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Ron Paul Campaign is Quixotic--time for Paulistas to get real


By CL   Follow   Mon, 23 Jan 2012, 11:07am   1,451 views   21 comments
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As I've said elsewhere, the problem with Paul is that the issues he attacks with vigor have real constituencies. The real world is not theoretical, and politics doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Witness: Despite Paulistas claiming that he has huge support among the military, he flopped in South Carolina, which has a huge veteran voting population? Why?

He's essentially skipping Florida, right? Why? It's probably hard to destroy Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security and decry Israel in a State like Florida, maybe?

So, Paul has a shot at winning the primaries, as long as nobody with an interest gets involved.

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  1. Vicente


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    1   11:59am Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Yes it's amazing I have relatives in the Carolinas. Many talk about Ron Paul and on paper like SOME or even MANY of his ideas. However, when the rubber meets the road they always pick someone else.

  2. CL


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    2   12:10pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    The Paul campaign says that Paul is going on a delegate hunt, and that's why he is skipping Florida. He's off to Minnesota! Nevada! Heee---yaaaaa!

    People do like Paul; he has answer for everything and seems to have consistency and they find that refreshing. But when the "rubber hits the road", as you say, he is alienating someone.

    How numerous and powerful are those who would be hurt by returning to the Gold Standard? Closing all of those military bases?

    We can believe in some of them in the theoretical, but if you depend on them in reality, there is no way you'll vote for him.

    That is why politicians pander and parse. They're not idiots.

  3. Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq


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    3   12:20pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    It helps things when you don't have retarded son who can't manage his way through a modern airport. As a corporation, I never have to deal with the authorities.

  4. ¥


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    4   12:27pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dr Paul is an ideology-driven idiot. It works great on 10% of the population who generally agrees with him, but the rest suffer a reaction against someone who rubs them so wrong.

    Plenty of people are generally fearful about the world and want a Daddy president to protect them and America.

    When dealing with the American people you have to work on the emotional plane, not the intellectual or pure ideological.

  5. ¥


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    5   12:29pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    CL says

    So, Paul has a shot at winning the primaries, as long as nobody with an interest gets involved.

    The 2008 vote breakdown is instructive:

    Dr Paul basically carried the Unabomber counties.

    Actually, upon further research I see that Dr Paul's constituency was even more extreme than the Unabomber's county (Lewis & Clark), which went for Romney in 2008.

  6. Vicente


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    6   12:38pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    The point of your thread is moot.

    The Paulbots are not open to outside critique, in fact presenting them with it only validates how RIGHTEOUS their cause is. Just "getting real" is not in their playbook. "YOU obviously don't understand and if it weren't for CONSPIRACIES then surely Dr. Paul would triumph."

  7. CL


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    7   1:53pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq says

    It helps things when you don't have retarded son who can't manage his way through a modern airport. As a corporation, I never have to deal with the authorities.

    That's DOCTOR SENATOR retarded son to you! I didn't go through all the trouble of inventing my own board to be certified by to be called anything less!

    Bellingham Bill says

    Dr Paul basically carried the Unabomber counties.

    The Freedom-loving counties!

    So, not to be repeating my repetitive self, but what do the Paultards blame for the military not supporting Paul in reality:

    http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/ron-paul-s-military-support-awol-south-carolina-exit-polls-say

    "Fox News exit polling showed that 21 percent of those who voted in South Carolina served in the military.

    Of those who identified themselves as veterans or active duty military, Ron Paul received only 12 percent of the vote. Newt Gingrich, the clear winner of the primary, received 39 percent of the military vote, followed by Romney at 32 percent. Even Rick Santorum received more votes from the military than Paul."

  8. APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch


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    8   2:05pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Hehehehehehe

    Bellingham Bill says

    Dr Paul basically carried the Unabomber counties.

    Bellingham Bill says

    CL says

    So, Paul has a shot at winning the primaries, as long as nobody with an interest gets involved.

    The 2008 vote breakdown is instructive:

    Dr Paul basically carried the Unabomber counties.

    Actually, upon further research I see that Dr Paul's constituency was even more extreme than the Unabomber's county (Lewis & Clark), which went for Romney in 2008.

    “Nessuna soluzione . . . nessun problema!„

  9. uomo_senza_nome


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    9   2:10pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    Dr Paul is an ideology-driven idiot.

    Ideologically driven, yes. But he is not an idiot.

    Proof 1 (predicting real estate bubble in 2001):

    Proof 2 (spot-on with foreign policy):

    Bellingham Bill says

    Plenty of people are generally fearful about the world and want a Daddy president to protect them and America.

