WatchI endorse Ron Paul for president and I even registered as a Republican to be able to vote in the California Republican Primary.
Why? Because Ron Paul is the least crazy candidate for president. Yes, he's the least crazy of all the candidates. The other candidates all:
- Push for war with Iran, using the same bogus "weapons of mass destruction" argument that Bush used in Iraq.
- Happily accept the NDAA (which Obama signed) which allows permanent imprisonment of US citizens without charges or trial.
- Have no problen with the SOPA bill, which would allow arbitrary censorship of websites and search results.
I strongly disagree with Ron Paul on health care. We need a government health insurance option because private sector health insurance fails to provide coverage for life-threatening conditions at a reasonable cost. I also strongly disagree with Ron Paul on letting the 1% extract economic rents from everyone else without doing anything productive. Ron Paul doesn't seem to notice that the American aristocracy is taking an ever-large slice of everyone else's work for themselves via non-productive ownership income like land rents, interest, dividends, capital gains, and inheritance. I say income from productive work should not be taxed at all. Instead, we should have a flat 2% tax on the value of income-producing assets.
It's now impossible to vote for Obama since he signed a law eliminating the essential rights of knowing the charges against you and having a trial. The other Republican candidates are obviously insane about Iran, the NDAA, and SOPA, so that leaves just Ron Paul as the only sane candidate.
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Anonymousone says
Ron Paul's economic plan is horrible.
The premise is that our economic problems are being caused by the federal debt. I would argue that doubling the national debt to $30 trillion would have little effect, and spending it into the economy might improve things a great deal.
Part of Ronald Reagan's platform for getting elected was the assertion that a $1 trillion national debt was untenable, and that double-digit inflation was being caused by reckless federal spending.
Of course that didn't stop him from tripling it during his 8 years in office, but it does demonstrate how people who claim "X national debt is too high and will destroy us" are usually full of crap.
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iwog says
that is because he is ideologically boxed into the thinking that keeps focusing on one side of the coin. Debt is both an asset and a liability. A lot of people have the nation's liabilities as their assets today.
It is shafting the creditors, which is Dr. Paul's problem.
But when you make profits growing credit, things are bound to blow up.
Practical way to relieve the pain is broad wage inflation.
http://squashpractice.wordpress.com/2011/09/12/debt-distraction/
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uomo_senza_nome says
Interesting link, thanks.
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uomo_senza_nome says
Ha! Debt is not asset. Credit/capital are assets.
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JodyChunder says
You better get on the horn to eg. Bank of America and tell them they're doing their balance sheet wrong.
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"CHOMSKY: Ron Paul's a nice guy. If I had to have dinner with one of the
Republican candidates, I'd prefer to have it with him -- but, his policies
are off the wall.
I mean, sometimes I agree with him. I think we have to end the war in
Afghanistan. But, if you look at the other policies, I mean, it's kind of
shocking and principles that lie behind them (shakes head)....I don't know
what to say about them.
In the Republican debates, at one point -- and this kind of brought out
who he is --- he is agains Federal involvement in health, in anything. He
was aked something like, "Well, what if some guy's in a comma,
and...uh...he's going to die and he never took out insurance. What should
happen?"
Well, his first answer was something like, "It's a tribute to our liberty."
So, if he dies, that's a tribute to how free we are?
He kinda backed off from that, actually. There was a huge applause for
when he said that. But later, reactions were eleswhere. He backed up and
said, "Well, the church will take care of him...or charities or something
or other....so, it's not a problem."
I mean, this is just savagery.
And it goes across the board. In fact, it goes through the whole so-called
Libertarian ideology. It may sound nice on the surface but if you think it
through, it's just a call for corporate tyranny. It takes away any barrier
to corporate tyranny.
But, it's all academic. The business world would never permit it to happen
because it would destroy the economy. They can't live without a powerful
state, and they know it."
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The GOP says
I want to put my face between California's double D credit ratings and go "blurburburburburb".
