WatchHi Patrick
I receive your real estate news every day, which is very interesting and I thank you very much . I have some questions which maybe you will be able to respond. I decided giving it a try, because it is very difficult to get opinions about the subject. As you know there quite some investment property agencies these days offering real estae in the USA, buy to let properties, partuclarly in place like Detroit,Atlanta, Buffalo/Rochester,Cleveland,St.Louis, Memphis, North Dakota and last but not least various places in Florida. It is unbelievable waht 30.000 dollars buy you in Detroit, it looks like a fantastic opportunity but is it really ? I am a Dutch citizen 64 years old, some money but not a lot and though of buying a few houses in order to at leats take care of 1500 dollars a month of ROI on these houses, together with a small pension of an other 1500 dollars owul make me survive.
Now the question is, is this really that good ? Are those property investment agencies reliable?, I cannot find information about them on the Internet, neithe positive nor negative. But back to the principle , the Detroit houese are mostly brick houses refurbished so should not cost a lot of maintenance for the next years, but will Detroit recuperate.In Atlanta houses are at around 50/60.000, does nt seem to have suffered that much but still coming down . Florida is still ´expensive ´ nothing decent dor less than 70.000 dollars . Memphis seem to be attractive and also St Louis, Buffalo is cheap and never came down, remains cheap but lots of misery overthere it seems.Well I am a little bit lost as you understand, would you be able to shed some light on my doubts?
Awaiting your appreciated reply and Thanks a lot.
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,191 threads
6,158 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
I must say that you should definitely not invest anything in Detroit until you have been there yourself. It is extremely dangerous in many places, with daily gunfire. My sister briefly lived in a beautiful and very cheap house in Detroit but could not relax hearing gunfire every night. Then her father-in-law was assaulted on her front lawn by a group of young black men. There is a lot of racial tension in Detroit. So she moved out. Wasn't worth it.
Could be rather difficult to collect rent under those circumstances. I'm not sure how a management agency could do it. I think that's why a lot of those places are so cheap.
Most of the places you mention have similar problems: Atlanta, Memphis, Cleveland. I don't really know about all of them.
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,222 comments
Premium
If you're into CANNIBAL ANARCHY, Detroit is the place for you!
Follow
Befriend
19 threads
1,534 comments
Los Angeles, CA
When only foreigners are willing to invest in your city - they really are dragging the bottom of the barrel for suckers.
You could buy a house for 10k and find a tenant. Then when they never pay rent and trash the place it will cost you another 10k in attorney fees/damage not to mention lost rent for a year.
It has to be lots of fun evicting someone in another country with all the language, time zone, legal, and distance barriers!
Basically if you are a small time landlord you have to self manage and be within one or two hour travel to your properties or you will lose money. There are exceptions.
Follow
Befriend
13 comments
Harrison, AR
My sister tried to photograph our childhood neighborhood in St. Louis, and was verbally abused by a black woman who thought that my sister was engaged in some sort of evidence gathering activity.
If the house is selling for less than $30,000, then the only potential tenants are likely to be minority members. You would have trouble finding reputable plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc., to enter those neighborhoods because they are afraid of being assaulted or having their vehicle vandalized or stolen.
"If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
Follow
Befriend (13)
103 threads
3,768 comments
I have an old friend who went out there and bought an apartment complex.
I don't know how he is doing. Haven't heard from him, and he isn't back so I imagine he is still trying to run his business there. But as Patrick said, go there first, see the place for yourself before making any decisions.
Follow
Befriend
19 threads
1,534 comments
Los Angeles, CA
Yes the OP should visit these places in detroit.
I recommend at least start with a virtual visit via google street view. Then proceed to look at any local crime maps online. Also the 'sex offenders map' for that county/city would be an eye opener. However - if you buy anything sight unseen you are running massive risk. I wouldnt even buy a pair of shoes without an in person inspection and people buy RENTAL HOMES sight unseen from other countries? might as send your money direct to Bernie Madoff types.
I also would never touch detroit - pipes freeze, crime beyond imagining and its a democrat area - so gonna be very tenant friendly in eviction. Think about NV/AZ there is no mold issues really and easy to evict compared to other states from what ive read.
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,222 comments
Premium
He could buy a block full of buildings and make it into a survivalists' theme park.
