WatchIn almost all cases I know about, Republicans are overwhelmingly responsible for fucking with the voting process. They led drives for absentee voting when they thought it would benefit their party, and they led drives to repeal absentee voting in the very same states after Obama reaped the benefits. They constantly push for tighter restrictions on voter ID while at the same time screaming that all military votes should be counted even if the ballots violate state law. To date, the only prosecutions I'm aware of for voting machine fraud is entirely with Republicans. http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8514
However it appears that Democrats have learned a trick from the pubes. Correctly figuring that a win by Santorum in Michigan would throw the primary race in total chaos, cost all Republican candidates millions of dollars, and make this race even more of a circus than it already is, Democrats are expected to vote heavily for Santorum in Michigan's open primary.
Look for lawsuits to follow regardless.
Follow
Befriend (41)
91 threads
1,806 comments
http://freebeacon.com/trashing-tricare/
It is unbelievable that BO is still in the race
Follow
Befriend (5)
1,070 comments
Santa Cruz, CA
Do you get a kick out of writing such nonsense? Republicans haven't picked Santorum.
The only other candidate who was ever a real challenger to Romney was Perry and he dropped out.
As far as "Republican voters are not qualified to pick the president" you forgot how Obama got elected. Who do you think helped elect Obama? It wasn't entirely welfare queens, gays, minorities, illiterates and sterno bums. Many voters who were also Republicans from time to time must have voted for him too in 2008.
So, in your mind, if they voted for Obama they are qualified, but if they don't, they are not?
Follow
Befriend
44 comments
This thread deserves jail. What a bunch of rubbish from the OP.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,576 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
clambo says
Republicans as a party are not qualified to pick the president. It's not necessarily because of who they pick, (other than freaks like Palin and Bachmann) it's because they are so easily manipulated by the media that they can't be trusted.
Anyway individual Republicans might be qualified to pick the president, but as a unified party they are a total failure.
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
The Republican nomination process is a big clown show at this point.
Romney is the only sane one...except he thinks corporations are people.
Follow
Befriend (13)
787 threads
1,542 comments
Actually it is believable that Santorum is still running, because he gets his major funding from Man Atop the Horse.
What is ridiculous is that the majority of mainstream Republicans who participate in this farcical primary/caucus voting process continue to keep him alive in the race.
I think what Iwog is alluding to when he says
iwog says
is that mainstream Republicans are either willfully ignorant or easily manipulated.
Of course the same thing can be said about the whole "election process" of the country itself.
Superpacs kill democracy.
Follow
Befriend (12)
10 threads
3,516 comments
Oakland, CA
leo707's website
Premium
wthrfrk80 says
Hmmm... sane? Well maybe the most sane.
But...
He also thinks that his underwear has magical powers, and that someday he will be the literal god of his very own planet.
Follow
Befriend (3)
8 threads
335 comments
Not a new idea. Not ethical; no matter who is doing it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show#Operation_Chaos
Follow
Befriend (13)
52 threads
2,639 comments
Premium
uomo_senza_nome says
Fixed.
Follow
Befriend (12)
140 threads
1,355 comments
Emeryville, CA
The Repugnicans are in complete disarray and have no decent candidates and a fractured electorate with no philosophical bearings. They are apoplectic about taxes while they are lower than they've been for decades, Obama has kicked their asses on foreign policy, the stock market has restored 10s of trillions of dollars to the American consumers, and confidence is growing.
Their new standard bearer gave them Romneycare, pays 13% in taxes and ranks among the top .00001% of the world's wealthiest. Or maybe you think a condom hating Sanctorum, the philandering Gingrich or the Stormfront-y Paul will earn that title---either way, the party is doomed to insignificance for the foreseeable future.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,576 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
msilenus says
Yup, that's exactly my point in the initial post! Republicans are well known for screwing with the electoral process. I think most teabaggers would agree that the end justifies the means.
This is what you get when a corporation like Fox is given unlimited power to manipulate the masses, and masses of Republicans who take their cue from radio and television pundits.
Oh sure this was tried in 2008 against the Democrats, however Democrats ignored all the bullshit about Ayers being a terrorist and Rev. Wright being an American-hating zealot and the lies Fox published about Michelle Obama using the term whitey.
To their credit, Democrats ignored all this manufactured stupidity and simply voted for the one they thought would be the best president. Independents as well. Republicans don't seem to be capable of clear enough thinking to even pick one guy.