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kentm says
Hey nothing for nothing, but back when the "Baptist" owned more local hospitals than the "Memorial Health care group" in this country. Any person in any social economic standing, could afford an emergency room visit. But that was just before Bill Clinton "FIXED" health care.
And by the way, given the track record or Democrats creating a burden out of healthcare than a safety net, and given the Ron Paul would be just one measly administration. I would much prefer some adult with common sense becomes president and puts a stop to the mess this Corporate Crony circus has made.
Then MAYBE, just "maybe", more honest principled Liberals can try again later, that aren't in it to rig it for them selves and their corporate masters.
And please let's not forget, THIS administration got in there, on the merit of only "Being better than this".
Well times up, that betterment has come to pass. Ron Paul is actually better than "THIS".
TPB out to right the wrongs of our ministry of misinformation, and maligned change.
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kentm says
Yes. Besides that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul
A native of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Paul is a graduate of Gettysburg College and Duke University School of Medicine, where he earned his medical degree. He served as a flight surgeon in the United States Air Force from 1963 until 1968. He worked as an obstetrician-gynecologist during the 1960s and 1970s, delivering more than 4,000 babies, before entering politics in 1976.
IMO, that makes him way more qualified to do any type of healthcare reform than any of the other candidates or Obama.
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Anonymousone says
+1. Who does Nomograph, iwog, and uomo_senza_nome advocate for president in 2012? I look foward to seeing your answers. Give us a name. And then give us three reasons for your answer.
Otherwise, your IP addresses should be banned, IMO.
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Bellingham Bill says
Hey, you don't get it!
Now it's the government who decides if you are a member of Al Qaeda or any other organization. Neither you nor any law wil have a voice in these decisions.
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michaelsch says
Does the NDAA authorize the indefinite detention of citizens?
No, though it does not foreclose the possibility either. Congress ultimately included language in the NDAA expressly designed to leave this question untouched–that is, governed by pre-existing law, which as we explain below is unsettled on this question.
. . .
In 2004, the Court held that (i) the government’s authority to detain under the AUMF at least included armed members of the Taliban captured in Afghanistan (at least so long as fighting continued there), (ii) citizenship was no bar to detention in that circumstance, and (iii) citizenship did, however, entitle a detainee to a fair opportunity to contest the factual claims asserted by the government in support of detention.
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/12/ndaa-faq-a-guide-for-the-perplexed/
NDAA is just Republican bullshit intended to fracture the left's caucus -- either Obama opposed what 90%+ of this country wants -- a "tough guy" approach to AQ suspects -- or he pisses off the 5% of electorate that goes with Alcoa for its headwear needs. The strategy is working reasonably well; if you think seeing Obama lose in November is going to increase your personal security, you are a fucking idiot of the first water.
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Jason M. says
The second paragraph is nominated for the stupidest things written on Patrick.net.
In reply to your question, Obama is the obvious choice for the 2012 election. I can list a dozen reasons why I don't like Obama, and on every point the entire Republican field is worse. (excepting Ron Paul)
Ron Paul is unacceptable for the reasons I detailed. He might be a good guy, he might have some good libertarian values, but his fatal flaw is a belief in the raw sewage written by Ayn Rand. There is no such thing as a benevolent free market. A laissez faire system is brutal, exploitative, and hostile to democracy. If anyone wants to see an armed American socialist movement in 10 years, vote for Ron Paul.
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iwog says
Not sure it would take 10 years. A Ron Paul Presidency with Republican control of congress would pretty much enshrine all the really bad Republican/Paulian ideas of economic and tax policy, destroy the social safety net and yet would not enact any of Paul's good ideas regarding civil liberty. He might get us out of Afghanistan some faster than Obama, but IMO we are on our way out. With the public against further involvement that war is unsustainable. If Republicans control the Senate, House and Presidency they will ditch the filibuster or change it so they can push though their agenda (definitely have more balls than the Dems), this IMO would generate widespread violent social unrest.
