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Arizona's Grim Water Future.

By pazuzu   Follow   Wed, 20 Jun 2012, 12:27pm   4,489 views   63 comments
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http://www.verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1190&ArticleID=44263&TM=43003.9

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1. pazuzu Follow Befriend 6 threads 198 comments

   1   12:52pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   "The Ten Biggest American Cities That Are Running Out Of Water" "3. Phoenix" http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_111186.html

2. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 204 threads 4,416 comments Davis, CA

   2   12:56pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I'm surprised Salt Lake City isn't in the top 10. When Mrs. Vicente lived there, one of her neighbors got a bright idea to xeriscape the front yard to save water. Looked good using all natives with no watering required. They shortly got a hefty fine for not having the standard lawn.

3. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,653 comments

   3   1:01pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   pazuzu says "The Ten Biggest American Cities That Are Running Out Of Water" "3. Phoenix" Wow-- LA must be even more grim then, huh? And the Bay area isn't far behind it seems at #5.

4. Goran_K Follow Befriend (4) 25 threads 1,523 comments Laguna Beach, CA Premium

   4   1:02pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected   I wonder what will happen to real estate values in Phoenix when the water dries up. I'm sure SOMEONE here has an opinion on Phoenix here on Patrick.net. Right?

5. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 204 threads 4,416 comments Davis, CA

   5   1:04pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   tatupu70 says Wow-- LA must be even more grim then, huh? And the Bay area isn't far behind it seems at #5. Seems inevitable to me, that NorCal and SoCal will engage in Water Wars in a decade or three. Agriculture needs for water in the Central Valley are fixed and higher priority, than the desire of Angelenos to expand their city all the way to Las Vegas. Plus, it's not until I lived in The Valley, that I appreciated how NorCal people feel about SoCal. Bay Area and agriculture will win, and it will be "it's OUR water, and you'll get what dribbles we decide to share."

6. rooemoore Follow Befriend 41 threads 907 comments Ross, CA

   6   1:08pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Don't worry. Our friends in the Republican party are on it! http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/10/08/the-race-to-buy-up-the-world-s-water.html

7. pazuzu Follow Befriend 6 threads 198 comments

   7   1:09pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   "Wow-- LA must be even more grim then, huh? And the Bay area isn't far behind it seems at #5." Nah, Arizona is worse. It depletes Non Renewable Aquifers as it gulps its way toward its Age Of Thirst. "Every day Arizona and parts of New Mexico use 300 million gallons more than they get in renewable supply. The extra comes from underground supplies which are not renewable." http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-6073416.html

8. YesYNot Follow Befriend (2) 15 threads 430 comments Reston, VA

   8   1:18pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   The list is ranked by size of the city not size of the problem.

9. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   9   1:21pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected   You're kidding? A city built in the middle of a desert has a water problem?

10. Goran_K Follow Befriend (4) 25 threads 1,523 comments Laguna Beach, CA Premium

    10   1:31pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   wthrfrk80 says You're kidding? A city built in the middle of a desert has a water problem? Don't worry my friend, there is a lack of housing inventory, and you can get a 10% ROI with every Phoenix condo and SFH you buy! Who needs water when you're rolling in the benjamins?

11. duckhead Follow Befriend 3 threads 81 comments

    11   2:00pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   WATER???? Why is this in the Real Estate section please? Real Estate is land not water, duh. Anyway what does running out of water have to do with house prices.? DOOMERS ARE RIDICULOUS>>!

12. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    12   2:08pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected   Who exactly decided it would be a good idea to build big cities in deserts? I don't understand the attraction. Is it the sunshine? The lack of humidity? The scorpions?

13. pazuzu Follow Befriend 6 threads 198 comments

    13   2:12pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Yes "big" is the problem. Small desert communities can do quite well given the water resources available. Problem is Arizona took the exurb to hellish extremes in hellholes. A vast outward migration and total collapse in house prices are in its future.

