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How the Elites Built America's Economic Wall

By freak80   Follow   Fri, 20 Jul 2012, 8:06am   3,992 views   63 comments
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"Over the past 30 years, the convergence [of incomes] has largely stopped. Incomes in the poorer states are no longer catching up to incomes in rich states...In a new working paper, Shoag and Peter Ganong, a doctoral student in economics at Harvard, offer an explanation: The key to convergence was never just mobile capital. It was also mobile labor. But the promise of a better life that once drew people of all backgrounds to rich places such as New York and California now applies only to an educated elite -- because rich places have made housing prohibitively expensive."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-19/how-the-elites-built-america-s-economic-wall.html

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1. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (16) 764 threads 7,710 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

   24   8:15pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Ruki says Should doctors be paid as the median nurse makes in the same hospital? Hell no. Once again, you miss the point. Capital is not talent. Nor is management production. I did not say that any producer should take home more than what he or she produced. I'm saying that the wealth non-producers, who are at best overhead, should take home is limited to what the mean producer takes home. Try thinking about what this means, then reply.

2. Peter P Follow Befriend (4) 117 threads 17,655 comments Premium

   25   8:38pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says By "liberal" I simply mean those who are part of the "progressive" movement. They see humans as basically good, with history moving inevitably toward a better and better future (if they could only get those knuckle-dragging conservatives and religious people out of the way). That is a fair description. I am definitely not a liberal because I think humanity will inevitably drive itself to destruction.

3. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   26   9:05pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Peter P says I think humanity will inevitably drive itself to destruction. So do I.

4. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   27   9:11pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   The Original Bankster says Liberalism is simply the tool of what is left of imperialism. It's the 'babylon system' we've been warned about. What? That's a little extreme don't you think?

5. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,571 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   28   9:18pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says The original article I referenced spelled out a double standard inherent in "liberal" cities like NYC, Boston, DC, Portland OR, and SF. "Liberals" claim to stand for equality, opportunity, and "helping the poor", and yet low income folks are totally screwed by the lack of affordable housing in those cities. Environmentalism is used as a cover to prevent new housing from being built, protecting the property values of the "landed elite." I can't agree with this. New home building exploded during the housing bubble. The reason there are ghost towns in Florida and California right now is because home building was extraordinarily easy to accomplish. Property values are a direct result of: 1. safety 2. schools 3. climate 4. income There are homes in Oakland, CA selling for $2 million that are literally several miles away from homes selling for $30,000. The problem isn't environmentalists or building or even rent control. The problem is too many people with money displacing too many people without money. I'm not sure what article you were reading, but it sounds like a typical right wing hit piece. True liberals are not communists. They do not believe in financial equality nor are they hypocrites because they live better than other citizens do. A responsible liberal wants a sustainable economic system that allows anyone who is willing to work a livable wage and reasonable benefits.

6. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   29   10:56pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says New home building exploded during the housing bubble. The reason there are ghost towns in Florida and California right now is because home building was extraordinarily easy to accomplish. True, but much of the new construction was out in the "middle of nowhere" right? Are people going to commute from Bakersfield to good-paying jobs in San Jose? Florida is mainly a retirement home, it's not really a place with lots of high-paying jobs (unless you're into drug trafficking). iwog says I'm not sure what article you were reading, but it sounds like a typical right wing hit piece. True liberals are not communists. The article was an opinion piece from Bloomberg. I linked to it above. I don't think the article was accusing "liberals" of being communists. As far as I can tell, he was accusing wealthy liberals living in their "enclaves" as being hypocritical. I don't think anyone accuses liberals of being outright communists, save for your typical far-right propagandists like Hannity, O' Reilly and Limbaugh. But yeah there's so much "generalization" going on with all of this.

7. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,571 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   30   11:04pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says True, but much of the new construction was out in the "middle of nowhere" right? Are people going to commute from Bakersfield to good-paying jobs in San Jose? Florida is mainly a retirement home, it's not really a place with lots of high-paying jobs (unless you're into drug trafficking). Yes most of it was in outlying areas where land was available to build on, however that's another problem with a city like San Francisco or New York. Where exactly are you going to build? Every square inch of property is already owned, and why build low cost housing when you can easily build high cost housing instead and make more money?

8. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   31   2:34am Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Every square inch of property is already owned, and why build low cost housing when you can easily build high cost housing instead and make more money? If land is expensive, people build "up" instead of "out." More humans per acre means cheaper housing. But zoning restrictions limit density. I guess we Americans don't like living in high-rise apartments.

9. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

   32   7:43pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   wthrfrk80 says The Original Bankster says Liberalism is simply the tool of what is left of imperialism. It's the 'babylon system' we've been warned about. What? That's a little extreme don't you think? no. California has SLAVERY, WIDESPREAD DRUG USE, SEXUAL DEBAUCHERY, BROKEN FAMILY, POLITICAL CORRUPTION, IRREPARABLY DAMAGED FINANCES... sounds a hell of a lot like every failed empire in history. but Californians insist their system is better because they allow gay marriage and they're sad when something bad happens to an Arab.

10. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    33   8:37pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   have you ever thought about what the social effects of leverage are? everyone in California is so debt strapped they can't take any social risks... they MUST bring in that paycheck. They can't lose that job. It's just like Nazi Germany- everyone must conform or face a serious penalty(perhaps death). It's dangerous when you have a whole society deeply in debt AND living frivolously. California is the worst thing that's ever happened to humanity.

11. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    34   8:58pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Wealth is about financial stability, and leverage offers you none of that. It's the ILLUSION of wealth that it provides. It gives the illusion that wealth is distributed in society when in reality: CALIFORNIA IS THE MOST UNEQUAL PLACE ON EARTH. Californicators are starting to catch on.

12. New Renter Follow Befriend (3) 13 threads 2,220 comments San Jose, CA Premium

    35   9:39pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   The Original Bankster says Wealth is about financial stability, and leverage offers you none of that. It's the ILLUSION of wealth that it provides. It gives the illusion that wealth is distributed in society when in reality: CALIFORNIA IS THE MOST UNEQUAL PLACE ON EARTH. Californicators are starting to catch on. The San Francisco Treat The Original Bankster says have you ever thought about what the social effects of leverage are? everyone in California is so debt strapped they can't take any social risks... they MUST bring in that paycheck. They can't lose that job. It's just like Nazi Germany- everyone must conform or face a serious penalty(perhaps death). It's dangerous when you have a whole society deeply in debt AND living frivolously. California is the worst thing that's ever happened to humanity. The San Francisco Treat Dude, I think that Phoenix summer heat has gone to your head. Follow your bretheren to San Diego and enjoy what we in California have to offer.

13. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    36   9:43pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   New renter says Dude, I think that Phoenix summer heat has gone to your head. Follow your bretheren to San Diego and enjoy what we in California have to offer. http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/

14. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    37   9:45pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)   http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/28/10260959-oakland-assesses-city-hall-damage-after-occupy-break-in you Californians are going to go surfing while your state burns. stupid asses. I THINK ALL THE PROZAC HAS GOTTEN TO YOU BRO.

15. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    38   11:03pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   The Original Bankster says you Californians are going to go surfing while your state burns. Another far-right troll going on ignore...

16. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    39   11:05pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (3)   wthrfrk80 says The Original Bankster says you Californians are going to go surfing while your state burns. Another far-right troll going on ignore... another far-liberal nutjob ignoring everything around him.

17. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,571 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    40   5:52am Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says If land is expensive, people build "up" instead of "out." More humans per acre means cheaper housing. But zoning restrictions limit density. I guess we Americans don't like living in high-rise apartments. Well I don't see any lack of cheap housing in Oakland and elsewhere in the SF bay area. It's ghetto property, but that's hardly the fault of liberals. If people would listen to them and raise taxes there would be more resources available to fix things.

18. tts Follow Befriend 2 threads 470 comments

    41   6:15am Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   The Original Bankster says They can't lose that job. This is true of everyone who isn't rich right now in the US. CA's legislature is clearly defective but it has nothing to do with being too far left or right, just good old fashioned corruption and stupidity. Also your posts are becoming so over the top rhetorical I'm starting to wonder if you're really a troll trying to make use of Poe's Law to discredit the view point (left politics baaaaad) you keep espousing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

19. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    42   6:23am Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says If people would listen to them and raise taxes there would be more resources available to fix things. Fair enough, but if the people living there are poor how are they going to afford the higher taxes?

20. thunderlips11 Follow Befriend (13) 52 threads 2,639 comments Premium

    43   8:10am Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   All in all banksters were all just bricks in the Wall.

21. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    44   8:25am Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Hey...teacher...leave those kids alone... (interesting tidbit: those kids (now adults) actually sued Pink Floyd for lost "royalties" they felt they were owed) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4047533.stm

22. New Renter Follow Befriend (3) 13 threads 2,220 comments San Jose, CA Premium

    45   11:12am Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   You'll fit right in. Come, live oThe Original Bankster says you Californians are going to go surfing while your state burns. stupid asses. I THINK ALL THE PROZAC HAS GOTTEN TO YOU BRO. While our state burns? It's 65F and projected to get as high as 79F today. How about in Phoenix where you are? Given your liberal use of all caps I think its you who can use the Prozac. Don't worry of its too expensive for you in the US, just go cross the border and get it in bulk cheap in Mexico.

23. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    46   5:55pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Sure is funny to watch you guys defending Californian politics while you faithfully wait for houses to become affordable. guess what morons: HOUSING WILL NEVER BE AFFORDABLE. The whole Liberal mindset is about locking out most people from the 'freedom' Liberalism promises. Maybe some day you'll realize that, but it's not likely.

24. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    47   6:03pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   New renter says While our state burns? It's 65F and projected to get as high as 79F today. How about in Phoenix where you are? Yeah but Phoenix is a desert for 12 months of the year, whereas California is a desert for only 6-8 months of the year. So there's more vegetation to burn in CA. Sand doesn't catch fire too well.

25. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (16) 764 threads 7,710 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

    48   6:12pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   thunderlips11 says All in all banksters were all just bricks in the Wall. Or better yet, dust in the wind...

26. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    49   7:53pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Yeah but Phoenix is a desert for 12 months of the year, whereas California is a desert for only 6-8 months of the year. So there's more vegetation to burn in CA. Sand doesn't catch fire too well. prophets always emerge from the desert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater

27. New Renter Follow Befriend (3) 13 threads 2,220 comments San Jose, CA Premium

    50   9:42pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says New renter says While our state burns? It's 65F and projected to get as high as 79F today. How about in Phoenix where you are? Yeah but Phoenix is a desert for 12 months of the year, whereas California is a desert for only 6-8 months of the year. So there's more vegetation to burn in CA. Sand doesn't catch fire too well. No argument there, I lived through the big SD fires in 2003. fire to the south, fire to the east, fire to the north, ocean to the west. The sky was red, the sun obscured, the air heavy with ash. Still beats Phoenix in the summer though.

28. New Renter Follow Befriend (3) 13 threads 2,220 comments San Jose, CA Premium

    51   9:44pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   The Original Bankster says wthrfrk80 says Yeah but Phoenix is a desert for 12 months of the year, whereas California is a desert for only 6-8 months of the year. So there's more vegetation to burn in CA. Sand doesn't catch fire too well. prophets always emerge from the desert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater The San Francisco Treat As do illegal aliens.

29. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    52   9:49pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   New renter says Still beats Phoenix in the summer though. Yeah I don't know how anyone can stand that. Even with AC. Who's idea was it to build a big city in the middle of a desert anyway?? Is there some special natural resource there?

30. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    53   10:21pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Yeah I don't know how anyone can stand that. Even with AC. Who's idea was it to build a big city in the middle of a desert anyway?? Is there some special natural resource there? Idealism. It was a abandoned native settlement when the Americans arrived. After that it was a set of irrigation canals made by regular pionner types. They farmed the irrigation canals and lived a sometimes difficult, but generally comfortable life away from all the problems of the civil war, slavery, etc. It wasn't until the 80s rolled around when the Illegal Aliens started arriving in droves and this nice little city, where Frank Lloyd Wright lived for some time, started turning into a shithole similar to California. The heat always acted as a deterrent and honestly the Phoenicians liked it that way. Hot summer, nice people instead of Nice Weather and shit-for-brains people in California. Just like today. Interestingly the native culture that was here was nothing like the Aztecs. They had no ziggaurats for sacrifices, and all we found were a set of simply made canals for agricultural irrigation. Archeologists think they were mainly those who political enemies who escaped the violence of the Aztec empire.

31. New Renter Follow Befriend (3) 13 threads 2,220 comments San Jose, CA Premium

    54   10:44pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   The Original Bankster says The heat always acted as a deterrent and honestly the Phoenicians liked it that way. Hot summer, nice people instead of Nice Weather and shit-for-brains people in California. Just like today. To be fair AZ does have its share of kooks too: http://gosw.about.com/od/sedonaarizona/a/sedonavortex.htm I have to day I do like Flagstaff even it it is a bit too low key.

32. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    55   10:47pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Flagstaff is the capitol of 'White' Arizona. The north of Arizona is similar to Colorado both socially and environmentally. Sedona is a bunch of nutballs, we generally ignore them, they are hippies from California who took too much acid. there are three major cities in AZ: Flagstaff: Capitol of White Libertarian Arizona Tucson: Liberal Capitol infested with Mexican illegals Phoenix: Capitol and centerpoint of the State. Illegal are here but there are major tensions about their presence(Sheriff Joe).

33. Leopold B Scotch Follow Befriend 2 threads 153 comments

    56   12:02pm Wed 25 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says iwog says If people would listen to them and raise taxes there would be more resources available to fix things. Fair enough, but if the people living there are poor how are they going to afford the higher taxes? And since when does redistribution solve poverty? It doesn't work when the Fed does it to us via the banking cartel, or when the government does it via taxes, borrowing and inflation (debt demonetization). You can fix things up, but then what? You've taken from the legit job creating economy and redirected to subsidizing the comfort of economic deadweight.