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
leoj707 says
Yeah, Mormonism is a wacky offshoot from Christianity, but he's not invoking his religion as part of his campaign...unlike Santorum.
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
CL says
I'm not sure if Obama can take credit for that one. It probably has more to do with free money from Helicopter Ben.
Agree that the Republicans aren't putting forth any better alternatives to Obama.
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
iwog says
I don't care for mass mind-control (oops, I mean "mass media") of any kind. Too easy for a powerful few to control the many.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,576 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
wthrfrk80 says
I agree, which is why the fairness doctrine should be restored. This country became powerful under many laws that right wing Republicans have decimated over the years.
Follow
Befriend
53 threads
658 comments
Clearly, the system is broken. I miss the days when a handful of white men of stature and merit picked the President in a smoke filled room serviced by cigarette girls in short skirts.
At least we all agree, when everything goes to shit we blame a Negro or a Jew.
Follow
Befriend (3)
8 threads
335 comments
iwog says
This position is under-supported. One set of convictions in Kansas does not justify a blanket claim of corruption. The banal but fortunate fact is that election fraud in the United States is exceedingly rare, on both sides.
There's a lesser degree of "screwing with" the process, of course, but both parties are guilty of such shennanigans. Republicans love scrubbing their voter databases and making other efforts to look for criminals and other inelligible voters, but will probably accidentally catch a few more Democrats than Republicans. Meanwhile Democrats strive to block serious efforts at curbing even illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants may not vote, but such non-policy fuels a long-term demographic trend that is ruinous for their political opponents.
They're both trying to put their finger on the scale, but when you get past dodgy policy and look at stuff that's illegal, or which ought to be and realistically could be illegal, both sides are mostly good. When you include dodgy policy, both sides are mostly terrible.
Follow
Befriend (12)
140 threads
1,355 comments
Emeryville, CA
msilenus says
Off the top of my head, I can think of the Brooks' Brothers riots, (and all of Bush v. Gore), Rutherfraud B. Hayes, and what was Nixon's goal, if not to make certain he'd win the election?
It could be a coincidence, but there are a lot of Rs in attempted theft of elections!
Follow
Befriend (3)
8 threads
335 comments
And I said rare, not non-existent. But we can disagree with Bush v. Gore without calling it criminal, and it's doubtful there was an organized intent to create a riot. Organizing a protest is not morally gray.
Beyond a certain point, water needs to pass under the bridge. How many politicians from Nixon's day are still influential in the party? It's a different generation. Do you saddle the modern Democrats with the moral legacy of the the Southern Democratic faction? I'd wager not.
Hayes? Be serious.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,576 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
msilenus says
There was no blanket claim of corruption, in fact there was no claim of corruption at all.
My claim was that Republicans are overwhelmingly responsible for fucking with the voting process and it was well supported. Rush Limbaugh's operation chaos is another example.
Democrats are far more willing to simply have an election and see who wins.
Follow
Befriend (2)
7 threads
530 comments
Belmont, CA
The two party system is a fraud.
Believing in the party system means you believe in the establishment, because both parties are authoritarian pro establishment.
And you are pro establishment as you desire to gain your income from renting to destitute people and need the establishment, insurance, police, to protect you and your rentier income.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,576 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
There are fundamental and real differences between Democrats and Republicans.
The Republicans' total contempt for process is one. The Republicans' total contempt for judicial precedent is another. The tendency to viciously attack any Republican congressman who gets out of line is a third.
The lie that both parties are the same is what got us here in the first place. There's far more black and white than grey.
Follow
Befriend (5)
1,070 comments
Santa Cruz, CA
So this whole nonsense is now over for Santorum. His little chickenshit ploy didn't succeed.
Follow
Befriend (7)
30 threads
1,220 comments
31 male
Premium
The government doesn't give section 8 money to poor losers. They give it to landlords.
Same thing with the food stamps. That's just a handout to big so called "food" corps
I cannot believe that grown adults still believe that anything changes with a different president. I've been a working adult thru the Clinton years, Bush and now Obama. The only change I ever noticed was during the Clinton years, the growth of the police state and the degredation of my personal property rights. Otherwise, you wouldn't notice the changes unless the media told you.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,576 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
clambo says
Of course it succeeded and gained Santorum a bunch of delegates. He may even get more than Romney when the final count is in.
