Patrick.net

Back in 2001, the CBO projected a cumulative surplus of $6 trillion

By marcus   Follow   Fri, 6 Apr 2012, 9:55pm   9,402 views   84 comments
In Glendale CA 91206   Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

The source for this is said to be the CBO.

http://imgur.com/QNI2F

Most Liked Comments

1. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 273 threads 12,512 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   1   1:07am Sat 7 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected   You'll never get a Republican to discuss the facts presented on your chart.

2. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

   2   7:39am Sat 7 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Past performance is the best indicator of future behavior. Vote Republican if you want massive debt and enormous unfunded liabilities.

3. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

   3   6:48pm Sat 7 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Our great grandchildren will still be paying for the eight years of Conservative policies that lasted from 2000 to 2008. Vote Republican for more of the same: More Middle East war, more bloated defense budgets, more nation building, and shipping the rest of America's wealth overseas.

4. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

   4   8:56am Sun 8 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   I'm still waiting for the Conservatives to weigh in here. Why all the silence?

5. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 273 threads 12,512 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   5   11:36am Sun 8 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected   Honest Abe says Here, try this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_public_debt Your messiah has spent more than virtually all past presidents combined. You people live in fantasyland. Abe is very typical of today's Republicans. He TOTALLY ignores the thread, the graph, and any data associated with it. He simply will not allow himself to talk about things he's not allowed to talk about. Instead he posts a non-relevant link and repeats the talking point drilled into him by Newscorp. This is intellectual death folks.

6. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,071 comments

   6   11:39am Sun 8 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Honest Abe says Your messiah has spent more than virtually all past presidents combined. You people live in fantasyland. Translation: This topic is far beyond Abe's comprehension. Imagine a household that was already living way beyond its means and then expenses stayed the same while income dropped drastically. This same kind of scenario is what lead to the exploding deficits under Obama. The expenses of two wars, medicare part D, and the Bush tax cuts, all continued, along with the rest of federal govt, while GDP and tax revenues dropped, to levels way below what had been expected.

7. Bellingham Bill Follow Befriend 29 threads 1,476 comments Bellingham, WA Premium

   7   1:06pm Thu 12 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected   socal2 says At what point does Obama and the Democrats get to share some responsibility for our economic condition? The critical economic mistakes were made 1995-2006. The Republicans were in control of everything but the WH (1995-2000) and Senate (2001-2002). However (as TTS says immediately above) framing this as a Team Red vs Team Blue issue is muddying things. This is really a Conservative vs Liberal issue. The mistakes that were made were driven by conservative ideologies -- free trade with China (MFN) & Mexico (NAFTA), "Drill baby Drill" as our sole national energy policy, Deregulation of the FIRE sector (Gramm–Leach–Bliley, eliminating regulatory oversight of lending 2001-2005), "Reagan Proved Deficits Don't Matter" (Cheney), refusing to reform private medical services but just subsidize them with Federal spending (Medicare C & D), and the wars of course. Now, all of this was active policy-making by Republicans, and they were able to find enough red-state / "centrist" Democrats to go along with these hare-brained ideas. As a result of these policies, our cumulative trade deficit with China is over $3T, foreigners now hold over $5T of our sovereign debt (100 million man-years of labor @ $25/hr), we're still over-reliant on $120+ oil, we're still in the hangover period from the 1999-2006 consumer credit bubble: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=6q1 and we're still paying 2-3X the OECD per-capita on medical costs, $8000 per capita when everybody else is in the $3000 range. You guys fucked everything up 1995-2006, and if you were intellectually honest with yourself you'd be able to see it. And what's even worse is that the Republicans want to double-down on all these past mistakes. More war spending, more tax cuts, more trade deficits (the two Republican debates I checked didn't talk about our $700B+/yr trade deficit at all), no attempt to reform our wasteful $2.5T/yr medical sector, heckling shit like Solyndra instead of proposing their own R&D initiatives. The Republicans (remaining in control of the House and at least in a blocking position in the Senate) are going to continue driving this country straight into the ground economically. Things are going to start getting brutal later this decade. I don't plan on being here, fwiw, I think events are just dialed in now and there is no escape other than a) being independently wealthy to afford living in a 'Fortress' or b) GTFO.

8. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 273 threads 12,512 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   8   1:54pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected   Honest Abe says This just in to refute Marcus original post: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/5-trillion-man-debt-has-increased-under-obama-502776147648456 And there you have it. You didn't refute anything. No one disputes the increase in debt while Obama has been in the White House. The original post ONLY deals with who is responsible for the $5 trillion debt through legislation and executive power. I've explained this to you before, yet you persist on being wantonly ignorant about the topic of the thread. When someone attempts to discuss it with you, you run and hide only to return days later with a completely irrelevant link. Unfortunately your pathetic behavior is pretty much par for Republicans now.

9. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 273 threads 12,512 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   9   4:44pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected   Honest Abe says Iwog, perhaps I missed it...specifically where is it stated that the original post deals ONLY with who is responsible for the $5 TRILLION debt through legislation and executive power?????? BTW, I love your vitriolic attacks, it means I struck a nerve. This isn't complicated. What do you think the original post is about? The $5 trillion is clearly visible in the graph. Just over $1 trillion of it is blue (Obama policies) and almost all of that is the stimulus bill. The rest is all green, indicating it's debt created from the policies of George Bush and the Republican congress. Most of us understand that Bush bills like Medicare D and war adventurism lock spending into the budget for decades in advance. You countered the graph by posting several links indicating gross debt increase under Obama. You either can't read the graph, or you're being disingenuous. Which is it?

10. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,071 comments

    10   6:51pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Honest Abe says Your hero, in three and one half years, has increased the debt $5.0 Trillion Abe is incapable of understanding that Bush policies still in place during Obama's preidency would have added to the debt (during Obama's Preidency) even if the economy was way better than it is. But since it fell off the cliff in a financial crisis, lowering revenues (but with Bush tax cuts and war spending still in place), it accounts for a big part of the debt he wants to blame on Obama. If that lie basically makes it easier for you to condemn Obama, okay. SOme of us just wish you were a little more intellectually honest.

11. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    11   10:40am Sat 7 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   iwog says You'll never get a Republican to discuss the facts presented on your chart. I hear crickets chirping.

12. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,071 comments

    12   10:56am Sat 7 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike

13. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,071 comments

    13   1:10pm Sat 7 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Yes, ummm.... that sums it up perfectly. Glad to see that as always you completely understand where I'm coming from.

14. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    14   3:13pm Sat 7 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   iwog says You'll never get a Republican to discuss the facts presented on your chart. Chirp...chirp...chirp...

15. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    15   3:14pm Sat 7 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Where's all the Conservatives who insist that Obama created this massive national debt? Someone please set us straight.

16. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 273 threads 12,512 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    16   5:02pm Sat 7 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected   CaptainShuddup says So in other words this crappiest economic time since the black plague isnb't really happening, right Marcus? I bet you crap candy cane stools in your world. Why are you so scared to talk about the graph? Why does irrational fear of liberals rule your life?

17. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 273 threads 12,512 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    17   1:09pm Sun 8 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike (1)   Protected   Conversation with a Republican Board: "Abe, what do you think about Bush being responsible for most of the deficit spending under Obama?" Abe: "OBAMA SPENDED ALL DA MONEY!!!" Board: "No Abe, we're talking about the fact that Obama's budget includes huge spending increases left to him by the Bush administration. What do you think about that? Abe: "OBAMA SPENDED ALL DA MONEY!!! Lookie I got links!!!" Board: "Uh Abe, George Bush and the Republican congress enacted a massive entitlement program called Medicare D which has had a significant effect on the current budget and will affect government spending for decades to come. Don't you think that Obama shouldn't be blamed for this? Abe: "OBAMA SPENDED ALL DA MONEY!!! I SMART, YOU DUM DUM!"

18. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,071 comments

    18   1:44pm Sun 8 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Honest Abe says http://cnsnews.com/node/72404 And this from YOUR TRUSTED NETWORK NEWS SOURCE. "In the first 19 months of the Obama administration, the federal debt held by the public increased by $2.5260 trillion, which is more than the cumulative total of the national debt held by the public that was amassed by all U.S. presidents from George Washington through Ronald Reagan." Yes it took longer for Bush to accomplish the same, but he did it during decent economics growth with off the books spending on wars, I might add (a practice that Obama ended). Yes, Obama added some minor spending, but that's not where the deficit came from. Bush's wars spending and tax cut spending and medicare part D spending all continued under Obama, except tax revenues decreased. I don't argue with you because I expect you to comprehend any of this Abe. But I guess I can hope that one or two intelligent republicans read it and maybe get a new insight or two.

19. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 273 threads 12,512 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    19   4:35pm Sun 8 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected   thomas.wong1986 says As the chart shows... War, 2001 recession, just like back in 1940s plus global competition You've just described the gray area. That's hardly addressing the main point now is it. thomas.wong1986 says Tax cut was made to spur investment capital spending into US industries. It was? Then how come it didn't work?

20. Bellingham Bill Follow Befriend 29 threads 1,476 comments Bellingham, WA Premium

    20   2:51am Mon 9 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected   marcus says Why isn't this story being shouted from the roof tops ? ( I know the answer - we've swung so far to the right that even the left is to the right of what should be center ) It's all a big con job. There's $2.5T left to steal from the middle class -- their excess social security tax payments that have accrued 1990-2009. Take about 10% of the 12.4% SSA taxes you paid during that time -- that plus compounding interest is what's at stake here. It's going to be like taking candy from a baby really, some Republican operatives mau mauing and rioting like they did in late 2000 to shut discussion and the rule of law down. Who's going to defend the middle class's $2.5T sitting in the "trust fund"? The corporate press? They're the ones who are on the hook for paying back that money -- ~$100B/yr in extra taxes -- as is anyone who's income ISN'T hit by FICA -- this year's cap is at $110,000. Politicians? Their campaign contributions don't come from the 90% who earn under the cap. The System is searching for a way to apply the Big Screw one more time. There's enough conservatives running around now to finally get what they want and destroy the New Deal and roll back what's left of LBJ's Great Society too. This is about to become a much meaner place. marcus says I wonder how much has to do with people simply making less. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=6jK less and less income is coming from wages. iwog says It was? Then how come it didn't work? iwog, you're asking about their religion. You know it's bullshit, they know it's bullshit, but we have to pretend that these people are serious and not the clowns they are -- it's really quite bizarre. What the Bush tax cuts really did was help get the housing boom going more than anything. Boosting the child credit really stuffed more money into family budgets, and they went right out and bid up the cost of housing, probably dollar for dollar. Back in 2001 this was before I got into Georgism, so I didn't see this dynamic beforehand, but now I hope this 'all-devouring rent' principle is as clear as day to everyone. More tax cuts aren't going to fix anything, either. The core problem is the rich are making all the money now and the lower 90% are increasingly getting tapped by life expenses -- rents, health care, education, energy, and the $300B/yr out of our paychecks going to China and not coming back. http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html 2013 is going to be an interesting political battle should Obama beat Romney. Just reinstating the Bush tax rates isn't going to fix anything but it will be an interesting experiment to see what rents and home prices do. Last time Congress raised income taxes in 1991-93 home prices did take it in the pants. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=6k6