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Permalink Like (1) Dislike Whoops.......so much for Shrek's predictive ability. I'm beginning to like Roberts. First he throws out the Arizona law, now he upholds health care reform.
I'm actually pretty amazed by this decision. I hope it represents a real evolution in the thinking of John Roberts and not just a couple of instances of temporary sanity.
Liberal chief justice John Roberts........I like the sound of that!
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Premium member iwog is moderator of this thread. |
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Corning, NY
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See, that's what I'm saying.
I don't see how this is a win for anyone but the big insurance monopolies.
Sure, from a purely partisan standpoint it's a "win" for Obama and his supporters. But how is it a win for average people?
This is America. We take the worst ideas from the Left and Right and make it into laws that enrich the well-connected few at the expense of the many.
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Corning, NY
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FortWayne says
Yep. The market doesn't lie.
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iwog says
Medicaid expansion was taken out, and even if it wasn't it's not that isn't a public option. Public option is when you have a choice... but with this law you don't.
America is still the land where the only choices we get are trivial and meaningless, and now even more so.
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xenogear3 says
Cause the banks are junk. Not related to op I know.
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46 male
Menlo Park, CA
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FortWayne says
We definitely need a public option for everyone to force the private insurance carriers to slow down their orgy of rate increases.
How can we get that public option, and the ability to buy private insurance across state lines? Organizing and motivating voters is hard without money, and the insurers are the ones with the money, not the rest of us.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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wthrfrk80 says
No lifetime benefit caps, no pre-existing condition denials, no denial of children for any reason, low income access to health care, no more using emergency rooms as a doctor's office, government oversight over rates and profits.
There's plenty of good stuff in this law.
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The civil suits and campaigns at doctor's office level will begin immediately, as well as offshore funding of political disruption campaigns to get rid of Obama, seat Romney, and begin dismantling of Obamacare, medicare, medicade, social security and, of course, establishment of helicopter hunting licenses for 'illegals' on the premise that wetbacks are the Real Reason health care is not half as cheap as it could be, even though it is the best in the world, none better, etc.
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FortWayne,
I just checked WLP and HUM and their stock is down vs. the market average, not up. What stocks are you referring to?
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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Ruki says
Wow seriously? There isn't anyone on the left with the hatred for this country that the right exhibits every day.
I think Roberts was an ass for Citizen's United but maybe he's coming around. I've never called him a traitor, burned him in effigy, or sent him a death threat.
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APOCALYPSEDUCK is Shostakovich says
What about RomneyCare?
That's what I don't understand. Romney isn't all that conservative on health care and social issues. But he'll give the top 0.1% whatever they want of course.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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The worst Republican nightmare is to have Obamacare fully in effect. They thrive on ignorance.
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Corning, NY
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iwog says
Which means rates go up. A lot.
There's no free lunch. And now I MUST pay whatever rate the insurnace companies demand, or I pay a penalty.
How is this a victory for anyone?
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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Ruki says
I'll chalk this up to the same quality as all your other predictions.
"I'll make sure health care corporations can deny coverage for your child!"
~ Romney 2012
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iwog says
That sounds like blind partisanship. Sure, the decision is a win for the Democrat "team" but is it really a win for average people?
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wthrfrk80 says
Healthcare providers. Insurer stocks dropped slightly this morning (all the shorts pre Supreme Court decision came in from yesterday), but are climbing back up.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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wthrfrk80 says
Because your premise is flawed. EVERYONE IS ALREADY COVERED. Anyone having a heart attack drives to the nearest hospital regardless of insurance and is treated immediately.
We might see costs drop instead of increase because poor people will be able to get medication instead of suffering the very expensive results of having none.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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wthrfrk80 says
Yes. It's a win for average people. I'd like to see universal heatlh care, but this is better than what we had before.
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What about it? The insurances rate rises were pulling businesses into a very bad place and the commonwealth pushed back. It's not a lefty posture. A leftist position would to take control of the insurers or make their business illegal and put up a state-controlled monopoly.
Romney has almost no politics outside a personal, Mormon success theology that kinda looks like Republicanism. He's a quivering minion of the cult of Mormon. He picks up the phone and asks the poobahs in SLC if it's time for him to use the bathroom. He says a little prayer to Moroni before he makes the call that, again, they'll allow him to urinate.
He wants to deliver a Mormon Dynasty to the guys in SLC. That's his programming. His time as governor told the whole story. He's not really there. He's just a vessel for institutional ambitions. Success is standing next to the largest pile of loot in the room.
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Lafayette, CA
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Ruki says
I didn't think Roberts would be smart enough to follow the constitution, but apparently he is.
Anyway you crack me up. First you say that the Supreme Court knocking down Obamacare will help Romney, then you say the Supreme Court upholding Obamacare will help Romney.
