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For Republican supporters out there... Which candidate do you support?


By American in Japan   Follow   Sun, 12 Feb 2012, 5:42am   16,487 views   183 comments
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How will the candidate of your choice be an improvement over Obama? What policies will be implemented...? Please be specific. I have my criticisms of Obama , incidentally, but I want to know who is better and why.

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  1. FortWayne


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    24   7:07pm Mon 13 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    As a Libertarian there is only one choice which might not even make it to the finals.

  2. Jeremy


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    25   7:44pm Mon 13 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    It is very unfortunate that is looking less and less likely that Ron Paul has any chance. I had a glimmer of hope for a couple of weeks, but that was about it. There is no point in voting. None at all. Obama won't lose. It's probably better that he doesn't. This way I can at least hold out hope that a viable alternative emerges in 4 years. Obama, Newt, Rmoney (sic).... all the same. Santorum, you've got to be kidding me!

  3. Jeremy


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    26   7:46pm Mon 13 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Even more unfortunately, I have this sinking feeling that Sarah Palin, knowing Obama won't lose, has calculated her position in 2016. I think I'll vomit now.

  4. freak80


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    27   7:43am Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Jeremy,

    I don't think Sarah Palin has a chance. Her only support would be in the South, and that's not enough to win a national election.

  5. EightBall


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    28   8:14am Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    iwog says

    The atrocity is that there's not a single Republican with the balls to actually answer the question.

    Any answer will have the person drawn and quartered in this forum. You and a slew of others are just waiting to pounce.

    I will not vote for Obama based on the single issue of the current healthcare mandate fiasco.

  6. iwog


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    29   8:49am Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    EightBall says

    Any answer will have the person drawn and quartered in this forum. You and a slew of others are just waiting to pounce.

    What's wrong with that? If you want to see someone getting pounced on, go look at my posts in the real estate forum.

    EightBall says

    I will not vote for Obama based on the single issue of the current healthcare mandate fiasco.

    If you don't believe in universal health care, that's a reason to vote for a Republican. I disagree with that position and I think public health care works well in almost every country it's used, but at least it's a legitimate point to debate.

    Therefore I guess my pounce is this: Even if I agreed with you, I find the abhorrent decisions by the Republicans on the Supreme court (and presumably any future Republicans should Obama lose) to be far more ruinous than health care reform. Citizens United being exhibit A.

  7. EightBall


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    30   9:32am Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (3)  

    iwog says

    If you don't believe in universal health care, that's a reason to vote for a Republican. I disagree with that position and I think public health care works well in almost every country it's used, but at least it's a legitimate point to debate.

    I'm not completely opposed to universal healthcare. I'm opposed to the contraception mandate. First off, pregnancy is not a disease and if someone wants to go out and buy the pill they can do so - it is very cheap. Why force people to cover it? I don't have a problem with these...

    Get hit by a bus - covered.

    Get sick - covered.

    Got a disease and need to change jobs - no preexisting conditions so you can be covered (they the hell insurance is tied to your employer is beyond me...but that is another topic)

    But this...

    Don't what to get pregnant? Stop having sex, buy some condoms, or go buy the pill. I don't see where a simple religious conscience clause is that controversial. Pregnancy is not a disease. Once Obama is a lame duck, I fear (based on this alone) of what else is coming. It's not just in health care where I see major issues in the future. Perhaps we disagree on this but these actions should be a major alarm bell for EVERYONE in my opinion.

    iwog says

    herefore I guess my pounce is this: Even if I agreed with you, I find the abhorrent decisions by the Republicans on the Supreme court (and presumably any future Republicans should Obama lose) to be far more ruinous than health care reform. Citizens United being exhibit A.

    I fear a court packed with Kagans and Ginsburgs. I don't always agree with the right wing justices but I'll take Citizens United if we never have another Terri Schiavo.

  8. TPB


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    31   9:59am Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    iwog says

    If you don't believe in universal health care, that's a reason to vote for a Republican.

    Really mandated inflated insurance premiums are "universal healthcare"?
    Iwog you and all Liberals have lost all hope and sight of what is real.
    You can shit in a can and call it dinner, it doesn't mean we have to eat it.

    Was that clear enough for you, or do you need a paragraph to break down each syllable?

  9. freak80


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    32   10:09am Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    The GOP says

    Really mandated inflated insurance premiums are "universal healthcare"?

    Hey now, don't be suprised. This is America, where we take the WORST ideas of the Left and Right and combine them into the WORST possible legislation.

