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Obamacare is upheld by the Supreme Court

By iwog   Follow   Thu, 28 Jun 2012, 7:18am   17,818 views   298 comments
In Lafayette CA 94549   Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

Whoops.......so much for Shrek's predictive ability. I'm beginning to like Roberts. First he throws out the Arizona law, now he upholds health care reform.

I'm actually pretty amazed by this decision. I hope it represents a real evolution in the thinking of John Roberts and not just a couple of instances of temporary sanity.

Liberal chief justice John Roberts........I like the sound of that!

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1. Homeboy Follow Befriend 13 threads 1,481 comments

   219   9:36pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   FortWayne says Homeboy says It does not say pre-existing conditions can't be used to assess risk, does it? Yep it does, as well as age.... those risk factors are no longer are allowed as criteria for risk assessment. Do you have a cite for that? Because this article in Forbes says they will be able to charge the elderly 3 times as much as young people. I cannot find ANY reference to your claim that age can't be used to assess risk. http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/03/22/how-obamacare-dramatically-increases-the-cost-of-insurance-for-young-workers/3/

2. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   220   9:39pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   drew_eckhardt says In this case the doctor's union (AMA) has gotten laws passed which make it illegal to practice medicine without a license which is difficult and time consuming to get. That eliminates market alternatives like store front nurse stations that can be run by less expensive laborers. Each state has its own licenses so that doctors can protect their own turf. Good point. It's not just UAW thugs that have a cartel in the labor market.

3. Bap33 Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 3,095 comments

   221   10:23pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   marcus says No comprende the Bill of Rights has the rights to speedy public trial, face accusers, not implicate ourselves, stuff like that. The legal system you mentioned. there is no mention of a health care system. so, I was kinda pointing that out. and in closing I made a little humor about how we now have John Edwards type lawyers in the legal system, so we should expect that type of role in a medical counterpart at some point ... just a scummy as an ambulace chasing lawyer, only medically based. All in humor. And I do know it is my writing that falls short, not your comprende-ing. lol

4. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 203 threads 4,405 comments Davis, CA

   222   10:46pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   iwog says I hope it represents a real evolution in the thinking of John Roberts and not just a couple of instances of temporary sanity. Or perhaps it was a bone thrown to the peasants. See we justices, we're going to bend American politics into a pretzel with Citizens United and all the other cases, where get to make sure government serves the interest of the 1%. No limits on influence, no oversight, no accountability, no transparency, that's our goal. As long as what we do makes some fatcat even fatter we love it. You want healthcare, OK we'll cave on that point because it's a very small bone compared to the rest of the Apatasauras walking through the doors you haven't paid much attention to.

5. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   223   10:56pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   God Bless America.

6. Bap33 Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 3,095 comments

   224   11:09pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   http://news.yahoo.com/drug-cartel-rivals-behead-zetas-camera-162505537--abc-news-topstories.html they're here. ready?

7. thomas.wong1986 Follow Befriend 16 threads 4,426 comments

   225   11:50pm Thu 28 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   drew_eckhardt says The pharmaceutical industry works to keep their product cost high in this country, with lobbying efforts to protect their profits like blocking foreign imports from markets which require lower prices since they lack American insurance picking up the tab You trust stuff coming out of China and Mexico ?

8. drew_eckhardt Follow Befriend (1) 2 threads 324 comments Sunnyvale, CA

   226   12:04am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   thomas.wong1986 says You trust stuff coming out of China and Mexico ? I regularly import Italian made bicycle components from the UK where retail prices beat US wholesale (and could do the same for Japanese parts if that was my thing). I wouldn't hesitate to buy US-made drugs from Canada or Europe where they're less expensive.

9. Bellingham Bill Follow Befriend 29 threads 1,486 comments Bellingham, WA Premium

   227   12:06am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Or perhaps it was a bone thrown to the peasants. If this were passed by the next Congress and signed by Romney, we wouldn't even be here, since of course this is the only reform the system is able to vend, a baby step towards universal coverage. Romney is the best argumenter for this plan, at least until the Democrats made it their own. This is minimally intrusive to corporate america (a Republican-designed plan would be even less so I assume). The only part the conservatives don't like is that they've got to pay for the damn thing -- well, it also basically eliminates Medicare Advantage, their failed free-market competition experiment from the 1990s, but that's not going to yield enough savings to pay for the subsidies. People moaning about the loss of freedom to not carry health insurance are the most ridiculous people on the planet right now. 30 million people are going to gain coverage, and even more than that are going to get better coverage.

