Arizona sheriff says Obama's birth certificate a "forgery"


By nosf41   Follow   Fri, 2 Mar 2012, 2:59am   11,430 views   123 comments
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"...A 6-month-long investigation conducted by my cold case posse has led me to believe there is probably cause to believe that President Barack Obama's long-form birth certificate ... is a computer-generated fraud," Arpaio told a news conference...."

http://news.yahoo.com/arizona-sheriff-says-obamas-birth-certificate-forgery-041146855.html

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  1. thunderlips11


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    44   9:33am Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    The ACLU defends the rights of Christian whacko broodlings to wear Jesus gear at school, or irksome evangelicals wearing their Flayed God symbols at work, and even the rights of Christians to protest the ACLU, all the time. Hell, they even defend the rights of Christians to protest homosexuality.

    http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/

    They just don't let Christian whackos get away with buying and displaying Christmas or Easter crap on the Taxpayer dime. If they want a manger display near a road, they can put it in front of their church and not the town hall.

  2. freak80


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    45   9:44am Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    How did we go from Birther Certificates to Climategate to the ACLU?

  3. thunderlips11


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    46   10:16am Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    wthrfrk80 says

    How did we go from Birther Certificates to Climategate to the ACLU?

    I guess we went from one Boogeyman to another.

  4. freak80


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    47   10:21am Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Maybe the next one will be Black Lesbians from Outer Space?

  5. Bap33


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    48   10:55am Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    wait a second, who pays for the mess created by occupy, or pro-deviant sex marches in SF and Boston and other metros?? Does the ACLU find an issue with tax dollars supporting the actions and events of those groups?

    Does the ACLU attack Santa or Easter Bunny displays on public dime? No. Not one time. Ever.
    To any non-believer the Jesus of Christmas and Easter should be on the same level as Santa and Easter Bunny right? Right. If not, they are not being honest about being an athiest.
    So try another pile of crap explaination for the ACLU taking up the sword for the anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-White, anti-normal sexual deviant left, since this one didn't work.

  6. Dan8267


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    49   12:29pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    wthrfrk80 says

    How did we go from Birther Certificates to Climategate to the ACLU?

    Good question. And Shrek isn't even here.

  7. Dan8267


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    50   12:55pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    The ACLU should be abolished, disbanded, removed from existance, in an effort to stop leftist elitist activist judges and other pukes from abusing justice and attacking America's soul.

    That is the most bat-shit crazy thing I've heard in my life. The ACLU is a non-profit organization dedicated to preserving American rights and freedoms and upholding the Constitution by challenging state practices that infringe upon the rights enumerated in the Constitution. This is a noble goal that all Americans, regardless of their religious preferences, should support. It is only when people put their religious doctrine before the philosophical basis of their country, that an American attacks the ACLU. When it comes to state matters, you should never put your religion before the Constitution.

    Here's just a few highlights of what the ACLU has accomplished. Which of these would you have undone?

    Championing Political Freedom during the Palmer Raids in 1920:
    In its first year, the ACLU championed citizens being targeted for deportation, including politically radical immigrants. We also supported trade unionists’ right to organize, and secured the release of hundreds of activists imprisoned for antiwar activities.

    Defending Science through the Scopes Case in 1925:
    When biology teacher John T. Scopes was charged with violating a Tennessee ban on the teaching of evolution, the ACLU was there and secured celebrated attorney Clarence Darrow for his defense.

    Fighting the Internment of Japanese Americans in 1942:
    The ACLU stood almost alone in denouncing the federal government's internment of more than 110,000 Japanese Americans in concentration camps during WWII.

    Desegregating America's schools through Brown v. Board of Education in 1954:
    The ACLU shared a major victory with the NAACP when the Supreme Court declared that racially segregated schools were in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment.

    Protecting Students' Free Speech in 1969:
    In Tinker v. Des Moines, the ACLU won a major Supreme Court victory on behalf of public school students suspended for wearing black armbands in protest of the Vietnam War, a major First Amendment victory.

    Defending Reproductive Rights from 1973 onward:
    After decades of struggle, the Supreme Court held — in Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton — that the constitutional right to privacy encompasses a woman's right to decide whether to continue a pregnancy. But the battle continues, and the ACLU is still fighting to protect women's right to reproductive choice.