  10. TPB


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    33   10:16am Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Can you pass me the can of Chocolate Corn?

  11. TPB


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    34   11:29am Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    That's why I don't waste my time rehashing old stories I posted.
    The old forum format, was a real time update of the corruption in America. Then when the old forum was abandoned and this forum was the official forum. All of my predictions about this administration, all of the Economic stories, I posted under Tenpoundbass, all of the Political discussions, were deleted, when I pissed Iwog and Co. off.

    I'm not wasting my time for their edification, I'm not new here. Iwog has read every truth I've ever typed. To play Coy now, and say "Can you explain I have no idea what you mean?" Is just being cheeky.

  12. CL


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    35   11:36am Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    EightBall says

    I'm not completely opposed to universal healthcare. I'm opposed to the contraception mandate.

    Couldn't you look at this as a matter of choice? Having an option to cover contraception doesn't require employees who to use it, doesn't require policy holders to use it. It would only require that employees who disagree have the choice to use it, n'est-ce pas? Even at Catholic institutions, there are countless non-Catholic employees, for example.

  13. EightBall


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    36   1:40pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CL says

    Couldn't you look at this as a matter of choice? Having an option to cover contraception doesn't require employees who to use it, doesn't require policy holders to use it. It would only require that employees who disagree have the choice to use it, n'est-ce pas? Even at Catholic institutions, there are countless non-Catholic employees, for example.

    They have a choice - I listed them above. Pregnancy is not a disease and not having contraception covered (and paid for) by a Catholic institution isn't going prevent anyone from going out and buying the pill. It's a ridiculous argument driven by ideology and a precursor to ugliness yet to be delivered. If you can't give a conscience out for Catholics on something this trivial, what's next? You've gotta draw the line somewhere.

  14. CL


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    37   3:20pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Can Jehovah's witness businesses deny blood transfusion coverage for their employees? Or can Christian Scientists deny surgery or drug coverage?

    Believers can still refuse treatment, right? But employees aren't forced to believe what their employers believe.

    I'd say THAT infringes upon the employee's rights, and would result in a scarier outcome than offering, but not requiring, condoms for Catholic employees.

    Remember that this affects employees only, not religious institutions.

  15. Patrick


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    38   3:23pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    The GOP says

    Iwog you and all Liberals have lost all hope and sight of what is real.
    You can shit in a can and call it dinner, it doesn't mean we have to eat it.

    Was that clear enough for you, or do you need a paragraph to break down each syllable?

    Seems like you're deliberately trying to insult them...

  16. leo707


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    39   3:34pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    It is funny, they don't want Obama. But they'll bring in potential candidates who'll do much worse than Obama in reality. They just don't want to accept the reality.

    I don't think it is so funny that they don't want Obama. I don't want Obama, for numerous reasons he has been a disappointment as a president.

    But, yes, they don't realize that every -- yes, I am including Ron Paul -- GOP option would drive this country further and faster into the ground than Obama. My hope is that in 4 years we are not yet past the tipping point in our problems, and that the 2016 pres. will affect positive change.

    I would love to vote against Obama, but a write in for Spongebob is a more useful vote than voting for any of the GOP options.

  17. TPB


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    40   3:39pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    You don't think it's not insulting to be told that an inflated health insurance by more than 40% since the health care bill was passed, to have it be called "Universal Health Care"?

    Or to be asked who are you voting for, then to be told you're in favor of a litany of crap that has nothing to do with the outcome of who I vote for. Nor does it establish that those accomplishments were indeed merit of any accolades or anything to attribute to Obama?

    Or the selective lucidity, they are good at deducing what you said when you didn't, but can't seem to grasp your other points?

  18. uomo_senza_nome


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    41   3:41pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    leoj707 says

    I don't want Obama, for numerous reasons he has been a disappointment as a president.

    I completely get the fact that they don't want Obama. I wouldn't either, for a number of reasons. Which is why I think reasonable citizens choosing not to vote is a brilliant thing. Making a choice means you are supporting the status quo. Iwog is supporting the status quo and (somewhat :)) blind to the corruption and cronyism of the banksters.

    leoj707 says

    But, yes, they don't realize that every -- yes, I am including Ron Paul -- GOP option would drive this country further and faster into the ground than Obama.

    I agree. Ron Paul would make an excellent foreign policy director, but not a president.

    leoj707 says

    but a write in for Spongebob is a more useful vote than voting for any of the GOP options.

