These guys are doing it right
By marcus Follow Mon, 30 Apr 2012, 7:47pm 1,625 views 14 comments
In Glendale CA 91206
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More anti-atheist bigotry from Marcus. What a surprise.
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What would be the point if we all found the exact same things to be amusing.
It's abstract, what can I tell you.
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am I the only one that finds the useage of the two primary rival gang colors in this a little bit funny?
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Doing it right?
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Sorry:
I dont get the language (slang) Marcus. I dont speak it. I don't follow it. I don't believe it. It's not abstract to me.
:(
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I didn't mean that the slang was abstract. I meant that this is like an abstraction of an argument I have had with a certain gnostic atheist a couple of times on this forum. The difference being we take ourselves so seriously, and don't end on a positive note, but I don't know that we really say much more than what's said between those two.
In the exchange above, the blue guy is the atheist, but you might note that even though he starts off saying there is no God, he isn't a gnostic atheist. Because later he says respect my views and I'll respect yours. This is not the position of the gnostic atheist, which is why arguing with a gnostic atheist is like arguing choice versus abortion with someone who claims to somehow know for sure that aborting a zygote is murdering a human.
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marcus says
Correction: many gnostic atheists probably are wise enough and humble enough, that even if they claim certainty that there is no god by any definition, they still have some humility, at least enough to take a live and let live attitude, and not the know it all anti religious zealotry attitude that the others take.
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Gnostic atheists?
Wasn't Gnosticism a religious sect that broke off from Christianity in the 2nd or 3rd century? Is it even possible to have a Gnostic atheist?
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I got this off of reddit recently. I don't know that it's the generally accepted way of viewing it, but for discussion purposes it's useful.
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wthrfrk80 says
Yes, but apparently like so many words in English, the word gnostic is used in multiple ways. I think the gnostics claimed knowledge other than first hand or second hand experience? It's easy to find good idscussions of the gnostic gospels. Here's one.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f19k5/gnostic_gospels/
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<sarcasm>Because labels, not philosophies, are what's important.</sarcasm>
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I don't think labels are especially important, but they might help avoid certain unnecessary or redundant parts of discussion.
Personally I don't find myself on that chart. I guess if I had to place myself on the chart,....or if others did, they would probably say I'm an agnostic theist. But I find this limiting, because I don't believe in a God as a being or have a personal relationship it/him/her, or believe in an afterlife per se.
If I were to say that I am an agnostic but that I have spirituality in my life, I understand that the spirituality part sounds kind of trite. But I know there are many people who have a similar perspective.
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marcus says
Only if they clarify complex philosophies, which this doesn't. Plus it uses an arbitrary and not widely accepted use of terms.
Since terms like atheists and agnostics have been used in many conflicting ways over the past few hundred years, it makes sense to clarify their modern meanings, not how they were used by some arbitrary people during some arbitrary time.
In the modern sense, the standard nomenclature is as follows.
1. Theist - believes in some kind of god or gods.
2. Monotheist - believes in one and only one god.
3. Polytheist - believes in multiple gods or at least the possibility of multiple gods.
4. Self-Agnostic - does not believe or disbelieves in a god or gods. Does not make any statement to defend.
4. Weak Agnostic - believes that no one can know whether or not there is a god or gods until he/she has died.
5. Strong Agnostic - believes that no one can know whether or not there is a god of gods even after death because there is no way of telling if an entity is a god under any circumstances.
6. Weak Atheist - disbelieves in all gods ever proposed by mankind.
7. Strong Atheist - disbelieves in the concept of god itself.
8. Mystic - believes in supernatural phenomenon such as gods, magic, souls, spirits, etc.
9. Naturalist - believes that all of existence is natural, not supernatural.
10. Subjectivist - believes that truth is subjective.
11. Objectionist - believes that opinions are subjective, truth is objective.
12. Rationalist - believes that nature follows rational laws that can be understood, at least in principle, although not necessarily by a human brain.
As far as the strength (requirements for evidence) of the various theological positions, they are
1. Self-Agnostic is the weakest position, saying nothing, and requiring no evidence.
2. Weak Agnostic / Weak Atheist
3. Strong Agnostic / Strong Atheist / Theist
4. Polytheist
5. Monotheist
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Coming up with labels for non-believers seems to be something that only very weird people do. Usually it's religious people trying to argue with non-believers (they almost always start with silly labels like "Atheist", which is a pretty narrow segment of non-believers, since it only refers to deities. There's plenty of religious bullshit that has nothing to do with deities).
Arguing with religious people is the biggest waste of time outside of arguing with people about economics.