14. robertoaribas Follow Befriend (23) 55 threads 3,836 comments Scottsdale, AZ robertoaribas's website

    14   2:19pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   Goran_K says I wonder what will happen to real estate values in Phoenix when the water dries up. I'm sure SOMEONE here has an opinion on Phoenix here on Patrick.net. Right? Over 75% of Arizona water usage is for agriculture. The cities are hardly a problem at all, and for now, our water expense is very small. If water gets expensive, people will get rid of their grass, start covering their pools, using gray water for irrigation etc. My bill is $100 a month, for four of us, landscape watering and my pool. that also includes sewer, trash, and recycling, the actual bill for the water is very small. By the way, Arizona sells some of its unused allocation of Colorado river water to California, so when we need more, we'll cut you off. We also sell electricity to California, so maybe we'll cut that off too!

15. pazuzu Follow Befriend 6 threads 198 comments

    15   2:23pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike   Don't forget Arizona's ace in the hole strategy for water:

16. duckhead Follow Befriend 3 threads 81 comments

    16   2:49pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Wow that’s awesome! Roberto practices what he preaches, he has HIS OWN DOG working toward a positive water future for his proud state. I SALUTE YOU BOOMBA!>!

17. PockyClipsNow Follow Befriend 19 threads 1,534 comments Los Angeles, CA

    17   3:06pm Wed 20 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   As long as they dont run out of beer in AZ prices will hold up fine. Is there a beer drought on the horizon, better monitor this!

18. pazuzu Follow Befriend 6 threads 198 comments

    18   1:13pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   "Drought conditions persist or worsen, Colorado River flows have diminished and water storage at Lake Mead drops to levels requiring shortage declarations. Farmers send their water to cities, drying up land and sending regional economies dependent on agriculture into a tailspin. Groundwater pumping in excess of that amount replenished naturally has caused overdraft of Arizona’s aquifers, reducing or eliminating river flows and drying up riparian areas, and transforming the land surface through fissuring and subsidence." http://www.gwresources.com/Documents/publications/gci-arizona_at_the_crossroads.pdf

19. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    19   1:19pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   robertoaribas says By the way, Arizona sells some of its unused allocation of Colorado river water to California, so when we need more, we'll cut you off. We also sell electricity to California, so maybe we'll cut that off too! Of course the question is: when will Arizona sell some of it's unused allocation of illegal immigrant labor to California? Such a policy could come in handy to the "powers that be" (in both states) during elections.

20. robertoaribas Follow Befriend (23) 55 threads 3,836 comments Scottsdale, AZ robertoaribas's website

    20   1:38pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   wthrfrk80 says Of course the question is: when will Arizona sell some of it's unused allocation of illegal immigrant labor to California? Such a policy could come in handy to the "powers that be" (in both states) during elections. I say do a background check, and charge $10,000 for every illegal immigrant that wants a permanent resident visa... Let them make payments on it too. Give a social security number that requires payments, but accrues no benefits... We could shore up social security for the future, stop wasting money harassing taco vendors and landscapers etc. Legal marijuana ant tax it... Legalize prostitution, and tax it... Hell, I think I just balanced the US budget. Vote for Ribas!

21. robertoaribas Follow Befriend (23) 55 threads 3,836 comments Scottsdale, AZ robertoaribas's website

    21   1:38pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Of course the question is: when will Arizona sell some of it's unused allocation of illegal immigrant labor to California? Such a policy could come in handy to the "powers that be" (in both states) during elections. I say do a background check, and charge $10,000 for every illegal immigrant that wants a permanent resident visa... Let them make payments on it too. Give a social security number that requires payments, but accrues no benefits... We could shore up social security for the future, stop wasting money harassing taco vendors and landscapers etc. Legal marijuana ant tax it... Legalize prostitution, and tax it... Hell, I think I just balanced the US budget. Vote for Ribas!

22. PockyClipsNow Follow Befriend 19 threads 1,534 comments Los Angeles, CA

    22   1:46pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Damn I'll vote for you. But you gotta get my boy Ron Paul onboard as VP!

23. Schizlor Follow Befriend (2) 176 comments Virginia Beach, VA

    23   1:55pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   duckhead says WATER???? Why is this in the Real Estate section please? Real Estate is land not water, duh. Anyway what does running out of water have to do with house prices.? DOOMERS ARE RIDICULOUS>>! Really? Aside from an asteroid impact, or the once-every-800-million-years Yellowstone Mega-Earthquake...I cannot imagine a more devastating event for a population center to endure than running out of water. For christ's sake, it's the #2 most vital resource humans consume, behind only air (oxygen). Which is also the reason that for the majority of human history, before we'd mastered terraforming and advanced engineering, humans avoided living in climates like Phoenix. It should be plain to see how an area going from 'hospitable' to 'inhospitable' might have a negative effect on property values.