    No kidding, SC primaries an adequate example.

    Bellingham Bill says

    When dealing with the American people you have to work on the emotional plane, not the intellectual or pure ideological.

    What you're basically saying is majority of Americans are idiots who don't want to wake up to reality. This is probably true and it reflects in the nature of leaders we get.

    CL says

    So, Paul has a shot at winning the primaries, as long as nobody with an interest gets involved.

    OP is true. The country is riddled with special interests and no way can a man with integrity win an election.

    Vicente says

    The Paulbots are not open to outside critique, in fact presenting them with it only validates how RIGHTEOUS their cause is.

    hehe, this is commonly seen among fervent supporters of Ron Paul.
    Politics is more about emotion than rationality. And I agree, his chances are very slim, if any at all.

  10. uomo_senza_nome


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    10   2:20pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CL says

    So, not to be repeating my repetitive self, but what do the Paultards blame for the military not supporting Paul in reality:

    Vincente replied regarding this once, and I think he's right:

    http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1105321#comment-772543

  11. CL


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    11   2:49pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    Proof 1 (predicting real estate bubble in 2001):

    A broken clock is right twice a day, so I'm not sure how much weight I'd give these web snippets.uomo_senza_nome says

    The country is riddled with special interests and no way can a man with integrity win an election.

    While true, it doesn't follow that he has integrity. He has a consistent worldview, but his racist dabblings are not high-water marks for integrity.

    Does a person with integrity keep donations from the Neo-Nazis?

  12. uomo_senza_nome


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    12   3:00pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    CL says

    A broken clock is right twice a day, so I'm not sure how much weight I'd give these web snippets

    He is a follower of Austrian Business Cycle Theory, which basically states that artificially manipulating interest rates is at the root of the financial bubbles. I don't see the similarity between placing a prediction based on sound economic theory and a broken clock.

    Billy has published so many charts on here that clearly demonstrates that bulk of economic growth over the past decade is through a credit binge. Lowering interest rates is at the heart of that credit binge.

    Is it difficult to face this fact?

    CL says

    He has a consistent worldview, but his racist dabblings are not high-water marks for integrity.

    I have already posted something on this:

    http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1206338#comment-785935

    I agree his explanations are inadequate in that regard and he would better off if whoever wrote it came clean.

    This doesn't in anyway invalidate his position on the economy and foreign policy.

  13. Jersey


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    13   3:49pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    I hope you people are using this intense level of scrutiny on ALL the candidates, and not just Ron Paul. Some of you appear to be mimicking the mainstream media's attacks on Paul, as if you are paid to be here.

    Hard to believe that a person of intelligence and dignity would so willfully take sides with socialism/communism (as opposed to Libertarianism), since socialist/communist ideology has butchered about 100 million people in the last 100 years,

    Does the death of 100 million human beings mean anything to you, or is it that your politics are not human-oriented?

  14. CL


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    14   4:35pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    I don't see the similarity between placing a prediction based on sound economic theory and a broken clock.

    The point there is that, like the Schiff videos, they simply aren't right that often. I'd even think we could say the same about Roubini.

    I don't believe the Austrians are demonstrably correct about much. The people who do seem to want to believe it as though it's empirical. But, economics, like politics, often ignore real costs and human behavior.

    uomo_senza_nome says

    I agree his explanations are inadequate in that regard and he would better off if whoever wrote it came clean.

    What if he did write it? What if he didn't write it, but doesn't want to alienate the fringe, racist white vote? Are either of these excusable?

    Jersey says

    I hope you people are using this intense level of scrutiny on ALL the candidates, and not just Ron Paul

    Of course. I think our point is that the Paulistas do NOT use the same objectivity when dealing with him. Whenever his ideas threaten a voting bloc, I hear apologists say, "Oh, he wouldn't do that. And if he did, he wouldn't do it quickly. And if he did it quickly, he'd do it so that Granny wasn't thrown out into the streets", etc.

    I think that if one embraces Paul, fine. Would they embrace him if it prolonged the pain experienced by the middle class? For how long? A decade? 2?

    I think most Paul disciples have the fire of the gospel, and an appreciable faith. They are zealous. They lack humility.

    Why is Paul beyond reproach for the converted?

  15. Jersey


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    15   4:44pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    CL says

    Why is Paul beyond reproach for the converted?

    All the other candidates are backed by pro-socialist/communist central bankers and their private thinktanks. If you like socialism/communism and choose to ignore that these extremist ideologies have resulted in the slaughter of 100 million people in the last 100 years, then I must question your intelligence, your sanity, and/or your intent behind promoting such things. What's in it for you, personally?

