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Best Cities To Buy, Best Cities To Rent

By Patrick   Follow   Wed, 18 Apr 2012, 10:30am   11,602 views   115 comments
In Menlo Park CA 94025   Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

Using more than 5 million rents and prices, here are cities in the US ranked from best to worst deals for buyers, expressed as number of months of average rent it takes to buy an average house.

Best deal for buyers is El Mirage, AZ.

+------------------------+-------+--------+
| city                   | state | months |
+------------------------+-------+--------+
| El Mirage              | AZ    |     92 |
| Youngtown              | AZ    |     93 |
| Sun City               | CA    |    109 |
| Laguna Woods           | CA    |    109 |
| Tolleson               | AZ    |    110 |
| Buckeye                | AZ    |    112 |
| Adelanto               | CA    |    112 |
| Maricopa               | AZ    |    113 |
| North Las Vegas        | NV    |    113 |
| Philadelphia           | PA    |    114 |
| Victorville            | CA    |    114 |
| Hesperia               | CA    |    115 |
| Winter Haven           | FL    |    118 |
| Laveen                 | AZ    |    120 |
| Champaign              | IL    |    121 |
| Avondale               | AZ    |    121 |
| Rialto                 | CA    |    121 |
| Lancaster              | CA    |    128 |
| Moreno Valley          | CA    |    128 |
| Antioch                | CA    |    135 |
| Reno                   | NV    |    137 |
| Glendale               | AZ    |    141 |
| Sun City               | AZ    |    144 |
| Palmdale               | CA    |    145 |
| Surprise               | AZ    |    148 |
| Fontana                | CA    |    152 |
| Tulare                 | CA    |    153 |
| San Pablo              | CA    |    154 |
| Tracy                  | CA    |    155 |
| Vallejo                | CA    |    157 |
| Oakley                 | CA    |    157 |
| Queen Creek            | AZ    |    157 |
| College Station        | TX    |    158 |
| Hercules               | CA    |    160 |
| Evansville             | IN    |    162 |
| Salinas                | CA    |    163 |
| National City          | CA    |    164 |
| Las Vegas              | NV    |    164 |
| Pacoima                | CA    |    166 |
| Peoria                 | AZ    |    170 |
| Yuma                   | AZ    |    170 |
| Rancho Cucamonga       | CA    |    170 |
| Gilbert                | AZ    |    174 |
| Suisun City            | CA    |    175 |
| Columbia               | SC    |    178 |
| Kennewick              | WA    |    178 |
| Chino                  | CA    |    180 |
| Corona                 | CA    |    181 |
| American Canyon        | CA    |    182 |
| Providence             | RI    |    182 |
| Rochester              | MN    |    183 |
| Spanaway               | WA    |    184 |
| Goodyear               | AZ    |    185 |
| Yelm                   | WA    |    185 |
| Beaumont               | CA    |    185 |
| Pittsburg              | CA    |    186 |
| Lawrence               | KS    |    188 |
| Fresno                 | CA    |    188 |
| Litchfield Park        | AZ    |    190 |
| Vacaville              | CA    |    190 |
| Citrus Heights         | CA    |    190 |
| Frederick              | MD    |    190 |
| Rancho Cordova         | CA    |    191 |
| Springfield            | MO    |    191 |
| Ypsilanti              | MI    |    192 |
| Denver                 | CO    |    192 |
| Orting                 | WA    |    192 |
| San Marcos             | TX    |    192 |
| Emeryville             | CA    |    193 |
| Tempe                  | AZ    |    197 |
| Grove City             | OH    |    198 |
| Lincoln                | NE    |    199 |
| Anthem                 | AZ    |    200 |
| Salem                  | OR    |    201 |
| Temecula               | CA    |    201 |
| Canyon Country         | CA    |    201 |
| Phoenix                | AZ    |    202 |
| Tallahassee            | FL    |    202 |
| Modesto                | CA    |    203 |
| Orlando                | FL    |    204 |
| Mesa                   | AZ    |    204 |
| Inglewood              | CA    |    206 |
| Rohnert Park           | CA    |    207 |
| Richmond               | CA    |    210 |
| Stanton                | CA    |    211 |
| Carson                 | CA    |    212 |
| Ithaca                 | NY    |    212 |
| Banning                | CA    |    213 |
| Athens                 | GA    |    214 |
| Brentwood              | CA    |    214 |
| Pomona                 | CA    |    214 |
| Chandler               | AZ    |    215 |
| Winston Salem          | NC    |    217 |
| Stockton               | CA    |    218 |
| Winter Park            | FL    |    220 |
| Panorama City          | CA    |    222 |
| Graham                 | WA    |    222 |
| Fredericksburg         | VA    |    222 |
| Sun City West          | AZ    |    222 |
| Indianapolis           | IN    |    223 |
| Baldwin Park           | CA    |    223 |
| Sacramento             | CA    |    224 |
| Sylmar                 | CA    |    225 |
| Azusa                  | CA    |    225 |
| Glen Burnie            | MD    |    226 |
| Spring Valley          | CA    |    226 |
| Chula Vista            | CA    |    227 |
| Concord                | CA    |    227 |
| Honolulu               | HI    |    227 |
| Portland               | ME    |    227 |
| Beaverton              | OR    |    227 |
| Sierra Vista           | AZ    |    227 |
| Norwalk                | CA    |    229 |
| Hillsboro              | OR    |    229 |
| Gwynn Oak              | MD    |    230 |
| El Sobrante            | CA    |    231 |
| Hollister              | CA    |    232 |
