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Obamacare is upheld by the Supreme Court

By iwog   Follow   Thu, 28 Jun 2012, 7:18am   17,849 views   298 comments
In Lafayette CA 94549   Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

Whoops.......so much for Shrek's predictive ability. I'm beginning to like Roberts. First he throws out the Arizona law, now he upholds health care reform.

I'm actually pretty amazed by this decision. I hope it represents a real evolution in the thinking of John Roberts and not just a couple of instances of temporary sanity.

Liberal chief justice John Roberts........I like the sound of that!

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1. KILLERJANE Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 600 comments

   99   11:05am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Let's see, I go to doctors once every 3 years, maybe. What will I be required to pay monthly for that. Family of 4. 100 dollars I hope for any unforeseeable matters. Does anyone have the numbers?

2. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

   100   11:08am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   StoutFiles says As long as my payments are not affected by other people. I can't comprehend how people can think this way. There is a randomness to which children get cancer or other terrible conditions which cost many hundreds of thousands to treat. The same for young or medium age adults. Of course society should share the cost for these. The huge part of health care to seniors is already handled this way. EVERY other developed country has already proven that when everyone just divides up the cost of covering everyone (various systems of relatively socialized medicine ) costs are ultimately way better contained than in our system. Why are we so fucking slow to learn that capitalism is not the way to go for health care ? IT didn't take us long to figure out insurance was needed, which was just creating a layer of profits for an incredibly inefficient and unfair way of distributing the cost to most of us.

3. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   101   11:08am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   AverageBear says All doctors are TOLD to go where they are told to go, and told what they are going to do. Not by choice, but by law.....Like my Dad used to tell me..."Kid, you ain't seen nuthin' yet"..... Keep those lies flowing. Private medical care is available in Canada. I've paid for medical care in Canada myself. You simply don't live in the real world.

4. EBGuy Follow Befriend 4 threads 2,099 comments

   102   11:09am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   How is this a victory for anyone? I know various folks who are "trapped" in their existing plans because their kid "broke their big toe" (all right, exaggeration, but close to what happened) or the wife once told their doctor they were depressed (this will go on your permanent record). They are now free the shop around.

5. KILLERJANE Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 600 comments

   103   11:10am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I went to a pharmacy in Sweden and was treated 5-10 minutes later by a doctor for about 15 us dollars, not resident charge. I had a virus. Got medicine. I hope we get those. 150 for a us doctor to prescribe antibiotics for a simple flu cold is just wrong. Oh and us antibiotic is 65 or more. Cost about 250 to get sick. Not cool.

6. KILLERJANE Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 600 comments

   104   11:14am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   Maybe now people wont get liens placed on their property for medical bills.

7. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,499 comments

   105   11:18am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   KILLERJANE says I went to a pharmacy in Sweden and was treated 5-10 minutes later by a doctor for about 15 us dollars, not resident charge. I had a virus. Got medicine. I hope we get those. 150 for a us doctor to prescribe antibiotics for a simple flu cold is just wrong. Oh and us antibiotic is 65 or more. Cost about 250 to get sick. Not cool. Thinking saying and doing need to line up. If you got an antibiotic for a virus then you got ripped off big time. I really hope we don't get those

8. AlexS Follow Befriend (1) 1 threads 284 comments

   106   11:19am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   http://mises.org/daily/3650/What-Soviet-Medicine-Teaches-Us

9. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

   107   11:19am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   AverageBear says Any primary care physician within 5-10 years of retirement, is going to say 'fuck it!" I'm not gonna eat a slice of Obama-care-Shit-Pie." I'm not going to wait 6-9 months to get paid .80 cents on the dollar. This is a very uninformed assumption or guess. Here's my equally uninformed guess. Most physicians who make between 150k and 300K won't see much change in their pay, but in the long term their workloads will get tougher. But the specialties that manage to make way more ? Those will be the ones to take a hit. Healthcare is 16% of our GDP and there is a lot being made there. A lot of inefficiencies and a lot of profits that are going to have to be reduced. I don't believe that much will be coming out of doctors pay. They, like nurses and others are the essential front lines. That's not where most of the cost problem is or was with our system.