    Don't write in anybody. That's the best option.

  19. TPB


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    42   3:43pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    ...Didn't vote.

  20. CL


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    43   4:47pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    American in Japan says

    How will the candidate of your choice be an improvement over Obama? What policies will be implemented...? Please be specific. I have my criticisms of Obama , incidentally, but I want to know who is better and why.

    Crickets?

  21. clambo


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    44   5:12pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Romney would be a fine president. He has had executive experience on the highest level below president (governor). He has also had *successful* business experience in the private sector.
    However, it's not rocket science how to try to improve the economy.
    Romney is so far the only candidate who says he supports E-verify. This would make it difficult for employers to hire illegal aliens.
    Romney does not have a sweeping tax reform plan, so he may be unsatisfactory for some conservatives.
    Romney also does not spout sweeping "moral issues" like Santorum.However, most people do not want to hear any nonsense from elected people about "values" unless they are talking about American values.
    I doubt we'll see Romney traveling the world to apologize for the USA and he surely won't be bowing and kowtowing to his foreign lessers either. We won't see Romney bow to a saudi prince who's descended from savage nomadic desert tribes.
    Rewarding failure and sloth is not a way to get Americans working again. Punishing success, capital and investment is not either.
    Making worthless wasteful (mal)investments in solar schemes, electric cars and windmill boondoggles is not going to be repeated.

  22. CL


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    45   6:14pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Not attacking here, but much of what you've said is rhetoric.

    To summarize:

    1) Governors are good. (All Governors have the requisite experience?)

    2) Promises to be tough on undocumented workers (Obama has deported more than Bush). Do Romney's promises mean anything?

    3) Romney is not palatable to conservatives

    4) Romney is distrusted by the evangelicals, a large part of the GOP coalition

    5) Saudi what? Bandar Bush? This is almost so inconsequential as to not warrant a response. But, again, because you doubt something doesn't make it so. Political promises are often broken, but with Romney you are guaranteed of it, since he's been on both sides of every issue!

    6) Rewarding failure and punishing success was what happened PRIOR to the bubble bursting. Unless we believe that Wall street brigandage is "success"?

    7) How is pioneering new technology less preferable to subsidizing old energy sources? Take battery technology--as batteries become stronger, lighter, more durable and contain more capacity, all of the devices that depend on them benefit.

    This is an endorsement of Romney? He made his money through brigandage!

  23. Nomograph


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    46   7:09pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    The GOP says

    ...Didn't vote.

    You voted for McCain; you posted all about it. You STILL need a box of kleenex every time someone mentions Sarah Palin.

  24. APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch


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    47   8:54pm Tue 14 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    If Romney wants the nomination, he should liquidate all his assets and buy guns for every neonazi and neoconfederate in America to prove his conservative credentials.

  25. EightBall


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    48   9:04am Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CL says

    Can Jehovah's witness businesses deny blood transfusion coverage for their employees? Or can Christian Scientists deny surgery or drug coverage?

    Believers can still refuse treatment, right? But employees aren't forced to believe what their employers believe.

    I'd say THAT infringes upon the employee's rights, and would result in a scarier outcome than offering, but not requiring, condoms for Catholic employees.

    Remember that this affects employees only, not religious institutions.

    Pregnancy is not a disease and not covering the pill on an insurance policy doesn't prevent anyone access to the pill. You're comparison isn't fair and is disingenuous.

    Let's put this awful law in the hands of the other side - suddenly HHS Secretary Palin decides that insurers must cover abstinence education as a benefit. Who would be crying foul then? If Sebelius can giveth, it can (and much more) be taken away. Why would we let what is covered and what is not covered be politicized like this? It's ridiculous. This is why the "death panel" argument is so plausible in many people's minds. This is why the law needs to be fully repealed or thrown out by the SCOTUS. We waited until it was passed to see what was in it - and now we know it is a turkey.

    So, one of the main arguments for this albatross was that people were going bankrupt on medical bills - and one of the solutions is to mandate the pill be covered by a religious institution that preaches against contraception? Really? A little overreaching don't you think? The Democrats had their chance to do this right and they blew it from my perspective.

  26. freak80


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    49   9:32am Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Cloud,

    You're beating a dead horse. Obama has banksters in the administration. We get it. So will Romney if he becomes President.

    The democrats are the only ones that even think of taxing the rich to help prevent an aristocracy. Guess who blocked any tax increases for the super rich? Oh yeah, that's right. The republicans.