| Columbus               | OH    |    233 |
| Bonney Lake            | WA    |    233 |
| Aliso Viejo            | CA    |    234 |
| Lacey                  | WA    |    235 |
| Marysville             | WA    |    235 |
| Seal Beach             | CA    |    236 |
| Charlottesville        | VA    |    241 |
| Reseda                 | CA    |    242 |
| Rochester              | NY    |    242 |
| San Luis Obispo        | CA    |    243 |
| Manteca                | CA    |    245 |
| Newark                 | CA    |    246 |
| Lakeside               | CA    |    246 |
| Fort Collins           | CO    |    246 |
| San Marcos             | CA    |    247 |
| Pinole                 | CA    |    247 |
| Fairfield              | CA    |    248 |
| Winnetka               | CA    |    248 |
| Rancho Santa Margarita | CA    |    249 |
| Cerritos               | CA    |    250 |
| Centralia              | WA    |    250 |
| Florence               | AZ    |    251 |
| La Mirada              | CA    |    253 |
| Albuquerque            | NM    |    254 |
| Orange                 | CA    |    256 |
| Valencia               | CA    |    257 |
| Big Bear City          | CA    |    258 |
| Tucson                 | AZ    |    258 |
| New Haven              | CT    |    258 |
| Hayward                | CA    |    259 |
| Flagstaff              | AZ    |    259 |
| North Hills            | CA    |    259 |
| Lakewood               | CA    |    260 |
| Oceanside              | CA    |    260 |
| Everett                | WA    |    261 |
| Gainesville            | FL    |    262 |
| Snohomish              | WA    |    262 |
| Union City             | CA    |    262 |
| Daly City              | CA    |    263 |
| Jacksonville           | FL    |    263 |
| El Cajon               | CA    |    263 |
| Auburn                 | WA    |    266 |
| Redding                | CA    |    266 |
| Discovery Bay          | CA    |    266 |
| Granada Hills          | CA    |    267 |
| Gardena                | CA    |    267 |
| Federal Way            | WA    |    268 |
| Lake Stevens           | WA    |    269 |
| South San Francisco    | CA    |    269 |
| Shelton                | WA    |    270 |
| Kent                   | WA    |    271 |
| Santa Clarita          | CA    |    273 |
| Colorado Springs       | CO    |    273 |
| Benicia                | CA    |    274 |
| Cookeville             | TN    |    275 |
| Mountlake Terrace      | WA    |    275 |
| San Bruno              | CA    |    275 |
| Granite Falls          | WA    |    276 |
| Boulder                | CO    |    278 |
| Wilmington             | NC    |    280 |
| Marina Del Rey         | CA    |    282 |
| Tacoma                 | WA    |    282 |
| La Mesa                | CA    |    282 |
| Anaheim                | CA    |    282 |
| Bellflower             | CA    |    282 |
| Olympia                | WA    |    283 |
| Eugene                 | OR    |    283 |
| Puyallup               | WA    |    285 |
| Dublin                 | CA    |    285 |
| Acton                  | CA    |    287 |
| Port Orchard           | WA    |    288 |
| San Leandro            | CA    |    290 |
| Murfreesboro           | TN    |    293 |
| Renton                 | WA    |    295 |
| Tustin                 | CA    |    296 |
| Bothell                | WA    |    296 |
| Nashville              | TN    |    296 |
| Bremerton              | WA    |    296 |
| Lake Forest            | CA    |    297 |
| La Habra               | CA    |    297 |
| Mission Viejo          | CA    |    298 |
| Garden Grove           | CA    |    298 |
| Cave Creek             | AZ    |    298 |
| Canoga Park            | CA    |    298 |
| Albany                 | CA    |    298 |
| San Pedro              | CA    |    299 |
| Monroe                 | WA    |    300 |
| Irvine                 | CA    |    300 |
| Vista                  | CA    |    301 |
| Kingston               | WA    |    303 |
| Ballwin                | MO    |    303 |
| Gilroy                 | CA    |    303 |
| Imperial Beach         | CA    |    303 |
| Henderson              | NV    |    304 |
| Spokane                | WA    |    305 |
| Simi Valley            | CA    |    305 |
| Santa Ana              | CA    |    306 |
| Poway                  | CA    |    307 |
| San Diego              | CA    |    308 |
| Playa Del Rey          | CA    |    308 |
| Buena Park             | CA    |    309 |
| Ann Arbor              | MI    |    309 |
| Camarillo              | CA    |    310 |
| Hacienda Heights       | CA    |    310 |
| Pleasant Hill          | CA    |    311 |
| Cypress                | CA    |    312 |
| San Jose               | CA    |    313 |
| Chatsworth             | CA    |    313 |
| Placentia              | CA    |    313 |
| Milpitas               | CA    |    314 |
| Tumwater               | WA    |    314 |
| Oakland                | CA    |    315 |
| Van Nuys               | CA    |    315 |
| West Covina            | CA    |    316 |
| Duvall                 | WA    |    317 |
| Fullerton              | CA    |    317 |
| Maple Valley           | WA    |    317 |
| Woodland Hills         | CA    |    321 |
| Alameda                | CA    |    322 |
| Stanwood               | WA    |    323 |
| Arlington              | WA    |    323 |
| Fremont                | CA    |    327 |
| Westminster            | CA    |    329 |
| North Hollywood        | CA    |    331 |
| North Bend             | WA    |    333 |
| Redmond                | WA    |    333 |
| Lynnwood               | WA    |    334 |
| Berkeley               | CA    |    334 |
| Culver City            | CA    |    334 |
| San Ramon              | CA    |    335 |
