s. I thought Japan had its act together back then, but clearly that is not the case.
Still, I'd argue they're in better condition to get through the next three decades than the US.
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Bellingham Bill says
Uh, Gitmo? Many of those guys weren't picked up in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iraq. Quite a few were nationals of Bosnia, Egypt, and Canada and were kidnapped neither in nor around the country where the "force authorization" is in effect.
Lakhdar Boumediene, Khalil Manut, Ruhal Ahmed, Juma al-Dossary and many others were picked up well beyond Iraq or Afghanistan or its immediate neighbors and tortured for years before being released without charges.
There's the case of Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen whisked out of JFK and sent to Syria for torture. Both Administrations deceitfully maintain it was a case of "Deportation", never mind the fact that travelers transferring through an airport on a layover are seldom forcibly repatriated. Or that Arar demanded to be deported to Canada, which was the place of his current residence AND that Syria does not permit native born citizens to renounce citizenship.
Instead, he was sent to Syria, where the Evil, Tyrannical Regime there, that had formerly cooperated with us on the GWOT, but now is the target of desstabilization*, he was "Rendered".
Why can't they come up with a nicer sounding word like "Carmelized"? You know, the terror suspect was carmelized and then reduced in balsamic vinegar.
Anyway, he was eventually freed after months in a Syrian dungeon after being Carmelized, Rendered, and Reduced.
When he sued the US, Ashcroft pulled the "State Secrets" defense. Funny how a "Normal Deportation" became a "State Secret" of the highest importance.
The vaunted "Supreme Court" never heard it, because lower courts accepted the government's miserable excuse.
* Syria and Libya are lessons to other 'rogue states' - cooperate with the US, end and make amends for state terror, abandon your nuke program, and you'll still be overthrown by the US. So speed your nuke weapon program to completion!
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Bellingham Bill says
Unfortunately, trying to slow down the rate at which the car approaches the cliff will not prevent the car from falling off it.
Only aggressive efforts to salvage the US will get us back on a better path.
The fire of men like Truman and Stevenson gave us the 60s which gave us the early 70s laws that attempted to roll back the nascent Police State with restrictions on warrantless wiretapping, assassinations, and pushing for transparency. The cooperativeness of the 90s "Third Way" neoliberal democrats gave us the Police State of the Naughties.
South and Central America is littered with the corpses of liberals and moderates who tried to compromise with reactionaries to save their Republics. Their dead bodies were stepped over by those who imposed far worse regimes.
Hitler would have been broken easily had the unions struck for their rights. Instead, cooler heads prevailed-to the detriment of all Europe, not least the ordinary German.
Merely acting as the speedbump to stupidity will only get you mauled.
You don't win a war by defending, you won't stop reactionary, anti-freedom policies by attempting to water them down over and over again.
When you entertain the insane notions of reactionaries for short term gain, you get long term sorrow.
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thunderlips11 says
So you're saying the system worked, great.
I already know the Bush fuckheads did a lot of evil and stupid things in my name. My point that the Obama administration is not using the powers that Bush got to actively go "locking up" muslims.
If a future administration is going to do that, they'll be perfectly free to either use this law (that would have passed with a Obama veto anyway) or make up their own law and wait for the courts to intervene if they can.
Hitler would have been broken easily had the unions struck. Instead, cooler heads prevailed-to the detriment of all Europe, not least the ordinary German.
Yeah, well, Hitler isn't Obama. And there's a counter-example from that time that I can throw back at you -- purity trolls like you had a chance to put a "moderate" centrist into the Presidency in 1925:
Karl Jarres (conservative) 38.8%
Otto Braun (center-left) 29.0%
Wilhelm Marx (center-right) 14.5%
Ernst Thälmann (communist) 7.0%
That was the first round. Had the center and left coalitioned together, they could have had the Socialist party in the presidency. Instead, the centrists did not work together all that well and the communists rejected the Weimar system altogether (and the feeling was mutual).
The second round:
Paul von Hindenburg (right) 48.3%
Wilhelm Marx (center-right in coalition with center-left) 45.3%
Ernst Thälmann (communist) 6.4%
clarified things.
Had half the communist bloc pitched in with the centrist bloc, the centrists would have retained control of the Weimar presidency.
But that wasn't good enough for the purity trolls on the left. Within 10 years they were all in KZ or in exile, their purity intact.