  16. uomo_senza_nome


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    16   4:49pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    CL says

    Are either of these excusable?

    No, they aren't. I see this as a separate issue from economy and foreign policy that's all. Not any less important, but just a separate topic.

    CL says

    like the Schiff videos, they simply aren't right that often.

    What do you mean by "being right that often?" Nobody can be right 100% of the time. We're talking about human behavior here, how can we predict anything with 100% certainty? We can however predict the trends.

    The point is that the Austrians get the secular trend correct. For instance, Schiff got the trend on gold/silver correctly but his calls on hyperinflation has been horribly wrong.

    I think that if you remove dogmatism from any position, you can see the picture quite clearly.

    CL says

    But, economics, like politics, often ignore real costs and human behavior.

    Totally agree.

    My intent to post the Ron Paul videos was to just show that calling him an idiot is clearly wrong.

  17. ¥


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    17   5:02pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    Proof 1 (predicting real estate bubble in 2001):

    Here's the speech:

    http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=393&Itemid=60

    2001 was too early to call the bubble. Prices where I live and down in LA are still well above 2001 levels.

    The $3.2T trillion in GSE debt had nothing to do with the bubble.

    He is 100% correct that GSE issues were considered money-good in the leadup to the crash -- Apple had tons of money in GSEs that they had at terrible risk, along with China etc.

    1:57 -- "Savings and loan crisis of the 1970s"

    ??? That's not in the transcript.

    This man could in fact be an idiot.

    "foreign central banks are merely recycling the dollars we . . . print" into GSE debt.

    Yes, this was the mechanism for driving our trade deficit without losing the dollar's strength. It was a massive scam perhaps. Still is, but was too.

    2:43 -- "Refinancing has helped consumers continue spending even in a slowing economy"

    Yes.

    Thing is, Paul is correct about some things but these are the obvious things.

    I think he's all wet about the need to return to gold or tossing the welfare state.

    We need more Saul Alinsky socialism, not less. Dr Paul argues for a plantation economy. Successful economies don't look or work like the libertarian utopia, since this libertopia is just as problematic if not more than our current neoliberal bullshit system.

    There's no redistribution in the libertopia. That's its central flaw, and why I'm a left-libertarian and not a right-libertarian.

  18. uomo_senza_nome


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    18   5:06pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    I think he's all wet about the need to return to gold or tossing the welfare state.

    LOL, I agree. Paul does not see the fact that debt is both an asset and a liability, which is a pain in the ass -- because he is a smart person.

    Bellingham Bill says

    We need more Saul Alinsky socialism, not less. Dr Paul argues for a plantation economy. Successful economies don't look or work like the libertarian utopia, since this libertopia is just as problematic if not more than our current neoliberal bullshit system.

    ROTFL, totally agree.

    Libertarianism has major philosophical holes - Game theory and public property as the most obvious ones.

    Bellingham Bill says

    There's no redistribution in the libertopia. That's its central flaw, and why I'm a left-libertarian and not a right-libertarian.

    Spot on.

  19. Jersey


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    19   5:11pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Bellingham Bill says

    We need more Saul Alinsky socialism, not less.

    I suppose there's something in it for you, personally, to ignore the deaths of 100 million people over the last 100 years, due to socialism/communism?

    Tell me, would you feel the same way if it were your family that was murdered from such ideology? I have an entire branch of my family tree that was placed in a barn and then burned to the ground by socialists. All because they happened to be scraping out a meager farming existence in the village the German socialists happened to visit.

  20. uomo_senza_nome


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    20   5:18pm Mon 23 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Jersey says

    I suppose there's something in it for you, personally, to ignore the deaths of 100 million people over the last 100 years, due to socialism/communism?

    I don't get it.
    Man is both an individual and a social animal.

    We never need to glorify just one facet of man (individual = capitalism) (social animal only = communism).

    What we need is balance of both. At the moment, labor is terribly suffering.

    Jersey says

    Tell me, would you feel the same way if it were your family that was murdered from such ideology?

    Ideology doesn't murder people. People murder other people.

  21. CL


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    21   3:59pm Wed 25 Jan 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    Ideology doesn't murder people. People murder other people.

    Ha. Well played.

    --Monsieur Jersey,

    If you have experienced the grave losses you've described, you should know the difference between a center-right Government, elected by the people--with term limits, separation of powers, freedom of speech, and other rights versus a murderous dictatorship.

    If you cannot, please turn off the am radio or Fox news. You have accidentally severed your Corpus Callosum.

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