| Hawthorne              | CA    |    335 |
| Scottsdale             | AZ    |    335 |
| Santa Clara            | CA    |    336 |
| Bend                   | OR    |    337 |
| Martinez               | CA    |    339 |
| Poulsbo                | WA    |    342 |
| Kenmore                | WA    |    342 |
| Livermore              | CA    |    344 |
| Lakewood               | WA    |    344 |
| Woodinville            | WA    |    345 |
| Silverdale             | WA    |    346 |
| Novato                 | CA    |    347 |
| Oak Harbor             | WA    |    348 |
| Santa Rosa             | CA    |    348 |
| Long Beach             | CA    |    350 |
| San Francisco          | CA    |    352 |
| Brea                   | CA    |    356 |
| Pacifica               | CA    |    357 |
| Half Moon Bay          | CA    |    358 |
| Laguna Niguel          | CA    |    358 |
| Alhambra               | CA    |    358 |
| Northridge             | CA    |    359 |
| Monrovia               | CA    |    359 |
| Glendale               | CA    |    359 |
| Ocean Shores           | WA    |    360 |
| Camano Island          | WA    |    360 |
| Walnut Creek           | CA    |    362 |
| La Verne               | CA    |    362 |
| Castro Valley          | CA    |    365 |
| Savannah               | GA    |    367 |
| Seattle                | WA    |    367 |
| Bainbridge Island      | WA    |    367 |
| Altadena               | CA    |    369 |
| San Mateo              | CA    |    370 |
| Costa Mesa             | CA    |    371 |
| Claremont              | CA    |    371 |
| Watsonville            | CA    |    372 |
| San Anselmo            | CA    |    373 |
| University Place       | WA    |    373 |
| Torrance               | CA    |    373 |
| Port Ludlow            | WA    |    377 |
| Mountain View          | CA    |    378 |
| Carlsbad               | CA    |    384 |
| Burbank                | CA    |    384 |
| Bellingham             | WA    |    385 |
| Pasadena               | CA    |    388 |
| Los Alamitos           | CA    |    388 |
| Sunnyvale              | CA    |    389 |
| Carmichael             | CA    |    390 |
| Valley Village         | CA    |    391 |
| Edmonds                | WA    |    391 |
| Fallbrook              | CA    |    392 |
| Snoqualmie             | WA    |    393 |
| Issaquah               | WA    |    393 |
| Petaluma               | CA    |    395 |
| Los Angeles            | CA    |    396 |
| Campbell               | CA    |    398 |
| Morgan Hill            | CA    |    399 |
| Rowland Heights        | CA    |    402 |
| El Cerrito             | CA    |    403 |
| Kirkland               | WA    |    407 |
| Agoura Hills           | CA    |    411 |
| Napa                   | CA    |    412 |
| Sammamish              | WA    |    413 |
| Escondido              | CA    |    416 |
| Millbrae               | CA    |    417 |
| Redmond                | OR    |    419 |
| San Rafael             | CA    |    421 |
| Anacortes              | WA    |    424 |
| San Carlos             | CA    |    425 |
| Laguna Hills           | CA    |    426 |
| Bellevue               | WA    |    429 |
| Huntington Beach       | CA    |    432 |
| Santa Monica           | CA    |    433 |
| Encino                 | CA    |    437 |
| Rancho Palos Verdes    | CA    |    438 |
| Moraga                 | CA    |    445 |
| Alpine                 | CA    |    445 |
| Carnation              | WA    |    445 |
| Enumclaw               | WA    |    446 |
| Danville               | CA    |    447 |
| Mukilteo               | WA    |    447 |
| Healdsburg             | CA    |    449 |
| South Pasadena         | CA    |    454 |
| Palm Springs           | CA    |    456 |
| Redwood City           | CA    |    457 |
| Aptos                  | CA    |    460 |
| Alamo                  | CA    |    462 |
| Redondo Beach          | CA    |    466 |
| Santa Cruz             | CA    |    469 |
| San Juan Capistrano    | CA    |    469 |
| Vashon                 | WA    |    476 |
| Mill Valley            | CA    |    478 |
| Cupertino              | CA    |    478 |
| Tarzana                | CA    |    478 |
| Capitola               | CA    |    479 |
| Sausalito              | CA    |    489 |
| Sherman Oaks           | CA    |    490 |
| Chico                  | CA    |    493 |
| Gig Harbor             | WA    |    497 |
| Pleasanton             | CA    |    499 |
| Studio City            | CA    |    503 |
| Encinitas              | CA    |    506 |
| Sonoma                 | CA    |    506 |
| Mercer Island          | WA    |    510 |
| West Hollywood         | CA    |    516 |
| Arcadia                | CA    |    522 |
| Monterey               | CA    |    527 |
| Palo Alto              | CA    |    537 |
| Venice                 | CA    |    538 |
| Saratoga               | CA    |    542 |
| Belmont                | CA    |    544 |
| Langley                | WA    |    545 |
| Los Gatos              | CA    |    548 |
| Fountain Hills         | AZ    |    550 |
| Menlo Park             | CA    |    573 |
| Dana Point             | CA    |    644 |
| Calabasas              | CA    |    677 |
| San Clemente           | CA    |    689 |
| Belvedere Tiburon      | CA    |    711 |
| Manhattan Beach        | CA    |    722 |
| Hermosa Beach          | CA    |    726 |
| Beverly Hills          | CA    |    752 |
| Laguna Beach           | CA    |    766 |
| Goleta                 | CA    |    771 |
| Burlingame             | CA    |    780 |
| La Jolla               | CA    |    799 |
| Malibu                 | CA    |    845 |
| Lafayette              | CA    |    850 |
| Newport Beach          | CA    |    863 |
+------------------------+-------+--------+