    Taking a Stand for Free Speech in Skokie in 1978:
    The ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a Nazi group that planned to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie — where many Holocaust survivors lived. The notoriety of the case cost the ACLU dearly as members left in droves, but to many, it was our finest hour and has come to represent our unwavering commitment to principle.

    Protecting Internet Free Speech in 1997:
    In ACLU v. Reno, the Supreme Court struck down the 1996 Communications Decency Act, which broadly censored "indecent" speech on the Internet. Since then, Congress has passed numerous laws to criminalize constitutionally protected speech online. Each has been declared unconstitutional after challenges by the ACLU.

    Exposing Torture from 2003 onward:
    After a five-year legal battle, the ACLU obtained critical documents detailing the Bush torture program, including long-secret legal memos justifying waterboarding and other abuses and an Inspector General's report highlighting CIA abuses. The ACLU is leading the demand for full accountability for those who authorized or condoned torture.

    Keeping Religion Out of Science Classrooms in 2005:
    Eighty years after the Scopes Trial, the ACLU challenged a Pennsylvania requirement that high school biology classes teach "intelligent design" alongside evolution. The judge ruled that "intelligent design" is not science and teaching it violated the First Amendment, garnering nationwide attention.

    Protecting the Right to Privacy in 2009:
    In Safford Unified School District v. Redding, the court ruled that school officials violated the constitutional rights of a 13-year-old Arizona girl, when they strip-searched her based on a classmate's uncorroborated accusation.

    Helping LGBT Americans Serve Openly in 2010:
    In a landmark court win, an Air Force major discharged because of her sexual orientation was reinstated, contributing to the eventual repeal of the discriminatory and unconstitutional "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.

    Bap33 says

    Note: THe ACLU is not a Gov agency, but is protected and operates in a buble created by manipulated law and it is 100% anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Conservative, anti-White, anti-normal sexual ...... it MUST be abolished.

    Exactly which of the above accomplishments is anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Conservative (well, if you define conservative the way the Nazi's did…), anti-White, or anti-normal sexual (whatever the fuck that is)?

    Even when I was a Christian, I believed in the separation of church and state as an American. If you honestly believe in the false dichotomy that either America has to be a theocracy or American Christians are being persecuted, then I've got some really bad news for you. In about 50 years, Islam is going to be the majority religion in the United States. When that happens, do you want your grandchild reading verses of the Quran during science or history class? Do you want Islamic murals draping the halls of the public school where your children learn?

    A hard an absolute separation of church and state is the only thing that is going to prevent Christianity from being marginalized and discriminated against in law when the fastest growing religion becomes America's mainstream religion. Think about that.

    Funny how separation of church and state isn't important when it's your religion that's on top, but as soon as someone else's religion is top dog…

    Bap33 says

    Does the ACLU attack Santa or Easter Bunny displays on public dime? No. Not one time. Ever.

    Do people worship Santa or the Easter Bunny? Have people gone to war and murdered in the name of Santa or Easter Bunny? Is the Easter Bunny trying to prevent contraceptives from being covered by health insurance, gays from openly serving in the military, same-sex marriage?

    By the way, you're free to believe that gay people or interracial people can't be married in the eyes of god. But in the eyes of the state, the equal protection clause of the Constitution guarantees interracial couples and gay couples the same rights as the rest of us and for the same damn reason. So as long as there is a married status on an IRS form or a spouse benefactor legal status, then it has to apply to both interracial and intragender couples and for the exact same reason. Gender and race do not affect the right to enter a legal arrangement or the benefits of doing so.

  8. Bap33


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    51   1:44pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    You failed to show why something called a false idol by athiests (Santa Clause) is treated any different than another claimed-to-be-false idol (Jesus). Or, have you accidently proven my first point that liberals are after controlling the choices of others? You see, the value of stopping public supported signs of God by the liberal left, in this example, is based solely upon the FACT that those signs mean something to those who believe. To any true non-believer a cross or a manger at Christmas should mean no more than Santa Clouse ... but, like Dan shows, it does mean more to the liberal left because they see that it means more to Christians. Finally, we see some truth. Ofcourse it does not matter. And my inability to express myself well, or spell well, will result in a diminishing return. But, I know that Dan has the ability to read my chopped up points and see my exact meaning.
    Dan, as you know I lack your abilities, so could you take my point of view, put it in a proper vanaculer that you can better understand, and show it's merit. Please. Thank you.

