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A Picture is Worth 1,000 words...

By marquismark   Follow   Wed, 21 Mar 2012, 4:42pm   14,309 views   172 comments
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1. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,235 threads 6,172 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

   1   10:57pm Wed 21 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (6)   Dislike   Protected   thomas.wong1986 says No one here is a billionair but anyone of us, including you Patrick pay only 15% in capital gains. C'mon, don't play stupid. Almost none of my income is capital gains. Almost all the income of billionaires is capital gains. If I work hard and actually produce something valuable and create a lot of income, my tax rate goes up to 35%. If a billionaire does absolutely nothing useful and gets another billion in unearned income taken from the work of other people, he still pays only 15%. You're telling me that's fair, and helps balance the budget?

2. Just Me Follow Befriend 1 comments

   2   11:15pm Thu 22 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (6)   Dislike   Yes, Your right. 50% of the poor do not pay any direct income tax. But the poor pay a lot of indirect taxes. Many of the poor have cell phones, And line phones. A lot of taxes are paid there. Many of the poor have cable TV, And Dish TV. A lot of taxes are paid there. A lot of poor people drink and smoke, A lot of taxes are paid. A lot of poor people own cars. The poor people pay for car insurance tires gas and traffic tickets,A Lot of taxes are paid there. One of the reasons why people are Poor, Is that they spend All their money every month. The Poor people in this country help to support the Govt. And the Rich....

3. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,235 threads 6,172 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

   3   7:46pm Wed 21 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike   Protected   Obama's definitely taking big bux from Goldman, Chase, etc. And it looks like he sold out the public by killing the public option. But in general, Republicans are far more aggressive about demanding ever more ridiculously unfair wealth redistribution -- upward! Will any Republican ever question why it is that billionaires pay only 15% on unearned income (capital gains, dividends) while really productive people who actually earn their income pay 35%? None. Never. If any Republican dares to mention the ridiculous screwing of the public via ultra-low taxes on the ultra-rich, Grover Norquist will tie him to a stake and set the fire himself. At least Democrats openly admit that the middle class is getting raped daily by the upper class.

4. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,646 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   4   2:14pm Thu 22 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike   Protected   PockyClipsNow says 'middle class' is democrat code word for 'governement and union employees'. eff them. 'Government and union employees' is Republican code for the remaining Americans who aren't either flipping burgers or members of the aristocracy and still manage to maintain a reasonable standard of living. These people used to be called simply "workers", however Pocky's party has done everything they can to send those jobs overseas. You can't send government jobs overseas, so it's important to pay them as much as a WalMart greeter. Why? CEO's are getting screwed and need lower taxes. (15% isn't low enough so now we've got the Ryan abomination)

5. omgbacon Follow Befriend 82 comments

   5   5:09pm Thu 22 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike   sheltielover1 says NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG! I don't understand where all this hatred of California comes from. California is hardly the crazy liberal utopia people think it is. It voted for a Republican president from 1968 to 1992. Since 1975 CA has had two Democratic Governors, (Jerry Brown from 75 to 83, Davis from 99 to 03, and Brown from 11 to present). People claim that Schwatzenegger won because he's so recognizable, but it also helped that he was just a Republican (and pro-choice), not a batshit insane Republican. Gay marriage was legalized through lawsuit, not vote, after it was outlawed by way of prop 8. Medical marijuana was legalized but statewide decriminalization failed. We have prop 13. We passed 3 strikes. We passed prop 187, which was later ruled unconstitutional, but that doesn't change the fact that it passed in the first place. Fact of the matter is that CA is not liberal crunchy granola utopia. It's got some pockets of that, but it's also got some strong conservative strongholds. The major difference is that a lot of the conservatives in the state aren't the extreme rightwing nutjobs that characterize the current Republican party. Overall, CA is pretty moderate.

6. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 209 threads 4,507 comments Davis, CA

   6   6:09pm Thu 22 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike   I want MORE AND MORE of the GOP race. I want every channel dedicated to this internecine civil war 24x7. I want blood and gore on the floor. I want billionaires spending their entire fortune to inflate Super PACs to obscene levels. Frankly right now they aren't spending nearly enough, maximize the Citizens United effect and just make it official that Richie Rich decides who sits in the White House, and it's best if it's one of their own. Set that money free into the economy instead of cluttering up your swimming pool. Put people to work selling the GOP as the One True Path to America Ascendant. Yeah that would be great stimulus. Just create an entire class whose job is year-round election worker.