Follow
Befriend (5)
10 threads
2,329 comments
APOCALYPSEFUCK is Tony Manero says
Seriously? Investing in Detroit? you have no idea what you are getting into.
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,191 threads
6,158 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
My wife reminded me of my sister's other complaint: property taxes in the city of Detroit are very high, and services very poor.
Most of the property tax money disappears through simple corruption. The net result is that there is essentially no police protection and a huge crime problem.
Property tax is something like 6.7% for a $100,000 house in the city:
https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/ptestimator/PTEstimator.asp
Also interesting:
http://maximillionrich.hubpages.com/hub/Detroit-the-best-and-worst-place-to-invest-in-real-estate
Follow
Befriend
10 threads
419 comments
To be fair, a $100k house in Detroit worth $500k in SF, and pay $6k tax in SF.
Follow
Befriend (3)
803 comments
I lived in NY of course. The first part of my life was in Detroit however. I used to love the gunfire. Spring was especially nice falling asleep with my window open, sirens wailing. bullets ricocheting off the sidewalk.
Devils night was fun originally it was soaping car windows. Now they set your house on fire. I don't know how it got there. I left before that of course. They really get into that. Detroit people just kind of move along and you don't notice. Then all of a sudden wham its really like that to.
It's as cold as Buffalo there. You can kind of measure a line to Buffalo. What makes it cold of course are the lakes. I mean really cold. You don't know that kind of cold unless you live near Hudson Bay in Canada. You can't even see to the other side of Lake Erie not even with high powered binoculors its that big.
Otherwise you have a lot of WW2 tract housing all in blocks. Detroit is arranged in blocks. Homes that were built before that. Some after not that much new housing. I like the people that live there. Many of you might not. You might consider them a little slow in some area's.
Lots of Dutch, Anglo, Black. Lot of people of French descent. You have your Greektown. Italian etc.
All in all if your from California you might say WTF if you got there so Patrick is not all that far off.
I'm from near Dearborn which is Arab central. I like those people a lot. I used to play with some of them as a child. Why they all moved there I have not a clue. A lot of Chinese now and Russian they have been there for a long time. Lots of them to. Many live or lived in those grand old houses. I can spot a Russian 2 miles off. Or of Russian descent.
The reason Detroit even exsisted as Auto capital. Was the fact of all the Iron Ore up and down the Great lakes. There is a lot of iron production in Detroit. Some aren't aware of the fact.
Follow
Befriend
2 threads
43 comments
Berkeley, CA
Did not work out so well for this guy
http://www.theage.com.au/world/australian-property-developer-shot-dead-in-detroit-20110510-1eh7d.html
Follow
Befriend
2 threads
43 comments
Berkeley, CA
I am 64 years old and have some money , but not a lot and I would like to invest in a property management company in Detroit or other areas of America that I know nothing about because I live in Holland .
I also want to do this just after a global property bubble has burst and in the middle of a European debt crisis which even has the future of the Euro in doubt . Not only do i want to do that I also want to invest in a country that I know nothing about .
Even if I did a simply googled Detroit , I would discover that Detroit is not a place to buy property in .
You see this a lot in countries with high property prices . In Ireland during the boom there was no good property investment left for suckers so they started advertising in places like Bulgaria .
It ended up with hosting massive property expo's over a couple of days in halls that usually hosted U2 with ' Buy To Let ' buy off the plans in Eastern Europe and even as far away as New Zealand . Lots of people stung in Cape Varde .
I personally know people who were close to retirement and invested their entire IRA's and 401K's in developements in Dubai that were not even built and the developer walked away with their desposit .
I also seen this when I lived in Australia . Property there is still in a bubble . So what happens ? Property companies spring up offering ' investment deals ' in the US , mainly Detroit .
A fool and his money .
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
The words "investing" and "Detroit" should never be used in the same sentence. Unless the word "not" is thrown in there somewhere.
Follow
Befriend (4)
28 threads
776 comments
PockyClipsNow says
I wouldn't say that as the Boston Garden naming rights when to a Canadian bank (Toronto Dominion). I hear Brazilians are actually propping up the high end market in Miami.