24. PockyClipsNow Follow Befriend 19 threads 1,534 comments Los Angeles, CA

    24   1:56pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Schizlor says duckhead says WATER???? Why is this in the Real Estate section please? Real Estate is land not water, duh. Anyway what does running out of water have to do with house prices.? DOOMERS ARE RIDICULOUS>>! Really? Aside from an asteroid impact, or the once-every-800-million-years Yellowstone Mega-Earthquake...I cannot imagine a more devastating event for a population center to endure than running out of water. For christ's sake, it's the #2 most vital resource humans consume, behind only air (oxygen). Which is also the reason that for the majority of human history, before we'd mastered terraforming and advanced engineering, humans avoided living in climates like Phoenix. It should be plain to see how an area going from 'hospitable' to 'inhospitable' might have a negative effect on property values. I think he was being sarcastic.

25. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 204 threads 4,416 comments Davis, CA

    25   2:08pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Schizlor says It should be plain to see how an area going from 'hospitable' to 'inhospitable' might have a negative effect on property values. Who there Negative Nellie. Look on the bright side, that's how we get deserted cities in the desert for future generations to study. Oh wait, the Mayans built with stone, the Pueblo built cliff-dwellings with stone, well surely those Arizona retirement burbclaves are built of sturdy stuff that will be standing in 500+ years right?

26. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 250 threads 4,758 comments

    26   2:08pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I say melt the icecaps, problem solved.

27. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    27   2:09pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   robertoaribas says The cities are hardly a problem at all, and for now, our water expense is very small. If water gets expensive, people will get rid of their grass, start covering their pools, using gray water for irrigation etc. Yes not a problem now but in the next 40 years the impact is going to be significant. You may be underestimating Arizonans future access to fresh water. There will probably not be many swimming pools let alone covered pools. http://www.nrdc.org/water/readiness/files/water-readiness-AZ.pdf Decreases in streamflow also could lead to reductions in hydropower generation, water quality issues as pollutant concentrations and salinity increase, and reductions in fish and wildlife habitat. Winter and spring flooding risks could increase as a result of more wintertime precipitation occurring as rain and faster springtime snowmelt. Conversely, decreased late-spring and summer runoff could cause decreased groundwater aquifer recharge and impact areas that rely heavily on groundwater supplies. Any impacts to water availability as a result of climate change would have significant ramifications for the agricultural, urban, industrial, and environmental users that rely on them. A recent study by researchers at Sandia National Laboratories estimated that reduced water availability associated with climate change could cost Arizona close to $70 billion in GDP and more than 480,000 jobs by 2050. Also, Arizona is not doing a great job in planning for this future, but at least they are not drafting legislation that requires people to ignore climate science. http://current.com/entertainment/comedy/93796586_colbert-report-on-north-carolina-bill-to-make-climate-science-illegal.htm

28. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    28   2:12pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   CaptainShuddup says I say melt the icecaps, problem solved.

29. robertoaribas Follow Befriend (23) 55 threads 3,836 comments Scottsdale, AZ robertoaribas's website

    29   2:15pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   leoj707 says Yes not a problem now but in the next 40 years the impact is going to be significant. You may be underestimating Arizonans future access to fresh water. There will probably not be many swimming pools let alone covered pools. Agreed. Arizona is handling its water future as stupidly as its energy future, with unrestrained urban sprawl and little conservation. BUT as a real estate investor, you actually expect me to factor in 40 years from now water scenarios? I'll be almost 90! My purchases will have paid me back every penny I put into them in 10 years tops on rental income alone! I'm reasonably sure Phoenix can survive the next decade! Plus, examine technology today compared to 40 year old technology. I'd like to think we will have an entirely different water system by then!

30. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    30   2:36pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   robertoaribas says BUT as a real estate investor, you actually expect me to factor in 40 years from now water scenarios? I'll be almost 90! My purchases will have paid me back every penny I put into them in 10 years tops on rental income alone! I'm reasonably sure Phoenix can survive the next decade! Yep, point taken. However, the decline will probably be gradual and I would not plan on any income from Arizona real estate during my retirement. robertoaribas says Plus, examine technology today compared to 40 year old technology. I'd like to think we will have an entirely different water system by then! Maybe, but what technology are we talking about? Sure, consumer electronics has exploded over the last 40 years. When was the last big advancement in agriculture that allowed for a huge increase in production? (HINT: it has to do with nitrogen and happened over 100 years ago) Technology used to get clean water to your mouth also has changed very little over the last 40 or even 100 years and advancements (like desalinization) to get more potable water require huge amounts of energy. While it is possible that some ultra-cheap system of teleporting only the clean parts of sea water directly to your home is invented, I am not going to hold my breath.

31. robertoaribas Follow Befriend (23) 55 threads 3,836 comments Scottsdale, AZ robertoaribas's website

    31   3:02pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   leoj707 says Yep, point taken. However, the decline will probably be gradual and I would not plan on any income from Arizona real estate during my retirement. that is flat out ridiculous. Phoenix cut easily cut its water usage in half by even modest reductions in waste: grass yards, uncovered pools, allowing flood irrigation in older neighborhoods... NOT to mention the huge amount that goes into cotton fields... It doesn't take expensive water desalinization, simply a sepererate water loop on a home to recycle shower water would cut usage down another 20% per household. Seems to me Southern California is the place that is always putting water restrictions in place...

32. PockyClipsNow Follow Befriend 19 threads 1,534 comments Los Angeles, CA

    32   3:07pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   In the future AZ will be a desert!

33. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 229 threads 2,790 comments

    33   3:18pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   PockyClipsNow says In the future AZ will be a desert! Ssshhhhh.... don't tell Roberto...

34. PockyClipsNow Follow Befriend 19 threads 1,534 comments Los Angeles, CA

    34   3:24pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I can see in my mind what it might look like... sand, cactus, and small shrubs for miles in all directions everywhere around phoenix! the horror.

35. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 229 threads 2,790 comments

    35   3:29pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   CaptainShuddup says I say melt the icecaps, problem solved. Wait, there's the solution!! Just move the icecaps to Arizona, problem solved!!!!

36. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 229 threads 2,790 comments

    36   3:29pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   PockyClipsNow says I can see in my mind what it might look like... sand, cactus, and small shrubs for miles in all directions everywhere around phoenix! the horror. That would really be horrible!!!

37. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    37   3:40pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   robertoaribas says Phoenix cut easily cut its water usage in half by even modest reductions in waste: grass yards, uncovered pools, allowing flood irrigation in older neighborhoods... NOT to mention the huge amount that goes into cotton fields... ...a sepererate water loop on a home to recycle shower water would cut usage down another 20% per household. I am sure when they do their projections they take none of this into account. robertoaribas says It doesn't take expensive water desalinization True, but for desalinization to even be an option you first need access to a large amount of salt water. robertoaribas says Seems to me Southern California is the place that is always putting water restrictions in place... Yes, Southern California is also going to have great fresh water difficulties due to climate change. Funny thing is that even without climate change we are consuming fresh water faster than it is "created". Aquifers all over are being drained. Actually the good news for Arizona is that seasonal rains may increase -- helping to charge the aquifer at a greater rate than it is currently. The problem is that the overall input of new fresh water into the lower Colorado river basin is going to probably reduce. robertoaribas says that is flat out ridiculous. Actually what is going to be ridiculous is you at 90 wearing a stillsuit in the Arizona heat...

38. Goran_K Follow Befriend (4) 25 threads 1,523 comments Laguna Beach, CA Premium

    38   5:48pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   PockyClipsNow says In the future AZ will be a desert! In the future?

39. robertoaribas Follow Befriend (23) 55 threads 3,836 comments Scottsdale, AZ robertoaribas's website

    39   8:06pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   it was 113 today. I'm pretty sure it is already a desert...

40. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 229 threads 2,790 comments

    40   8:40pm Thu 21 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   robertoaribas says it was 113 today. I'm pretty sure it is already a desert... But, it's a DRY heat....

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