    If you don't want Obama in the White House, who do you want in there? It's not enough to just be against something. Suggest a positive alternative.

  27. iwog


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    50   9:59am Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    The GOP says

    iwog says

    If you don't believe in universal health care, that's a reason to vote for a Republican.

    Really mandated inflated insurance premiums are "universal healthcare"?

    Iwog you and all Liberals have lost all hope and sight of what is real.

    You can shit in a can and call it dinner, it doesn't mean we have to eat it.

    Was that clear enough for you, or do you need a paragraph to break down each syllable?

    William E Baughb

    Universal health care is the ideal. Obamacare (or Newt Gingrich care) is the first attempt to move us in that direction.

    If you want to go in the opposite direction, if you want rich people to live 20 years longer on average than poor people, vote Republican.

  28. TPB


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    51   10:00am Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    wthrfrk80 says

    The democrats are the only ones that even think of taxing the rich to help prevent an aristocracy. Guess who blocked any tax increases for the super rich? Oh yeah, that's right. The republicans.

    That whole thought is as backwards as the Reagan era "Trickle Down economics". Taxing the Rich more doesn't explain how that will create more jobs and imporove the plight of the middle class. If it's just about creating a better "Poor on the dole" system. Then I say no thanks.

    Teach a man to fish and all that. I'd much rather have the fish comeback, so I can catch them myself, that to be feed Long John Silvers on Donald Trump's dime.

  29. iwog


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    52   10:01am Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    The GOP says

    That whole thought is as backwards as the Reagan era "Trickle Down economics". Taxing the Rich more doesn't explain how that will create more jobs and imporove the plight of the middle class. If it's just about creating a better "Poor on the dole" system. Then I say no thanks.

    Of course it does. It's a zero sum game and all money gets spent in the hands of the government.

    How can you not understand this?

  30. clambo


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    53   10:28am Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    cl I am not saying rhetoric. I am saying facts.
    The one standing candidate who said he would enforce E-verify to try to prevent illegal aliens from working here was Romney. He said it often in debates.
    The other candidates have no executive experience compared to Romney. Governor is an executive office.
    Poor people will always live shorter lives than rich. On the average, richer people are smarter and do not become obese, drunks, and they do healthy activities rather than be obese couch potatoes.
    I am in the minority that Romney care doesn't bother me because this was an attempt in Mass. to get more people insured who could afford to buy insurance, and an attempt to not let them leech off everyone else.
    I personally know illegal aliens here who have tens of thousands of dollars stashed at home, have built houses back in mexico, and they pay not one thin dime for their health care.

  31. leo707


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    54   10:44am Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    EightBall says

    Pregnancy is not a disease and not covering the pill on an insurance policy doesn't prevent anyone access to the pill. You're comparison isn't fair and is disingenuous.

    Surgery, drug coverage and pregnancy planning are not always life threatening or "necessary", but access to medical care improves health and increases the likelihood of a positive outcome.

    Not covering surgeries or drugs does not prevent access to them either. However, for low income people the financial hurdle can effectively prevent access to any medical care including family planning.

    Anyway, the point is whether or not a religious belief can be used to restrict health care options to an employee -- who may not share the same beliefs.

    I find CL's comparison to be both fair and ingenuous.

    EightBall says

    Let's put this awful law in the hands of the other side - suddenly HHS Secretary Palin decides that insurers must cover abstinence education as a benefit. Who would be crying foul then?

    Oh, this is an easy question; I am surprised that you don't know the answer...

    -- NO ONE --

    Yes, no one would be crying foul if insurers were required to cover abstinence education. I don't think that there is anyone -- anyone sane that is -- would would not agree that abstinence is the most effective way to prevent pregnancy and STDs. The problem arises when people want to teach abstinence exclusively at the expense of sex-ed. This is a foolish position, and we currently know that abstinence only education leads to equal if not higher levels of STDs and teen pregnancy just in the kids who "accept" the pledge. This says nothing to the other kids who are denied a comprehensive sex-ed.

  32. leo707


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    55   10:50am Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    The GOP says

    Teach a man to fish and all that. I'd much rather have the fish comeback, so I can catch them myself, that to be feed Long John Silvers on Donald Trump's dime.

    Yeah, but Trump already owns the lake with the fish, and all the game in the King's wood.

    If he is feeling generous he may let you do a little hunting and fishing, and you only have to give him 90% of your catch.