10. Bap33 Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 3,101 comments

    108   11:23am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   hmmm .... the left wants smokers to not smoke and fat kids to not eat McDs or sugar or 32oz sodas ... right? But smoking dope they think is a good idea .. right? Now, I may be just a silly conservoboob, but won't the next step in this nanny state medical care thing be to control the "exposure side" by behavior modification? And since those who will be accessing the system are not made to pay for their usage, how might the left plan to modify the behavior of the 20 year old fat slob going to JC and living in moms basement, spending every minute he is not masterbating to porn, on blogs spreading the Obamanation message? For normal paying people the co-pay and rate increases help keep useage in check. A discount for being healthy and such is also in play. How will the non-payers be made to decrease exposure? The same side that promotes smoking dope, deviant sex between males, and no competitive activity for kids or even playing tag in school .... are now going to decide what behaviors are allowed. Wanna bet that driving (due to stress and crashes) is going to be one of the first targets for activity that those in charge want to see reduced? Just a hunch. I don't see Romney and the GOP doing anything but playing football with this stuff and changing nothing. We shall contiue down the crap chute until the reset button is pressed and held - firmly. It is going to be hell. Hell is coming - count on it. But, not because of this one thing, no no no, hell is coming because we have moved away from the foundation of America. Some think that is great because they hate America, and some thinks it is bad and they are starting to hate America too. One way to get people healthier would be to have a limited amount of time on each individual's internet access. I vote we have an automatic shut-down to all personal internet access after 20 minutes per day. And in-home television limited to 1 hour per day. Limiting some other comforts would help too. Outlaw remote controllers for TV and radio Outlaw automatic garage doors Outlaw power steering in cars (this helps gas mileage too) Outlaw electric clothes dryers. Hanging is free and works fine. lets get healthy people!! lol ... I'm going to lunch! lol

11. StoutFiles Follow Befriend (1) 24 threads 557 comments

    109   11:23am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Because some people don't grow old right? Or people can usually predict when they are going to suffer a catastrophic injury? People pay more once they get older. Once people retire, aka not contributing to society, they are only covered for basic needs. If they can't afford to pay for their 500k surgery, they go without it until they pass away. Or they get the Kevorkian treatment, which should be legal. People who are old and don't want to live a life in pain shouldn't have to. tatupu70 says lol--I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that your above opinion will change as you get older... Only if I'm not allowed to medically off myself when I need constant medical help to stay alive. marcus says There is a randomness to which children get cancer or other terrible conditions which cost many hundreds of thousands to treat. The same for young or medium age adults. Of course society should share the cost for these. Agreed. marcus says The huge part of health care to seniors is already handled this way. Which would be fine until you consider the vast amount of seniors that just keeps growing. There's only so much money in the pot yet the seniors are the ones that are going to eat up all of it with their constant medical needs. Add to the fact that no one tries to cure conditions, just keep them at bay (the money is made when old people need to take pills for life, not one and be cured) and you've got a large group of people dipping into insurance every day. My standard of living is lowered because great-grandma needs to take 30 pills a day to get to her chair and watch her shows, then get from her chair to the bed. I don't mind helping people that are young enough to do things in society, but we have a group of people sitting in homes doing nothing but burning money.

12. errc Follow Befriend (7) 30 threads 1,220 comments 31 male Premium

    110   11:25am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   If the point of healthcare is to better ones health situation, what does this law address? People aren't less healthy because of lack of insurance (have you already devolved to some sort of humanoid/monkey?) People fall ill because of poor diet. The government and their subsidies and false information is the main culprit here. With this act, what changes, as far as nutrition of the citizenry? This bill only improves quality of life as much as it improves the diet of the citizenry, which is not at all Iwog is correct in that the statists thrive off of ignorance. If you think people can keep consuming all this crap and somehow forcing people to buy more insurance is some magic pill, then you are truly ignorant!

13. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,499 comments

    111   11:31am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   StoutFiles says My standard of living is lowered because great-grandma needs to take 30 pills a day to get to her chair and watch her shows, then get from her chair to the bed. I don't mind helping people that are young enough to do things in society, but we have a group of people sitting in homes doing nothing but burning money. How long do you plan on living just out of curiosity? I'm sure you will stand by your principles and just kill yourself the day you retire rather than be a burden on younger people who can do things. Right, sure. I bet you will be first in line to burn money when the time comes.

14. bdrasin Follow Befriend 6 threads 490 comments Alameda, CA

    112   11:34am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   errc says If the point of healthcare is to better ones health situation, what does this law address? People aren't less healthy because of lack of insurance (have you already devolved to some sort of humanoid/monkey?) I guess if you don't think access to health care makes people healthy, it's a bad law

15. Homeboy Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,503 comments

    113   11:36am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   FortWayne says StoutFiles says Exactly. My rates will increase dramatically because less than 1% of the population will game the system with their insane conditions. Absolutely agree. Yet the left, that chooses to stay uninformed thinks this will not make insurance more prohibitively expensive. The penalty of $95 or whatever it is, isn't going to be anywhere close to the huge surgery bills that will result from people getting insurance post trauma because they cannot be declined. And since with this law pre existing conditions cannot be used to determine individual risk, that risk has to be assumed across the board... Healthcare costs will skyrocket and so will insurance since they are a pass through system. Freedom 1789-2012 Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the legislation only says you cannot be DENIED insurance because of a pre-existing condition. It does not say pre-existing conditions can't be used to assess risk, does it? There is a cap on how extreme the rate differential can be between different people, but it doesn't say everyone's premium must be the same. High-risk people are already insured under the current system, so I don't understand why you think this will cause your rates to go up.