    You went off on a tangent about deviant sex.

    The taxation and state recognition that you mention requires legal proof. The legal proof of being married is a signed license from the state .... what is the legal proof of being a practicing sodomite that the state should use to create this special protection and treatement? Is the state supposed to just accept someone word without legal proof? Now we are back to the birth cert. See how that went?

  9. TPB


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    52   1:48pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Bap33 says

    The ACLU should be abolished, disbanded, removed from existance, in an effort to stop leftist elitist activist judges and other pukes from abusing justice and attacking America's soul. Note: THe ACLU is not a Gov agency, but is protected and operates in a buble created by manipulated law and it is 100% anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Conservative, anti-White, anti-normal sexual ...... it MUST be abolished.

    where do I sign up?

    Dan8267 says

    That is the most bat-shit crazy thing I've heard in my life. The ACLU is a non-profit organization dedicated to preserving American rights and freedoms and upholding the Constitution by challenging state practices that infringe upon the rights enumerated in the Constitution.

    Yeah because a Christmas tree at the City Hall is just a blatant infringement on the people's constitutional rights.

    If there was no ACLU there would still be Blacks and Latinos in the work place. It's just they would have been hired for their abilities and not based on their color. And we just might still be the country that has the best made products in the world. The Customer would still be right, because the work place would be full of competence(white, back, yellow or otherwise) to make the wrong right.

  10. bdrasin


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    53   1:52pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    wthrfrk80 says

    Maybe the next one will be Black Lesbians from Outer Space?

    Now that might get me to tune in

  11. bob2356


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    54   2:57pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    I like your quote from Twain ... now, re-read each of my posts and show me the part where I said the ACLU was a Gov Agency. Dipshit.

    Write more clearly and people would understand what you mean. You said a power broker arm of the government then 5 words later you said abolish the epa and aclu. Any literate person would read it the way I read it. Dipshit.

  12. Dan8267


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    55   4:06pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    TPB says

    Yeah because a Christmas tree at the City Hall is just a blatant infringement on the people's constitutional rights.

    It is if I can't put up an alter to Satan or Aphrodite at City Hall, too. My tax dollars and my public property, which includes City Hall, should not be used to endorse any religion. If there had been a sign erected on City Hall promoting atheism, you can bet your ass that the Christians would be up in arms. Hell, they're up in arms when a billboard promotes agnosticism.

    TPB says

    If there was no ACLU there would still be Blacks and Latinos in the work place. It's just they would have been hired for their abilities and not based on their color.

    I also think that Affirmative Action is discrimination and Unconstitutional. However, one or two disagreements hardly constitutes banning the ACLU. Their track record is better than any other organization and that includes both major parties. We should ban Democrats and Republicans before banning the ACLU.

    TPB says

    And we just might still be the country that has the best made products in the world.

    Neither the ACLU nor Affirmative Action has anything to do with America's decline as a manufacturing base or economic power. America's decline is due entirely to globalization and capitalism.

    The problem with capitalism is that rewards one and only one thing: bargaining power. And it sets up a positive feedback loop so that a slight advantage in initial bargaining power can cause one party to gain an insurmountable advantage in setting up contracts including employee-wage contracts.

    This results in a few individuals, who produce nothing since they don't have to, having enough bargaining power to dictate terms of production on the rest of society. The terms these people always go for is not to maximize productivity, but rather to maximize the percentage of productivity that they siphon from the producers.

    This happens by the few individuals with control over distribution (content owners, land owner, and other rent seekers) demanding that the workforce be ran as closely to slavery as possible.

    Obviously, the first choice of any good capitalist is outright slavery, provided there are protections that he and his family won't be subjected to slavery. This can be done via land ownership status, citizenship status (are you an Athenian?), race, or class. However, societies eventually banned slavery.

    The second choice is to use child labor. Children have much less bargaining power than adults, especially since they can't vote. Unfortunately for the poor job creator, this was banned too.

