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For Memorial Day.. do try to remember for who

By thomas.wong1986   Follow   Sun, 27 May 2012, 8:52pm   3,980 views   39 comments
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It is the Soldier, not the minister
Who has given us freedom of religion.

It is the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the Soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.

It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.

It is the Soldier, not the politician
Who has given us the right to vote.

It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Most Liked Comments

1. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,191 threads 6,158 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA

   1   4:38pm Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   What can they do? Military people are not allowed to protest or to disobey orders. They can be shot on the spot for refusal to obey. When the 1% orders them to kill or imprison us for using our freedom of speech, they must obey those orders.

2. thunderlips11 Follow Befriend (13) 52 threads 2,639 comments Premium

   2   9:50am Tue 29 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected   thomas.wong1986 says It is the Soldier, not the minister Who has given us freedom of religion. Ever see "The Hidden Valley"? thomas.wong1986 says It is the Soldier, not the reporter Who has given us freedom of the press. See "Alien and Sedition Acts" And maybe not the US, but see "Iraq" thomas.wong1986 says It is the Soldier, not the poet Who has given us freedom of speech. Kent State. It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer Who has given us freedom to protest. Homestead, Pullman, Ludlow Massacre. Striking workers got shot at by US soldiers. Strikes were routinely ended by the US Military. Also think of the Bonus Army - when soldiers killed veterans. Egypt, North Korea and Chad have soldiers - how free are they?

3. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   3   9:54am Tue 29 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected   The soldier works for the top 0.1% in any society. It's always been that way throughout history. The "People's Liberation Army" crushed the folks in Tiananmen Square.

4. thunderlips11 Follow Befriend (13) 52 threads 2,639 comments Premium

   4   11:07am Tue 29 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected   Cloud, it must be nice to live in a black/white world. US Soldiers are all Good. Liberals are all Bad. In your world, one can't have a nuanced opinion about anything. Thou art either with us or against us. The guys who stormed the beach at Normandy are Heroes. The National Guardsmen who fired on unarmed veterans in DC in the 30s weren't. Capt. Calley was a butcher. WO Thompson was a hero. If you want to thank the guys most responsible for stopping Hitler, thank a Russian. 80% of Wehrmacht casualties happened on the East Front. If you want to celebrate the guys who gave the most in WW2, thank the USAAF. The 8th USAAF took more casualties than any other US force in WW2. The Merchant Marine too, but oops! Not armed forces, so I guess going to Davey Jones locker to deliver Beans, Bullets, and Black Oil to fight the war after being torpedoed by a Jap Sub doesn't count, since they weren't soldiers. That's the real world. In Black/White world, the 101st paratroopers in Market-Garden were just as heroes as Capt. Calley. Sorry, I don't see it that way.

5. Kevin Follow Befriend 40 threads 2,652 comments

   5   4:00am Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   No. All of those rights exist by default. The solider (or rather, the soldier's commanders, since the soldier is just following orders) is the one who takes them away. Plenty of countries have soldiers that are ostensibly "defending", and have few to none of those rights. There's no threat to our freedoms at present that a soldier can do anything to prevent.

6. wbblair3 Follow Befriend 2 threads 94 comments

   6   11:58am Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   "I don't understand why there is not a HUGE protest against things like this" Because the VAST majority of Americas are too busy watching American Idol or some other equally brain-dead TV show to realize those things are even going on, the mainstream media isn't making a point of emphasizing that those things are going on or their significance, and a large percentage of Americans wouldn't realize the significance of those things even if they knew of them. As far as what Chris Hayes said about the use of the term "heroes," I agree completely with what he was brave enough to say: "I feel uncomfortable about the word because it seems to me that it is so rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war. Um, and, I don't want to obviously desecrate or disrespect memory of anyone that's fallen, and obviously there are individual circumstances in which there is genuine, tremendous heroism: hail of gunfire, rescuing fellow soldiers and things like that. But it seems to me that we marshal this word in a way that is problematic." And, BTW, I'm retired military and had I ever been put very seriously in harm's way, I would have been fighting for my own life and the lives of my friends fighting by my side, not for "God and Country." That would have been the very last thing on my mind unless I was actually on US soil defending US soil from foreign invaders. But that hasn't happened in a major way since, what, 1812?

7. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

   7   7:20pm Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   I appreciate and am grateful for the service of those in our military. Bap33 says I nominate this post from Kevin as one of the stupidest posts on Patrick. My guess is that you don't understand what he's saying. The last part might have been the hardest to understand, but I think he means that the only CURRENT real threat to our freedom comes from within, that is our politics, and our current somewhat corrupt system. If we were ever to become a fully fascist dictatorship, rather than the plutocracy/corporatocracy we have now, the military would still be in the service of that government. I think that's what Kevin meant. Hence the term "at present." And remember, "soldier" is a generic term that refers to soldiers of any country's military, and yes they are almost always all about following orders. This in no way invalidates righteous fights for freedom in the past or the future by American soldiers. Even the founding fathers spoke of risks from within (expect a comment from Abe about the federal reserve and sound money etc). Hence our well thought out 3 branches of government. The so called Citizens United ruling was an abomination, and is in my view one of the biggest current risks to our freedom. Others would cite the war on terror and some of the liberties we have lost as a result of that.