10. Bellingham Bill Follow Befriend 29 threads 1,486 comments Bellingham, WA Premium

    228   12:16am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bap33 says there is no mention of a health care system. so, I was kinda pointing that out. No mention of airports, either. How we got here is no mystery. We could devolve all this to the states, but it is more efficient and more effective if all the states get on the same page, and that takes coordination from DC. The myth that we are 50 little sovereign states is silly. This is the United States of America. We win wars together, we pay taxes together, and we share the wealth together. E Pluribus Unum! I don't want to be locked into just a few enlightened states that have their act together wrt health care insurance government oversight (right now, that's HI, MA, and perhaps OR). Thanks to ObamaCare, we all get what Romney got passed in MA, the Heritage Foundation-designed mandated public-private system with price supports for people making less than the median wage. It's not going to reduce our high costs of care immediately -- $8000 per capita, twice the global average -- but as more people get access to primary care over time we will see efficiency gains as we catch issues before they become health crises. The previous system was a colossal mess. This one will work, especially if we can find the political maturity to fix what needs fixing with it. I'd reach out an olive branch to the peeps to my right, but I see these people are still insane. Oh well.

11. YesYNot Follow Befriend (2) 15 threads 428 comments Reston, VA

    229   5:09am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Good points drew_eckhardt and errc. Some stats from Esselstyn's book, which I read most of last night... By the middle of the century, Medicare is estimated to consume 40% of US budget The US spends more than $250 billion a yr on heart disease, which is twice the annual budget for all federally funded research (health, defense, basic science, etc.). It's also twice what we spent per year in Iraq. Health care adds $1500 to the price of each GM car Starbucks spends more on health care than coffee beans The next steps seem to be in figuring out how to prevent heart disease & telling people in spite of the cost to various industries.

12. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    230   6:25am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   YesYNot says The next steps seem to be in figuring out how to prevent heart disease & telling people in spite of the cost to various industries. We could go vegan, right? But would most people do it? Mmmmm...burgers...

13. sheltielover1 Follow Befriend 53 comments Danville, CA

    231   6:27am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I guess those of you who LOVE this law will be first in line for the death panels? Can't wait until you get older and your health care is denied and we can say WE TOLD YOU SO! MORONS!

14. Auntiegrav Follow Befriend (5) 7 threads 228 comments Belgium, WI Premium

    232   6:28am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   marcus says Maybe the insurance companies can make it work, and this will slowly but surely evolve to medicare for all, with supplemental policies. Snort! Thanks for the chuckle. Yeah, and maybe car companies will standardize the tire sizes and bolt patterns on parts, so that we only need 1/1000th as many auto parts stores. The point to Capitalism is cash flow. Cash flow represents resource extraction rates. Unless our universe folds back in on itself, there isn't a path from capitalism to healthy people. The insurance and drug companies which own the government make profits BECAUSE they are extracting health from people for cashy money. Instead of "health care", they should call it "sickness enhancement" and bundle it with the USDA, DOE and FDA as the "Future Extraction Department". "We're Your Leadership: Consuming the future so you don't have to." If you want to get an idea of what our leaders think of people, spend a day or two on a modern dairy farm milking 2000 or more cows. They don't "care for" the cows: they fucking milk them to death. Most don't live through 3 years of the process. That's "efficiency" that brings you cheap food so that you have money left over to buy health INSURANCE, not health.

15. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,626 comments

    233   6:30am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   sheltielover1 says I guess those of you who LOVE this law will be first in line for the death panels? Can't wait until you get older and your health care is denied and we can say WE TOLD YOU SO! MORONS! Actually I think Stout is first in line. Joking aside, however, I think you need to take a step back and do some independent research. If you want to argue that health care costs will rise, I disagre, but at least you have an argument. Talking about death panels is Sarah Palin batshit crazy. You were much more likely to get dropped by your insurance company or denied coverage before Obamacare than you will be now.

16. Auntiegrav Follow Befriend (5) 7 threads 228 comments Belgium, WI Premium

    234   6:32am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says YesYNot says The next steps seem to be in figuring out how to prevent heart disease & telling people in spite of the cost to various industries. Since most medical studies turn out to be wrong, the very first step to being healthy is to not do what our medical system tells us to do (for the most part: even a broken clock is right twice a day--unless you're in the military). We could go vegan, right? But would most people do it? Mmmmm...burgers... The two most important things for your food: 1. It needs to have a face: so that you connect mentally with what you eat. 2. You need to kill it yourself: so that you know where it came from and it is nearly alive when you eat it. This is the fundamental part of the living world that human society works so hard to avoid, and their health suffers because of that denial. When you eat vegetables, the face should be the person who grows them, best if it is a face in the mirror.

17. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    235   6:38am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Auntiegrav says 1. It needs to have a face: so that you connect mentally with what you eat. My baloney has a first name, does that count? Your baloney is generally referred to as New Age nonsense.

18. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,071 comments

    236   6:46am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Delurking says The only part the conservatives don't like is that they've got to pay for the damn thing Even more than that, they don't like that it can become a successful policy from the democrats, if they allow it to. There's nothing that bothers them more than a democrat succeeding. The extreme right wing party is acting like children basically because they don't want the middle-right party ("liberals") to get credit for anything. That might lead to reelection. They can't have that. Good to hear from you Troy.

19. Auntiegrav Follow Befriend (5) 7 threads 228 comments Belgium, WI Premium

    237   6:47am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says 1. It needs to have a face: so that you connect mentally with what you eat. My baloney has a first name, does that count? Your baloney is generally referred to as New Age nonsense. I really have learned not to care what something is called so much anymore. If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? Answer: 4. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one. Whether New Age Nonsense or good eatin', I think it is pretty obvious that the people calling it New Age Nonsense are being told by their doctors to "lose the beer gut" and those eating food they know are happy and busy and working to grow organic food (even though they are broke). Speaking of which, I had better get off this addiction box and out to the field. My baloney has pigs ears and eyes and organ meats in it. Probably healthier than the no-fat rice cake option.... ;-) SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM!!! Have a great day, you guys.

20. YesYNot Follow Befriend (2) 15 threads 428 comments Reston, VA

    238   6:50am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80, you often have constructive things to add, but on nutrition, you are mostly going for snark points. What gives? What is your take on nutrition and health?

21. woppa Follow Befriend (3) 2 threads 178 comments Bronx, NY

    239   6:50am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   sheltielover1 says I guess those of you who LOVE this law will be first in line for the death panels? Can't wait until you get older and your health care is denied and we can say WE TOLD YOU SO! MORONS! Wow you are so badly misinformed. There is no sort of provision in PPACA that would have anyone being judged worthy of health coverage. Really sad that so many people actually believe this blatant lie propogated by idiots like Palin and Gingrich to be true.

22. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 247 threads 4,703 comments

    240   6:54am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   woppa says Wow you are so badly misinformed. There is no sort of provision in PPACA that would have anyone being judged worthy of health coverage. Really sad that so many people actually believe this blatant lie propogated by idiots like Palin and Gingrich to be true. Yeah, and you Libs also said it wasn't a Tax, then guess what? IT IS a Tax.

23. YesYNot Follow Befriend (2) 15 threads 428 comments Reston, VA

    241   7:16am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   This pretty much is right on... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/opinion/the-real-winners.html?_r=1&hp The death panels clause was removed from the bill and replaced with truth panels. In order for republicans to get healthcare, they are going to have their eyes held open and will be forced to watch truthful videos.

24. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    242   7:19am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   YesYNot says What is your take on nutrition and health? I really don't have a dog in that fight. My position is basically skepticism. No one seems to know what the "right" diet is, we just move from one fad to the next. We know that sugar is bad. That's about it.

25. ArtimusMaxtor Follow Befriend (3) 803 comments

    243   7:32am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   A fools game. Ask yourself why you never wind up ahead? Like mandatory auto insurance. You don't get ahead there. Same deal. Just another way to keep you without. I'll stay with my people that have some sense of when they are being taken. Your taken here. Keep working.

26. YesYNot Follow Befriend (2) 15 threads 428 comments Reston, VA

    244   7:51am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Fair enough. It seems to me that there is a lot of good information from the last 10 or 20 years, but misinformation comes through... 1) media - generally just looking for good (surprising) headlines 2) small time diet marketers - people with no real academic background just peddling some diet they made up 3) established food industry players spending $30 billion on marketing (a misinformation campaign) every year, because good nutrition would put them out of business 4) USDA nutritional advice. The USDA is not inherently bad, but has a complex agenda and is not primarily focused on health outcomes. The food pyramid should come from the NIH or CDC. In addition to that, people just don't want to admit that convenient, fatty, salty, and sweet food is not good for you. So, they tend to look for excuses, like no one seems to know what is 'right'. It probably will be 40 years between the point where we have pretty much proved what a good diet is and people finally get around to admitting it. Have we passed the point where we know what a good diet is? Maybe the next 40 yrs will tell.

27. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,762 comments

    245   7:56am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   America is done for, it's finished. This is going to ruin our great nation.

28. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,762 comments

    246   8:01am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Dan8267 says A public option is a non-profit agency, whether ran by the government or not, that spends 98% of its revenue on health care and accepts every person regardless of their employment. And their customers keep their insurance when they change jobs. That is what the public option is. It can be ran by a private, non-profit corp. Hell, I'd run the damn thing for a 0.001% commission on the transactions. I'll be a billionaire in a few years and the only work I'll have to do is running a fully automated server running web services and a web portal that I'll write myself. Easiest fucking job I'd ever have. And you'll go bankrupt as soon as people will start buying insurance the day they get diagnosed since they can't be declined, and not a moment sooner. $95/year penalty isn't comparable to a $400+/month premiums. I think, and I really hope I'm wrong, American healthcare is about to go into a huge bubble frenzy in a few years like the housing did recently. We'll see people get really hurt by the costs.

29. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 247 threads 4,703 comments

    247   8:02am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)   FortWayne says America is done for, it's finished. This is going to ruin our great nation. No that happened in November of 2008, this is just the settling of that debt.

30. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,762 comments

    248   8:03am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   CaptainShuddup says FortWayne says America is done for, it's finished. This is going to ruin our great nation. No that happened in November of 2008, this is just the settling of that debt. The beginning of the end.

31. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    249   8:04am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   FortWayne says America is done for, it's finished. This is going to ruin our great nation. Are you referring to a poor diet or ObamaCare?

32. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    250   8:05am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   FortWayne says I think, and I really hope I'm wrong, American healthcare is about to go into a huge bubble frenzy in a few years like the housing did recently. How is healthcare going to go into a "bubble"? Do you even know what a bubble is? What, are people going to speculate in hypodermic needles?

33. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,762 comments

    251   8:10am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says FortWayne says I think, and I really hope I'm wrong, American healthcare is about to go into a huge bubble frenzy in a few years like the housing did recently. How is healthcare going to go into a "bubble"? Do you even know what a bubble is? What, are people going to speculate in hypodermic needles? Supply vs Demand. This bill is increasing demand, but reducing the supply... that surely will increase prices. They are not controlling the costs at all. Than on top of that look at insurance. Health condition, age, gender cannot be used to calculate risk, which means every insurance policy sold is going to rely on calculating worst case scenario. Especially since with this bill the only people who are going to buy it will be those that need it, the rest will pay $95 to IRS and wait till the last minute to get insurance. Young and middle aged people under the age of 55 people will be hurt the most by it. Since their age was the biggest reason for lower costs. This law sold America down the river.

34. Philistine Follow Befriend 485 comments Los Angeles, CA

    252   8:23am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says No one seems to know what the "right" diet is Bkfst: 2 pots of black coffee, half bowl of dry store-brand raisin bran, 12 minutes of patrick.net forums and newslinks Lunch: Can of diet 7 up, half bag of Pop Chips standard flavor, 3 Dunhill cigarettes to wash away the desperation of another day in the office Dinner: Various half-ass Continental cooking experiments, 2 jumbo gin martinis, glass of scotch, 3.5 hours of welsh corgi videos on YouTube.

35. StoutFiles Follow Befriend (1) 24 threads 557 comments

    253   8:30am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   P N Dr Lo R says One of the greatest benefits of the passing of this law is that the era of seeing people who have had to exhaust their savings keeping a loved one in a nursing home for years has finally come to an end. Or they could just declare Kevorkian methods legal. "Mom, you're bankrupting us so that you can sit in this small room all day. You're 80 and lived a full life but you ran out of money. We're going to have to put you down, ok?" Problem solved. Hell, when you put someone down you can even throw a living funeral for them, like they did in "Tuesdays With Morrie". Pretty much everyone wins in this scenario.

36. StoutFiles Follow Befriend (1) 24 threads 557 comments

    254   8:34am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   wthrfrk80 says How is healthcare going to go into a "bubble"? Do you even know what a bubble is? What, are people going to speculate in hypodermic needles? If I sell a product and everyone is forced to buy it, would I sell it at a fair price or a really high price?

37. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    255   8:37am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   FortWayne says Supply vs Demand. This bill is increasing demand, but reducing the supply... that surely will increase prices. They are not controlling the costs at all. Prices rising because of Supply and Demand (i.e. the "fundamentals") is not a bubble. A bubble is when prices rise due to speculation.

38. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    256   8:39am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   StoutFiles says If I sell a product and everyone is forced to buy it, would I sell it at a fair price or a really high price? Again, that's not a bubble. A bubble is not simply "high prices."

39. StoutFiles Follow Befriend (1) 24 threads 557 comments

    257   8:44am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Prices rising because of Supply and Demand (i.e. the "fundamentals") is not a bubble. A bubble is when prices rise due to speculation. A bubble is a trade in products or assets with inflated values. It is not limited to speculation, that is just one classification of bubble.

40. StoutFiles Follow Befriend (1) 24 threads 557 comments

    258   8:45am Fri 29 Jun 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Again, that's not a bubble. A bubble is not simply "high prices." A bubble is not simply limited to speculation. You'd know that if you researched the term.

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