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The Most Marginalized Group in America


By Jeremy   Follow   Sun, 19 Feb 2012, 5:31pm   31,596 views   334 comments
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Straight white males between the ages of 18 and 54. As far as I can tell, this is the only group of Americans that can not form a group to promote themselves or their own advancement within American society. Am I wrong?

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  1. Nomograph


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    95   3:28pm Sat 25 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Jeremy says

    Clearly this is a double standard.

    Congratulations, you've developed a firm mastery of the obvious.

    The world is filled with double, triple, quadruple, and higher order standards. Many of these multiple standards have evolved or were created for very good reasons.

    Jeremy says

    white males (but actually whites in general) can NOT organize a group that promotes white males.

    Total bullshit. You are 100% free to organize a group that promotes white males. For example, here is the National Organization for the Advancement of White People:

    http://naawp.org.tripod.com/

    Instead of playing victim, why don't you simple join this group, or organize one of your own liking?

  2. Nomograph


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    96   5:26pm Sat 25 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    There's actually a large number of groups dedicated to the advancement of white people.

    Instead of playing victim why don't you join one, Jeremy? Or better yet, start your own.

    * American Third Position Party, is an American political party which promotes white supremacism. It was founded in 2010, and defines its principal mission as representing the political interests of white Americans.

    * American Nazi Party, is a neo-Nazi organization based largely upon the ideals and policies of Adolf Hitler's NSDAP in Germany during the Third Reich but claims that it is in conformance with the Constitutional principles of the U.S.'s Founding Fathers. It also supports Holocaust denial.

    * Aryan Nations, is a white supremacist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian.

    * Council of Conservative Citizens, is an American political organization that supports a large variety of conservative and paleoconservative causes in addition to white supremacism.

    * Creativity Movement, (formerly known as the World Church of the Creator) is a white supremacist politico organization that advocates the racialist religion, Creativity. Mainly religious rather than political, the radical Creativity Movement, founded by Ben Klassen in 1973, worships the white race itself rather than any deity, and advocates a radical form of white supremacism known as RAHOWA.

    * EURO, is a white supremacist organization in the United States. Led by former Louisiana state representative and presidential primary candidate David Duke, it was founded in 2000.

    * European Americans United, is a white supremacist organization founded in January 2007. Professing to stress an incremental approach to social change and moderate stances, European Americans United rejects Nazism, fascism, and hatred.

    * Ku Klux Klan, often abbreviated KKK and informally known as The Klan, is the name of three distinct past and present right-wing[30] organizations in the United States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy and nationalism.

    * National Alliance, is a white supremacist political organization. It was founded by William Luther Pierce, and is based in the Pierce family's compound in Hillsboro, West Virginia.

    * National Association for the Advancement of White People, is a white supremacist organization in the United States incorporated on December 14, 1953 in Delaware by Bryant Bowles which presents itself as a civil rights organization such as the NAACP.

    * National Policy Institute, is a think tank based in Augusta, Georgia in the United States. It describes itself as the right's answer to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    * National Socialist American Labor Party, is a neo-Nazi political party formally founded by Christopher Krebs in March 2008

    * National Socialist Movement (United States), a party founded in 1974. Since 2005 the party has become very active, staging many marches and demonstrations.

    * National Vanguard, was an American National Socialist organization based in Charlottesville, Virginia, founded by Kevin Alfred Strom and former members of the National Alliance.

    * Nationalist Movement, is a Mississippi-based, white supremacist organization that advocates what it calls a "pro-majority" position. It has been called white supremacist by the Associated Press and Anti-Defamation League, among others.

    * Occidental Quarterly, is a printed far-right quarterly journal with a web segment, TOQ Online, including interviews, essays and reviews on the website.

    * The Order, or BrĂ¼der Schweigen ("Silent Brotherhood") was a white supremacist Revolutionary organization founded by Robert Jay Matthews, active 1983-1984, probably best known for the 1984 murder of talk show host Alan Berg.

    * Pacifica Forum, is a controversial discussion group in Eugene, Oregon, United States. It has been listed as a white nationalist hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

    * Phineas Priesthood, is a Christian Identity movement that opposes interracial intercourse, the mixing of races, homosexuality, and abortion. It is also marked by its anti-Semitism, anti-multiculturalism, and opposition to taxation.