    The third choice is to use illegal immigrants and foreign labor, once again, because these parties cannot bargain.

    You see the pattern? Don't blame the ACLU for this problem. Anyone who tells you they are to blame is simply trying to distract you from the real culprits: the Mitt Romneys of the world.

  13. Dan8267


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    56   4:28pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    You failed to show why something called a false idol by athiests (Santa Clause) is treated any different than another claimed-to-be-false idol (Jesus).

    Um, yeah I did. Santa Clause isn't a religious figure. Jesus is. However, I see no reason why a commercial invention like Santa Clause should be on display at City Hall either. Furthermore, Santa Clause is accepted as fiction. Jesus isn't.

    Would you be OK with city hall displaying the following symbol, and only it?

    Bap33 says

    To any true non-believer a cross or a manger at Christmas should mean no more than Santa Clouse ... but, like Dan shows, it does mean more to the liberal left because they see that it means more to Christians.

    Wrong, wrong, wrong. I have no problem whatsoever at religious symbols being displayed in churches and on people's homes. I suspect you have no problem with a sign like this being displayed in a mall:

    But would you want that sign in your church?

    When I see government facilities being used to promote any religion, especially the dominate one (no matter what religion is dominate), I see government using its power to establish a religion. And that is what I object to.

    And you would be objecting to it too if the government was promoting any non-Jesus based religion like Islam or Hinduism.

    It's not a difficult point to comprehend. Think carefully about it. If you understand American history and principles, something should click and you should go "ah, of course".

    Bap33 says

    it does mean more to the liberal left because they see that it means more to Christians.

    Wrong, wrong, wrong again. The American political "right" does not have any monopoly on religion or Christianity. I hate to break it to you, but the most devout Christians are on the left. I measure devotion not in terms of how often you say Jesus but in terms of how much of your own personal wealth and self-interest you are willing to give up for the poor. Left beats right on this Christian devotion scale by a factor of 10.

    Don't forget, I was raised Catholic and I've seen real Christian sacrifice. It doesn't come from fundamentalists. You don't see born-agains working in the soup kitchens and homeless shelters. The blue states follow the whole "that which you do to the least of my people you do unto me" way more than the red states.

    And the saying goes: actions speak louder than words. And by that term, the people you call "liberals" are more Christian than conservatives.

    Bap33 says

    You went off on a tangent about deviant sex.

    It's Friday already? Yay!

    Bap33 says

    The legal proof of being married is a signed license from the state .... what is the legal proof of being a practicing sodomite that the state should use to create this special protection and treatement? Is the state supposed to just accept someone word without legal proof?

    WTF are you talking about here?

    A state marriage is a legal arrangement that is created when two people obtain a marriage license. That's it. Regardless of your religion, that's all marriage is to the state.

    Whether or not a couple has butt sex, which by the way heterosexual couples can do too, has nothing to do with whether or not they should be married. And all the lesbians that got married when it became legal in California, they were in their sixties and not particularly interested in butt sex.

    I hate to break this to you, Bap, but men can have all the butt sex they want without getting married. Gay men and women don't get married to have butt sex. They get married to have the same legal rights as heterosexual married couples. Rights like access to a shared health insurance plan, life insurance benefits, veteran spouse benefits, joint tax filing, etc.

    Why do you think that everything about gay people revolves around butt sex? Have you ever met a gay person? They are just like you and me. They think about sports, politics, what's on How I Met Your Mother, where's a good place for lunch, and all the mundane things that make up living. You seem to think that a gay person's life revolves entirely around 24/7 ass fucking. It doesn't. Not that there would be anything wrong with that.

  14. elliemae


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    Bap33 says

    wait a second, who pays for the mess created by occupy, or pro-deviant sex marches in SF and Boston and other metros??

    Your taxes help pay for the clean up after public events, and I'm sure the "deviants" are thrilled that you're contributing.

    What's a sex march? And where do I sign up?

  15. Bap33


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    58   8:10pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    Dan8267 says

    Um, yeah I did. Santa Clause isn't a religious figure. Jesus is.

    religous only matters to those who believe in it. Or, atheism is just full of crap. You can't have it both ways.