7. tts Follow Befriend 2 threads 470 comments

   7   10:54pm Thu 22 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike   sack says But the dividends have already been taxed once as corporate tax, taxing it again is probably netting the government more than your 35% (which I doubt many of us are paying). This is pure pro-rich meme horseshit. The non rich wage earners get their income quadruple mega taxed by this logic. After all they pay a sales tax, gas tax, state tax, property tax, federal income tax, etc. all on the same salary.

8. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   8   11:35am Fri 23 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike   Protected   Patrick says So in a sense, people on welfare are already working -- in child care for their own children. Parenting is definitely a full-time job. That's why I have no problem paying higher taxes than people with children.

9. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 171 threads 5,202 comments

   9   9:24pm Wed 21 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Honest Abe says: "In other words, I'm a troll."

10. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,235 threads 6,172 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    10   11:07pm Wed 21 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected   Honest Abe says marquis - no substance to your post I disagree. I think it's American politics in a nutshell.

11. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 770 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

    11   1:20pm Thu 22 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike (1)   wthrfrk80 says But here's the problem: people aren't going to vote for a political movement that calls them stupid. Even if it's (possibly) true. That's "the matter with Kansas." I'm not running for office and I know this. You see the problem as Democrats alienating the white working class. I see that as untrue...the democrats are the only party fighting for the working class...propogandists have convinced the dipshit white working class in middle america to fear brown people: "They are the terrorists," "They are taking your jobs, we have to protect the borders," "Affirmative Action is keeping you from working," "Forcing banks to lower lending standards and giving loans to brown people is what caused the housing crash," etc. The fact that Democrats aren't lying to white middle america is not the problem... That the white working class in places like Ohio, Kentucky, South Carolina, and Georgia among other places are not smart enough to fact find for themselves is the problem. Guys like Sean Hannitty and Limbaugh use this stupidity... I am a former Republican who grew up and went to college in Ohio so I know exactly the type of person being manipulated. I have arguments with family and friends in Ohio everytime I go home about how their taxes have gone up under Obama. Now anyone who works with the tax code will tell you this is impossible since taxes have not increased anywhere under Obama and given the payroll tax reduction they have actually decreased. That's not important to them. They heard on Limbaugh 'bout these libruhls raising their taxes so that is what they believe. Meanwhile they believe God will deliver Rick Santorum riding in on his dinosaur to save them from the terrorists. Maybe a bit of an exaggeration but not much... All you need to know about these people is they elect politicians who do not believe in evolution yet do believe that Obama was not born in the US or is a Muslim. There are many more white working class people on the coasts in so-called blue states and a much smaller percentage of them are swayed by the propaganda. But I digress...what I am saying is not that Democrats call them stupid, it is that Republican propoganda tells them at every chance that the libruhls think they are stupid. And they believe it. Fact is, they are stupid and Republicans think it too.

12. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 106 threads 3,863 comments

    12   1:58pm Thu 22 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   I don't like the fact that government makes income taxes at 35%, but capital gains only at 15%. Seems like a one way street.