Worst deal for buyers is Newport Beach, CA.

If any reporters want to use this for a story, permission is granted as long as the story includes a live clickable link back to Patrick.net.

Viewing Comments 1-40 of 115     Next »     Last »     See most liked comments

1. Mobi Follow Befriend 1 threads 240 comments

   1   11:01am Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   It seems to me most of your data are from the pacific time zone area.

2. Michinaga Follow Befriend (2) 3 threads 283 comments

   2   11:13am Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Do the rents include maintenance/CC/HOA fees? Sale price / (rent + maintenance) means a lot more than just sale price vs. rent. Just yesterday I saw a 600 square foot condo in Manhattan for about $260k -- cheap until you see the $1600-per-month maintenance!

3. rooemoore Follow Befriend 41 threads 905 comments Ross, CA

   3   11:30am Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   This is a great data set, but I have some questions. First of all, are you comparing apples to apples? Single family homes for sale vs those for rent and stats for condos vs apartments? If not, your data could be getting skewed. Also, certain areas have unique circumstances. In Newport Beach there are tons of vacation rentals that are by the week in the summer but by the month in winter. Those nine winter months are quite the deal, but are reserved mostly for highly mobile folks (e.g. college students at UC Irvine.) To make this data relevant for most people trying to decide between renting or owning, you would need to somehow determine the nature of the rental. Apartments are almost surely long term, but many single family homes are not. In many of the cities on this list the homes that are renting are not long term and therefore could disrupt a family trying to settle in to a community. Not sure if harvesting this info is possible, but it is extremely important to the #1 demographic looking to buy: new families.

4. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   4   11:40am Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Mobi says It seems to me most of your data are from the pacific time zone area. Yep. There's no way that dataset accurately describes the entire U.S. It's useful comparing West Coast cities, but not much else.

5. rootvg Follow Befriend (8) 1 threads 792 comments Danville, CA Premium

   5   12:22pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   When I divide what we paid by our monthly rent, it comes to 254. The Danville average was 447. No HOA fees, nothing. Utilities are cheaper here than at the other place because the sprinkler system leaked and the house wasn't insulated properly. It was (by California standards) an older home. We got a hell of a deal. Nice extract, by the way.

6. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,762 comments

   6   12:30pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Wow it's mainly CA. Our state is just a mess.

7. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,185 threads 6,156 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

   7   1:43pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Mobi says It seems to me most of your data are from the pacific time zone area. Yes, that's true, because it's mostly Craigslist, which is more on the west coast. I used only zip codes for which I had at least 1000 rents and 1000 prices. Michinaga says Do the rents include maintenance/CC/HOA fees? No, just the advertised rents. But it still gives you an idea of the rent vs buy ratios. rowemoore says First of all, are you comparing apples to apples? No, just rents to prices no matter what kind of place it is. More of the rents are probably for apartments than houses, and more of the prices are probably for houses than apartments.. But since I do exactly the same measurement for every zip code, the result still seems valid: some places are better to rent in than other places. orbitron says Funny how this list is strongly correlated with desirability. Yes, the nicer neighborhoods have more expensive houses relative to renting the same thing. The funny part is this: The rich people should RENT and enjoy the nice area much cheaper than their owner neighbors, but they don't. They buy to impress their friends. So they lose money every month owning something they could rent much more cheaply. The poor people should BUY because their areas are cheap to buy in. But they can't, because they don't have the money or can't get a loan. So they lose money every month renting something they could own much more cheaply.

8. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   8   2:41pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says The funny part is this: The rich people should RENT and enjoy the nice area much cheaper than their owner neighbors, but they don't. They buy to impress their friends. So they lose money every month owning something they could rent much more cheaply. The poor people should BUY because their areas are cheap to buy in. But they can't, because they don't have the money or can't get a loan. So they lose money every month renting something they could own much more cheaply. That's a good point. I didn't know things were that out of balance.

9. bubblesitter Follow Befriend (5) 10 threads 2,329 comments

   9   6:37pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   What's up with Newport Beach? I mean,wow. I guess,bubble has just started deflating in CA.

10. LarryPatrickMaloney Follow Befriend (13) 57 threads 166 comments Mountain View, CA LarryPatrickMaloney's website

    10   6:57pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Kudos to Patrick! This is AWESOME data!!!! (Freshly queried from mysql no doubt :) Gotta hand it to you Patrick, that is good material!

11. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    11   9:57pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Where is this data from and how old is it? I live in Monterey and you have it listed at 527. It's nothing of the sort. $600,000 homes rent for around the $2500-3000 mark here.

12. robertoaribas Follow Befriend (23) 55 threads 3,780 comments Scottsdale, AZ robertoaribas's website

    12   11:23pm Wed 18 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   the first few in AZ are such shizzleholes, even I don't invest in them.... when vacancy is 20% plus, crime is too high etc, the advertised price/rent doesn't really matter so much...

13. KILLERJANE Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 600 comments

    13   7:30am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Good stuff. I am glad I don't own in CA anymore. I can buy property in cheap places and rent it out and use that rent income to live wherever I want.

14. tclement Follow Befriend (3) 8 threads 48 comments Oakland, CA

    14   7:51am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   In Newport Beach, I'd guess that all the houses are mansions, and all the rentals are the small apartments that house the servants who work there (or the grocery store clerks who work at the Albertson's).

15. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,185 threads 6,156 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    15   8:29am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says Where is this data from and how old is it? It's mostly from Craigslist from the last two years. tclement says In Newport Beach, I'd guess that all the houses are mansions, and all the rentals are the small apartments that house the servants who work there Yes, that may be true. All I'm saying is that the average rent is very small there compared to the average price.

16. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,185 threads 6,156 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    16   9:09am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   ptiemann says if I understand it right, the 'average' does not even take bedroom count into consideration, right? Right. Only group by was zip code. And then I consolidated all the zip codes with the same city name to get a single row for each city. I could make a big table with multiple columns for BR as well, but would people read that one? Anything I can do with the data you'd be willing to pay for, or that you think other people would pay for? Maybe real estate investors? ptiemann says Patrick, another data point to collect in your database would be the build date or date of last remodel. I am not sure where to scrape that though. Craig's list does not have it. Just need to find it. I think counties have that. Could I make a living just scraping all the county data and integrating it with Craigslist, HUD, census, FBI, school quality records? I'm not completely clear on who the customer would be though.

17. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    17   9:13am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says Bigsby says Where is this data from and how old is it? It's mostly from Craigslist from the last two years. tclement says In Newport Beach, I'd guess that all the houses are mansions, and all the rentals are the small apartments that house the servants who work there Yes, that may be true. All I'm saying is that the average rent is very small there compared to the average price. Actual experience says the figures are entirely inaccurate, at least for Monterey.

18. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,185 threads 6,156 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    18   9:26am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says Actual experience says the figures are entirely inaccurate, at least for Monterey. The actual figures are straight off of Craigslist and you can see all of them if you subscribe for $7 per week: http://patrick.net/housing/subscribe.php Or just write an open house review for a free week of access: http://patrick.net/forum/includes/post-new.php?cat_ID=11 You can claim the prices and rents are not right, but then you'd be wrong. These are provably the actual advertised rents and prices and the service even shows you exact addresses and dates.

19. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 2,000 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

    19   10:11am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   orbitron says Why are people so dumb??? Why do people with more money keep ruining my plans of having a mansion in Malibu? Great data point. So your argument to pay for an overinflated house is??? Because others people will, so you should also. That is the dumbest argument I have heard and I hear it over and over again. It is the thinking that creates bubbles. Are you not listening to the hiss that is coming out of this bubble now? Sorry if you are an owner and upset, there is more to come...

20. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 2,000 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

    20   10:18am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says Where is this data from and how old is it? I live in Monterey and you have it listed at 527. It's nothing of the sort. $600,000 homes rent for around the $2500-3000 mark here. Slowly, so you don't get scared. Maybe even one at at time and probably start when it is dark. The left one first, every so slightly. It has been a while. Let the photons hit the iris. Let the brain adjust, the picture will be fuzzy at first. There you go, you got it. Now open a little wider, get your bearings. Good. Now star the right one. Ever so slowly. Remember the last time your tried too fast. Now you got it. Both of them opened. You are now able to get depth. Half-way there, all that fuzziness will go away soon. Do a small but slow blink to remove the dirt and water. I know it hurts, nothing good comes from things being easy. You are 3/4 of the way! Just the last little bit. WAIT, WAIT, don't close them. Damit, you were almost there. OPEN them up again. Don't put your hands over your ears. Don't run away. Damit, Damit, Damit!! Another one lost to the realtors.

21. hanera Follow Befriend (3) 124 comments

    21   10:18am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says Bigsby says Where is this data from and how old is it? It's mostly from Craigslist from the last two years. The list is outdated because rents have shot up significantly. http://www.mercurynews.com/real-estate/ci_20416459/new-home-construction-pick-up-soon-report-suggests?source=autofeed#

22. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,185 threads 6,156 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    22   10:30am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   hanera says The list is outdated because rents have shot up significantly since Sep last year. In general, no that is not true, rents have not shot up. Though of course reators lie about that all the time. They lie all day long, to test whether they can part fools and money easily. Graph any zip code or city you want, here: http://patrick.net/housing/graphs.php?uaddr=Monterey%2C+ca&v=rents Though there probably are specific exceptions.

23. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,616 comments

    23   10:32am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says You can claim the prices and rents are not right, but then you'd be wrong. These are provably the actual advertised rents and prices and the service even shows you exact addresses and dates. I think the problem is you're seemingly comparing apples and oranges. Trying to group by BRs, age, or other data would help, but ultimately you almost need to sort out rent and sales price for the SAME house for the data to have real meaning.

24. hanera Follow Befriend (3) 124 comments

    24   10:38am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says Graph any zip code or city you want, here: http://patrick.net/housing/graphs.php?uaddr=Monterey%2C+ca&v=rents Using the calculator, number of months for Cupertino is 388 whereas the graph indicated 478.

25. clambo Follow Befriend (5) 1,070 comments Santa Cruz, CA

    25   10:38am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   It's interesting. I see that a house is more "expensive" in Monterey, although the median price is lower than Santa Cruz. The above numbers may also indicate how rent relates to the local situation, i.e. Santa Cruz has a hot rental market compared to Monterey. The University and thousands of (ready?) illegals have kept the rental market quite saturated. So, rents may be relatively lower in Monterey, the houses are cheaper, but you'd not guess that from the numbers.

26. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,185 threads 6,156 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA Premium

    26   10:38am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Sure, I could parse the data in other ways, but I'm pretty sure it will show the exact same thing: rich areas are bad to buy in, being very overpriced relative to renting the same thing, poor areas are good to buy in, being underpriced relative to renting the same thing. It's rare to find an exact same house that is both for rent and for sale recently. There is no parsing of the data that will ever convince people who have decided to buy that they are making a mistake. It's religion for them, not science. They need to believe, because otherwise it's too painful to see how badly they're getting screwed.

27. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 2,000 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

    27   10:59am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   hanera says Patrick says Bigsby says Where is this data from and how old is it? It's mostly from Craigslist from the last two years. The list is outdated because rents have shot up significantly. http://www.mercurynews.com/real-estate/ci_20416459/new-home-construction-pick-up-soon-report-suggests?source=autofeed# Yup, that is why I pay less now than in 1997. Incredible the rent increases! Mercury news has posted nothing but realtor gospel since the crash. Horrible place to look for anything close to the truth. When you clock on that link you provided, take a big guess what advertisement pops up in the body of the text? Amazingly an add from a "new home" builder. No conflict of interest there. Come one people, wise up. Also, if you want to get real current with new construction then check out the new results from today. So much for a pick-up-soon. http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2012/04/housing-starts-decline-in-march.html

28. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    28   11:06am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says Bigsby says Actual experience says the figures are entirely inaccurate, at least for Monterey. The actual figures are straight off of Craigslist and you can see all of them if you subscribe for $7 per week: http://patrick.net/housing/subscribe.php Or just write an open house review for a free week of access: http://patrick.net/forum/includes/post-new.php?cat_ID=11 You can claim the prices and rents are not right, but then you'd be wrong. These are provably the actual advertised rents and prices and the service even shows you exact addresses and dates. I'm not wrong. Saying that average house prices equate to 527 months of average rent in Monterey is just ridiculous. A cursory glance at sale prices and rents for equivalent properties makes that perfectly clear. My home is here, so I actually know.

29. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 2,000 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

    29   11:11am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says I'm not wrong. Saying that average house prices equate to 527 months of average rent in Monterey is just ridiculous. A cursory glance at sale prices and rents for equivalent properties makes that perfectly clear. My home is here, so I actually know. Oh, you live there. Wow. That makes everything you say gospel then. Why not do the work like Patrick is doing and back up your claims with real data. Huh? You don't have any, you just like to look at your house and the neighbors and then go around saying all kinds of wild accusations. Oh, then I take it back, I believe you now. ;)

30. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    30   11:11am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RentingForHalfTheCost says Slowly, so you don't get scared. Maybe even one at at time and probably start when it is dark. The left one first, every so slightly. It has been a while. Let the photons hit the iris. Let the brain adjust, the picture will be fuzzy at first. There you go, you got it. Now open a little wider, get your bearings. Good. Now star the right one. Ever so slowly. Remember the last time your tried too fast. Now you got it. Both of them opened. You are now able to get depth. Half-way there, all that fuzziness will go away soon. Do a small but slow blink to remove the dirt and water. I know it hurts, nothing good comes from things being easy. You are 3/4 of the way! Just the last little bit. WAIT, WAIT, don't close them. Damit, you were almost there. OPEN them up again. Don't put your hands over your ears. Don't run away. Damit, Damit, Damit!! Another one lost to the realtors. Don't be daft. I'm stating my view based on real life experience. Good 3 bed/2 bath houses in Monterey with a nice view of the bay go for somewhere in the region of $500 to 600K. These houses do NOT rent for $1000 a month. That is just a fact.

31. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 2,000 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

    31   11:12am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says Don't be daft. I'm stating my view based on real life experience. Good 3 bed/2 bath houses in Monterey with a nice view of the bay go for somewhere in the region of $500 to 600K. These houses do NOT rent for $1000 a month. That is just a fact. Your fact. Show the data like Patrick is doing. He has the data, you have your thoughts. No contest. What you are doing is daft. Also, I wouldn't mind picking up on of your 500K 3/2 with a nice view. Just a quick check on motovo gets me no such house. Maybe they are valued a little higher than you think?

32. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    32   11:13am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RentingForHalfTheCost says Bigsby says I'm not wrong. Saying that average house prices equate to 527 months of average rent in Monterey is just ridiculous. A cursory glance at sale prices and rents for equivalent properties makes that perfectly clear. My home is here, so I actually know. Oh, you live there. Wow. That makes everything you say gospel then. Why not do the work like Patrick is doing and back up your claims with real data. Huh? You don't have any, you just like to look at your house and the neighbors and then go around saying all kinds of wild accusations. Oh, then I take it back, I believe you now. ;) No need to get your knickers in a twist. Just look at MLS listings and sales and then the equivalent rents for such properties. It is nowhere near 527. Nowhere near.

33. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    33   11:18am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RentingForHalfTheCost says Bigsby says Don't be daft. I'm stating my view based on real life experience. Good 3 bed/2 bath houses in Monterey with a nice view of the bay go for somewhere in the region of $500 to 600K. These houses do NOT rent for $1000 a month. That is just a fact. Your fact. Show the data like Patrick is doing. He has the data, you have your thoughts. No contest. What you are doing is daft. Are you seriously saying to me that the Monterey houses that sold for the median price for March of 438K rent for $831? They don't.

34. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 2,000 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

    34   11:27am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says RentingForHalfTheCost says Bigsby says Don't be daft. I'm stating my view based on real life experience. Good 3 bed/2 bath houses in Monterey with a nice view of the bay go for somewhere in the region of $500 to 600K. These houses do NOT rent for $1000 a month. That is just a fact. Your fact. Show the data like Patrick is doing. He has the data, you have your thoughts. No contest. What you are doing is daft. Are you seriously saying to me that the Monterey houses that sold for the median price for March of 438K rent for $831? They don't. A quick search in Monterey gets me no 500K 3/2 with a nice view. I guess you mean on the foreclosure steps.

35. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 2,000 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

    35   11:28am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says No need to get your knickers in a twist. Just look at MLS listings and sales and then the equivalent rents for such properties. It is nowhere near 527. Nowhere near. Again, no data to back up your claims. You talk like you have data like Patrick's table, but I don't see any. I am just suppose to believe I guess. You a minister?

36. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    36   11:31am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RentingForHalfTheCost says Bigsby says Don't be daft. I'm stating my view based on real life experience. Good 3 bed/2 bath houses in Monterey with a nice view of the bay go for somewhere in the region of $500 to 600K. These houses do NOT rent for $1000 a month. That is just a fact. Your fact. Show the data like Patrick is doing. He has the data, you have your thoughts. No contest. What you are doing is daft. Also, I wouldn't mind picking up on of your 500K 3/2 with a nice view. Just a quick check on motovo gets me no such house. Maybe they are valued a little higher than you think? That's strange seeing as I just bought such a house a few months ago in Monte Vista with a sweeping view of the bay for the mid-500s. The house was being rented out for just shy of $3k before we moved in. Let me just get my calculator...

37. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    37   11:37am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RentingForHalfTheCost says Bigsby says No need to get your knickers in a twist. Just look at MLS listings and sales and then the equivalent rents for such properties. It is nowhere near 527. Nowhere near. Again, no data to back up your claims. You talk like you have data like Patrick's table, but I don't see any. I am just suppose to believe I guess. You a minister? Go to Craigslist and show me say a 1600 sq ft house in 93940 that is renting for $1000. They don't exist. I do see a centrally located APARTMENT listed for $1600 though. A whole 1 bedroom and 1 bathroom with 800sq ft of glorious living. Oh, sorry, there is a property listed in the sub 1k range. That beauty is a whopping 390sq ft and a mere $995.

38. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 2,000 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

    38   11:39am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says That's strange seeing as I just bought such a house a few months ago in Monte Vista with a sweeping view of the bay for the mid-500s. The house was being rented out for just shy of $3k before we moved in. Let me just get my calculator... 1 data point with an obvious bias view of how good a deal you got verses 1000's of data point over multiple years. Again, no contest.

39. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    39   11:41am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RentingForHalfTheCost says Bigsby says That's strange seeing as I just bought such a house a few months ago in Monte Vista with a sweeping view of the bay for the mid-500s. The house was being rented out for just shy of $3k before we moved in. Let me just get my calculator... 1 data point with an obvious bias view of how good a deal you got verses 1000's of data point over multiple years. Again, no contest. I didn't get an especially good deal. It was a reasonable price at the time, but little different to comparable houses. Look at Craigslist and then look at current MLS listings for 93940 and then tell me that you think 527 is remotely accurate or would you rather believe Patrick than your own eyes?

40. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 2,000 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

    40   11:45am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says RentingForHalfTheCost says Bigsby says That's strange seeing as I just bought such a house a few months ago in Monte Vista with a sweeping view of the bay for the mid-500s. The house was being rented out for just shy of $3k before we moved in. Let me just get my calculator... 1 data point with an obvious bias view of how good a deal you got verses 1000's of data point over multiple years. Again, no contest. I didn't get an especially good deal. It was a reasonable price at the time, but little different to comparable houses. Some data just from today's craigslist. Lots of 3/2 rentals under 1500/mth. http://monterey.craigslist.org/apa/2961763346.html Whoever lived in your mid-500k home and was paying 3k/mth wasn't really getting a good deal.

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