    * * Volksfront, describes itself as an international fraternal organization for persons of European descent. It has been called "neo-Nazi" and a "racist-skinhead group" in press reports. The Anti-Defamation League has called the group "one of the most active skinhead groups in the United States." The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has added Volksfront to its list of hate groups.

    * White Aryan Resistance, is a neo-Nazi white supremacist organization founded and led by former Ku Klux Klan leader Tom Metzger.

  3. Kevin


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    97   7:31pm Sat 25 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    White people believing that they're being more discriminated against is perception, not fact.

    White males do not need an advocacy group. We are the dominant, mainstream, majority culture. Historically marginalized groups are the ones who need advocacy groups.

    It really is this simple.

  4. Honest Abe


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    98   5:49am Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Kevin, there are wonderful examples of every "group" in America pulling thermselves up with their own labor. Everyone applaud's that, inspiring success stories that lift our spirits is part of the American dream.

    What many dislike is the preferential treatment showered upon the government approved few. As if those groups are incapable of helping themselves, who need extra help because life's not fair, or they are too stupid to figure out life's rules, or they need a caring government to coddle their every need, or they need to get put at the head of the line because of something that happened 250 years ago, or to help level the playing field, blah, blah blah, whine, whine whine. Liberal hogwash.

    Shut up, get to work, bust your balls, and make something out of your life. Stop complaining and demanding a double standard of prefential treatment.

    Stop judging people by their skin color, it only makes YOU a racist. How about treating everyone EQUAL, thats the liberal password, right?

    Todays book: Animal Farm Geo. Orwell

    Good day, Abe

  5. Nomograph


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    99   7:24am Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Honest Abe says

    What many dislike is the preferential treatment showered upon the government approved few.

    Disagreement with Affirmative Action has NOTHING to do with your claim of being marginalized because you are a white male.

    Dishonest Abe: I'm marginalized because I'm white.

    Everyone: Huh? How are whites marginalized?

    Dishonest Abe: See, hahahah! All you racist stupid libs support Affirmative Action!

    Do you understand why you come off as a simpleton who simply repeats what he hears on AM talk radio?

  6. Scagnetti


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    100   8:01am Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Nomograph says

    There's actually a large number of groups dedicated to the advancement of white people.

    Instead of playing victim why don't you join one, Jeremy? Or better yet, start your own.

    * American Third Position Party, is an American political party which promotes white supremacism. It was founded in 2010, and defines its principal mission as representing the political interests of white Americans.

    * American Nazi Party, is a neo-Nazi organization based largely upon the ideals and policies of Adolf Hitler's NSDAP in Germany during the Third Reich but claims that it is in conformance with the Constitutional principles of the U.S.'s Founding Fathers. It also supports Holocaust denial.

    * Aryan Nations, is a white supremacist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian.

    Nomograph's argument is transparent here. Every group he named, is or has been labeled as a white supremacist or "hate" group. He is attempting to label all white groups who are racially solidified as racist. There are black supremacist groups too such as.....

    -Nation of Islam
    -New Black Panther Party
    -United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors
    -Tribu Ka
    -Nation of Yahweh
    -Bobo Shanti
    etc. etc.

    This does not mean that all black groups are racist. Nor is Nomograph suggesting this. He is saying that....

    Nomograph says

    The world is filled with double, triple, quadruple, and higher order standards. Many of these multiple standards have evolved or were created for very good reasons.

    Many of these multiple standards have evolved or were created for very good reasons huh? Since the context of this thread is whites, you must be preaching that whites SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to form a group for good reasons. What are these reasons?

    Remember what I said before?

    Scagnetti says

    It's possible to organize a fellowship of all whites promoting the advancement of "white people". You need to be ready to be called a "racist","nazi", "kkk member" etc. etc. See below......

    APOCALYPSEFUCK is Tony Manero says

    Isn't this what the klan and the militia movement and, lately, the teabaggers were all about?

    The anti-white figureheads, pundits, and parrots will come out in force to discredit a group like that any way possible. The most common tactic would be to call the group "racist". It doesn't matter if anything they say is true or not, what matters is the label.

    It looks like Nomograph has degenerated to the point where he will insinuate that any racially conscious white group is racist, just like I said would happen above. Am I a psychic or do you think this type of illogical reasoning has been used before?

  7. Scagnetti


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    101   8:22am Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    Nomograph says

    Disagreement with Affirmative Action has NOTHING to do with your claim of being marginalized because you are a white male.