16. zzyzzx Follow Befriend (9) 416 threads 4,138 comments Baltimore, MD

    114   11:39am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   KILLERJANE says I went to a pharmacy in Sweden and was treated 5-10 minutes later by a doctor for about 15 us dollars, not resident charge. I had a virus. Got medicine. I hope we get those. 150 for a us doctor to prescribe antibiotics for a simple flu cold is just wrong. Oh and us antibiotic is 65 or more. Cost about 250 to get sick. Not cool. It's more like $300 around here to get a doctor to write you a prescription. But for a simple cold or flu, you shouldn't be going to a doctor.

17. errc Follow Befriend (7) 30 threads 1,220 comments 31 male Premium

    115   11:41am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   bdrasin says errc says If the point of healthcare is to better ones health situation, what does this law address? People aren't less healthy because of lack of insurance (have you already devolved to some sort of humanoid/monkey?) I guess if you don't think access to health care makes people healthy, it's a bad law I don't think. I know. You are what you eat. People eat like shit, and they suffer poor health because of it. No amount of government mandated insurance or access to drugs is going to change that pesky fact

18. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    116   11:46am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   errc says If you think people can keep consuming all this crap and somehow forcing people to buy more insurance is some magic pill, then you are truly ignorant! This thinking is why you should minimize the dope smoking. Here, in a similar same vein one might say: The real causes of criminal behavior is that children aren't getting the kind of love and attention they need. If you think having a legal system and prisons are some sort of a magic pill for preventing criminal behavior, then you are truly ignorant. A legal system and prisons are needed, regardless of the causes of crime. Similarly a health care system is needed, independent of the causes of ill health.

19. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    117   11:47am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   marcus says Why are we so fucking slow to learn that capitalism is not the way to go for health care ? True. It took us way too long to learn that crony-capitalism is the way to go for health care. What a bunch of dumbfucks we were all this time.

20. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 103 threads 3,768 comments

    118   11:49am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Homeboy says It does not say pre-existing conditions can't be used to assess risk, does it? Yep it does, as well as age.... those risk factors are no longer are allowed as criteria for risk assessment. Basically insurance has to assume high risk for every single individual instead. If you are young and your insurance wasn't expensive, it's going to go up. If you are old and it was expensive, it will still go up on assumptions that you might fall into that 1% need surgeries and transplants category.

21. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    119   11:50am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says It took us way too long to learn that crony-capitalism is the way to go for health care. What a bunch of dumbfucks we were all this time. Wtf indeed. Now I remember why I had you on ignore for a few months.

22. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    120   11:50am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   errc says You are what you eat. People eat like shit, and they suffer poor health because of it. No amount of government mandated insurance or access to drugs is going to change that pesky fact Marcus is right. There is nowhere near as clear of a correlation between diet and health as you pretend.

23. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    121   11:53am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   StoutFiles says Only if I'm not allowed to medically off myself when I need constant medical help to stay alive. What if you just need two expensive surgeries followed by rehab. Total cost = $500K. Afterwards you are completely healthy with a 35 year life expectancy. Still think you should be killed?

24. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    122   11:54am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   marcus says This thinking is why you should minimize the dope smoking. Why should he? That costs of that behavior are now socialized.

25. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    123   11:56am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   marcus says Wtf indeed. Now I remember why I had you on ignore for a few months. Are you suggesting that a government mandate to buy private insurance is NOT crony capitalism? Please, make that case!

26. KILLERJANE Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 600 comments

    124   11:56am Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I agree with ercc. It is true. You don't put orange juice in your gas tank. You know what I mean. " "You are what you eat. People eat like shit, and they suffer poor health because of it. No amount of government mandated insurance or access to drugs is going to change that pesky fact" "

27. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    125   12:01pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   KILLERJANE says You are what you eat. People eat like shit, and they suffer poor health because of it. No amount of government mandated insurance or access to drugs is going to change that pesky fact" Diet is one aspect of health. Genetics is another. Certainly you'd agree that people that eat right, exercise, with good BMI, etc. still get cancer. And fat slobs that smoke a pack a day live to be 100. There is a large amount of randomness to a person's health. That is the ugly truth.

28. KILLERJANE Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 600 comments

    126   12:02pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I don't want it. I pay now 318 for family 4. What will it be with ocare? No one will be able to afford it. No one with an average wage.

