WatchMy Coworker at my new job has been holding down the Patnet Liberal cause here at work. We eat lunch together and debate opposite sides of the political spectrum.
This morning he told me, he's voting Republican ticket across the board.
While some Liberals in Washington are welcomed just to keep the republicans honest, a full Democrat Washington is down right dangerous. He says.
Now yesterday he was accusing me of being a sour grape Republican that didn't like the ruling. So what changed with him?
He actually read what his liabilities in Obamacare will actually be.
He's just been taking Nancy's word for it, that just because the Libs drafted the damn thing then it must be good. Now that he's read it, he realizes his lifestyle as he known it up until now is over. He can't afford to be the person he's always been. He's 62 and there's no end in sight or cap on how much he'll have to pay. Even retirees are required to pay most of their pension to the premiums.
Most will just forgo insurance and not be insured at all and just be taxed.
I was blown away to have this conversation with him after all of our debates we've had in the last three months. Another coworker thought it was a huge win, because he's been paying $1400 a month for his coverage anyway. He's upset that his neighbor who has two Mercedes doesn't have any insurance at all, and goes to the emergency room. So he's keen to stick it to his neighbor, until we explained how this bill sticks it to him as well.
What happens when you are working making let's say 100K a year, and have been paying $1400 a month. Then about mid year you get laid off, then what?
You can't go get it for free, you've already made 50K for the year, sure you've been living hand to mouth with your other bills and obligations, but you've already made 50K. It's not like you'll qualify for free health care now. You'll still be expected to pay premiums that are more than what you get from unemployment which in a month only pays maximum two biweekly payments of $575.
Or of course he could just drop the insurance and pay the TAX at the end of the year.
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Shrewsbury, MA
The dominos haven't fallen. Don't jump to conclusions just yet.
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Santa Cruz, CA
The huge Obama care taxes were designed to kick in in Jan 2013 and beyond, so that Obama would have two terms before anyone figured out how fuct they were.
Now they may know before November.
If he succeeds in getting a few more million people on food stamps, a few more mortgages saved, a few more college loans forgiven, a few more people on 99 weeks of unemployment, he will get the loser vote and everyone who actually PAYS taxes is fuct.
You have a right to your own money, but Democrats do not see it this way. You are only lucky to have a job, and the government created everything so that you could work. You should be grateful and pay them your money.
What is interesting to me is even some losers I know are noticing that Obama and his ilk are not helping the USA. There still exists in many people a dim collective memory that the point of the USA is working and getting ahead, not welfare.
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Oh yeah? Well I ran into some guy yesterday and he said he was going to vote Republican, but since this law was passed he decided to change his mind and vote for Obama. See? That's clearly all the proof I need. You guys are suuuurre gunna' lose in November fer-sure!
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Baltimore, MD
CaptainShuddup says
I think this is the main point here.
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Baltimore, MD
CaptainShuddup says
Of course the TAX will go up every year until the tax is greater than the premium. The first few years the TAX is at low teaser rates.
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zzyzzx says
No need to capitalize tax. There's no way anyone can deny it isn't a stealth tax on middle class Americans.
Considering how bad the government wants money, it appears the Bush tax cuts won't be extended either.
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zzyzzx says
$400 * 12 month = $4800 in insurance costs for an individual policy.
Average income in America is around 43,000 - 45,000.
Even at it's highest after 3 years (3%) the penalty is $1320 for not carrying insurance... that is a lot less than $4,800... and if rates go up and they will you'll see a lot of people simply paying the tax and only buying insurance when they need it.
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Basically, either medical tourism will bloom or, the US doctors and hospitals won't be able to make the mint that they have had, for the past 3 decades.
If NASA can lay off 4K engineers, along with any other company/institute which offshores R&D, I don't see why we can't re-train these fellows to be physician's assistants in record time. The idea here is that medical professionals have some high intelligence which the "layperson" doesn't but they can't convince me that a bunch of scientists & engineers, esp those postdocs earning $36-41K, can't fill the gaps in health care delivery at lower overhead salaries.
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Santa Cruz, CA
Old people on Medicare are not going to use much medical tourism. This is scary to them.
They may be reminded that Obamacare shifts 500 billion from medicare to Obamacare which is for the illegals and deadbeats, losers, etc.
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Losercare
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I saw a guy at the gas station yesterday. He said he was gonna' vote for Obama. Uh oh! Looks like you all are gonna' lose!
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Maybe the courts will pick the president again.
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I cannot wait to see how this new health care is going to look.
Why we are going this same bad road the other countries went?
Do we really need to experience it to figure it out how bad is going to be?
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I haven't read or understand the healthcare bill. But I think its bad because others told me so.
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GraooGra says
lol--you mean cheaper. And with better outcomes. Yes, why would we want to migrate to something better...
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The Death Panel opened fire on my house today. I got out the back with a tablet computer and a bag of potatoes.
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The worst punishment that I could possibly imagine for people voting Republican this year is for Romney to win.
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Boston, MA
I'm still blown away that the media isn't even calling out that Obama lied to us all these years. "No Steffy, it's not a tax"....SCJ: "Well, since WE see it as a tax, we'll accept that it's constitutional"....Obama/Deval Patrick:"Well even if the SJC says it's a tax to protect its constitutionality, it's not a tax"......
It's sad that a comedy of errors by Obama/Pelose"Pass it to see what's in it"/Democrats/SJC/media/voters that supported this shameful piece of shit legistation has made it reality.