    It has everything to do with discrimination! Affirmative action gives preferential treatment to non whites and women based on there sex and race. The program is inherently biased! It is supposed to be, "the best person gets the job".

    The majority of Americans believe that affirmative action gives preferential treatment to minorities and women. http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/0623.htm

    The majority of Americans believe that affirmative action should be abolished. http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1307

  8. Scagnetti


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    102   8:39am Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Kevin says

    White people believing that they're being more discriminated against is perception, not fact.

    White males do not need an advocacy group. We are the dominant, mainstream, majority culture. Historically marginalized groups are the ones who need advocacy groups.

    It really is this simple.

    Here is a fact. From 1998 to 2008, there was a 45 percent rise in race based discrimination filings by whites! (Scott Cannon, "More Whites Complaining to EEOC of Racial Discrimination" Kansas City Star, July 28, 2009.)

  9. marcus


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    103   9:13am Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    "Affirmative action" is complicated. Its intent was to prevent discrimination. Only sometimes, and more so in the past does this translate to " preferential treatment to non whites and women."

    Preferential treatment to non whites and women makes more sense to me in some places than others, and it's usually done voluntarily, more than because of fear of consequences. This is especially true within corporations that sometimes go out of their way to promote having a diverse workforce.

    It's fascinating to me, that the same people who complain about welfare also complain about this. IF in the future you want to be justified in telling people that they only have themselves to blame for not having a good job, then the workplace environments out there have to be diverse.

    Don't we all at least partially understand the complexity of this? And probably many of us, myself included, have some ambivalence about it when it comes to for example med school or law school admissions.

    But at the same time it's an example (before the current fascist era) of our government, corporations and educational institutions addressing a really tough issue that didn't have a perfect solution.

    This is a good description of the evolution of affirmative action. IF you are just going to read part, check out #6 and #7 about med schools. Quotas were deemed unconstitutional, and yet affirmative action survived.
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/affirmative-action/

  10. Kevin


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    104   3:10pm Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Scagnetti says

    Nomograph says

    Disagreement with Affirmative Action has NOTHING to do with your claim of being marginalized because you are a white male.

    It has everything to do with discrimination! Affirmative action gives preferential treatment to non whites and women based on there sex and race. The program is inherently biased! It is supposed to be, "the best person gets the job".

    The majority of Americans believe that affirmative action gives preferential treatment to minorities and women. http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/0623.htm

    The majority of Americans believe that affirmative action should be abolished. http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1307

    Of course Affirmative action gives preferential treatment to women and minorties -- THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE PROGRAM!

    There will come a day when affirmative action is no longer needed, but that day hasn't come yet.

    And, yes, the majority of people (i.e. the non-marginalized groups) would OF COURSE believe such programs should be abolished. They've always opposed them.

    Affirmative action was not "intended to prevent discrimination". It was intended to try to close the achievement gap between men and women, between whites and minorities. It has worked to some extent, but it's not done yet.

  11. marcus


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    105   4:42pm Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike  

    Kevin says

    Affirmative action was not "intended to prevent discrimination." It was intended to try to close the achievement gap between men and women, between whites and minorities.

    Actually, better probably to describe it as being about providing equal opportunity, where preventing discrimination and closing the achievement gap would be indirect results of this. Often times, providing equal opportunity goes hand in hand with not discriminating, especially in lower skill jobs.

    In any case, the language used by the government has been that of anti-discrimination or "non-discriminatory practices."

    Kennedy and Johnson's executive orders on affirmative action:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_10925

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11246

  12. TPB


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    106   5:35pm Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    We live in a country where Apoo the immigrant behind the counter at the quickie mart, could be president if he really sat his mind to it, and had enough people that dug his stuff.

    I think at this point, nobody should get an unfair advantage awarded to them, over anyone. People need to quit trying to Handicap society. Those that want to, will aspire to, and those that don't will only screw it up, until they do. You can't poke someone laying in the gutter and say "you there! here take this coat and go manage the FED" Well you could, but we probably shouldn't ever do it again. It's no different than handing a broom to a successful entrepreneur and telling him to go sweep the street.

