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Good argument to not have kids. Are they worth 200K?

By RentingForHalfTheCost   Follow   Thu, 19 Apr 2012, 8:34am   4,627 views   64 comments
In San Mateo CA 94404   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

http://economy.money.cnn.com/2012/04/19/living-near-good-schools-will-cost-an-extra-200k/?iid=HP_LN

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1. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   1   8:38am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I came to the same conclusion a long time ago, w/o the financial aspect of it.

2. tiny tina Follow Befriend 2 threads 175 comments

   2   8:43am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike (1)   Nope. They're worth way more.

3. rooemoore Follow Befriend 41 threads 906 comments Ross, CA

   3   8:45am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   You do get to sell the house someday, right? By that time the difference will probably be $300k.

4. PockyClipsNow Follow Befriend 19 threads 1,534 comments Los Angeles, CA

   4   9:52am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   ummmm we all know what this means the 'good schools' is a euphemism/PC correct way to state 'live away from wrong kind of minorities'. If the title said 'it cost 200k to live away from this race and this other race because they commit 90% of all crime' it would be racist. I really want to live in an area with BAD SCHOOL tests but low crime (to get low house price, im not having kids ever) I dont think this situ can exist!!!! can it?

5. tiny tina Follow Befriend 2 threads 175 comments

   5   9:56am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   PockyClipsNow says I really want to live in an area with BAD SCHOOL tests but low crime (to get low house price, im not having kids ever) I dont think this situ can exist!!!! can it? I think that's a good point. In the BA, the good school districts definitely have less crime than bad ones. So another way of asking the original question is, "is your own well-being worth $200k?"

6. SFace Follow Befriend (2) 61 threads 1,303 comments Premium

   6   10:10am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   tiny tina says I think that's a good point. In the BA, the good school districts definitely have less crime than bad ones. So another way of asking the original question is, "is your own well-being worth $200k?" The way I see it, if the decision affects me only, I can pretty much tolerate anything and can live in 50% of the bay area. But with a family of four, now my decisions affects 4 people, not one so my criteria is way more stringent and affect the lives of a lot more people. When it is all said and done, it comes down to the 5% of the bay area. Not suprisingly, they are also the same area everyone wants as well and bidding for. It's a pass thru cost anyway. The only incrental additioal cost of living in a premium area is the incrmental increase in property tax and interest, if any. and even those are tax deductable so not only are the increment not that great, it is tax subsidized. The extra incremental cost is a tremendous value that effects a family of say, four or five people. That is why the school premium is there and will continue to expand further. Private schools tuition has been rising way ahead the rate of inflation.

7. Hysteresis Follow Befriend (2) 14 threads 648 comments

   7   10:19am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (3)   tiny tina says Nope. They're worth way more. probably why you're poor.

8. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

   8   10:22am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   tiny tina says In the BA, the good school districts definitely have less crime than bad ones. I would not say definitely. There are many neighborhood that have low crime but really shitty schools. You do however pay a premium for the low crime, but not quite as much as the good school premium.

9. tiny tina Follow Befriend 2 threads 175 comments

   9   10:23am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Hysteresis says tiny tina says Nope. They're worth way more. probably why you're poor. Not sure where you got I'm poor. And doesn't this count as directly insulting another, violating Patrick's rules?

10. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    10   10:23am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   tiny tina says Nope. They're worth way more. Yep, they are worth way more.

11. tiny tina Follow Befriend 2 threads 175 comments

    11   10:26am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   leoj707 says I would not say definitely. There are many neighborhood that have low crime but really shitty schools. You do however pay a premium for the low crime, but not quite as much as the good school premium. Name one. It's possible, but the areas I can think of, EPA, parts of SC, many parts of SJ - they have pretty high crime compared to the better parts of the South Bay.

12. EBGuy Follow Befriend 4 threads 2,095 comments

    12   10:30am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   the incrmental increase in property tax and interest, if any. and even those are tax deductable As I pointed out a couple of days ago, the state of California had recently been arguing that school parcel taxes are NOT tax deductible. Will be interesting to see if they give it another try next year.

13. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    13   10:42am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   tiny tina says Name one. Well, I don't know much about SJ, but living in Oakland I can name several neighborhoods that have relatively low crime when compared to the nice school areas close by (Piedmont, Montclair): Cleveland Heights, Temescal, Adams Point, Lakeshore, Rockridge, etc. Some areas you might have a good elementary school, but poor middle and high schools.

14. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,535 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    14   10:47am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Even going to a school in a shitty area is no guarantee of failure. It is MORE up to the parents than the school, and even the environment. One of my closest friends went through the public schooling system in EPA (she's white). She saw kids get stabbed, doing hard drugs, all sorts of bad shit. Well, she attended the same private college that I did (and I went to Bellarmine...cue the gay jokes) and is now happily employed as an athletic trainer, married to a good guy and is all-around happy. She graduated HS and college with a near-poerfect GPA. Why? Her parents rode her ass and MADE her inform them of where she was and when at all times. I realize that this is not the norm for the EPA school district, but I guess being white and having parents that do their job is also abnormal there. She would have been successful no matter where she lived & went to school. That's the hard reality that many parents don't want to accept: their special little flower has no guarantee of success in life. Making more educational resources available to your kid CAN help their chances, but in the end, it is 100% on you as a parent. Period. No amount of money can replace proper parenting. Lots of kids at my college were from wealthy families that lived in top school districts...and the only test they could have passed was the final in "Joint Rolling 101." So again, money and success don't have the correlation that so many people seem to think.

15. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 203 threads 4,407 comments Davis, CA

    15   10:49am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   When you're on your deathbed I'm sure piles of money will be very heartwarming and eager to hold your hand.

16. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,535 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    16   10:49am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Hysteresis says i equate low intelligence with low income. sorry if the income part was wrong. LOL....burrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnned

17. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,535 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    17   10:51am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Vicente says When you're on your deathbed I'm sure piles of money will be very heartwarming and eager to hold your hand. This is true. Having kids, or not having them, is an intensely personal choice. Both are frought with big compromises. Both can be rationalized and justified. In the end, neither choice is "right or wrong" in an absolute sense, but only with respect to the individuals involved.

18. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    18   10:52am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Hysteresis says i equate low intelligence with low income. sorry if the income part was wrong. Yeah, what is tina some kind of Einstein? I equate the idea that intelligence and income are highly correlated with low intelligence.

19. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    19   10:55am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bmwman91 says This is true. Having kids, or not having them, is an intensely personal choice. Both are frought with big compromises. Both can be rationalized and justified. In the end, neither choice is "right or wrong" in an absolute sense, but only with respect to the individuals involved. Yeah, I agree that it is defiantly an individual thing. I would certainly not advocate that everyone should have kids. Hell, even a lot of people that want them should probably not have them. Funny thing with the compromises though. With kids I can't do many of the things that I used to love, but I find that I don't really miss them.

20. Hysteresis Follow Befriend (2) 14 threads 648 comments

    20   10:56am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   leoj707 says I equate the idea that intelligence and income are correlated with low intelligence. well that would be dumb. although not surprising coming from you. i fear you won't understand the chart below, but others will grasp its meaning

21. tiny tina Follow Befriend 2 threads 175 comments

    21   11:01am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bmwman91 says Hysteresis says i equate low intelligence with low income. sorry if the income part was wrong. LOL....burrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnned Ah, I see we've moved onto 3rd grade and started name calling. Ok. Good job guys.

22. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,535 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    22   11:11am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   tiny tina says Ah, I see we've moved onto 3rd grade and started name calling. Ok. Good job guys. Oh please. I think that those sentences and vocabulary are more like 6th grade, at least.

23. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    23   11:13am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Hysteresis says i fear you won't understand the chart below, but others will grasp its meaning I equate the idea that level of education is a good way of determining intelligence with low intelligence. I guess you think that Bill Gates is an idiot.

24. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    24   11:15am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   tiny tina says Hysteresis says tiny tina says Nope. They're worth way more. probably why you're poor. Not sure where you got I'm poor. And doesn't this count as directly insulting another, violating Patrick's rules? I'm sure children are price less too you. Not everyone on the planet shares this view point.

25. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,535 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    25   11:45am Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   David9 says I'm sure children are price less too you. Not everyone on the planet shares this view point. Children...the 18-25 year STD! For some reason, it is largely unsurprising that a forum inhabited mostly by housing bears also has a lot of people that don't have kids.

26. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    26   12:40pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   bmwman91 says Children...the 18-25 year STD! And way more expensive too.

27. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    27   12:44pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   bmwman91 says Children...the 18-25 year STD! LOL. I was thinking about this at lunch. I have two very tame examples: 1.) My boss and I have discussed how in the past we were chastised, probably discrimintated against, and generally looked down upon because 'no bells ever went off' and we never had children. We are for the most part happy with our lives now. 2.) A younger couple who are friends, a former boss and his wife a Jewish Princess had a baby and bought a house in 2008. The father has confided in me how trapped he is. The Jewish Princess Mother has had nervous breakdowns because 'he is so helpless' Yes, this hurts me because they are my friends. Some of us are just not hard wired for it.

28. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    28   12:52pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   bmwman91 says This is true. Having kids, or not having them, is an intensely personal choice. Both are frought with big compromises. Both can be rationalized and justified. In the end, neither choice is "right or wrong" in an absolute sense, but only with respect to the individuals involved. Bringing children into this world should be considered an act of cruelty.

29. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    29   1:02pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Bringing children into this world should be considered an act of cruelty. I know of another couple, a man and a woman, who did live in the North East and now reside in the South who have said exactly that. Another viewpoint of theirs is it should be mandatory, like one of their bulldogs, to go through some evaluation as to whether they are fit parents, not just 'ploop them out' and hope for the best. But they also realize this does not fit in a democracy.

30. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,535 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    30   1:05pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Bringing children into this world should be considered an act of cruelty. I sort of agree. It isn't so much that I don't think that I would derive some sort of personal enjoyment form having them, but that the world looks like it is precariously perched on the edge of a major upheaval. If we were to sink into another great depression with soup lines and no ability to provide sufficient food & shelter, it would really tear me up to have to see my kids going to bed hungry and worried. My mom once told me that, "having kids is your personal affirmation that the world will be a good place." Well.....I try not to give-in to cynicism and negativity, but I genuinely feel that we are rapidly approaching an inflection point in our civilization where the "reset button" is about to be pressed. Unfortunately, my fiancee and I will be a wee bit too old to have kids after that. We have 3-5 years as it is before kids sort of stop becoming an option. Thankfully, we are both in agreement about the kids issue!

31. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,535 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    31   1:06pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   David9 says go through some evaluation as to whether they are fit parents In theory, it might be a good idea. However, given our current government, I wouldn't trust them to write a manual on how to wipe your own ass...you'd have to wait 3 hours, spend $40 registering, and in the end, you would wind up with poop in your left nostril.

32. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    32   1:10pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bmwman91 says David9 says go through some evaluation as to whether they are fit parents In theory, it might be a good idea. However, given our current government, I wouldn't trust them to write a manual on how to wipe your own ass...you'd have to wait 3 hours, spend $40 registering, and in the end, you would wind up with poop in your left nostril. LOL! I just had to agree. Not to mention I don't think we have the funding for it. :-(

33. Mark D Follow Befriend 63 threads 481 comments Simi Valley, CA

    33   1:14pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   IMO, marriage and kids are high-risk, low-yield investments. a stock that has 50% chance of going down is a stock not worth owning.

34. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,535 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    34   1:17pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Mark D says marriage and kids are high-risk, low-yield investments. a stock that has 50% chance of going down is a stock not worth owning. On paper, sure. There are intangibles that, for some, justify it. In the end, we are all still human, and the point of everything we do is to attain happiness. It is hard to quantify that (or impossible). People run into trouble when they blindly make huge choices in life because of social dogmas that promise happiness, and then feel unhappy (when they think that they are supposed to be happy). Happiness requires thought and careful consideration of one's actions, and a good helping of self-honesty (seeing through your own BS). It's easier said than done, though.

35. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    35   1:21pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bmwman91 says the world looks like it is precariously perched on the edge of a major upheaval. If we were to sink into another great depression with soup lines and no ability to provide sufficient food & shelter, it would really tear me up to have to see my kids going to bed hungry and worried. My mom once told me that, "having kids is your personal affirmation that the world will be a good place." Well.....I try not to give-in to cynicism and negativity, but I genuinely feel that we are rapidly approaching an inflection point in our civilization where the "reset button" is about to be pressed. Don't forget fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population.

36. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    36   1:23pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Mark D says IMO, marriage and kids are high-risk, low-yield investments. a stock that has 50% chance of going down is a stock not worth owning. Well put! Especially if you're a guy and she can take 50% of the stuff you own. How about instead of gay-marriage we just abolish ALL marriage? That sounds like the most sensible thing to do.

37. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    37   1:25pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Don't forget fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population. Yes, those are huge worries I have for my children's future.

38. David9 Follow Befriend (3) 28 threads 747 comments Tarzana, CA

    38   1:25pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Don't forget fossil fuel depletion, global warming, and over-population. Not that those are not valid concerns, but shouldn't it be obvious now the banks, billionaires, and investors don't care about anyone's family? With or without children, btw.

39. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    39   1:28pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   David9 says Not that those are not valid concerns, but shouldn't it be obvious now the banks, billionaires, and investors don't care about anyone's family? When did banks, billionaires, and investors ever care about anything but the bottom line? Agree. Another good reason to not have children.

40. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    40   1:29pm Thu 19 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   leoj707 says Yes, those are huge worries I have for my children's future. Then isn't it a bit irresponsible to have them? We have birth-control and abortion. Use them.

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