29. thomas.wong1986 Follow Befriend 16 threads 4,426 comments

    127   12:05pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   iwog says First he throws out the Arizona law, now he upholds health care reform. You need to check again.. the main content of AZ law was upheld.. an officer of the Law in AZ can ask for immigration/citizen papers. The hiring of illegal immigrants still remains federal crime prior to the AZ law.Nothing has changed on the legal front that would allow hiring to be allowed. "The Supreme Court rebuffed the Obama administration's lawsuit and upheld a key part of Arizona's tough anti-illegal immigration law on Monday that allows police officers to ask about immigration status during stops. That part of the law, which never went into effect because of court challenges, will now immediately be enforced in Arizona."

30. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    128   12:05pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Are you suggesting that a government mandate to buy private insurance is NOT crony capitalism? Please, make that case! I would have to have a single clue why it possibly could be considered so before arguing why it isn't. What, have you actually thought so little about these issues that you think the mandate is just a gift to the insurance companies ? You're the same one who responded to "no lifetime benefit caps, no pre-existing condition denials, no denial of children for any reason," that this was all going to come out of your increased rates. So let me get this straight. The insurance companies pass on all increases in costs (because of no pre-existing conditions etc) to you ? But the increases in covered (healthy) individuals, thats going to be just pure increases in profits for the insurance companies ? And as for the rules about what percentage of premiums paid actually has to be spent on health care ? I'm assuming you think they will figure out how to cheat on this ? Ignorance and fear are no substitute for doing just a little homework.

31. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 250 threads 4,758 comments

    129   12:06pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   KILLERJANE says I don't want it. I pay now 318 for family 4. How in the hell are you doing that? Or should I be asking my self why are the Employers in south Florida charging more than you can get insurance privately and calling it "benefits".

32. thomas.wong1986 Follow Befriend 16 threads 4,426 comments

    130   12:07pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   tatupu70 says There is a large amount of randomness to a person's health. That is the ugly truth. after all the crazy shit.. Keith Richards still lives.. and may well live past 100.

33. KILLERJANE Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 600 comments

    131   12:08pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   People get well with a super healthy nutrition program. A leading heart doc wrote about it recently. This is isn't the article I remember readin but another one. http://www.heartattackproof.com/qanda.htm I have actually witnessed how good an impact it has.

34. KILLERJANE Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 600 comments

    132   12:10pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   CaptainShuddup says KILLERJANE says I don't want it. I pay now 318 for family 4. How in the hell are you doing that? Or should I be asking my self why are the Employers in south Florida charging more than you can get insurance privately and calling it "benefits". I used ehealth and a high deductible. I figure if we really need care I will pay deductible no big deal. Humana. They raised it from last year, was about 283 I think. We are healthy eaters but do have some bad habits, but hey have fun. Not a lot of garbage food, processed or a lot of animal.

35. zzyzzx Follow Befriend (9) 416 threads 4,138 comments Baltimore, MD

    133   12:10pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   CaptainShuddup says KILLERJANE says I don't want it. I pay now 318 for family 4. How in the hell are you doing that? Or should I be asking my self why are the Employers in south Florida charging more than you can get insurance privately and calling it "benefits". My guess: That's their portion and their employer pays the rest and it's per month. I pay less than that per month because my employer pays the rest. If I had to buy a policy for just myself and pay it in full it would easily be $500/month or more.

36. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    134   12:10pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   KILLERJANE says People get well with a super healthy nutrition program. A leading heart doc wrote about it recently. This is isn't the article I remember readin but another one. http://www.heartattackproof.com/qanda.htm I have actually witnessed how good an impact it has. Thinking saying and doing need to line up. lol--he looks a little shady to me. Does he have an infomercial?

37. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    135   12:14pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   We have the worst and most expensive health care in the world. Most Americans agree. I would try anything different at this point. If it fails horribly and rates skyrocket, there will always be a government down the road to return things to the current status quo. Bring it on! I already insure my employees.

38. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    136   12:16pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   KILLERJANE says I have seen the benefits of good nutrition. I agree with this. Exercise too. But these facts don't negate the need for having a good health care system.

39. KILLERJANE Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 600 comments

    137   12:21pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   But it should be 100 per family of 4 per month. I just pay the premium man but never access it, if something rotten happens then ok. I am pretty sure for all the insurance , auto, home, health, umbrella, etc we have paid over 170,000 and only used about 15,000 worth.

40. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    138   12:23pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   KILLERJANE says And tat, you don't know what you haven't tried for a while. I have seen the benefits of good nutrition. I agree too. Good nutrition has lots of benefits. But, I wouldn't pretend that it's a guarantee of anything.

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