  13. clambo


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    107   6:20pm Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    I was listening to KGO radio while driving this afternoon. The lady talking was a woman I don't know who, and she was conversing with some other woman about the Academy Awards (Oscars).
    The second one was explaining who exactly comprised the Academy who of course vote on which movie, actor, actress, etc. is their favorite.
    "Most of them are white men, over 65. They're like a bunch of college professors in the 70's or something"
    The response from the KGO babe was derisive laughter and some comment about how they are not really making any strides in "diversity", and it was as if this organization was POISONOUS for being comprised of so many white successful men. Imagine the injustice!

  14. thomas.wong1986


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    108   10:09pm Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Kevin says

    There will come a day when affirmative action is no longer needed, but that day hasn't come yet.

    50 years is plenty of time in which success has been acheived.
    Again, I remind you of the current president in office.

  15. Kevin


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    109   11:42pm Sun 26 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    TPB says

    We live in a country where Apoo the immigrant behind the counter at the quickie mart, could be president if he really sat his mind to it, and had enough people that dug his stuff.

    Other than the part of the constitution that bars immigrants from being President, right?

    TPB says

    I think at this point, nobody should get an unfair advantage awarded to them, over anyone.

    I agree. Lets make sure that all schools have the exact same amount of money, all children are raised by equally competent parents, and nobody is allowed to inherit anything.

    thomas.wong1986 says

    50 years is plenty of time in which success has been acheived.
    Again, I remind you of the current president in office.

    You can't make up for a millenia of discrimination with 50 years.

    And a single half-black president doesn't mean that there's nothing left to do. There's still a massive educational, employment, income, business ownership, and government representation gap between white males and most other groups.

    Hey, at least this conversation has moved from the fantasy land of "white men are the most marginalized group" to something that is actually a somewhat reasonable discussion.

  16. thomas.wong1986


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    110   2:22am Mon 27 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Kevin says

    You can't make up for a millenia of discrimination with 50 years.
    And a single half-black president doesn't mean that there's nothing left to do. There's still a massive educational, employment, income, business ownership, and government representation gap between white males and most other groups.

    Should it be 75, 100, or 200 years...and who is to decide that ?

    How many black presidents/congressmen must we have until so called discrimination has ended?
    How many black CEOs and doctors must we have ?

    Whats the quota you have in mind...

    This all sounds like demands of some marxist guerrilla group holding out in the jungles of Peru demanding some power sharing structure from the government without actually having to do any work.

    Kevin says

    Hey, at least this conversation has moved from the fantasy land of "white men are the most marginalized group" to something that is actually a somewhat reasonable discussion.

    Keep repeating that and being in denial. My answer is NO, your wrong!

  17. kentm


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    111   4:55am Mon 27 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    thomas.wong1986 says

    Should it be 75, 100, or 200 years...and who is to decide that ?

    I suppose it could start being 'decided' when studies like the one below no longer reveal biases in the systems that have been traditionally and pretty much forever controlled by aging white men. To summarize, the study reveals that gender biasses completely influence hiring practices at most symphonies in favor of white males, and that these biases are eliminated when applicant musicians are tested behind screens - IE the talent is allowed to speak for itself and applicants aren't screened out or marginalized because they're women.

    http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/01/0212/7b.shtml

    "Efforts to conceal the identities of musicians auditioning for spots in symphony orchestras significantly boost the chances of women to succeed, a study co-written by a Princeton economist suggests.

    Traditionally, women have been underrepresented in American and European orchestras. Renowned (male) conductors have asserted that female musicians have "smaller techniques," are more temperamental and are simply unsuitable for orchestras, and some European orchestras do not hire women at all. Proving discrimination in hiring practices, however, has been difficult."

    On being white in America and being offended by affirmative action... A friend of mine describes it as such: "Imagine someone who has been been riding a bicycle downhill with the wind at their back for so long they've forgotten that they're going downhill with the wind pushing them. Then, when they see someone coming in the opposite direction, struggling up the hill against the wind they just assume the problem is with individual and say "hey, what's their problem? We're both just riding bikes..."

    thomas.wong1986 says

    Keep repeating that and being in denial. My answer is NO, your wrong

    Thomas, unfortunately you pretty clearly just don't understand the concept, and making an assumption based on your log in name - that your family is heritage is chinese - I find that kind of surprising, unless I suppose you actually are pretty deep denial. Have you looked into the kind of immigration practices that were in place in California not many years ago for people coming in from china? Do a bit of reading on Angel Island. Would you be arguing to keep those policies in place were they still policy?