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You forgot to mention that:
Canada stated that Arar was "completely innocent" and settled with Arar for 10.5 million. The Prime minister and the head of the RCMP made a public apology to him.
The US invoked to "States Secret Privilege" to deny him the ability to sue, AG Gonzale declared the US did nothing wrong, and Arar is still on DHS watchlist.
Which country do you believe did the right thing?
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Bellingham Bill says
You should get down on you knees every day and thank god that there have been purity trolls in America since the founding of the republic. They have held back the tide time and time again. Without them standing up and refusing to say "let's give a little of our rights away it will be all fine" America would have been a police state long ago.
Large numbers of people like you who simply say "it's ok it doesn't affect me" are why the purity trolls are losing this time. Don't you have any pride at all in being an American? Why aren't you and people like you willing to stand up and say "this is WRONG this is NOT what America stands for". Are you really just fine with being a citizen of a country that does evil things then denies it? All countries do evil things at times, the great ones make it right afterwards. That is the difference in pre and post 9/11 America. Don't tell me the Obama administration has cleaned up, it hasn't.
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Bellingham Bill says
Uh, they were tortured for years, and getting them released was like pulling teeth.
"Oh yeah, we imprisoned this guy for years without charges. Then once it was clear he had nothing to do with anything, we spent additional years hemming and hawing about how and when and where to release him. Finally, we released him but not others in the same circumstances. Also, we deny all compensation on the grounds of National Security. As you can see, this system works great."
Bellingham Bill says
So far, the only thing Obama has done is assassinate US citizens (and their US citizen children) with predator drones without trial. Not to mention countless innocent bystanders, including children and old people, at weddings and funerals.
In fact, the President just signed a law that mandates that Gitmo remain open and that prisoners are not transferred to any facility in the US. Nor are any allowed to be released until the Government finds another country to place them. For example, the Uighur innocents are unwelcome in China and in Limbo. I'm sure after signing the NDAA, we will see the "system works" even better than before.
If I was Obama, I'd start charging some folks responsible for torture. Not a damn thing Congress can do about it. The executive prosecutes and the judiciary runs the trial.
But then I woke up.
Bellingham Bill says
There had been plenty of center-left and center-right coalition governments in Weimar. Unfortunately, these governments treated the Right Wing nut groups too tenderly. A man like Hitler who tried to lead a violent coup should have never been released from prison. Compromise and a light hand dealing with reactionary assholes never works. If the Weimar Republic had swung Hitler from a Bavarian Lamppost, history would have been a little different. Lukewarm attitudes about freedom fuel reactionary daring.
The 1922 Kapp Putsch wasn't defeated by the Army, who refused to march against the Putch members, but by the trade unions. 1933 would have been no different.
The day before Hitler banned all Trade Unions, he invited them to all organize marches on May 1st, 1933, the usual May Day stuff.
They thought their compromising, negotiation-oriented strategy was working, then they were bitch slapped "out of blue".
Too bad they weren't more confrontational, but they were scared of seeming obstructive at the time and wanted to present themselves as reasonable organizations that could work with any political party.
As for not being able to work together, the vast majority of Weimar-era unions were organized by the SPD and the various Christian Democrats, the moderate left and right respectively.
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Bellingham Bill says
I disagree with you there. It is actually a roundabout way of damning everyone and where do you think thats gonna get ya? Some said that exact thing about the Germans during the Third Reich Bill.
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bob2356 says
HAw! It already is dummy. Do you live here?
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Anonymousone's website
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Anonymousone says
Ahhh yes, Alex Jones and Infowars.com. The perfect gathering place for nutjobs, conspiracy theorists, and other tin foil hatters.
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Patrick says
Unfortunately, the California Republican primary isn't until June 5th. The chances of Ron Paul still being in the race by then essentially zero.
Here's the link to re-register as a Democrat:
https://www.shapethefuture.org/voterregistration/default.asp
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Peter Schiff of EURO pacific capital is one of Ron Paul's economic advisers?
Oh god would we be screwed if Ron Paul actually won.
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Patrick says
+1.
And why?
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Anonymousone's website
GOP Strategist: Ron Paul Is the Only Electable Alternative to Mitt Romney:
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Ron Paul's economic plan is SPECTACULAR!