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Jason M. says
I agree with iwog on the "stupidest things on Patrick.net" nomination, but there are some very tough ones Jason would be competing with. There's a lot of stupid things here :)
I have already replied to this question multiple times.
I believe corruption is deep rooted and legalized in the United States and it is a banana/broken Republic.
So it really doesn't matter who you vote for, I don't see the Status Quo changing meaningfully.
I am with Mr. Genius Carlin in that - There's no point in voting.
As for Ron Paul, I addressed some issues about him in this thread:
http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1206296
I never received any satisfactory answers from Ron Paul supporters against what I stated.
Moreover, there are problems with pure libertarianism. In a complex system such as human interaction, there are situations where common good wins over individual preferences. Libertarianism doesn't take Game Theory and Public Property into account, therefore not a holistic answer to society's problems.
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uomo_senza_nome says
Note that Iwog can't think of three specific reasons to vote for Obama. How convenient for him. No one can challenge his views this way. He'll attack your views (and you, personally) all day long though. What a guy, huh?
Same thing for uomo_senza_nome . He will attack your views (and you, personally) all day long. He won't take a stand of his own, though.
Does something seem fishy to you? Something seems fishy to me. How many hours do these guys spend attacking, without ever taking a stand of their own?
Who would like to see some IP addresses banned?
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Anonymousone's website
Please visit http://www.ronvsmitt.com
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JodyChunder says
wtf?
Debt and Credit are the same word, Credit is just a nice way of saying debt. Why do banks push credit cards down your throat? banks earn interest by enabling people to consume now and earn interest on their future labor.
Capital is the same as savings (deferred consumption) and what are we saving in today? Dollars. Capital becomes credit through Fractional reserve banking, when you deposit it in the bank.
Essentially, your statement is saying the same thing that I am saying, except in a circular fashion.
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Jason M. says
For a guy incessantly talking about Fabian Socialism, Gaia movement and what not - everything will seem fishy ;).
Even after stating in plain English terms why I think a public vote doesn't matter a squat, if you can't understand this: I can't help you.
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Can someone please explain to me how a "libertarian" can be anti-abortion?
Will someone at one of these endless republican debates please ask him this?
Is anything more personal than the relationship with your doctor? And he thinks the gov't should regulate that? Would he be ok if the gov't said you couldn't get a vasectemy? I doubt it.
"Liberty" for 1/2 the population is good enough I guess?
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If you think that whatever makes human beings special attaches at conception, then you are either anti-abortion or a sociopath. It's not an intrinsically ideologically aligned issue.
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Jason M. says
I missed the second part of your question, which is odd because you're so agreeable........
Now I'm going to watch and see if you actually attack my views, or if you were just writing bullshit.
1. Obama will presumably nominate someone to the Supreme Court who doesn't buy into the idiocy of corporations having the same rights as people. I base this on the fact that there are currently 5 Republican nominated assholes who have voted FOR corporate constitutional rights and 3 Democrat nominated patriots (and 1 Republican nominated patriot) who have voted AGAINST corporate constitutional rights. There are a number of decisions I can point to, but the main one is of course Citizens United.
2. Obama will not support and will presumably veto tax cuts for the richest Americans. Although he has unfortunately extended several tax cuts for the rich signed by Bush, he is clearly in favor of increasing taxes on those who should pay them.
3. Obama doesn't believe in the fictional war on terror and will presumably not invade and conquer another nation in a preemptive strike. I could be wrong on this, however since every Republican candidate (save Ron Paul) has damn near declared war on Iran and/or China, it's a good bet that voting for Obama gives us the best chance of avoiding another idiotic war.
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stillrentinginLA says
Libertarians believe that every person has the right to do whatever he/she wants unless it directly harms or infringes upon the rights of another person.
A libertarian can easily be anti-abortion simply by believing the unborn offspring to be a person, in which case the unborn also has the right to live.
