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Good argument to not have kids. Are they worth 200K?

By RentingForHalfTheCost   Follow   Thu, 19 Apr 2012, 8:34am   4,629 views   64 comments
In San Mateo CA 94404   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

http://economy.money.cnn.com/2012/04/19/living-near-good-schools-will-cost-an-extra-200k/?iid=HP_LN

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1. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,539 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

   25   11:45am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   David9 says I'm sure children are price less too you. Not everyone on the planet shares this view point. Children...the 18-25 year STD! For some reason, it is largely unsurprising that a forum inhabited mostly by housing bears also has a lot of people that don't have kids.

2. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   26   12:40pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   bmwman91 says Children...the 18-25 year STD! And way more expensive too.

3. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

   27   12:44pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   bmwman91 says Children...the 18-25 year STD! LOL. I was thinking about this at lunch. I have two very tame examples: 1.) My boss and I have discussed how in the past we were chastised, probably discrimintated against, and generally looked down upon because 'no bells ever went off' and we never had children. We are for the most part happy with our lives now. 2.) A younger couple who are friends, a former boss and his wife a Jewish Princess had a baby and bought a house in 2008. The father has confided in me how trapped he is. The Jewish Princess Mother has had nervous breakdowns because 'he is so helpless' Yes, this hurts me because they are my friends. Some of us are just not hard wired for it.

4. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   28   12:52pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   bmwman91 says This is true. Having kids, or not having them, is an intensely personal choice. Both are frought with big compromises. Both can be rationalized and justified. In the end, neither choice is "right or wrong" in an absolute sense, but only with respect to the individuals involved. Bringing children into this world should be considered an act of cruelty.

5. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

   29   1:02pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Bringing children into this world should be considered an act of cruelty. I know of another couple, a man and a woman, who did live in the North East and now reside in the South who have said exactly that. Another viewpoint of theirs is it should be mandatory, like one of their bulldogs, to go through some evaluation as to whether they are fit parents, not just 'ploop them out' and hope for the best. But they also realize this does not fit in a democracy.

6. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,539 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

   30   1:05pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Bringing children into this world should be considered an act of cruelty. I sort of agree. It isn't so much that I don't think that I would derive some sort of personal enjoyment form having them, but that the world looks like it is precariously perched on the edge of a major upheaval. If we were to sink into another great depression with soup lines and no ability to provide sufficient food & shelter, it would really tear me up to have to see my kids going to bed hungry and worried. My mom once told me that, "having kids is your personal affirmation that the world will be a good place." Well.....I try not to give-in to cynicism and negativity, but I genuinely feel that we are rapidly approaching an inflection point in our civilization where the "reset button" is about to be pressed. Unfortunately, my fiancee and I will be a wee bit too old to have kids after that. We have 3-5 years as it is before kids sort of stop becoming an option. Thankfully, we are both in agreement about the kids issue!

7. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,539 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

   31   1:06pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   David9 says go through some evaluation as to whether they are fit parents In theory, it might be a good idea. However, given our current government, I wouldn't trust them to write a manual on how to wipe your own ass...you'd have to wait 3 hours, spend $40 registering, and in the end, you would wind up with poop in your left nostril.

8. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

   32   1:10pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bmwman91 says David9 says go through some evaluation as to whether they are fit parents In theory, it might be a good idea. However, given our current government, I wouldn't trust them to write a manual on how to wipe your own ass...you'd have to wait 3 hours, spend $40 registering, and in the end, you would wind up with poop in your left nostril. LOL! I just had to agree. Not to mention I don't think we have the funding for it. :-(

9. Mark D Follow Befriend 63 threads 485 comments Simi Valley, CA

   33   1:14pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   IMO, marriage and kids are high-risk, low-yield investments. a stock that has 50% chance of going down is a stock not worth owning.

10. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,539 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    34   1:17pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Mark D says marriage and kids are high-risk, low-yield investments. a stock that has 50% chance of going down is a stock not worth owning. On paper, sure. There are intangibles that, for some, justify it. In the end, we are all still human, and the point of everything we do is to attain happiness. It is hard to quantify that (or impossible). People run into trouble when they blindly make huge choices in life because of social dogmas that promise happiness, and then feel unhappy (when they think that they are supposed to be happy). Happiness requires thought and careful consideration of one's actions, and a good helping of self-honesty (seeing through your own BS). It's easier said than done, though.

11. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    35   1:21pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bmwman91 says the world looks like it is precariously perched on the edge of a major upheaval. If we were to sink into another great depression with soup lines and no ability to provide sufficient food & shelter, it would really tear me up to have to see my kids going to bed hungry and worried. My mom once told me that, "having kids is your personal affirmation that the world will be a good place." Well.....I try not to give-in to cynicism and negativity, but I genuinely feel that we are rapidly approaching an inflection point in our civilization where the "reset button" is about to be pressed. Don't forget fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population.

12. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    36   1:23pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Mark D says IMO, marriage and kids are high-risk, low-yield investments. a stock that has 50% chance of going down is a stock not worth owning. Well put! Especially if you're a guy and she can take 50% of the stuff you own. How about instead of gay-marriage we just abolish ALL marriage? That sounds like the most sensible thing to do.

13. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    37   1:25pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Don't forget fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population. Yes, those are huge worries I have for my children's future.

14. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    38   1:25pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Don't forget fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population. Not that those are not valid concerns, but shouldn't it be obvious now the banks, billionaires, and investors don't care about anyone's family? With or without children, btw.

15. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    39   1:28pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   David9 says Not that those are not valid concerns, but shouldn't it be obvious now the banks, billionaires, and investors don't care about anyone's family? When did banks, billionaires, and investors ever care about anything but the bottom line? Agree. Another good reason to not have children.

16. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    40   1:29pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   leoj707 says Yes, those are huge worries I have for my children's future. Then isn't it a bit irresponsible to have them? We have birth-control and abortion. Use them.

17. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    41   1:34pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says When did banks, billionaires, and investors ever care about anything but the bottom line? Agree. Woo Hoo! Glad somebody got it. (or already knew) Sad there are so many poorly nourished under loved kids walking around. Lately, I have seen children under 10 completely unescorted walking about, amazing to me anyway.

18. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 204 threads 4,411 comments Davis, CA

    42   1:38pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   I fully encourage other people not to procreate. Leaves more room for my descendants, who will be well worth it. Is there a charity that offers sterilization with a signing bonus? I'd be happy to contribute.

19. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,539 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    43   1:40pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   David9 says Sad there are so many poorly nourished under loved kids walking around. Oh man....this brings back a funny memory. Back in college, some of my friends were having a discussion about having kids. They came to the conclusion that it is immoral to have your own kids in our society because there are so many unwanted or uncared-for children out there as it is (you should adopt instead). Well, my buddy Dan's GF was in the other room, and on her period (and she was one of the unlucky ones whose hormones got REALLY out of what at that time). She came bursting out of that room, crying, screaming "well why are we even together then?!?!?!?" My buddy Rob couldn't stifle his snickering, and man, her face got RED and she stormed off. Then a day or so later she apologized for being crazy. She didn't want kids then, and still isn't there (we all keep in contact). I guess it was just "one of those periods" or something.

20. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,539 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    44   1:41pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Vicente says Is there a charity that offers sterilization with a signing bonus? I'd be happy to contribute. Dude, this is my plan to fix America when I am president. $10k, cash, for anyone on welfare that goes in for voluntary sterilization. Inmates that are serving time for non-violent crimes are also eligible. The benefits won't arrive for 12-20 years, but they surely will.

21. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    45   1:44pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says leoj707 says Yes, those are huge worries I have for my children's future. Then isn't it a bit irresponsible to have them? We have birth-control and abortion. Use them. Perhaps, but we cannot know the future and we can't live our lives on "what ifs" and "maybes". What is irresponsible is to have kids then ignore that fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population are issues that they will have to confront in their lives. Also, it is irresponsible to leave breading it to only the irresponsible. That makes the worries about the future all that more realistic.

22. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    46   1:44pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bmwman91 says Dude, this is my plan to fix America when I am president. $10k, cash, for anyone on welfare that goes in for voluntary sterilization. Inmates that are serving time for non-violent crimes are also eligible. The benefits won't arrive for 12-20 years, but they surely will. That is actually a good plan. Glad I brought back the funny memory.

23. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    47   1:48pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bmwman91 says $10k, cash, for anyone on welfare that goes in for voluntary sterilization. Inmates that are serving time for non-violent crimes are also eligible. Why stop at welfare and non-violent criminals? It should be an open program. You could also probably still be effective with it being a lot less; perhaps about the same price as an iPad.

24. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    48   1:52pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   leoj707 says Perhaps, but we cannot know the future and we can't live our lives on "what ifs" and "maybes". Yes we can. 100 years from now all of us will be dead. In the long run, everyone dies. That alone should be reason enough to not have children.