    Affirmative action is a very enlightened method to attempt enrich our entire culture & society, over the continued preferential treatment of one group. And frankly I applaud if for no other simple reason that it gets more hot multi-cultuaral chicks into the workforce. ;-). However, if your personal philosophy is one based on personal selfishness at the expense of others then I would indeed see why you'd have a harder time understanding or accepting the concepts.

  18. Nomograph


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    112   7:19am Mon 27 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    I loves me some Obama.

    Shoo fly, don't bother me now.

  19. TPB


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    113   7:29am Mon 27 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Kevin says

    I agree. Lets make sure that all schools have the exact same amount of money, all children are raised by equally competent parents, and nobody is allowed to inherit anything.

    So you do admit liberals think most Black families, are headed by sheer incompetence? That's why the Liberals so desperately try to keep under some government or state wardship. And the Liberals want to take from those that are well off, especially those that inherited from a family and give it to them?

    Your comeback is why I think Liberals are too incompetent to lead.
    The dishonesty in the Republicans can be augmented by subpoenas, but like Scooter sez, you can't fix fucking stupid. This is why I would vote Palin/Buchanan(anyone for that matter) over Obama.

  20. Scagnetti


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    114   8:58am Mon 27 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Kevin says

    Of course Affirmative action gives preferential treatment to women and minorties -- THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE PROGRAM!

    Yes, and the program has been built on a base of poor reasoning. It has been wrong since it started and it still is today. We are trying to cure racism and sexism with a racist and sexist policy? Isn't this government approved discrimination? Do the ends justify the means?

  21. marcus


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    115   4:40pm Mon 27 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Nobody is trying to cure anything. Only accelerate the change. Black and white authoritarian minded thinkers aren't good at solving problems that don't have nice solutions. Speaking of which...

    TPB says

    you can't fix fucking stupid

    Just because you can't comprehend it, doesn't make it stupid. In fact,...well nevermind.

  22. thomas.wong1986


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    116   5:24pm Mon 27 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    kentm says

    women have been underrepresented in American and European

    If women have no interest in a given profession, you cannot have govt mandate to require any under represented group (women) to occupy such professions all for the sake of 'equal representation'. Why do Orchestras ? why not do auto mechanics.. Are many women interested in being mechanics ? Not really...

    It just gets stupider and stupider..

  23. tatupu70


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    117   5:43pm Mon 27 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    thomas.wong1986 says

    If women have no interest in a given profession, you cannot have govt mandate to require any under represented group (women) to occupy such professions all for the sake of 'equal representation'. Why do Orchestras ? why not do auto mechanics.. Are many women interested in being mechanics ? Not really...

    Thomas--you really aren't that dense. Did you read the study? It was proven discrimination.

    I'll agree with one thing though--it does just get stupider and stupider. Although I don't think we are talking about the same things....

  24. Kevin


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    118   10:41pm Mon 27 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    I hate white men. Or at least the ones posting on this thread.

  25. Scagnetti


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    119   4:52am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    marcus says

    Nobody is trying to cure anything. Only accelerate the change.

    Accelerate the change to what Marcus? What exactly is supposed to be the ultimate goal? A color blind and gender blind society?

  26. Scagnetti


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    120   5:16am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Kevin says

    I hate white men. Or at least the ones posting on this thread.

    Are you going to have another "mofo" outburst? Talk about anti-white hate speech!

  27. freak80


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    121   5:48am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    It's just skin reflectivity...

    Will we ever have a "color blind" society? This thread seems to indicate a clear "no."

  28. marcus


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    122   6:08am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Scagnetti says

    Accelerate the change to what Marcus? What exactly is supposed to be the ultimate goal?

    We know that within decades caucasians will be a minority in the US. Even from the most simplistic economic point of view, it should be clear that if strides aren't made in promoting diversity in the academic and corporate world, then we as a country are in trouble.

    As it is, I think we have and are making strides, and as a country we do diversity better than most others, which might be a big edge for us by 2200.

    As for females, I'm not so worried about equality for women. As a high school teacher, I can tell you, women (girls) are doing great. The old beliefs about girls in Math and science are out the window. Along with this change in perception is the fact that in adolescence girls are often more focused, organized and disciplined than boys.

  29. marcus


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    123   6:14am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    IT might not be clear why this is so relevant, but,... fact:

    Academic success in grades k - 12 is very highly correlated to being middle class (or above). And this isn't just because of bad nutrition, single parent households, distractions of gangs and so on in poor neighborhoods. It's a cultural thing. Poor kids typically don't believe in the system and in the opportunity that school presents (maybe in part a reflection of their parents beliefs and fears about the system).