  16. Bap33


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    59   8:12pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    bob2356 says

    Bap33 says



    I like your quote from Twain ... now, re-read each of my posts and show me the part where I said the ACLU was a Gov Agency. Dipshit.


    Write more clearly and people would understand what you mean. You said a power broker arm of the government then 5 words later you said abolish the epa and aclu. Any literate person would read it the way I read it. Dipshit.

    no, you read what is wrote and not what the voices in your head say the writer was trying to write ... Dippershit.

  17. Bap33


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    60   8:16pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    Dan8267 says

    Wrong, wrong, wrong again. The American political "right" does not have any monopoly on religion or Christianity. I hate to break it to you, but the most devout Christians are on the left. I measure devotion not in terms of how often you say Jesus but in terms of how much of your own personal wealth and self-interest you are willing to give up for the poor. Left beats right on this Christian devotion scale by a factor of 10.

    Nope. Conservative Christian Americans out give anyone on the American left by a mile. You know this. Why the word play? You have made it a habit to not fib, so I figure there is some type of game in play here, especially since a simple google search proves my point in spades.

  18. Bap33


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    61   8:19pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    elliemae says

    Bap33 says



    wait a second, who pays for the mess created by occupy, or pro-deviant sex marches in SF and Boston and other metros??


    Your taxes help pay for the clean up after public events, and I'm sure the "deviants" are thrilled that you're contributing.


    What's a sex march? And where do I sign up?


    Eschew Obfuscation

    lol .. yes, tax payers are forced to support these actions, just as they are forced to light a Christmas tree in the town square and keep a cross on the hill lit up and maybe, just maybe, keep a Ten Commandments statue near the Judges Palace. Kinda was my point, in reaction to the post that decryed the use of tax dollars for anything Christian related ... but, they have remained silent since my point was made.

  19. Bap33


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    62   8:33pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    Dan8267 says

    Bap33 says

    The legal proof of being married is a signed license from the state .... what is the legal proof of being a practicing sodomite that the state should use to create this special protection and treatement? Is the state supposed to just accept someone word without legal proof?

    DAN says: WTF are you talking about here?
    A state marriage is a legal arrangement that is created when two people obtain a marriage license. That's it. Regardless of your religion, that's all marriage is to the state.

    I didn't mention religion with marriage.
    Getting a marrige license required proof from me and my wife.
    Since we lived together already, a blood test was waved.
    They took copies of our birth certificates and SSI cards. The birth records indicate male and female. We look male and female. We had to prove who we were, and what we were, with absolute evidence. But, how, where, when, we had sex was not asked. Or if.
    Anyone can claim to be a victim to the ACLU as an abused sodomite and sue for millions. It's stupid. My question remains, what is the legal way these deviants are able to prove who and what they are, so as to be given these special protections and favors from Gov.?

  20. Bap33


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    63   8:34pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    Dan8267 says

    Rights like access to a shared health insurance plan, life insurance benefits, veteran spouse benefits, joint tax filing, etc.

    They have full access to each of these if they marry correctly. It's their choice. Are you not pro-choice?

  21. Dan8267


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    64   9:58pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    Dan8267 says

    Um, yeah I did. Santa Clause isn't a religious figure. Jesus is.

    religous only matters to those who believe in it. Or, atheism is just full of crap. You can't have it both ways.

    I don't follow what you are saying.

  22. elliemae


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    Bap33 says

    hey have full access to each of these if they marry correctly. It's their choice. Are you not pro-choice?

    Exactly how does one marry "correctly?" I hope it's without those pesky Chris Brown dances down the aisle.

    Gay marriage doesn't hurt anyone, it merely allows people who love one another to be recognized as a legit couple in the eyes of the law. Larry Craig is married, but sucks men's dicks in bathroom stalls. I guess that's okay, 'cause he married "correctly?"

    Asinine conversation - if you aren't gay, don't have sex with someone who is your same gender. But don't for a moment believe that your opinion is anything more than a bigoted response based in fear over someone who is different than you.

    Everyone is different.

    By the way, living with your spouse before marriage is considered to be as sinful as homosexuality in some religions. You still did it - it was okay with you and you weren't hurting anyone. Yet you were still a deviant from the norm. If you're not having sex purely for procreational purposes, you're a deviant.