Detroit varies..Johnny Knoxville of Jackass went to detroit..some of it was interesting
Photos do not always show everything. There is an account within some of the videos showing that shows a horrid empty school...ok...but if you zoom out right across the street there is a new one. Reports never show the new one.
Detroit is big...I mean really big. You can fit supposedly Boston, SF and Manhattan island in it and still have room. They have six lane roads and it isn't a highway, it was made for cars.
I would not try to maintain property in other countries because the price is just too high to travel. If you hire a company laws, rules and regulations might vary.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204294504576617280722057142.html
Supposedly the police created a task force just to deal with murder. Murders are down...but other crimes went up. Keep in mind also that if you ask any fireman in the country where the highest amount of fires is...it is detroit. WSJ had a article about the place turning around and one women finding out some ass tossed a Molotov into her bedroom window. Turned out to be some kid down the street.
Empty buildings are bad for a number of reasons but the biggest I'd say is if they catch fire and the fire spreads. Usually this happens if people start living in them and one thing leads to another. Even if no one is in there all it might take is a brush fire or a lightning bolt etc.
If you want to invest in detroit I wouldn't do it in housing...I'd try in restaurants. There are no big chains in the area. With that being the case you have a automatic advantage. Besides when you are serving food there is more of a deterrence against being attacked.
Follow
Befriend (3)
803 comments
Holland, expos, Australia "great movies by the way", Ira's. Well traveled of course. Good luck with your deposit
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,222 comments
Premium
Is Michigan a Stand Your Ground state?
If so, you could transform any house into an "Omega Man" theme park for short change.
Buy an abandoned house. Rip off all the doors and place four chairs in the parlor facing compass points.
You can rent each one for $500 a day to people who want to face off against burglars and blow them the fuck away.
A couple of advertisements in the NRA montly and Soldier of Fortune and you're in business.
What entertainment! Sit around smoking meth and blowing holes in attacking thugs. Who knows? You and your theme-park mates could end up in an exciting free fire fight with kill-crazed gangs.
Follow
Befriend
1 threads
241 comments
I believe there are "better" areas in Detroit that you can do rental investment. However, how can you know whether these so called investment property agencies are good property managers or not? How are you sure that it's not just a ponzi to rip you off? I know rental property management is a tricky business through personal experience so I wouldn't give my own money to agencies to invest in areas that I'm not familiar with.
Follow
Befriend
30 threads
555 comments
San Carlos, CA
APOCALYPSEFUCK is Tony Manero says
Having grown up not far from there, I concur. Our tag line for Detroit was and is, "Detroit: the city where the weak are killed and eaten."
I figured you'd appreciate that.
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,222 comments
Premium
pkowen says
I love it. Detroit is what America is all about.
Can't wait until the survivors show up at Bain Capital and chew on the skulls of the fuckers who've shipped the last American manufacturing job to the slave state called the PRC.
Scream, fuckers, scream! It sweetens the meat!
Follow
Befriend (3)
803 comments
Also yesterdays over-inflated house is todays so-what? Once again what they were asking for tract houses. Those little 2 and 1 bedrooms was ridiculous. Location is realtor bullshit. Location in terms of value is more relevant. Then again your putting out the Jack, Dirk so. Speculation has no real meaning if your a retail buyer obviously. In a few cases maybe but not many.
Rule should be however. At least for my friends here. 30 year mortgage for something built in 3 months split level etc. 6 months for something a little more detailed or larger. Is stupid business. Your getting burned really bad in a situation like that.
You take what is costs to build. More importantly than that is what they are retailing that material for to the builder. You need to find out what that really costs them to make. I'm not adding in their capital equipment. I could care less thats their problem. Retail means Re - add Tail a donkey tail on the idiot. So I see that perspective not as retail of course. Realtors aren't the worst culprits in all of this.
The people that make the material are then to the outlet where they add on also. A builder would say hey I know. However a lot of them don't even know what it really costs. They buy in bulk.
Fixed pricing in houses is out of the question. You figure free market. However everything in America is a fixed price. Which really ought to tell you one thing. Americans aren't the brightest bulbs in the socket. What they attempted to do to keep the Real Estate market "fixed price" was to introduce the realtor into the game with the licensing etc. Why? Because its about the only place that people buy from one another. Autos would be the other. Believe me I know how those boys think the cash printers. Being a Semite. Jesus saves. Moses negotiates the shit out of a deal.