13. tts Follow Befriend 2 threads 470 comments

    13   11:19pm Thu 22 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   rootvg says There's something else going on here that no one's talking about, which is the level of change technology has forced on workplaces and the incredible level of technological illiteracy that's out there especially among the younger Baby Boom set and then in less well off, less well educated parts of the country. I don't know what you do about that. Maybe you can't do anything. If you accept that technology will keep improving and doing more and more work with less and less people then you have to accept and plan for a future where there are few if any low/no skill jobs and even the middle skill level jobs have been greatly diminished. Ideally this could be done through social welfare programs that would guarantee a certain minimum standard of living + shortening the work day and work week so that more people would be able to get work at all to get "nice things". Their free time could be spent with their families, hobbies, or leisure activities. If this sounds crazy, remember this: early last century the 60 hour work week was the norm and wages were far lower. Today the work week is 40 hours AND the wages are higher. The 40 hour work week has held steady for going on 100 years yet productivity has increased greatly since then, particularly around the 1970's. That is one of the reasons why may have seen me harping on wealth disparity and wages from time to time. The productivity gains that should have been more fairly distributed amongst the general population have instead been going to the rich. Many people have incredible ideological bias against this sort of thing to put it mildly, and arguments in a public setting are usually framed in the manner of "I AINT' SUPPORTIN' NO WELFARE QUEENS!!!" or even "DUDE JETSONS WAS A CARTOON AND THIS IS REALITY STFU!!!". On top of this the rich have turned themselves into a rentier class so that they may get bigger and bigger pieces of the wealth over time. So right now its looking like we won't see any of that happen in our lifetimes. That may change but I doubt it. If anything I'd say that we're headed towards a full blown 3rd world fascist state if the political and the economic trends of the last few decades are anything to go by.

14. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,718 comments

    14   4:24am Fri 23 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   clambo says So Patrick says I am the guy on the left. If you know a person on Sec. 8, food stamps, SSI, who is NOT a Democrat, give me his email and I will paypal him a few dollars as a reward. Go to any rural town in Middle America and say hi to the first person you meet. Odds are you'll owe him a few dollars.

15. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    15   7:16am Fri 23 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   clambo says If you know a person on Sec. 8, food stamps, SSI, who is NOT a Democrat, give me his email and I will paypal him a few dollars as a reward. NEWSFLASH: Welfare recipients generally don't vote, aren't even registered to vote, don't know who the candidates are, and don't even know when or where elections are held. Obsessing over welfare recipients is a waste of time. You should be more concerned with successful people and spend your time learning from them.

16. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,235 threads 6,172 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    16   12:37pm Sat 24 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected   rootvg says No one's killing his dream or yours other than the guy in the White House and possibly the people running the EPA. At least you agree that the 1% is using EPA regulations to prevent competition from Honest Abe, you, and me. Corruption of government by corporate interest is the one and only problem. Nothing else is significant. Obama's just a Republican in Democratic clothing. He voted for the bailouts (but so did McCain), he kept the unfairly low capital gains and dividend rates without objection, he sold out health care reform to the insurers by ditching the public option, and worst of all, he signed the NDAA, which is the Republican wet dream of imprisoning anyone, any time, for no reason at all, forever. We don't really have any choice in elections, since both parties are funded by the same 1%. Did you see Bulworth?

17. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,235 threads 6,172 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    17   12:43pm Sat 24 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected   The whole left-right thing is a deliberately cultivated distraction from the main issue, which Teddy Roosevelt put perfectly: "To destroy this invisible Government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."

18. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,235 threads 6,172 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    18   4:52pm Sun 25 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected   Honest Abe says One potential solution? Power to the people, not the government I do agree with you that it would help if the people had more direct power, so that the corporate 1% could not simply write our laws in their favor. What's the best way to do that? Petitions probably won't work well, because it costs a lot of money to gather signatures, and the 1% are the only people with the budget. Maybe online signatures somehow?

19. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,235 threads 6,172 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    19   5:41pm Wed 21 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike (2)   Protected   I think that picture is pretty much correct.

20. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 171 threads 5,202 comments

    20   8:40pm Wed 21 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Patrick says At least Democrats openly admit that the middle class is getting raped daily by the upper class. Well said. Why is it so hard for the non-rich right wingers to comprehend that if the rich pay much more progressive rates, then the deficit gets under control and the government corruption is more limited. Why ? Because in that case the ones who influence laws and government spending (these people are all relatively high income) actually have to pay higher taxes for that. They would watch each other. It would be: hey, if I don't get money for my friends, then you don't get yours. And they all would be in that mode because the impact on their own personal finances. As it is, we have borrow and spend (not tax and spend). So the environment is: you get yours as long as I get mine too. Here's the rub. If we pay our bills, through higher taxes on the rich, and with fiscally sound policies, this means we have to make the tough decisions. And how can the republicans win elections then ? SO let me do the Math here. IF we do things right, the rich pay higher taxes, and the republicans can't win elections. Let's face it, we have a fucked up system.