    And yet, somehow, you still walk among us and judge other people as though you're not going to hell someday. Go figure.

    I'm done with this convo, don't bother to spew out an answer.

  23. Dan8267


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    66   10:20pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    Nope. Conservative Christian Americans out give anyone on the American left by a mile. You know this. Why the word play? You have made it a habit to not fib, so I figure there is some type of game in play here, especially since a simple google search proves my point in spades.

    True, I was wrong on this point. Conservatives are always calling for the poor to be left to die rather than be "given a handout", so it's not surprising that conservatives have a very bad reputation for generosity, especially the Wall Street Conservatives Gordon Gecko types.

    However, much to my shock, when I did some research on this, it does appear that conservatives do donate more to charity. I checked non-conservative sites just to make sure this wasn't a conservative talking point misinformation. However, even the New York Times has confirmed this.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html

    This does bring up a good question. If conservatives give more to charity than liberals, then why are conservatives against structural safety nets and liberals are for them?

    Structural safety nets allow for economies of scale and wider distribution of resources, and so would be more effective than smaller scale charities.

  24. Dan8267


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    67   10:29pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    es, tax payers are forced to support these actions, just as they are forced to light a Christmas tree in the town square and keep a cross on the hill lit up and maybe, just maybe, keep a Ten Commandments statue near the Judges Palace.

    Tax money should not be used for:

    1. Parades
    2. Santas
    3. Easter Bunnies
    4. Sports Stadiums
    5. Christmas Trees

    Tax money should be used for: sanitation, regardless of what political group OWS or Tea Party or any other group that stages a protest. Protesting is a right. Sanitation is a public need, but the right to protest should not be infringed upon because there will be sanitation costs later.

    And as for the Ten Commandments in a state court, how about some Sharia Law tablets in those courts? Still non-offensive? How about copies of the Egyptian scrolls showing that all those Jesus myths from walking on water to having 12 apostles to raising Lazarus from the dead were ripped off from older Egyptian myths? Would such scrolls and hieroglyphs belong in a court?

  25. Dan8267


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    68   10:31pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    in reaction to the post that decryed the use of tax dollars for anything Christian related

    The ACLU's position is that tax dollars should not be used for any religion. The ACLU does not single out Christianity. It's that Christianity is currently the majority religion, and so it's followers are breaking all the laws. In 50 years, we'll be having this same discussion about Islam.

    Small, fringe religions tend not to get the ability to influence city hall.

  26. Dan8267


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    69   10:37pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    Dan8267 says

    Rights like access to a shared health insurance plan, life insurance benefits, veteran spouse benefits, joint tax filing, etc.

    They have full access to each of these if they marry correctly. It's their choice. Are you not pro-choice?

    Again I don't follow.

    First, gay marriage must be legal and recognized at the Federal level in order for a gay man to get veteran spouse benefits from his active duty husband.

    Second, under Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the gay couple could not have the marriage benefit because it would be "telling" the soldier's sexual orientation. This was one of the biggest problems with Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

    As for the process of "marrying correctly", it should be the same for intrasexual couples as intersexual couples.

  27. Dan8267


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    70   10:38pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    elliemae says

    Exactly how does one marry "correctly?"

    Yeah, I was wondering what he meant by that, too.

  28. Dan8267


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    71   10:45pm Tue 6 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html

    This does bring up a good question. If conservatives give more to charity than liberals, then why are conservatives against structural safety nets and liberals are for them?

    This is still bugging me because it doesn't add up. After thinking about it a bit more, I'm incline to believe that liberals expect their "money for the poor" to be handled by the state via taxation and state spending. Conservatives expect their "money for the poor" to be handled by the church. If you add up what liberals are willing to pay in taxes for social services to the poor, I suspect it matches what conservatives are willing to give to their church-ran charities.

    I.e., the real difference is due to liberals wanting charity to be a state function and conservatives wanting it to be a church function.

    Of course we could get into an argument about which entity would be better at running a charity, but that's another issue.

  29. Kevin


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    72   1:01am Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    Dan8267 says

    Um, yeah I did. Santa Clause isn't a religious figure. Jesus is.

    religous only matters to those who believe in it. Or, atheism is just full of crap. You can't have it both ways.

    WTF quote of the day.