34. FunTime Follow Befriend (3) 38 threads 801 comments San Francisco, CA

    57   2:29pm Wed 25 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Peter P says That is a fair description. I am definitely not a liberal because I think humanity will inevitably drive itself to destruction. http://stevenpinker.com/publications/better-angels-our-nature

35. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    58   2:46pm Wed 25 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   FunTime, I'm not sure where Pinker gets his numbers. The 20th century was one of the bloodiest in history. True, we haven't seen another war as bad as WW2, but how much of that is because of the fear of "mutually assured destruction" in nuclear war? Greed and Fear still drive everything.

36. FunTime Follow Befriend (3) 38 threads 801 comments San Francisco, CA

    59   4:30pm Wed 25 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I think you'll find him trying really hard to stick to scientific method for his number selection, if that's compelling to you. I've not read the book yet and only heard him interviewed on NPR, so I can't attest to the job he's done. Here's an answer from his website though. http://stevenpinker.com/pages/frequently-asked-questions-about-better-angels-our-nature-why-violence-has-declined Skeptical Questions about Whether Violence Has Really Declined Wasn’t the 20th century the most violent in history? Probably not; see chapter 5, especially pp. 189–200. Historical data from past centuries are far less complete, but the existing estimates of death tolls, when calculated as a proportion of the world’s population at the time, show at least nine atrocities before the 20th century (that we know of) which may have been worse than World War II. They arose from collapsing empires, horse tribe invasions, the slave trade, and the annihilation of native peoples, with wars of religion close behind. World War I doesn’t even make the top ten. Also, a century comprises a hundred years, not just fifty, and the second half of the 20th century was host to a Long Peace (chapter 5) and a New Peace (chapter 6) with unusually low rates of death in warfare.

37. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    60   6:20pm Wed 25 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   True, I forgot about the Mongols...those crazy b*stards. In the future it'll be resource wars rather that religious wars. The Iraq war was only the beginning.

38. New Renter Follow Befriend (3) 13 threads 2,220 comments San Jose, CA Premium

    61   8:25am Thu 26 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   The Original Bankster says California has SLAVERY, WIDESPREAD DRUG USE, SEXUAL DEBAUCHERY, BROKEN FAMILY, POLITICAL CORRUPTION, IRREPARABLY DAMAGED FINANCES... sounds a hell of a lot like every failed empire in history. but Californians insist their system is better because they allow gay marriage and they're sad when something bad happens to an Arab. Here's another one for you Bankster. http://www.patrick.net/forum/?p=1214683 She's not a Californian - yet. I'm sure she'll be put on a bus with a one-way ticket to Simi Valley whereupon her recent audition for California residency will be recreated for the home video market. I'm sure it will sell very well in Phoenix

39. FunTime Follow Befriend (3) 38 threads 801 comments San Francisco, CA

    62   9:55am Thu 26 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   freak80 says but how much of that is because of the fear of "mutually assured destruction" in nuclear war? http://stevenpinker.com/pages/frequently-asked-questions-about-better-angels-our-nature-why-violence-has-declined As long as nuclear weapons exist, one cannot say that we are living in less-violent times, especially since it is inevitable that they will be used at some time in the future. There is no answer to the question of how to compare the decline in actual deaths from dozens of high-probability categories (homicide, war, domestic abuse, and so on) with the increase in hypothetical deaths from one low-probability category – it is, as they say, a philosophical question. But it’s far from certain that nuclear weapons will ever be used again. The 67-year history of nonuse suggests that, contrary to predictions that blundering politicians and trigger-happy generals have always been on the verge of unleashing nuclear weapons, the likelihood of their being used is probably very small. Of course, even an event with an extremely low odds, when the probability is exponentiated over enough years, becomes extremely probable, but that curve has to be set off against the one representing the probability that the Global Zero project will succeed and that nuclear weapons will go the way of chemical weapons, human sacrifice, and slave auctions – also a low-probability event, but one which has a nonzero chance of happening in this century.

40. mell Follow Befriend (5) 57 threads 1,324 comments Premium

    63   3:23pm Sat 28 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   The Original Bankster says wthrfrk80 says The Original Bankster says Liberalism is simply the tool of what is left of imperialism. It's the 'babylon system' we've been warned about. What? That's a little extreme don't you think? no. California has SLAVERY, WIDESPREAD DRUG USE, SEXUAL DEBAUCHERY, BROKEN FAMILY, POLITICAL CORRUPTION, IRREPARABLY DAMAGED FINANCES... sounds a hell of a lot like every failed empire in history. but Californians insist their system is better because they allow gay marriage and they're sad when something bad happens to an Arab. The San Francisco Treat WTF has sexual debauchery to do with this? You mean people are actually open about their sexuality instead of taking a hike in the Appalachian mountains? Social liberalism is not the issue, in fact it is an asset, it's crony capitalism and financial liberalism (or better laissez-faire) that is wreaking havoc.

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