WatchOMG. What a totally offensive, devisive statement. Did the president of the United States REALLY say that? Thats got to down as one of the stupidest things ever said. It even tops Bush's statement: "We're dismantling free market principles in order to save the free market".
Success is continually demonized by the "president". Class warfare at it finest. Right up there with "make the rich pay their fair share". Punative progressive taxes are a classic example of punishing success. Is it any wonder America is in the tank?
This election isn't about Romneys success, its about oB'amam's failure.
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The shining example of free market success was America. This golden success model slowly lost its luster under the relentless attacks of Unions, RINO's and liberal democrats. A never ending blizzard of laws written by non-business people imposed upon businesses large and small has slowly strangled the greatest wealth producing system the world has ever seen.
Free enterprise fosters creativity and inventiveness. It produces new industries, products, services and improves on existing ones. This system has created more wealth and opportunities than any other economic model.
The free market is the harmony of interests and rules of cooperation that underlie a civil society (which liberals detest). It fosters self-sufficiency (which liberals detest). It supports the individual and family (which liberals detest). It is intertwined with private property (which liberals detest).
Oops, the boss is coming, gotta get back to work!
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To the OP ...
If you are purposefully going to misconstrue what someone says, or take things out of context, as a means to attack someone, you are just fomenting misunderstanding. This doesn't help the democratic process at all and only weakens us as a nation. Shameful.
I don't think much of anyone (Romney or others) who would stand behind this attack and believe it is credible or convincing. It's politics and politics only. Zero basis in reality.
Just because you shout loud and sound angry doesn't mean many of us are listening anymore. "Boy who cried wolf" time for the GOP/Romney. (rabble rabble rabble)
If anyone missed Stewart's bit on this ...
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/07/jon-stewart-chips-away-you-didnt-build/55044/
Use your brain and think critically for a second.
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Honest Abe says
There is free enterprise where ideas flourish and elevate the standard of living for all, and then there's the loophole-laden fraud-friendly people-as-selfish-machines game-theory-based monopolistic wet dream that neoliberals and their apple polishers like to clad in the valance of free enterprise or the Free Market.
So which one are you blowing smoke about?
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Honest Abe says
Is ABe really so gullible and intellectually challenged that he believes the president said that ?
Answer: Sadly, yes. (we need a word much stronger than pathetic to describe Abe's critical thinking skills)
rewrew7 says
Thanks.
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david1 says
What does that have to do with Keynesian money policies? You can have aspects of a social market economy while still being fiscally conservative and balance your budget(s). Stop thinking in left-wing right-wing and libertarian vs liberal mindset, then you might actually see that monetary policy wise there is no difference between dems and reps. Also, if you keep citing high unemployment rates in the mentioned countries, they have been steadily improving (and cleared their bad debt), and if someone is counted as employed it actually means that they are above poverty level, unlike in the US where the numbers are fudged beyond sense (the real unemployment % as in the US is likely significantly higher than in Estonia or Latvia).
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Honest Abe says
Walmart greeters have access to the internet ?
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What goes around, comes around.
"Obama senior strategist/adviser David Axelrod chortled about Romney’s firing remark, saying in a Tweet: “Giving Mitt credit for rare moment of candor.”
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Romney's firing remark was more comparable to Obama's "the private sector is doing fine" comment.
This bit though, becoming such a center piece of ROmney's campaign is shear stupidity on their part, for reasons that I won't even explain now.
Let's just wait and see how it works out.
I never do cease to be amazed though by the dishonesty (or off the charts gullibility/stupidity) of so many on this forum.
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Honest Abe says
Where in nature do you see individuals thriving on their own, by strictly their own efforts? More importantly, what in the human condition would prepare an individual for such isolation?
It doesn't exist. From birth until death, someone is helping you. In that first and last chapter, they are literally wiping your caboose and feeding you.
Let's see rugged individualism help you there.
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I hate it when someone goes through line by line with critiques of posts, but you ask so many questions there isn't a better way to maintain clarity.
mell says
Keynes said that private sector decisions can at times lead to market inefficiences, and he advocated for public policy to stabilize demand. I can think of few clearer examples of public intervention than government maintaining full employment in the face of capacity surplus. Germany does not control its money policy, it is a member nation of the ECB.
mell says
Now fiscal conservatism is only defined as balancing the budget? Fine...lets raise tax rates to 90% of GDP and double spending. We would have a budget surplus which you would define as "fiscal conservatism."