    No, religion clearly has no effect on us atheists. No wars have ever been fought over it, no government policy has harmed any group because of it, and nobody has ever been ostracized from their community for not belonging to a particular one.

  30. elliemae


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    73   7:50am Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Dan8267 says

    Second, under Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the gay couple could not have the marriage benefit because it would be "telling" the soldier's sexual orientation. This was one of the biggest problems with Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

    Under DADT, gay people were allowed to be gay (ugh!) as long as they didn't tell anyone, have a relationship or even acknowledge they were gay. It was "keep it to yourself," which is complete bullshit. The military code is to tell the truth, yet the policy showed that we couldn't handle the truth.

    Wikipedia says

    "Don't ask, don't tell" (DADT) was the official United States policy on homosexuals serving in the military from December 21, 1993 to September 20, 2011. The policy prohibited military personnel from discriminating against or harassing closeted homosexual or bisexual service members or applicants, while barring openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual persons from military service. The restrictions were mandated by United States federal law Pub.L. 103-160 (10 U.S.C. § 654). The policy prohibited people who "demonstrate a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts" from serving in the armed forces of the United States, because their presence "would create an unacceptable risk to the high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability."[1] The act prohibited any homosexual or bisexual person from disclosing his or her sexual orientation or from speaking about any homosexual relationships, including marriages or other familial attributes, while serving in the United States armed forces. The act specified that service members who disclose that they are homosexual or engage in homosexual conduct should be separated (discharged) except when a service member's conduct was "for the purpose of avoiding or terminating military service" or when it "would not be in the best interest of the armed forces".

    Yea, that sounds fair. Kevin says

    No, religion clearly has no effect on us atheists.

    :) WTF indeed.

  31. freak80


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    74   8:09am Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    elliemae says

    It was "keep it to yourself," which is complete bullshit.

    I don't see what's wrong with people keeping their private lives to themselves. It's nobody else's business what people do in private.

  32. elliemae


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    wthrfrk80 says

    I don't see what's wrong with people keeping their private lives to themselves. It's nobody else's business what people do in private.

    It took it about a million steps further. Being gay isn't about sex - if it were, then it could be hidden if the people involved were so inclined. If a person lived with another of the same sex, they were asked if they were gay. They weren't allowed to have dates because that would "out" them. It wasn't about personal lives, it was about tortuously hiding identity.

    Imagine if you're at work and everyone is talking about what they did over the weekend. If you went shopping at walmart for house stuff, you'd have to be careful about what you said - lest it be construed as you being gay.

    If you went to a party, you couldn't sit with your partner. If you got a library card, you couldn't get it with your partner. You couldn't do or say anything that might make you appear gay. All the things that heterosexuals do everyday, from paying bills (joint accounts) to shopping to doing yard work... if you have a partner you involve them in intimate and not-so-intimate ways.

    Don't ask, Don't tell required that you buried all signs of your relationships and friendships. Even if you were hetero, if you had an openly gay friend it could lead to prison. seriously.

    I once had a patient whose partner was in a very prominent position in the community. The patient died and his partner wasn't able to arrange a funeral or even publicly acknowledge the death. He had someone call me to make sure I wouldn't "out" him - he would have lost his job and standing in the community. What a horrible thing to have to go through.

  33. freak80


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    76   10:51am Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    elliemae says

    Don't ask, Don't tell required that you buried all signs of your relationships and friendships.

    So what? Let "gayness" be a private thing. It's none of the public's business. If the public suspects two people are gay just because they happen to live, garden, and shop together, that seems kind of silly to me. Hence the "don't ask" part of the equation.

  34. Dan8267


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    77   11:13am Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    wthrfrk80 says

    I don't see what's wrong with people keeping their private lives to themselves. It's nobody else's business what people do in private.

