what are you paying for physical gold and silver these days? I read someone here on Patrick said that they had trouble getting good money when they went to sell some gold, but my personal observations are the opposite. I have trouble stomaching the premium attached to physical at the local coin shops. Hell, last time in, they said they didn't have ANY 1 0z Au coins, and their mark up on silver eagles was so high, that i just bought some 10 oz silver bars. Of course, once i pulled the cash out, then they remembered they had 1 gold maple, but still wanted 70$ over spot.
physical metals
By errc Follow Thu, 5 Apr 2012, 1:11pm 3,148 views 15 comments
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Monterey, CA
You'll generally pay $40-70 over spot for 1oz gold eagles.
For 1oz SAE's, generally $2-3 over spot.
As for cashing your metals out - prepared to get spot if you go to a dealer, or more if you risk ebay.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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Stick with
http://www.apmex.com/
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Apmex or Kitco are the way to go. Apmex in particular if you're not buying 10's of thousands worth of physical metals. Most anyone else will screw you over. Particularly local gold sellers/buyers.
You can buy or sell back to Apmex very easily. USPS is the best way to do it via registered/insured mail.
For people with lots of money who want to buy lots of precious metals, 10's-100's thousands of dollars, bullionvault.com is the way to go.
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Las Vegas, NV
Hey, has anyone tried to sell back to Amex? Is that a hassle? Is Apmex required to send any info to the IRS?
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Never dealt with Amex so I couldn't say. I don't think Apmex or Kitco sends any info. directly to the IRS or government, I was never hassled by them at all when I finally sold my PM's a ways back and it was a fair amount of money. AFAIK though the credit card companies are required to report if you buy PM's, some law was passed a ways back on that, or at least I could swear one was I can't find anything on it now.
If you use money orders its a little cheaper anyways. Bank wire transfers are usually for big ($5k+) orders.
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Don't look at it as amount over but on a percentage basis. I know a place with gold that is around 3% above spot. Silver is always going to be higher (maybe 10%) because it has less of a value. Then again I haven't seen any platinum dealers.
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Metals transactions of 10k+ require the coin shop to report for tax purposes
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Monkeyswing says
Almost all gold and silver dealers report to the IRS. The one exception is here.
http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html
They only deal in bulk sales. When I liquidated last year, it all went to them however I am reporting the gains on my tax returns.
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Las Vegas, NV
Thanks iwog,
They charge less over spot on a lot of their silver than Apmex.
Hey, did you see their video on youtube? Good music and lots of eye candy!
&feature=youtu.be&hd=1
So, that's it for you? No more metals? What's your take on the latest bull/bear market debate in gold and silver? If the long term trend line is still intact, and there's ample evidence of price suppression/manipulation, and given the fact that the Fed is poised to step in with more easing at any significant pull back in equities, wouldn't you find that a case for holding this stuff long? At least until policies change? Weren't you calling for silver to retrace to the teens in Jan? What's your take now-a-days?
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47 male
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I still own some gold and silver, but only a fraction of what I used to have.
My feeling is that the big guys have already left the building. Silver's trendline is actually pretty brutal.
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Las Vegas, NV
Do you consider those two big drops from 49'ish to 35, and later from 40 to 30 as evidence of big players leaving the market? Aren't those precipitous falls due to gigantic amounts of naked short selling by government-friendly banks? Chase (The London Whale) and HSBC, right? Once their orchestrated sell orders triggered cascading algorithms, they waited a sec and then stepped right back in with massive purchases of physical. So, they sell shitloads of paper silver to suppress the market, and then step in when silver's on sale and accumulate, but they don't leave the market. Anyway, I hope silver doesn't drop below 26 'cause then the bull market might in fact be over.
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The problem with silver is that it's an industrial metal and has far more in common with copper than gold. Silver is consumed and forever lost at a tremendous rate. It is also produced just as fast.
For several years now worldwide silver production has outstripped consumption with the balance devoted to hoarding. (exactly the opposite was the case 10 years ago) Stockpiles continue to grow, which is an unstable situation for speculation.
Gold is a bit more questionable because of the fundamental weakness in fiat currency, but gold production is skyrocketing as all the old closed mines reopen to take advantage of the price. I don't have numbers on new gold production, but it's substantial.
My rule is 6 months or less can be a correction, but anything as long as a year is a trend. I don't think silver and gold are good investments now.
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It’s incontrovertible that the silver trend line looks horrible, but the reasons I believe silver MAY go higher are:
The Fed’s negative real interest rate policy is supposed to stretch through 2014, and if you look at past charts of negative real interest rates, and compare ‘em to gold and silver, it’s always bullish for metals.
The plight of fiat currencies and global debt issues. What do you do if you’re a central bank and your debt threatens to get so big that you can’t service it? Print more money and devalue your debt. Unless there’s a paradigm shift, fiat currencies will continue their iniquitous decent in the future which is bullish for metals.
The military industrial complex and US hegemony. Why develop all that technology and build all those bombs if you don’t intend to use ‘em? War with Iran (for instance) would be bullish for oil, and gold (and therefore silver) would likely tag along.
The US is waging digital currency war with both enemies and allies by threatening countries to not do business with Iran via the SWIFT system. This forces countries to figure out ways to realize commerce without the USD. Iran and India are now exchanging oil for gold. Bad for the dollar. Bullish for metals!
Supply and demand. There is a finite amount of gold/silver. In 2004, According to the Silver Institute there were only 671 million ounces left of identifiable silver bullion left in the world http://www.silverinstitute.org/publications/index.php. “World demand for silver—for industrial, medical and investment uses—now exceeds annual silver production, and has every year since 1990”. Eventually silver will run out. Not saying anytime soon. But that’s the endgame. When there’s less and less of something it gains value.
But what the hell do I know!? I bought a house in ’07 and lost 100 grand, for instance. lol I actually wish I woulda come to these conclusions back in 1998.
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Hey, why is the fact that silver's an industrial metal bearish? I guess if the world economy shrunk there would be less demand, but wouldn't a shrinking economy be bullish for metals as a safe haven? I don't get it.
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Less demand for silver due to shrinking economy = lower silver prices.
The pro PM argument I hear a lot is that Central Banks (CB's) don't hold silver, they hold gold, so if you want to use PM's as a store of value of sorts vs. paper money you should use gold and not silver.
I probably wouldn't touch silver unless it got near 20/oz spot, but then I started buying when it was closer to 12/oz and the premiums were less than a dollar per oz and sold when it was around 43/oz so the current prices don't pencil out to me at all.
Gold is still very expensive right now but many pro PM folks think it'll get higher. The people who I'd refer to as "reasonable" think it'll top out around $3k/oz, the people who I'd refer to as "insane" think it will top out at $10k+/oz. Personally I don't think the government would let the latter scenario occur but that is me reading tea leaves so I don't recommend you go placing bets based on that.