8. oliverks1 Follow Befriend 79 comments Aptos, CA

   8   10:06pm Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   thomas.wong1986 says It is the Soldier, not the minister Who has given us freedom of religion. It is the Soldier, not the reporter Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the Soldier, not the poet Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer Who has given us freedom to protest. It is the Soldier, not the lawyer Who has given us the right to a fair trial. It is the Soldier, not the politician Who has given us the right to vote. It is the Soldier who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protester to burn the flag. If I were a woman, it was demonstrations that gave me the right to vote in the US, not a soldier If I were a black man in the south, it was demonstrations that gave me the right to vote in the US, not a soldier If I were Gay or Lesbian, it was demonstrations that gave me the right to marry in the US, not a soldier If I were not a land owner, it was demonstrations that gave me the right to vote in the US, not a soldier If I were a southerner, it was a soldier that burnt my town to ground If I were a Native American, it was a soldier that burnt my village to the ground If I were a Kent state student, it was a soldier that killed me If I were a Japanese American, it was a soldier that interned me Happy Memorial Day

9. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 204 threads 4,416 comments Davis, CA

   9   2:06pm Tue 29 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   thomas.wong1986 says It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer Who has given us freedom to protest. The entire list is IMO built on logical fallacy. http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white Attempting to claim entire credit for "freedom to protest", by setting up a false dilemma that it's either soldiers or "hippies" well we know which is the "right" answer there. The "freedom to protest" in the U.S. at least was written into the Constitution by politicians during peacetime with not much significant standing military present. In other countries such things came into being as recognized rights without necessarily involving soldiers presumable killing anyone who disagreed.

10. Bigsby Follow Befriend 2,826 comments Monterey, CA

    10   5:30am Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Cloud says Thomas, on this site for many it will fall on deaf ears. Yet they LOVE the government that start the wars. Which wars did Obama start?

11. kentm Follow Befriend (1) 117 threads 971 comments

    11   5:41am Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   http://nsaneys.blogspot.ca/2012/05/memorial-day-homeless-american-veterans.html Memorial Day: Tonight, approximately 67,000 veterans will sleep in alleys, abandoned buildings and under bridges because they have no home. Yeah, try to remember them - with more than lip service and facile platitudes to militarism. Your words show zero support for or appreciation for the people who become soldiers and total support for the lies and mistruths that keep them there far beyond what's necessary. You wont understand that thomas, but you can start by asking yourself "What have I done lately to actually help out a veteran?"

12. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,191 threads 6,158 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA

    12   9:06am Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   And now that US troops can be deployed on US soil against US citizens, it looks like soldiers will be the ones that take away all our rights as well, to protect the 1% from anyone using freedom of speech. I don't understand why there is not a HUGE protest against things like this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/30/AR2008113002217.html http://www.naturalnews.com/026732_military_pandemic_outbreak.html http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/ http://www.salon.com/2009/07/25/military_4/

13. P N Dr Lo R Follow Befriend 21 threads 135 comments

    13   9:08am Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Cloud says Thomas, on this site for many it will fall on deaf ears Well that's the world we live in, full of contempt and cynicism. If the attitude that is ascendant today existed 1942-1945, we'd be living under Nazi-ism or Communism.

14. mdovell Follow Befriend (4) 28 threads 776 comments

    14   9:27am Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bigsby says Which wars did Obama start? Libya http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/13/obama-sending-us-forces-to-libya/ Uganda http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/obama-sends-100-us-troops-to-uganda-to-combat-lords-resistance-army/ Yemen http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0511/US-sends-troops-to-Yemen-as-Al-Qaeda-gains-ground If you include drones then Pakistan http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/23/us-drone-militants-pakistan-afghanistan Troop movements might include Israel http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=250249 And Australia http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/world/asia/obama-and-gillard-expand-us-australia-military-ties.html?pagewanted=all Yeah he might not be starting "wars" like bush did but drones kill.

15. errc Follow Befriend (7) 30 threads 1,220 comments 31 male Premium

    15   9:47am Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   I have done multiple tours in The War on Drug users, and they even awarded me with a Purple Kush Stay strong my brothers, the current admin continues to double down on both stupid and evil. Keep up the good fight

16. monkframe Follow Befriend 7 threads 187 comments Pacifica, CA

    16   7:01pm Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   "Which wars did Obama start?" Yemen, Pakistan, unknown others.

17. jvolstad Follow Befriend (4) 996 threads 1,128 comments San Antonio, TX jvolstad's website

    17   7:55pm Mon 28 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Remembering some of my former ASA (Army Security Agency) comrades.

18. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    18   8:17am Tue 29 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Kevin says All of those rights exist by default. Ha! Get real. It's only the second ammendment that gives any of the other rights. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

19. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 103 threads 3,768 comments

    19   8:45am Tue 29 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says And now that US troops can be deployed on US soil against US citizens, it looks like soldiers will be the ones that take away all our rights as well, to protect the 1% from anyone using freedom of speech. Patrick, do you think our men and women in the uniform would follow or refuse such orders? I guess that would be a good question for jvolstad.

20. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    20   9:48am Tue 29 May 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   bob2356 says No, the soldiers will be obeying lawful orders from the commander in chief, the president of the united states. The commander-in-chief being controlled by the top 0.1% who own him...