25. rooemoore Follow Befriend 41 threads 907 comments Ross, CA

    49   1:53pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   a lot of fucking worry warts on this site. it reminds me of the "duck and cover days". Maybe Patrick should have a new logo:

26. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    50   1:58pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bmwman91 says They came to the conclusion that it is immoral to have your own kids in our society because there are so many unwanted or uncared-for children out there as it is (you should adopt instead). Well, there is a big difference between unwanted and improperly cared for. The idea that there are all these kids that need adopting is a bit of a myth. People want healthy kids, there are very few kids that are unwanted that do not have serious issues. The demand for healthy adoptable children, especially babies, far outstrips the supply. With westerners willing to drop $30-40k on a third world adoption the results are predictable: http://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/adoption/GuatemalaNews.html Adoptions from third world countries are actually often a very immoral choice. Believe it or not even the poor love and want to keep their health babies. The most moral adoptions are foster-to-adopt programs.

27. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    51   1:58pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   rowemoore says a lot of f*cking worry warts on this site. Um, maybe it's because we have been screwed over before and we wish to consciously avoid such behavior and wrong choices.

28. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    52   1:59pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   rowemoore says Maybe Patrick should have a new logo: Why bother, the water will just get spilled anyway.

29. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    53   2:03pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says That alone should be reason enough to not have children. Not have kids because they are going to die? Why do you continue to choose to live your life?

30. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    54   2:05pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   leoj707 says Why do you continue to choose to live your life? I've been asking myself that question a lot lately.

31. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    55   2:16pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   rowemoore says I understand your miserable LOL, actually I am not, but if that is your perception that is ok, after all, you are just a blog stranger on the internet.,

32. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    56   2:17pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says leoj707 says Why do you continue to choose to live your life? I've been asking myself that question a lot lately. Well, OK then your comments make more sense. Death, pain, suffering are all part of life. I accept that and as much as it may add additional pain to my life I accept that my children are going to have to experience them as well. In spite of this life is a beautiful thing… Love, happiness, hope are all also a part of life. Humans could build a better world that limits suffering and increases joy. We seem to be currently choosing to go another route. Hopefully the people that I add to the mix help to nudge humanity in a better direction.

33. Mark D Follow Befriend 63 threads 485 comments Simi Valley, CA

    57   2:20pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   LOL @ the buyer remorse in this thread.

34. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    58   2:24pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   leoj707 says Well, OK then your comments make more sense. What do you mean by that?

35. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    59   2:33pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says What do you mean by that? I mean that it is unsurprising that a person who is questioning whether they should choose to go on living would reason that the inevitability of death is the reason new life should not start.

36. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 204 threads 4,411 comments Davis, CA

    60   2:39pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   bmwman91 says $10k, cash, for anyone on welfare that goes in for voluntary sterilization. Inmates that are serving time for non-violent crimes are also eligible. The benefits won't arrive for 12-20 years, but they surely will. Why be so specific? This is America, we are supposed to be egalitarian. Offer it to anyone. If you are going to discriminate IMO you'd have to include huge bonus for OctoMom or Kardashians, and particularly bigger fish like white collar criminals who cause much more damage than some pothead. But I don't see the point in that. You are a college kid who wants to make tuition and are sure you never want children? Fine, here's your money thanks for removing your contribution to the gene pool.

37. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    61   3:13pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   leoj707 says the inevitability of death is the reason new life should not start. It certainly isn't the only reason.

38. everything Follow Befriend (2) 3 threads 549 comments Madison, WI

    62   3:49pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Both kids and the girl to go along are kinda expensive all by themselves. They call it the two income trap.

39. clambo Follow Befriend (5) 1,070 comments Santa Cruz, CA

    63   3:55pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Kids bring intangible benefits to their parents if the kids turn out into nice adults. This of course it the hope of all parents. A guy has to be stable, successful, make a great living and be fearless in the face of divorce, financial ruin, and all the rest of it. It takes a certain kind of bravery that many no longer have. The several times I was about to marry some job change or other circumstance put the kibosh on it. I've even dated a couple of girls in Mexico who actually did NOT want children because they had been forced to care for a couple of very young siblings so they were done with "parenting". Generally it's rare there that an adult has no children. I would be asked "Why don't you have any?" often. As you age you'll meet many women who have kids already of various ages, and you can get into that milieu if you desire to. They're possibly going to be almost as loyal to you as their biological fathers if you are generous,etc. My friend worries constantly about his adult children, as does my older brother. He often says he must work forever because of his kids. Another friend of mine moved to a very undesireable state for a job simply so he could keep paying his adult children's tuition and grad school. He was actually well off enough to retire early. Those who do not have children will maybe say they are happy to have the money instead, but probably it's only a rationalization.

40. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    64   4:05pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   leoj707 says Love, happiness, hope are all also a part of life. For some people. Certainly not for everyone.

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