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Those stinkin' taxes. I hate how they are used for useless things like paying for freeways, bridges, stop lights, schools, and so on
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AverageBear says
Yeah it has to be a lie. There's no way it could simply be a difference of opinion.
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edvard2 says
yeah except these taxes pay for none of that. They only go straight to the medical industry stocks that those bastard in Washington are heavily invested in, from their inside knowledge. If Martha Stewart was half as guilty as those bastards, she would have burned in the electric chair.
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robertoaribas's website
GraooGra says
you mean like ALL OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES, that cover more of their population, and charge less for health care? those countries?
Conservatives: against everything they don't understand, which is pretty much everything!
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GraooGra says
If only!
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Los Angeles, CA
On paper, the best strategy might be to buy gold and 'hide it' so you can qualify for free emergency room care, and be 'judgement proof' when they bill you 300k for a routine procedure that takes 2 days in the hospital.
Its been happening for years really its called 'asset protection strategy' or something like that. (living will in your kids name, family trusts,etc)
Expect attorneys to make good money helping people 'look poor' on paper to the predatory government.
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robertoaribas says
Ahhhhh! Stop speaking common sense! It hurts my ears!
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robertoaribas says
That's your problem right there. Always comparing the US to a bunch of other countries with even higher unemployment rates and worse economies. We should be comparing ourselves against places with really low unemployment when looking for ways to make improvements.
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PockyClipsNow says
That would be great until you need to sell the gold and get a 1099. Then the paper trail leads right to your door.
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Rin says
Education costs in US are kind of high due to the union demands. So no retraining is likely to occur. And I have no idea if insurance companies have to cover non citizens after this legislation... do they?
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zzyzzx says
But the undeniable fact is that pretty much all of those "other" countries have a higher life expectancy overall compared to the US. That some might have higher unemployment isn't the point.
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Alameda, CA
zzyzzx says
What, countries like Norway (3%), Switzerland (3.1%), Japan (4.5%), Israel (5%), Germany (5.4%)? Sure; which of those countries should our health care system be more like?
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zzyzzx says
So you are saying places like Canada, NZ, Chile, the whole middle east, Sweden, Norway, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Switzerland, etc., etc., etc. have higher unemployment and worse economies than the US? News to me. Are you sure?
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iwog says
It's not even a difference of opinion. The court ruled that it wasn't a tax when they decided to hear the case. The anti-injuction act would have prevented a case against a tax from being heard until the taxes had been collected and paid.
Roberts' opinion said that it "could be construed" as a tax. Further, that he was precedent-bound to consider all possible constructions in order to save the legislation.
I'd call it judicial humility, if his court weren't so fond of 5-4 landmark conservative decisions. Taken in that context, the decision is clearly a balancing act between his desire to undermine federal power, and his desire to preserve the insititutional legitimacy of the court. He's playing the long game.
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zzyzzx says
I don't think this is true. The medical benefit ratio is capped isn't it at around 80% meaning the insurance companies have to spend 80% (or whatever the number is) towards medical benefits or repay the premium back to the individuals.
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bdrasin says
If you are going to have socialized medicine, here is how to do it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore
A key principle of Singapore's national health scheme is that no medical service is provided free of charge, regardless of the level of subsidy, even within the public healthcare system. This mechanism is intended to reduce the overutilisation of healthcare services, a phenomenon often seen in fully subsidised universal health insurance systems.
Approximately 70-80% of Singaporeans obtain their medical care within the public health system. Overall government spending on healthcare amounts to only 3-4% of annual GDP, partly because government expenditure on healthcare in the private system is extremely low.
I think in the US it's at least 16% GDP in healthcare.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/
Unemployment Rate (SA) was 2.1% in Mar 2012
Imitating the failed economies of Europe is not a good idea.
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msilenus says
To put it another way, the court ruled 8-1 that it wasn't a tax. 1 Justice ruled that it was a tax and therefore was constitutional; 4 Justices ruled it wasn't a tax, but was constitutional; 4 Justices ruled that it wasn't a tax and was unconstitutional.
The difference is not that important to me, but if you want to make a big deal out of it then there you are. At least its a tax that is not intended to apply to anyone since the goal is for everyone to get insurance.
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bdrasin says
Greece and Spain have over 20% unemployment, France 12%, Portugal 15%, Ireland 14-15%,
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Alameda, CA
zzyzzx says
Great, we shouldn't try to be like the countries with high unemployment, we should try to be like the countries with low unemployment. Again, which of them has a health care system most like what you'd like to see here?
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edvard2 says
--------------------------
Those stinkin' liars. I hate how they lie to our faces to take over 1/6th of our economy, shred the constitution, to give free healthcare to the useless, on the backs of the working-middle class.
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zzyzzx says
A key principle of Singapore's healthcare scheme is they outlaw things that are bad for your health and everyone is skinny and relatively healthy genetically...
vs. our fat ass US fast food eating / smoking / drinking US culture.
We'll never reach Singapore levels of GDP expenditures with our diet/ US excess culture.
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Alameda, CA
zzyzzx says
I don't know anything about Singapore, but I'm sure whatever they have is better than what we have here, with or without ACA.
"Approximately 70-80% of Singaporeans obtain their medical care within the public health system" - wow, that's far more socialistic than anything in ACA.
Also I see that 10 of 23 hospitals in Singapore are run by the government.