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    78   12:19pm Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Dan8267 says

    Protesting is a right. Sanitation is a public need, but the right to protest should not be infringed upon because there will be sanitation costs later

    and this is the difference between left and right. Personal accountability. Simple building blocks of society, like standing in line, waiting your turn, picking up your trash, being polite, not cursing in public, these things are not displayed by the liberal left progressive.
    Selfish, disruptive, unproductive, and blaming every bad choice they make on someone else.
    If they are hooked on illegal drugs it is not their fault.
    It they catch AIDS having unprotected sodomite activity it is not their fault.
    If they fail to learn in school it is not their fault.
    If they get prego as a teen it is not their fault.
    If they have multiple kids out of wedlock from multiple men it is not their fault.
    If they get shot by the police while robbing a 7-11 it is not their fault.
    If they get stopped for speeding and are found to have drugs and weapons it is not their fault.
    If they choose lie instead of truth it is not their fault.
    If they can't speak the language of the country they invade it is not their fault.
    If they can't follow a conversation well enough to see the obvious lies of the mass media it is not their fault.
    If they buy an over-priced stucco-wrapped POS house with an illegal loan built on lies and greed - for a price they could never payback it is not their fault.
    Anyone willing to kneel at the alter of the ProgressiveLeftLiberal Monster will not be held accountable. So be it.

  36. Bap33


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    79   12:27pm Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    elliemae says



    Exactly how does one marry "correctly?"


    Yeah, I was wondering what he meant by that, too.

    if you do not know what a correct, normal, accepted, useful, healthy, non-disruptive way to marry is, then I can't really help. If the issue at hand is access to benifits, then a person should do what they need to do to acess those benifits. That now will show that the issue is not access, it is a desire to have the avenue of access paved espicially for a self-proclaimed group .. and that is BS ... and in my post above you will note that I tied this issue to the horrible un-American actions of the ACLU, and how they will take up a cause for a self-proclaimed group that has no legal way to show the basis for their claim. Same as atheism. Nobody can prove they are atheist, but they DEMAND cash and the ability to dictate public activity in America thru the ACLU sue machine.

  37. bob2356


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    80   1:02pm Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bap33 says

    If they are hooked on illegal drugs it is not their fault.
    It they catch AIDS having unprotected sodomite activity it is not their fault.
    If they fail to learn in school it is not their fault.
    If they get prego as a teen it is not their fault.
    If they have multiple kids out of wedlock from multiple men it is not their fault.
    If they get shot by the police while robbing a 7-11 it is not their fault.
    If they get stopped for speeding and are found to have drugs and weapons it is not their fault.
    If they choose lie instead of truth it is not their fault.
    If they can't speak the language of the country they invade it is not their fault.
    If they can't follow a conversation well enough to see the obvious lies of the mass media it is not their fault.
    If they buy an over-priced stucco-wrapped POS house with an illegal loan built on lies and greed - for a price they could never payback it is not their fault.

    Pretty amazing.
    Conservatives have never been hooked on drugs (Rush Limbaugh, it's not my fault).
    No conservatives have Aids (bloom, breindal, etc,etct. not my fault I didn't really have aids).
    Didn't learn at school, got shot, so forth (to many to count).
    All conservatives are multilingual (Really???)
    Conservatives have never lied (Really???)
    No conservative at all bought an overprices POS house in Nevada with a liar loan then tried to weasel out. I find that pretty hard to believe.

    Do you ever touch base with reality?

  38. freak80


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    81   1:20pm Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Wasn't this thread originally about the Birthers?

  39. Bap33


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    82   1:24pm Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Dan8267 says

    Tax money should not be used for:
    1. Parades
    2. Santas
    3. Easter Bunnies
    4. Sports Stadiums
    5. Christmas Trees

    welfare to invaders
    welfare for drug addicts
    welfare for teen moms
    Section 8 housing used in non-public housing
    EBT cash-in-hand cards
    Public K-12 Education without access to private school vouchers for those willing to follow the rules found in private schools.
    High Speed Rail
    Any higher education at all
    National Endowment for the Arts
    PBS
    Planned Parenthood
    All political campaigns
    All forein aide
    General Motors
    You name a few more.
    I agree with you. That is not what taxes are for. Taxes are only for secure border defense, public safety and facilities, and protection of AMerican Allies, and safe roads and bridges.

    by the way, public sanatation is a fee-for-service part of a city's enterprize fund and those who impact the system are to pay for their impact directly. So, the gay parades and occupy scum should be made to pay for their impact.

  40. Bap33


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    83   1:26pm Wed 7 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    @bob, you're not reading the words I wrote. Please give it another shot, Tiger!

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