The issue of abortion is independent of the libertarian philosophy.
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JodyChunder says
Says the guy who's avatar is a half naked ugly redneck on the couch. Yeah, that helps me decide my vote.
(put your clothes on dude. Youre making us throw up in our mouths)
As for health care, I have a preexisting condition as well. I understand the concerns others have. But the far larger picture, not just the stuff that affects me, is the debt and the endless overseas adventures that have indebted us to China. We can't afford to police the world even if we wanted to. We can't pay for all these programs that benefit individuals without cutting something. And no one else in the GOP or Dems seem to understand that. And if you don't have a more valid case other than 'Ron Paul is a nut bag' then please don't bother to vote. Unintelligent fools have no business voting in the first place.
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stillrentinginLA says
Calling abortion a gender issue is disingenuous. Half the pro-life people are women, and half the pro-choice people are men. And half the unborn aborted are female. Saying that abortion is a women's issue is a pure lie and a straw man argument.
The controversy is due to disagreements about whether or not the unborn is a person. You don't think the unborn are people, other people do. And your both wrong.
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iwog says
Given that Obama has extended Bush's tax cuts when he didn't need to, he isn't clearly in favor of increasing taxes on the richest 1%.
iwog says
For someone who doesn't believe in the fictional war on terror, he sure has killed enough civilians and destroyed enough human rights to look like he supports it.
Ron Paul is the only candidate that has proven himself to be pro-human rights and against all the undeclared wars we have been waging.
Even if Paul isn't nominated, which is almost certainly the case, voting for Romney over Obama still makes sense. The fact that Romney is no better doesn't even matter. It is worthwhile to simply sending the message to Washington that the Democrats can't take votes for granted and that the next Democrat president had better act like a Democrat instead of a Republican.
Plus given all the evil Obama has done in his first term, I wouldn't want to risk a second term. Second term presidents are more dangerous than first term ones. They don't have to worry about re-elections and can sell out to their overlords.
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Dan8267 says
Every time he's extended the Bush tax cuts, it has been in exchange for something such as raising the minimum wage or extending unemployment benefits. I personally think he should be playing hardball, but if he's not clearly in favor of increasing taxes on the rich, why are the Republicans giving him anything?
Dan8267 says
The point is that Romney is far worse. A one-term administration will not be lost on Romney who will quickly realize that the best way to secure his Republican base will be to kill lots of foreigners. That's what Republicans do.
There's no other option. Nothing Romney proposes on the economy will work.
Dan8267 says
What's a single "evil" act by Obama that wouldn't have been carried out by Romney?
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Yeah but if Romney is elected president, the Liberal class of '08 legacy is safe. Obama care is Romney care after all.
Romney wins, the "repeal Obamacare" fight ends on inauguration day. I would think you hardcore Liberal line towers would be all over Romney getting the nod. Another added bonus, Romney wont get people out to the polling places, as in our minds, we would be Voting on the same person.
Romney gets the nod, Obama will waltz into his second term.
With one of the lowest voter turn out in history, no matter who wins.
Ron Paul gets the nod, then November 6th will be a busy busy day at the polling place.
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HousingWatcher says
But the country is not federally owned, that's the difference here. Local school districts are owned by the local government just like state university systems are owned by the state government. If a land is federally owned the feds can do what they want with it. On the same note the uniform code of military justice has provisions that differ from the constitution. Military courts run a bit different from actual civilian
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm
Again we're not a unitary state as it is the states that made the federal government. Not all states were admitted at the same time..many were territories but became states and gained representation and sovereignty.