  33. HousingWatcher


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    56   12:04pm Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    I hope the lunch your eating right now meets federal nutritional guidelines cloud. Because you don't want to make the govternment angry, now do you???

  34. EBGuy


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    57   12:56pm Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Clambo said: We won't see Romney bow to a saudi prince who's descended from savage nomadic desert tribes...
    Making worthless wasteful (mal)investments in solar schemes, electric cars and windmill boondoggles is not going to be repeated.

    Well, its either one or the other. We currently get almost 10% of our oil imports from the Saudis (exceeded only by Canada & Mexico, with some African nations rising quickly). I'd rather keep that money in house than send it overseas like you want to do.

  35. leo707


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    58   2:16pm Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    "We won't see Romney bow to a saudi prince who's descended from savage nomadic desert tribes..."

    No, Romney just thinks that this guy, is a "prophet, seer, and revelator" of god's will on earth. i.e. - if this guy tells Romney to take a second wife, Romney does it. In fact if this guy tells Romney, "God wants me to marry your wife." Romney starts shopping for wedding gifts.

    Oh, yeah... and Romney thinks that his underpants have magical powers.

  36. EightBall


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    59   2:38pm Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    leoj707 says

    Anyway, the point is whether or not a religious belief can be used to restrict health care options to an employee -- who may not share the same beliefs.

    Pregnancy is not a disease. Pregnancy is the direct result of a decision to have sex not something you get from sitting on a dirty toilet or eating a rotten cheeseburger or the result of falling off a cliff. Not paying for insurance that covers the pill or the "morning after abortion inducing pill" is not restricting healthcare options. Hell, you can buy the morning after pill from a freaking vending machine now.

  37. CL


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    60   3:13pm Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    http://www.americablog.com/2012/02/how-mormons-and-scalia-prove-that-obama.html

    "In United States v. Lee, the Supreme Court found that there was nothing unconstitutional in requiring an Amish employer to withhold and pay Social Security taxes for his workers even though “the Amish faith prohibited participation in governmental support programs.”

    Here’s how they put it:

    “When followers of a particular sect enter into commercial activity as a matter of choice, the limits they accept on their own conduct as a matter of conscience and faith are not to be superimposed on the statutory schemes that are binding on others in that activity. Granting an exemption from social security taxes to an employer operates to impose the employer’s religious faith on the employees.”

  38. leo707


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    61   3:49pm Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    EightBall says

    Pregnancy is not a disease.

    Right, I thought we covered this. Neither is a broken bone, sprained ankle or tape worms, but they are all health issues.

    EightBall says

    Pregnancy is the direct result of a decision to have sex not something you get from sitting on a dirty toilet or eating a rotten cheeseburger or the result of falling off a cliff.

    If it abstinence only education programs have taught us anything it is that people have sex. Regardless of whether or not you feel that your god(s) don't want them to. You might not want to admit it but we are born addicted to sex. It is a basic human drive much stronger than people want to admit. It is entirely unrealistic to expect people to not engage in sexual activity, and that without proper precautions, pregnancy is a result.

    EightBall says

    Not paying for insurance that covers the pill or the "morning after abortion inducing pill" is not restricting healthcare options.

    Yes, it is. Birth control is a health care option, and while it may be difficult for those in an ivory tower to understand, the price of the pill will effect the health care choices of poor people.

    EightBall says

    Hell, you can buy the morning after pill from a freaking vending machine now.

    So you are suggesting the solution to expensive birth control like the pill is to provide cheap abortion pills in vending machines?

    Yes, yes... it is funny how people so opposed to abortion don't actually want to do anything to prevent the unplanned pregnancies that will result in abortions.

  39. iwog


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    62   4:33pm Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    EightBall says

    Pregnancy is not a disease. Pregnancy is the direct result of a decision to have sex not something you get from sitting on a dirty toilet or eating a rotten cheeseburger or the result of falling off a cliff. Not paying for insurance that covers the pill or the "morning after abortion inducing pill" is not restricting healthcare options. Hell, you can buy the morning after pill from a freaking vending machine now.

    The pill is cheaper than a pregnancy. Far cheaper. Like 100 to 1 cheaper, especially for a cesarian birth.

    This makes birth control very much a health issue.

  40. thomas.wong1986


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    63   5:09pm Wed 15 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Newt in 2012, with the option to vote for Mitt Romney.

    Anything but Obama, frankly will do.. even Ron Paul.

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