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rising rents have flipped the rent vs. buy economics

By toothfairy   Follow   Tue, 15 May 2012, 10:06am   4,028 views   44 comments
In Oakland CA 94610   Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

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1. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   5   11:31am Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says READ the data. Rental rates are falling no matter how you attempt to twist it. This has got to be a joke. What data would you like me to read that contradicts the above graph? I really don't know what else to say. YOU linked an article that says national rents are up 4.4%. I copied and posted it. There's no room for interpretation, it's crystal clear. Yet you continue to insist it says all rents are down. WTF?

2. RentingForHalfTheCost Follow Befriend (8) 38 threads 1,996 comments Pleasanton, CA Premium

   6   11:39am Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected   dublin hillz says Yes, it is inevitable that rising rents would push people off the fence to buy. While rents for the most part were stable from 2005-2009, the landlords, especially apartment complexes could not leave well enough alone. The only pushing that is going on is people finally getting pushed out of their homes after not paying the mortgage for years. Further house price drops will only help lower rental rates. All these investors fighting for the same renters. I got a few investor friends that had high hopes of how much they could rent. Well, until they drop down their places still sit empty. They don't want to drop because of fear of getting crappy tenants. Yah, things are beautiful out there in the landlord world. Liars all around.

3. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   7   11:40am Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says WRONG again. The data shows rental rates are down and FALLING. How many times are you going to deny and lie about it? Yes you keep repeating that, but you don't explain it, cut and paste it, link it, or cite any numbers whatsoever. It's just a parrot saying "Down and falling! Down and falling! Down and falling!!" Lets start with this. YOUR ARTICLE says national rents are up YoY by 4.4%. Look: Why is this wrong?

4. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   8   11:42am Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RentingForHalfTheCost says Liars all around. Take a look at your good friend Dan. Liars on both sides no?

5. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   9   11:44am Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says You continue to cite some reference from elsewhere. NOT the data I posted. But you and your alterego Tina is pretty good at ducking and weaving from the truth about falling rental rates and housing prices. This conversation is fucking insane. THIS: Was copied from THIS: DanWI says http://newsroom.transunion.com/MediaLibraries/TransUnion/Documents/graphics/1Q12/Q1-2012_SolutionsReport.pdf

6. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   10   11:51am Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says READ the article! I read the article. It says nationwide prices are up 4.4%. Are you disputing this? Where's Northern California? Where's Seattle? Where's Portland? Where's Boston?

7. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   11   12:02pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says READ THE ARTICLE. Rents DOWN in LA. So fucking what? You called me a liar for quoting YOUR ARTICLE showing rents are up nationwide 4.4%. Are you going to retract that now?

8. dublin hillz Follow Befriend 10 threads 763 comments Dublin, CA

   12   12:05pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RentingForHalfTheCost says dublin hillz says Yes, it is inevitable that rising rents would push people off the fence to buy. While rents for the most part were stable from 2005-2009, the landlords, especially apartment complexes could not leave well enough alone. The only pushing that is going on is people finally getting pushed out of their homes after not paying the mortgage for years. Further house price drops will only help lower rental rates. All these investors fighting for the same renters. I got a few investor friends that had high hopes of how much they could rent. Well, until they drop down their places still sit empty. They don't want to drop because of fear of getting crappy tenants. Yah, things are beautiful out there in the landlord world. Liars all around. As far as apartment complexes go, I doubt that they ever did better than they are doing now, especially Archstone.

9. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   13   12:09pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says WRONG again. Rents are DOWN when Boston, NYC and Philly are included. Nice try. Does your own article say national rents are up 4.4%? Yes or no?

10. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    14   12:13pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   I'm sorry, that was a yes or no question. Does your own article say national rents are up 4.4%? Yes or no?

11. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    15   12:22pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says Why are you all of a sudden sorry for misrepresenting the truth about housing prices and rental rates? I'm not representing anything. I'm asking you a yes or no question. Does your own article say national rents are up 4.4%? Yes or no?

12. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    16   12:24pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says iwog says I'm not representing anything. Sure you are. That's what you do here. Rental rates are falling and housing prices continue to crater. Deal with it. Why are you running away? Just answer my perfectly fair question. There are no assertions in this post. None. Does your own article say national rents are up 4.4%? Yes or no?

13. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    17   12:26pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says Nobody is going anywhere but you sure are doing a whole lot of ducking, weaving and misrepresenting. It's a question. Why are you scared of answering? Does your own article say national rents are up 4.4%? Yes or no?

14. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    18   12:29pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says How many times are you going to misrepresent the same question? The article shows falling rental rates. ROFLOL......how do you misrepresent a question???? Are you saying the question has a false premise? The question doesn't have ANY premise. Does your own article say national rents are up 4.4%? Yes or no?

15. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    19   12:32pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanWI says The article says rental rates are DOWN. Here's a quote from your article. It's a DIRECT copy and paste from your link: A new TransUnion rental screening solutions report found that the average rent for the nation increased 4.4% from $829 in the first quarter of 2011 to $865 in the first quarter of 2012.

16. joshuatrio Follow Befriend 41 threads 703 comments Monterey, CA

    20   12:32pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ahhhh.. internet arguing at it's finest.

17. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    21   12:33pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   joshuatrio says Ahhhh.. internet arguing at it's finest. This is a joke. It's actually a demonstration on delusional psychology and has nothing to do with real estate. It's fascinating for that reason.

18. DukeLaw Follow Befriend 3 threads 73 comments

    22   1:03pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Seriously, do you know how to read?? Contrary to the national data, six of those markets experienced declines in rental prices between Q1 2011 and Q1 2012. Which part of "contrary" do you not understand. Overall the market has gone up 4.4% with declines in the 6 markets you noted (LA, Denver, DC, Chicago, Houston and Vegas).

19. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    23   1:05pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   DanInSeattle says Which part of "falling" do you not understand?

20. bubblesitter Follow Befriend (5) 10 threads 2,329 comments

    24   1:05pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   joshuatrio says Ahhhh.. internet arguing at it's finest. Right. I am really enjoying. :)

21. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    25   1:05pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   bubblesitter says Right. I am really enjoying. :) You shouldn't be. He's on your side.

22. bubblesitter Follow Befriend (5) 10 threads 2,329 comments

    26   1:06pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   iwog says bubblesitter says Right. I am really enjoying. :) You shouldn't be. He's on your side. No,seriously. I am enjoying the debate without taking any sides. :)

23. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    27   1:07pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   bubblesitter says No,seriously. I am enjoying the debate without taking any sides. :) OMG, you call this a debate???

24. bmwman91 Follow Befriend (7) 37 threads 1,525 comments Mountain View, CA bmwman91's website Premium

    28   1:46pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Caveat for thread title: "...in some areas."

25. joshuatrio Follow Befriend 41 threads 703 comments Monterey, CA

    29   2:10pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   iwog says OMG, you call this a debate??? Iwog - calm down. You've gotten grumpier as you've aged. I remember your arguments (back on the old forum) - they were usually language free, and much more pleasant to read. It now seems that any troll has a shot of trolling you. And that you'll argue with a wall.. Just my observation.

26. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    30   2:13pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   joshuatrio says Iwog - calm down. You've gotten grumpier as you've aged. I remember your arguments (back on the old forum) - they were usually language free, and much more pleasant to read. Language free?!? What did I use, smoke signals? ; )

27. bubblesitter Follow Befriend (5) 10 threads 2,329 comments

    31   2:32pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says joshuatrio says Iwog - calm down. You've gotten grumpier as you've aged. I remember your arguments (back on the old forum) - they were usually language free, and much more pleasant to read. Language free?!? What did I use, smoke signals? ; ) Now I am putting debate aside and enjoying your comments. :)

28. joshuatrio Follow Befriend 41 threads 703 comments Monterey, CA

    32   2:39pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Language free?!? What did I use, smoke signals? ; ) binary.

29. BoomAndBustCycle Follow Befriend 28 threads 351 comments

    33   2:46pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Are you going to retract that now? Talking to DanInSeattle is probably exactly what it's like for Obama trying to negotiate and get anything accomplished with the Republican run congress. It's futile. His goal isn't to come to a compromise or to prove a point based on empirical data and debate. He just doesn't want to be proven wrong, and would like to spread propaganda, so he will deny anything that contradicts his beliefs, while constantly presenting straw man arguments as evidence.

30. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,753 comments

    34   3:40pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)   Wow, just wow... I think you guys need to pass reading comprehension tests before you are allowed near your keyboards!!! READ THE ARTICLE!!!! The article said on AVERAGE rents were up 4.4% but if you read closer, there were some cities that skewed the AVERAGE!!! If you tally the individual major cities, you would have seen that 6 out of 10 were DOWN!!! That's 60% and by my math, a MAJORITY!! So overall, per the article, Rents are DOWN!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, I just went and used the calculator (what a concept) and when you average the ten major cities listed across the top in the article, the average is -1.06% I wonder where that +4.4% actual came from???

31. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    35   6:16pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Call it Crazy says If you tally the individual major cities, you would have seen that 6 out of 10 were DOWN!!! That's 60% and by my math, a MAJORITY!! So overall, per the article, Rents are DOWN!!!!!!!!!!! You should have read my point on this issue. Where's San Francisco? Where's San Jose? Where's Seattle? Portland? Boston? For some reason any city with a sizable tech industry, the very industry that has recovered significantly in the last few years, was LEFT OUT. If you're wondering where the 4.4% came from, it's obviously those places.

32. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,753 comments

    36   6:59pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)   iwog says You should have read my point on this issue. Where's San Francisco? Where's San Jose? Where's Seattle? Portland? Boston? For some reason any city with a sizable tech industry, the very industry that has recovered significantly in the last few years, was LEFT OUT. If you're wondering where the 4.4% came from, it's obviously those places. Oh My, they left out all those "booming" cities and all they pulled out was 4.4%... maybe if they left off the other 60% on the down cities, they could have gotten it up over 10%.....

33. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    37   7:13pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Call it Crazy says Oh My, they left out all those "booming" cities and all they pulled out was 4.4%... maybe if they left off the other 60% on the down cities, they could have gotten it up over 10%..... I'm not sure I understand your point. The takeaway is that rents are rising. I don't know why they left out the Bay Area but included San Diego. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

34. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,753 comments

    38   7:34pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)   iwog says I'm not sure I understand your point. The takeaway is that rents are rising. My point is, percentage numbers don't tell the whole story. We need the data to see how the 4.4% came to be. A few good cities could have skewed the results to the positive, while a bunch of bad cities could have been masked.. The end percentage doesn't clarify the big picture. It could be a false number. An example, of the 10 cities listed in the article, 6 were down... overall, that's showing a downward trend of -1%. But somewhere in their calculations they found"up" cities to get the report to the +4.4..... how???? Here is another way percentages are "spun".. Example #1: Say you sold wigits and last week you sold one wigit but this week you sold two wigits. Guess what, sales are up 100%, sales are booming.... Example #2: Last week you sold 99 wigits and this week you sold 100 wigits. Sales are up 1%, big deal. In one case, sales are up 100% in the other case, sales are up 1%... which "sounds" better? But guess what, in both cases, you only sold one more wigit.... So, my point, percentages don't tell the true and whole story without supporting data!! The city by city data they did show in the article showed rents going down.

35. robertoaribas Follow Befriend (23) 55 threads 3,765 comments Scottsdale, AZ robertoaribas's website

    39   8:28pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I don't think a "national rental price" is a very meaningful number. I mean, maybe if everywhere else gets more expensive, people will move to the cheaper cities or something, but overall, that kind of data is remarkable useless. You need market specific data to make decisions. In phoenix, the year over year trend for rents is flat, however, vacancy rates are dropping, and promotional offers are largely drying up. I don't rent out my properties 'year over year' I rent them right now, and right now, I'm getting more calls than I used to for advertisements... It just feels a little firmer than before, and if that trend continues, I wouldn't be surprised by small rental increases in the next year. I don't generally raise my rents on tenants, but when rent increases, they don't move out, so vacancy rates drop to near zero.

36. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,753 comments

    40   8:36pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)   robertoaribas says I don't think a "national rental price" is a very meaningful number. I mean, maybe if everywhere else gets more expensive, people will move to the cheaper cities or something, but overall, that kind of data is remarkable useless. You need market specific data to make decisions. Exactly!! Every market is "local"... Unfortunately, Iwog always wants to use his 'hood as the basis for his "national" statements... But, if you open your eyes to the "big" picture across many areas, the trends in general are moving down....

37. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    41   8:43pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Call it Crazy says Exactly!! Every market is "local"... Unfortunately, Iwog always wants to use his 'hood as the basis for his "national" statements... Yeah except I don't, which is why I keep bringing up national numbers while you keep bringing up specific cities named in that study. My hood is probably about average and 4.4% from last year is about right.

38. getaroom guys Follow Befriend 1 comments

    42   9:17pm Tue 15 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog, dan... get a room, duke it out, make up, n get over it.

39. thomas.wong1986 Follow Befriend 16 threads 4,426 comments

    43   4:23am Wed 16 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   toothfairy says rising rents have flipped the rent vs. buy economics rising rents like rising home prices are job killers... why employ in the high costs SF Bay Area if both are going up and employers need to pay more when OTHER PLACES are much cheaper... wake up its a whole new world out there.

40. everything Follow Befriend (2) 3 threads 546 comments Madison, WI

    44   6:29am Wed 16 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Was in the bank again yesterday and young couple strolled in looking for an account, we get quite a few MI transplants here, and they moved to the highest rent part of our city, you can bet money they moved from a cheap rental with no jobs to a much higher rental cost with a decent job. In my area paying 80k for a home is comparable to renting. Still, I'll never buy again, I'll share a rental like I did when I was younger. It feels like 2001 all over again when everything that was on the market was junk/picked over.

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