And finally...
mell says
There it is. The place Austrians always go.."The observable empirical data contradicts my point because the numbers are manipulated. No I don't have any data of my own, what good would that do?"
Once again:
david1 says
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Ruki says
Phillips Curve?
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Ruki says
Haven't you heard? Reagan proved Keynes correct when he dumped $2 trillion of borrowed money into the economy and bought a recovery. He tripled the national debt.
Is that easily verifiable fact part of your universe or not?
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iwog says
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=9ad
shows the general debt take-on by sector, %-wise.
Blue is consumer, red is biz, green is fed gov't, and yellow is financial sector.
The 1982-84 spike in gov't borrowing is clearly evident and that expansion remained through 1986.
The yellow graph is also interesting, showing the increasing financialization of the economy. That's what Romney was saying about his "good timing".
Mid-80s were just a sea of happy debt floating all boats:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=9ae
shows the pulse in per GDP terms.
For completeness, here's the first graph 1990-now:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=9af
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Mr Gaster in that picture wouldn't sell too much lumber without that gov't road running by his business, LOL.
Republicans are really the densest people on the planet. That's the only explanation.
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Delurking says
Thanks for digging up the specific numbers. It's ironic, but Reagan proved Keynes more clearly and distinctly than any president before or since.
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Mr Gaster really just wants his ass kissed is all. The other stuff is just a handy pretext.
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zzyzzx says
Ah, but Ray didn't build that nice road next to his business that allows people to shop at his hardware store. Nor did Ray build:
- the sewer system that prevents his hardware store from flooding
- the fire department and hydrant system that keeps it from burning down
- the police department that protects Ray from burglary
- the electric system that powers Ray's stores
- the public land on which that electric system and other utilities run without which Ray could not run his business
And as Jon Stewart explained, much to the irritation of republicans, Obama meant "those" not "that".
I.e., Obama was not saying that people didn't build businesses. Obama was saying that business creators didn't build all the infrastructure that is necessary for those businesses to run. That public infrastructure, which makes possible those private businesses, were built with tax dollars and that is why taxes exist, so that the next generation can build their businesses and lives as well.
Jon Stewart then goes on to show how ridiculously identical Obama's and Romney's positions are on the whole private vs. public tax pseudo-debate is.
But hey, why argue against what Obama stands for, when you can argue against an out-of-context misinterpretation of what Obama stands for. You know, like when Romney said he like firing people.
After all, none of you actually believe that Obama is a communist, but you'll promote that idea because you think your neighbors are so fucking stupid they might believe it and then vote for Romney. And that's what this whole thread is really about.
If you're going to argue for one of the two dip-shits running for president, at least argue the real issues. I know it's hard because the two are virtually identical with the slight exception that Romney wants to fuck the middle class harder to increase the rich-poor gap even more. But most of their policies are quite frankly the same.
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http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/07/31/colorado-business-owners-speak-out-on-obamas-business-comment/
Don't forget to eat at Chick-Fil-A soon...and SUPPORT FREE SPEECH IN AMERICA.
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Blah blah blah...we all know what the fuck he was saying...but it doesn't matter. this is the season for taking everything out of context. OB kicked it off with the romney "I like to be able to ....blah blah blah"....
Most 'out of context' quotes takes the election....
Let the games begin.
Dan8267 says
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xrpb11a says
But do you really respect anyone on either side that stoops to those tactics?
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by november everybody will be guilty.
business as usual..
Dan8267 says
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I have one of those just up the street. I eat there because it's the tastiest fast food chicken that won't fry your diet...
the current fiasco has no impact with me, one way or the other...
Honest Abe says
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Chick Fil A isn't getting another dollar from me, but I admit that this homohate foo-fah is excellent business for them.
http://reason.com/blog/2012/05/14/gallup-majority-say-gay-lesbian-relation
The homohate thing is just a retread of Southern / Bible Belt intolerance:
it's bullshit, but goes along well with the rest of the bullshit from conservatives.
