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Blind bidding in the Bay Area
By grinderman Follow Mon, 30 Jan 2012, 8:35pm 6,790 views 55 comments
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G'man,
You act as if the transaction had something to do with you and the seller and a rational market.
It's about maximizing the commission of the broker, fuck-all else. There is nothing and no one in the room with you except that one imperative.
Every detail of these transactions are organized for the benefit of members of a criminal cult that Jeffrey Dahmer would find repulsive.
If you're heading in NZ in five years, don't bother. Enjoy yourself. Rent or squat in one of the war torn neighborhoods of Oakland and watch cannibal anarchy descend. Buy a shot gun and wave it at passersby who appear to menace your home, shoot the ones who threaten you. What could be more of an American experience than that?
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grinderman says
First the state back in 1998-2000 wrongly believed captial gains from rich stock bubble would pay for any future obligations. Which means they ignored the bubble.
Second, after 2000, home prices skyrocketed and like the stock bubble, they self justified thinking it would last for many many years. Never adjusted spending or debt.
Now that the stock and RE bubble have burst, they are still stuck in debt.
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San Jose, CA
Buster says
At least in Kabul when you pay mansion prices you get a vast compound/mansion and plenty of budget left for your own army. Here you get a falling apart chicken shack on the wrong side of the tracks.
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Menlo Park, CA
PockyClipsNow says
I do mean exactly that.
There is no free market without a government to protect it. Period.
The free market exists only when price signals are truthful. Without verified bidding on houses, all we have is continuous fraud, no free market at all.
You want free as in "free to commit fraud by lying about other bids". I want free as in "free to buy or not, depending on truthful information".
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Lafayette, CA
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edvard2 says
This isn't what he's saying. Almost all contracts in California are contingent contracts that provide for inspection. He's asking why bids are arbitrarily trusted in the hands of a self-interested realtor who might conjure up an army of ghost bidders if he thinks it will get you to pay more.
The answer is that our market is more "free" than most. Take note those of you who vote tooth and nail to take government out of transactions like this.
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grinderman says
If you wish to live in the most liberal progressive cities in the US, might as well learn the political correct terms..
They are not mentally ill they are called "conditional disorder".
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Obviously, he hasn't been to Kabul.
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or take 1995-97 prices and factor in inflation ... around 30-40%
to get the real current values based on historical trends..
http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/NorCal.html
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Bellingham, WA
grinderman says
Well for one, California only gets 80c of every dollar we send to DC.
California itself cannot print money.
The reason things are so fucked up here is largely due to Prop 13, which was a massive giveaway to the richest landowners in the state, freezing their tax burdens at 1970s levels (+ max 2% pa inflation)
even though their ground rents have quadrupled since then.
Californians were also among the most guilty in raping ourselves in the credit bubble of 2002-2007. 40% of loans made in Salinas were option-arms:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_37/b4000001.htm
and this state is also proud home to the $700,000 loan to a part-time strawberry picker:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/15/BUGQ9P8PFL1.DTL&ao=all
If California could cut ties with the rest of the Union, we'd do OK. We've got ag, we've got tourism, we've got entertainment, and we've got tech.
But we only got 2% of the votes in the US Senate, and we're not a battleground state so our Presidential vote is ceremonial.
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Wallingford, PA
Grinderman, you are coming into the American housing market with fresh eyes; the housing situation is worse than you can imagine -- trust your instinct -- there are more than a few vipers in the snake pit. What is the story on earthquake insurance in California these days?
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My previous comment disappeared. Anyway, here are my thoughts. Ultimately you'll have to make the decision.
To me it doesn't make sense to buy anywhere if the plan is to move in a few years anyway. That seems rather obvious. But to delve further into that line of thought, you're also talking of buying immediately in an area you just moved to and know nothing about? Why? I wouldn't move to Sydney and immediately settle on one area and buy something, especially if I knew I was going to move out of the country in a few years. What would be the advantage to buying in a scenario like that? In any case, renting is by American standards a lot cheaper in the Bay Area compared to buying. We've been renting a "charming" 4 bedroom house for less than 1/3rd the cost of buying for the past 8 years now.
Secondly, the housing market is in a slump here. Its been that way since around 2006 and there isn't any signs of improvement. So let's say you buy something anyway. In 5 years you wind up not being able to find a buyer and you're stuck in another country with a house that won't sell in another. Sounds like a nightmare.
Lastly, the Bay Area is pretty diverse in regards to areas and cities, neighborhoods, etc etc. I lived in Berkeley for 3-4 years before I decided I really didn't like it and now really like where I live a lot better. Had I bought a house in Berkeley I'd be stuck with a house in an area I didn't really like. If you must buy a house, why rush? Take your time and really get to see what the area is like.
Good luck.
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edvard2 says
It was on the site and then went away? Yes, I can see Iwog quoted it but I don't see the original comment. No idea how that happened, but it is worrisome.
grinderman says
Yes, that's how realtors like it, so that they can lie about other bids to try to extract more money from you.
All house bids should be public and verified by a bank.