    It's not that simple, but giving someone a good opportunity affects more than just his or her prospects. It's going to affect their children too.

  30. Scagnetti


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    124   6:22am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    marcus says

    Preferential treatment to non whites and women makes more sense to me in some places than others, and it's usually done voluntarily, more than because of fear of consequences. This is especially true within corporations that sometimes go out of their way to promote having a diverse workforce.

    Really? Companies would voluntarily do this without the fear of consequences?

    In fiscal year 2007, the EEOC received 30,510 formal complaints or racial discrimination, 9,369 complaints of nationality discrimination, and 2,880 reports of religious discrimination, for a total of 42,759 discrimination cases (Jennifer C. Kerr, "Job Discrimination Complaints Jump", Associate Press, March 5, 2008).

    Also, keep in mind many more complaints were probably dealt with "in house", through the companies own grievance procedures.

    Robert P. Hartwig, Vice president of the insurance information institute says, "Sooner or later, virtually every medium to large size company is likely to find itself the defendant in a discrimination or sexual harassment lawsuit". He estimates that 60% of all companies are named in one of these lawsuits every 5 years. When asked why he responded, "The 21st century's racially and ethnically diverse workforce is a potential powder keg."

    With all the potential pitfalls, why would a company care to promote diversity? Companies are interested in making money, not social changes.

  31. tatupu70


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    125   6:29am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Scagnetti says

    Companies are interested in making money, not social changes.

    Exactly--are you implying that promoting diversity reduces profits?

  32. Scagnetti


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    126   6:40am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    marcus says

    We know that within decades caucasians will be a minority in the US. Even from the most simplistic economic point of view, it should be clear that if strides aren't made in promoting diversity in the academic and corporate world, then we as a country are in trouble.

    This has been self inflicted. Changes in our immigration policy have opened the flood gates. If the goal is to have a strong academic and corporate world, maybe we should be more selective in who we let in the country.

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    127   6:44am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    tatupu70 says

    Scagnetti says

    Companies are interested in making money, not social changes.

    Exactly--are you implying that promoting diversity reduces profits?

    No, I'm saying hiring someone less qualified and effective will reduce profits.

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    128   6:47am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    marcus says

    it should be clear that if strides aren't made in promoting diversity in the academic and corporate world, then we as a country are in trouble.

    You're a teacher right Marcus? Do you really want me to throw up charts of the large racial gap in standardized tests? Show me where improvements have been made here.

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    129   6:55am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Scagnetti says

    No, I'm saying hiring someone less qualified and effective will reduce profits.

    There's the problem. The orchestra study proved that employers don't always know what to measure to determine who is qualified or effective and inherent biases can play a large role. Many companies have found that adding diversity has proven to add more efffective people.

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    130   7:15am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    tatupu70 says

    Many companies have found that adding diversity has proven to add more efffective people.

    What is a more "diversified" company than the United States Armed Forces. Lets look at them shall we?

    In 1997, 40 thousand soldiers were questioned in a government mandated survey about race relations. Two thirds of the soldiers said they suffered from "insensitive language" to racial threats or violence. That would be 63% of Whites, 76% of blacks, 79% of Hispanics, and 76% of American Indians.

    When asked if opportunities for their race had improved......16% of whites thought so, 39% of Blacks, 47% of Hispanics, and 41% of Indians.

    The pentagon delayed the release of this report for 2 years because it was so embarrassed.

    Adding diversity for diversity's sake is not productive. Selecting the best person for the job is.

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    131   7:31am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    marcus says

    IT might not be clear why this is so relevant, but,... fact:

    Academic success in grades k - 12 is very highly correlated to being middle class (or above). And this isn't just because of bad nutrition, single parent households, distractions of gangs and so on in poor neighborhoods. It's a cultural thing. Poor kids typically don't believe in the system and in the opportunity that school presents (maybe in part a reflection of their parents beliefs and fears about the system).

    It's not that simple, but giving someone a good opportunity affects more than just his or her prospects. It's going to affect their children too.

    Marcus is right in one way. For each race, SAT scores go up the further along a person is on the income ladder. Still, there is a large racial gap. It cannot be overcome by raising a child's living conditions. This experiment has failed.

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    133   7:33am Tue 28 Feb 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

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