You DID understand this wasn't a winner take all state right?
Furthermore Romney barely running in the state he grew up in doesn't bode well for him as a candidate.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,576 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
errc says
Things change radically with different presidents. Some of the most important Supreme Court decisions were 5-4 with Democrats and Republicans on different sides. Had Gore won in 2000, those decisions would be radically different and super pacs wouldn't exist right now.
Bush winning caused trillions of additional deficit spending, an unnecessary war in Iraq, and quite probably the banking crisis since the Bush administration squashed all justice department enforcement and investigation.
I can't believe grown adults would believe otherwise.
Follow
Befriend (5)
1,070 comments
Santa Cruz, CA
bullshit, Bush caused the banking and subprime mess. Even Bill Moyers doesn't spout that nonsense.
Moyers had an interesting program on it and he went back to the roots of the problem: Sandy Weill, Robert Rubin, Greenspan all believing that banks were too regulated.
Weill (Travelers Insurance) bought Citi (legally it could not be the other way) with the assurances that the resulting entity would be able to operate legally.
They led to repealing Glass-Steagall in 1998. I realize that many in Congress and the Senate were also convinced of the whole stupid idea.
Spending on wars is always hugely expensive and of course Congress had a vote authorizing Bush to use force in Iraq. This was not a unilateral decision by any means, although all the hypocrite democrats who voted for it would like to revise history and disavow their own conscious acts.
"If I knew then what I know now...." "I voted for it before I voted against it....(or was that the other way? I forget).
Santorum won't win shit, his chickenshit ploy got him nothing but a few delegates, he's still going nowhere.
As he should. Catholics like Santorum are like Muslim lite with their fuckin rules and whatnot. Once you could not eat meat on Fridays, and then boom, it's OK again. The Pope says contraception is wrong. Come on, tell that to the starving masses in Africa.
Either way, a girl can do whatever the she wants as long as Obama doesn't make me pay for it.
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
clambo says
Agree. That's the source of so much of our current mess.
Follow
Befriend (1)
104 threads
2,851 comments
wthrfrk80 says
I thought the CRA caused the housing bubble, and Obama was born in Kenya.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,576 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
clambo says
Reagan-style deregulation caused the subprime mess. The free market caused the subprime mess. Everything Republicans stand for caused the subprime mess.
Would things have been different if there was no Bush? Maybe. Would things have been different if there were no Republicans? Oh hell yes. Even the bills Clinton signed were Republican wet dreams.
Follow
Befriend (4)
28 threads
776 comments
But Reagan simply followed in the footsteps of carter.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/article/2009/apr/06/00014/
He also deregulated the airlines, trucking industry and rail and legalized home brewing of alcohol. Also relations with PATCO suffered with Carter which was obviously extended with reagan when he fired them.
We haven't had a real liberal president since Nixon. Obama might try but there is only so much the president can do without congress.
Follow
Befriend (13)
787 threads
1,542 comments
clambo says
If you have to trace the subprime mess, you have to go all the way back to 1981 (Reagan). That's the start of the financial sector domination over American Politics. All the good things that happened under FDR started getting undone since then and shit fully fell apart in 2008.
Follow
Befriend (5)
1,070 comments
Santa Cruz, CA
You can't rewrite history.
The process leading to disaster began with Sandy Weill, Rubin, Greenspan.
The 2000 Commodities Futures Modernization Act repealed the 1936 Commodities Exchange Act.
This in addition the repeal of Glass steagall allowed banks to not only have their own "trading desks", but the CFMA also meant that now the trading of derivatives was not regulated as it had since 36.
We know this kind of nonsense led to Lehman magically disappearing.
The financial disaster was a perfect storm of many dimensions and contributing causes. Low interest rates were seen as a panacea to sluggish economic growth. Blame 1. Greenspan 2. almost all politicians
1998 and 2000 repeals of good 1936 laws: Weill, Rubin, Greenspan, then everyone else with SOME exceptions like Byron Dorgan. He may have some good youtubes warning what might happen in 10 years. Wow, what a crystal ball he had.
The changes made in our laws in 1998 and 2000 allowed the greedy banks to be able to essentially gamble and write shitty mortgages to losers, make them into securities, and send them off.
Not satisfied, they started trading CDS, which should not have been allowed, ever. I was actually surprised that this had been legal.