How do things work in UK, Ireland, and Australia? How can you prove the realtor is not lying there?
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You think blind bidding is crazy. I once went to a new housing action in 2003 where there were 3 houses up for bids. After all the marketing hype in the local papers, fliers, etc. a grand total of 3 couples showed up outside the trailer for the auction. We each put in our preferences and when they realtards went back into the trailer to devise how to scam our asses all the 3 couple chatted. We realized that there was no overlap in our first choices.
Well, when the realtards came back they were dressed in party hats and blowers. They had our names in a hat and then started picking them out. The first draw was hilarious. They hugged and kissed the couple as they blew the horns and celebrated. Then they quickly handed them off to a waiting realtard with the papers drawn up. Then another draw, then the last. Quickly I found myself and wife in the trailer and a pen being pushed towards me. My wife was caught up in the hype and all excited. I started with some questions though. First one was how much commission was built into this sale. Answer: no real answer came back. Next response from me was about why the prices have been adjusted up 5% from the last auction when there was obviously no swarm of people jumping to buy? Well, the realtard then proceeded to tell me I didn't understand real estate.
I took one look at my wife and gave the signal. We marched out. No respect, then no sale. We eventually bought a new house in another division when we were treated properly. The house they pushed on us sat for about a year before it finally sold. The whole sub-division actually never got developed and parks and school the realtards promised are just fields currently.
The real estate industry is like no other. Full of corrupt people with conflicting self interests. Much worse than anything I have ever seen. Blind bids are just part of the scam.
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Los Angeles, CA
OK lets get a moment of sanity here people. The foundation for civilization is property rights, rule of law. You DO NOT have the right to control bidding on someone else's property they are selling!
If I am selling you my used car I DONT have to register with some government agency and have them 'monitor bidding' to make sure its fair and to make sure ALL the bidders know about all the other bidders and that i market my car in minority neighborhoods, etc, have 10 day right of recission, etc. bullshit on and on.
The real estate market in the US is spectacular and I like it the way it is just fine - the messed up part is where the government is involved (bailouts, HARP,HAMP, zero/low down payment FHA, tax credit, tax write off,etc).
The real issue here is not 'greedy sellers' but big government making prices insanely high by giving idiots and/or gamblers 729k loans with borrowed $ from china.
Im surprised that Patrick said this: "All house bids should be public and verified by a bank."
He should have learned the LAST thing this market needs is MORE government meddling. If the feds DID monitor bids you know what they will stick in (more fees/taxes to pay for the priviledge of being monitored thus higher prices) and people who cheat on taxes aka 'the poor' would get priority bidding due to they have fake 'papers'(cheated on tax forms) showing they are under the median income AND if they are minority they will 'WIN' the house with a low bid. haha. nice idea in cuba maybe!
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I think Patrick meant after the bidding, so there is accountability on all sides. It obviously should not be used in the process of selection.
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Menlo Park, CA
thomas.wong1986 says
Please describe that process. Do bidders on commercial property openly publish their bids?
I don't want government control of any prices. I just want honest reports of bids, not fraud.
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Los Angeles, CA
What Patrick describes is the typical big-gov democrat nighmare.
A law is passed with 'good intentions' by people who are clueless in that field. "All bids shall be publicly available on the internet for 10 days prior to selecting winning bid on real estate." or something.
THen you will get the 'fake bid from bro in law' AND mother in law to run up the price!
So people complain and law #2 says "all bids must have documented down payment and 15 other rules".
It all ends in soviet/cuba style nightmare where only the crooks,smarties, and gov employees can 'get by' and regular folks are left out of the game and lies rule the land (hey just like capitalism! lol )
Also I would point out here EBAY is the most efficient market yet. AND still filled with fake bids (from sellers bro in law) and a cancelled bids and also sometimes the seller wont honor the winning bid (it happend to me, he listed it CHEAP and i won then he said 'it broke, sorry have to cancel auction' lolz)
So I think Patrick is really 'wanting people to be honest' and thats just impozzible, sorry.
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We already have the Soviet style nightmare:
http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1208247
The 99% does all the work, yet a tiny elite get all the benefits, because they control the government with their money.
You didn't answer how the commercial property blind-bidding system is any better than for residential property.
I assume that means you support allowing fraudulent bids on commercial property too.
The problem is FRAUD. Theoretically, it's already illegal, but in reality, if you can pay lobbists in DC, somehow the laws get bent just for you.
We should most definitely have public bidding on real estate.
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thomas.wong1986 says
How do you know? Maybe everything your realtor told you was a lie designed to maximize his commission.
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Public bidding would be a joke with probably even MORE room for fraud.
If I am a listing agent instead of lying about fake bids and saying 'trust me' if I could SHOW YOU fake bids on the internet with real names (and u could call them up and ask them if they are real bids!) then I could get even more $ for a crap shack in menlo park.
Think about it. The realiitors will abuse public bidding to thier advantage - there is no other scenario possible especially when you look at the $$ spent by NAR in DC.
Again, look the mess ebay is as an example.