"The poll, conducted from June 28 to July 9, found that 22% of white evangelical Protestants favor gay marriage while 73% oppose."
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/lifestyle/religion/poll-shows-divisions-over-gay-marriage#ixzz22LFNDl73
30% of the country is white evangelical and they vote Republican at ~80%.
Retards, every last one of them, but it's great to have 25% of the electorate as a reliable voting bloc, which the Republicans have enjoyed since the realignment of Nixon's Southern Strategy and Reagan's follow-on election in 1980.
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xrpb11a says
Depends if you want this country devolving into a religious nuthouse like Afghanistan. That's what the Christian Dominionist thing is all about.
First they shit on the gays, and I did not speak out - because I was not gay.
Chick Fil A is just a small piece of the Republican social conservative power bloc. Even if 10 million people who think like me stop going there, it's not going to change things for the better, since there are many more conservative idiots in this country than smart people.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
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your making a mountain out of a molehill...
the scene you paint below is simply not attainable given the current constitution/bill of rights.
Delurking says
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xrpb11a says
tell that to gay people who want legal partnerships.
CFA is donating millions of dollars to oppose those civil rights.
It's bullshit and I'm not going to have one penny of my money go for that.
Chicken sandwich isn't worth all that.
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and the gays will shit on them this friday. what goes around, comes around.
Delurking says
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xrpb11a says
the problem is gays are a minority, while christian fundamentalists are a majority in many areas.
this stuff isn't that complicated ya know.
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"The findings also show a widening partisan divide over gay marriage, with 65 percent of Democrats now supporting it compared to 24 percent of Republicans."
wow, talk about being on the wrong side of history. Well done, conservatives, you are driving your party into irrelevancy.
though it's probably going to take a 1929-33 period to get the people back to their senses about how bad conservatism is for America.
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if you want to suppress the first amendment, have at it...
Let me know how that works out for ya....
Delurking says
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too late.
chick-fil-a did not build their business....you did by paying taxes that built the roads and bridges leading to their door.....
Guess that makes you a bigot too....
Delurking says
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I am a private citizen so first amendment does not apply.
I fully support the geezer's right to be a public homophobe but I will not give him my money for him to forward it to advocacy groups I disagree with.
again, this is not that complicated.
Chick Fil A is just a rightwing nutjob corporation. It's a free country, but their advocacy for social conservative bullshit is not something I'm going to support going forward.
I've known about CFA's positions on this -- and even ate there earlier this month, but I've seen the error in my ways with that.
chick-fil-a did not build their business....you did by paying taxes that built the roads and bridges leading to their door.....
this barely parses. For one, Obama did NOT say anything that business owners did not build their businesses, obviously they do.
Obama's quote was saying business owners did not build the infrastructure their businesses depend upon.
Arguing with conservatives is like arguing with 2 year olds. You guys simply can't kick your brain into any sort of ability to understand anything beyond your idiotic talking points.
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you have your head so far up your ass you don't even recognize humor...
do yourself a favor....learn to read.
http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1214413&c=851185#comment-851185
Delurking says
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xrpb11a says
Contrary to popular assumption, the ass is not necessarily the worst place to store one's head.
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Oh? It is?
Try not purchasing a health care plan...
let me know how 'free' that works out to be....
Delurking says
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I'm rubber, you're glue.
credit to HRH
Delurking says
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Delurking says
Interestingly this graph also reflects to a large degree of accuracy the level of intelligence of the population of the states as measured by education, scientific knowledge, mathematical skills, and international testing.
Intelligence makes people liberal and more likely to favor legalizing gay marriage. What a surprise.
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Marriage is not a civil right.
Your argument is blown to hell.
Case Closed.
Delurking says
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xrpb11a says
Actually, according to the Supreme Court it is. In the 1967 case Loving v. Virginia, the Supreme Court ruled that states could not ban or restrict interracial marriages, a common practice at the time that was called miscegenation, as it was a violation of the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment.
As I argue in this thread, the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies exactly the same way to the issue of gay marriages.
Ultimately the people twenty years from now are going to look back at this debate in the exact same way we look back at the 1960s debate over interracial marriages. And those who oppose gay marriage will look as bigoted and stupid as those who opposed interracial marriages. It's the natural progression of liberty and equality.