Brilliant.
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wthrfrk80 says
Hard to know what an "average" person is in regards to health care. But in general I would say an average person benefits by having health care insurance as opposed to not having it and this law makes coverage more available, the question is at what cost. Single payer would be far better and far cheaper.
It is a win for the insurance companies, but also a loss as it does limit their profits and overhead to 20% of premium collected.
It is a huge win for individuals with pre existing conditions not in group insurance plans, and for the working lower income people because of the medicaid expansion provision.
The law has lots of flaws and really needs a public option added
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Regarding the Roberts move - its interesting because it has long been thought that the limits of the commerce clause were US v Lopez, and thus since this bill would expand beyond that, it would be struck down.
As it turns out, it is indeed unconstitutional under the commerce clause - same with the necessary and proper. However, the twist comes in that it was upheld under the constitutional powers of taxation.
I dont know if the administration tried to argue in the alternative that it was a constitutional tax, but in any event my understanding is thats what Roberts decided.
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The Rubber hasn't hit the road yet.
People are as stupid as this board is short sighted.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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Ruki says
No, that's just idiotic. The constitution allows the government to tax. Period. Sorry you don't like taxes.
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Ruki says
Exactly. My rates will increase dramatically because less than 1% of the population will game the system with their insane conditions.
Then again, I'm somewhat of a heartless bastard who approves of releasing the elderly from the community similar to the The Giver or Logan's Run.
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Lafayette, CA
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CaptainShuddup says
You mean my insurance premiums will go up 15% every year like they have for the last 10 years?
OH NOES!!!
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iwog says
There's a distinction between taxes to the public treasury and a mandate to buy something from a private company.
Right?
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Santa Cruz, CA
Roberts was a liberal dimwit which I always suspected.
This is actually going to hurt Obama and the Demos this fall election. The public doesn't like this decision one fucking bit you can bet on that.
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Santa Cruz, CA
Expect the layoffs before the election by retailers and other businesses.
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Read very carefully...
http://healthreform.kff.org/the-basics/Requirement-to-buy-coverage-flowchart.aspx?utm_source=hrs&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=timeline
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iwog says
Fact in 2010 a family of 4 anual premium was $3,997
and now under obamacare it will be $12,500
Which I find hard to belive it already is 20K a year.
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clambo says
His decision will help enrich insurance companies and the top 0.1%. How does that make him "liberal"?
This is America. We take the worst ideas from the left and right and combine them into the worst possible legislation. ObamaCare is a prime example.
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Alameda, CA
Wow, now I won't get any work done because I'm going to spend the rest of the day trolling on right wing blogs. These people are going to burst their spleens; here's a sample:
Ben Shapiro wrote
No hyperbole either, eh?
Joel Pollack wrote
Yep, a republican-appointed judge upholds a policy cooked up by the Heritage Institute, and this puts American democracy at risk.
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No one ever accused the teabaggers of being sane.
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Boston, MA
Get ready for ALOT of primary care doctors retiring early, leaving the profession. Get ready to wait a LONG time to get a hold of a primary doctor. Get ready for a shortage of doctors in general.
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iwog says
Huh? The worst nightmare for Republicans is that it got shot down and the job market improved enough for Obama to take credit for it. This guarantees the job market will be crap until November.
People might be electing Romney just to get Obamacare nixed.
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The primary care exodus started 10-15 years ago. My sister's lost three since the mid-1990s. Same story. Can't spend half their time screaming at insurance drones on the phone and call it a life.
This will just finish off the entire system.
The rich will fly to private clinics pay cash. The poor will buy hunting rifles and blow their own brains out when they can't take the pain any more.
It's the only reasonable outcome.
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wthrfrk80 says
--------------------------------------
I find the argument of Teaparty folks labelled as 'extreme' very fascinating. So, if you live within your means, don't carry huge amounts of credit card debt, pay your bills on time, you are considered 'smart, reliable, doing the 'right thing', etc....But when we ask our gov't to apply these same traits of our behaviour that we live by, we are labelled 'extreme' and insane... I guess 'common sense' isn't so common....
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wthrfrk80 says
JPM is the 900lb gorilla in the stock market today.
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San Jose, CA
AverageBear says
Which is more or less exactly how it is now, if this gets rid of those who overcharge using their massively overpriced education as justification; good riddance. Kills two birds with one stone by hitting the scumbag universities too.
This will do nothing to the number of doctors, they will be back to work the second they realize they need to eat too.
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The only problem I've had with the law is that it didn't prohibit all the Neo-Con Republican Teabag Parasites. I'm sick of paying taxes to support all the N-C R T P that are using all the tax supported social programs. Leaches,Deadbeats,Freeloaders.
Real Independent American Patriots don't need government assistance.