The GOP is right. The left wants Romney to win because it is the only way they can save Obama/Romney care
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Concerned Parent of 2 says
Yes we can, its called raising taxes. A good start is just letting the Bush tax cuts for everyone expire, in other words do nothing. Now while virtually no feels feels we can deal with the debt by tax increases alone they need to be part of the mix. Yet every Republican running for Pres. including Paul stood on stage and said they would reject any deal that contained 1 dollar of tax increase for 10 dollars of spending cuts, sheer unadulterated, pandering idiocy. For Christ sake they want lower taxes for corporations and wealthy individuals... excuse me "job creators" Seems to me only the Dems/Obama are willing to at least look at a mix of tax increases and spending cuts.
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iwog says
The Republicans haven't given much. But at least we agree that Obama should have been playing hardball. Kucinich would have. He should have been the Democrat nominee in 2008.
In any case, if you were to look at Obama's policies just by themselves, you'd conclude that he was a Repubican.
iwog says
Perhaps somewhat worse, but I can't say far worse because of things like the NDAA, torture, and drone killings.
iwog says
I doubt there is any act of evil committed by Obama that would not have been carried out by any of the Republican candidates except Ron Paul, and that includes Romney. And that was a sufficient reason for me to reluctantly vote for Obama up until the NDAA passage. Once that happened, I can't consider Obama to be the lesser of the two evils.
Now I have to vote based on two reasons. First, a second-term president is scarier than a first-term one. Second, having Obama lose the election due to passing the NDAA would at least give us hope that in 2016 the Democrat candidates will know that they cannot trample on human rights without consequence. I want to force the Democrats to stop being the left wing of the Republican party. In the big picture, that's more important than who is president between 2013 and 2016.
The GOP says
I don't care about that. Obamacare/Romneycare is not real health care reform anyway. If anything, that half-ass measure took us in the wrong direction and prevented real reform from happening.
The GOP says
Perhaps. I still don't think that Ron Paul has much change of winning the nomination, but I do think he'd do better in a general election. Ron Paul appeals to independents and the young. Romney has been running a general election campaign, but his own party has attacked him so much that you know the Democrats can just rerun the Republican ads during the general election. Finally, I think that some of the fiscally conservative Democrats would find Ron Paul appealing. And yes, there are fiscally conservative Democrats -- they want small government, but also protection of civil rights and the environment.
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The biggest hole in the budget is having to pay as much for our military as the rest of the world's combined military budgets - in peacetime, no less! We're not at war with a power even remotely equivalent to our own.
The use of our military is even more expensive requiring supplementals on top of that.
There cannot be a balanced budget with substantial military cuts, not just 'slowing the rate of growth'.
Before we cut the mandatory spending, most of which is funded specifically through special taxes, we need to slash the discretionary spending.
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thunderlips11 says
Yes, the military and the industrial defense complex is a huge job programs that wastes resources. It's Keynesian economics at its worst. We should replace that spending with useful production like building 21st infrastructure from smart highways with personal mag-lift vehicles to clean sustainable energy to high speed Internet connectivity. Such infrastructure investment would provide great long term returns.
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Why do so many people endorse Ron Paul?
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Paul was booed in the Faux News Debate last night. Does anyone believe he can win in a State? Since that's kind of important if one wants to win the primaries.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/17/south-carolina-primary-live-coverage?CMP=NECNETTXT8187
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The GOP says
Yeah, but it'll be all mainstream Republicans and Independents pulling for Obama.
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Even Fox News agrees the GOP can't win without Ron Paul's support:
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Anonymousone says
Yeah, if Ron Paul isn't nominated all of his young supporters will probably go with Obama instead. That could make the difference.
Even if the Ron Paul supporters stay home instead of voting for Obama, it could be enough for another four years of that jerk.
At least Romney is running a general election campaign so there's some hope he'll pull enough independents to become a one-term president.
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Perry drops out. Santorum and Gingrich are not on the Virginia ballot.
The anti-Romney vote may now go to Ron Paul.
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Well, we'll find out this weekend. If the South Carolinian bible thumpers vote for open marriage, adulterating Newt then all bets are off. Given the homophobia in SC, I bet they are going to vote for Santorum.
Hell, even my dictionary plugin thinks that Santorum is a joke.