The stupid idea of mortgages to people who could have never paid was a mistake but not the only root of the disaster.
The idiot house buyer who could not afford it was like the heroin junkie. He is the bottom of the pyramid. The pusher would be banks and the producer of dope would be places like Lehman.
Deregulation per se is not bad, but in the case of 98 and 2000, they really just had legalized gambling by banks to increase their profits, the *consumer* was not helped in any way. They didn't really deregulate banks, they changed what banks business became. This should have never happened.
A bank should be a fucking bank. If their profit is too small for having an all cash business with low overhead, fuck them. Let them try to compete with Apple, Walmart, or Exxon.
Follow
Befriend (13)
787 threads
1,542 comments
clambo says
What about the savings and loan crisis?
What about Long Term Capital Management Bailout?
You can't rewrite history, but you can't forget history either.
Reagan started rolling the ball on deregulation. The whole phrase "Trickle Down Economics" came under Reagan. He slashed taxes for the rich ridiculously. All that trickled down was the greed to become like the wealthy using easy money.
Clinton did some good things to fix it and Bush undid everything again in his first term.
Follow
Befriend (13)
787 threads
1,542 comments
clambo says
hehehehe ROTFL LOL
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/01/playing-free-markets-canard.html
Anyone who has seriously studied applied macroeconomics knows that crony capitalists hate free markets, with all the fairness and transparency that they imply. Competition is a serious drag on enormous profits and introduces significant uncertainty and risk.
As soon as the game is underway, successful capitalists are constantly pushing the envelope of the rules, seeking to establish rents, monopolies, unfair advantages, and debt traps to snare the bulk of the players and stifle the profit-eroding tendency of real competition.
The 'efficient markets' hypothesis and the denigration of regulation serves to despoil markets of their capacity to create wealth and distribute it in a meritorious fashion.
Follow
Befriend (5)
1,070 comments
Santa Cruz, CA
First, someone says Bush caused the recent financial disaster. Then, I prove it's back to 1998 and 2000.
Then, someone says "Reagan-style" deregulation caused by "Republicans" was responsible for everything.
The facts are greedy stupid bankers and greedy maniacs/shitheads like Weill, Rubin, and their ilk sowed the seeds in 1998 for that bubble and it popped like all asset bubbles do.
Deregulation per se is not bad. I have been flying in airplanes since 1972. The experience was previously very expensive (and pleasant). Airlines were deregulated which led to lower airfares. Now flying is like riding greyhound.
De regulation doesn't mean no regulation.
Which direction you drive and the speed on the freeway is regulated. Where you go is not.
Follow
Befriend (13)
787 threads
1,542 comments
clambo says
Without the complicit politicians, the political process cannot be hijacked. Phil Gramm (Republican) is the source of repealing Glass Steagall. Look up his speech, it's ridiculous. A North Dakota Senator named Byron Dorgan (Dem) actually said that we are heading towards a major financial crash way back in 99.
While both parties have done a lot of damage, there are more insane Republicans than Democrats.
Follow
Befriend (12)
140 threads
1,355 comments
Emeryville, CA
Remember too, that Clinton was a DLC Democrat, which meant that he largely abandoned traditional liberal policies, like when he went to bed with Wall Street. His goal was to be a "business-friendly Democrat", which in the grand scheme of things simply means capitulating.
The Right won at that point, financial-ideologically speaking. Glass-Steagall was not repealed by a liberal, but a moderate to conservative guy with a (D)near his name. I'd wager to say that, like NAFTA, a Republican could never have passed it.
We have not had a liberal president since Nixon, to quote Moynihan.
Follow
Befriend (3)
8 threads
335 comments
iwog says
We seem to agree fraud is rare. But you're only looking at lesser sins on one side of the coin.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0924/New-Black-Panther-Party-voter-intimidation-case-Bombshell-for-Obama
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1879667,00.html
http://standwitharizona.com/blog/2011/08/18/obama-amnesty-begins-halts-deportations-for-300000-illegal-aliens-offers-work-permits/
I am a bit conflicted in arguing equivalence on this, because I also think Ohio 2004 was the dirtiest election in the last thirty years --and that was all on the right. But that does not a pattern make.
We do agree that there are substantive differences between the two parties. This just isn't one. They're both happy to use political muscle to secure electoral advantage.
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
Nomograph says
That's what Rush Limbaugh told me, so it's got to be true.