Its very hard for me to live in a land with fixed prices everywhere. I get very upset in stores. I yell at clerks and managers. In a grocery store I throw stuff around the frozen food case. I put the meat back in the wrong place when looking at steak. Mumbling you MF's to myself. I'm just miserable in a store in America. I start cursing when I hit the door and don't stop till I get out of the store. Fixed pricing is very foreign to my nature. Once again I'm not a Hebrew. I'm a Semite we are like that. Of course the store managers that clerk for the big boys are all anti-semetic with their pricing schemes. So Fuck the quack of England, Rockefeller, Buffet. Do I go to the farmers market oh no I ain't that stupid. But straight to the farmer. Of the cold months? Farmers know how to store food. I have a cow and a bull and I let them fuck. Now you might not think I actually make cash that way I do.
The cash printers probably figure hey he's a sport. He will make out ok. I say hang-em. You might figure hey he can sneak to the inside of what these guys are doing and slicker them. DON'T THINK I DON'T.
Follow
Befriend
2 comments
well i must say you are dealing with the wrong companies because the company i deal with is amazing they find houses with all the houses on the block with alot of older tenants that are already placed paying from 500-1100 a month and taxes are cheap
Follow
Befriend (2)
8 threads
1,138 comments
Seattle, WA
David Losh's website
Premium
Detroit is the first American city poised to go bankrupt.
I would wait for the bankruptcy before I did anything there.
Follow
Befriend (23)
55 threads
3,836 comments
Scottsdale, AZ
robertoaribas's website
David Losh says
Says the guy who lost money on a damn near 25 year Atlanta investment. The guy who missed the bottom in Seattle, and thinks homes with under 500 PITI payments rented for 1100 a month are a bad idea
Yeah, the stupidest person to ever post her, thinks you shouldn't buy in Detroit....not based on any data or anything, like every other opinion he ventured, pulled straight from his butt.
I don't know anything about Detroit, but since I'm not a complete moron like David lush, I won't give a opinion about Detroit without some price versus rent data, etc.
Follow
Befriend (2)
8 threads
1,138 comments
Seattle, WA
David Losh's website
Premium
robertoaribas says
Yeah, price versus rent data, that'll do it. That'll tell you something about Detroit.
Hey, what do you think the impact would be of a city bankruptcy?
robertoaribas says
I'll tell you here while you are following me around wtih your whining that we made money on that condo in Atlanta. You just can't figure that out.
robertoaribas says
Now where do you get that from my comment? So, you think Detroit is a good investment. I think I'd wait for the bankruptcy before I made that decision.
Follow
Befriend (23)
55 threads
3,836 comments
Scottsdale, AZ
robertoaribas's website
Nobody care what you think David. You are the stupidest person on this website. And as clearly stated, I'm not giving an opinion on Detroit. Only you are so stupid as to read that, and turn it into " Roberto thinks Detroit is a good investment"
Follow
Befriend (2)
8 threads
1,138 comments
Seattle, WA
David Losh's website
Premium
robertoaribas says
You started with this which has nothing to do with my comment.
David Losh says
So I responded here, with this, and you are upset? about what?
robertoaribas says
Professor, I think it was established long ago that people here, and everywhere are tired of hearing you glory story.
You are a one note comment.
You sold, you bought, you have rental income, and are worth a million dollars. Got it, thanks.
Follow
Befriend
34 threads
2,116 comments
Investing in Detroit is an Oxymoron. To sum it up nicely, Detroit at its peak was around 2 million and as of now is around 700,000. So in other words there's about 3X's the amount of available infrastructure and housing for the population. So that's why houses are a few hundred bucks there in some cases: There's zero incentive to buy a house from someone else when there's literally thousands more that are either vacant, owned by the city, or very very cheap.
Follow
Befriend
2 comments
well me and a couple hundred investors are doing well some are even investing in corktown where all the students stay guaranteed rent and the houses are cheap they are already rehabed and before you buy them the windows are boarded up and they have the hot water tanks and furnaces in a warehouse so when you purchase it put in there for free me and the guys from the UK and Australia are pretty happy and a guy from China is gonna be buying with us to from Jessica Anthony