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Super-Rich Hold Up To $32 Trillion In Offshore Havens

By tovarichpeter   Follow   Sun, 22 Jul 2012, 10:20am   978 views   10 comments
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/22/super-rich-offshore-havens_n_1692608.html

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1. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,564 comments

   1   11:44am Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Interesting that the actual report isn't available on line, just the press release. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/21/offshore-wealth-global-economy-tax-havens Why do you suppose the report isn't available to examine the details and methodology? The story assumes that all offshore accounts pay no taxes at all anywhere. That pretty much destroys any credibility of any kind. Of course people pay taxes on offshore accounts. The vast majority of people with offshore accounts pay taxes on them. True tax evaders are not nearly as common as the governments who would like all of their citizens money in easy reach would have you believe. Anyone that does NOT have a good portion their money out of reach of their home country is foolish. It would be interesting to see who funds the tax justice network, but that's not available either. Private wealth held offshore represents "a huge black hole in the world economy" Probably the most silly thing I've ever read. The so called tax havens are not part of the world economy? The banks in places like the caymans just bury the money in the sand? They don't invest it around the world? The only hole is the lack of ability of the oecd countries to seize their citizens money at any time for any reason if it is offshore.

2. Peter P Follow Befriend (4) 117 threads 17,655 comments Premium

   2   4:25pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Thank God the $32T is concentrated in a few hands otherwise there will be hyperinflation! The problem lies in moral hazards created by bailouts. The fact is that much liquidity is created. What are you going to do? If you give it to the rich there will be inequality. If you give it to the poor they will drive up prices of everything.

3. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (17) 785 threads 7,970 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

   3   8:19pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki says There isn't even $32 trillion dollars in existence. You're forgetting about leverage.

4. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (17) 785 threads 7,970 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

   4   8:22pm Sun 22 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   It's complex, it's unregulated, and it ought to be of concern to world leaders that its notional value is 20 times the size of the world economy. Welcome to the new reality of speculation. You see, since people aren't producing things, money can't chase real goods and services. Thus, money now have to chase pure financial products, vaporware. There simply isn't enough stuff for all the money to chase. At least keeping all this money in the vaporware market keeps it out of real markets where it would drive up the prices of food, shelter, medicine, etc. The only solution that doesn't destroy the world economy is for the isolation and destruction of this "money" when those derivatives are destroyed. Let the phoney products, the phoney wealth, and the phoney money all die together, leaving real products, wealth, and money untouched.

5. tts Follow Befriend 2 threads 470 comments

   5   7:34am Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   bob2356 says The story assumes that all offshore accounts pay no taxes at all anywhere. That pretty much destroys any credibility of any kind. Not really. Its already well known that corporations often don't pay any taxes on profit via accounting tricks that abuse international laws and offshore bank accounts in other countries. Its not that much of a leap to believe that the super rich could do the same thing. This has been an open secret for years, available easily to anyone serious about researching the subject instead of sticking with their online echo chambers for "news". What is more surprising is the degree with which they've been able to get away with it. If the report is "merely" off by a few trillion it still works out that they're essentially hoarding a sizeable portion of the world's GDP to themselves.

6. Elwood P Dowd Follow Befriend 27 comments Clinton, MA

   6   8:05am Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf I'm guessing this article doesn't have much relevance to Americans, at least on an individual level. Failure to file the form linked to above could get you in a great deal of hot water. And the IRS/Treasury has gotten better at tracking this, so the odds of getting caught are only going up. Now, for individuals in the UK (and don't forget, the Guardian is a UK paper) and elsewhere matters are doubtless different. Is the concept of "Tax Exile" you used to hear about rock stars doing still valid? I know Led Zeppelin's members dd it, and I think so did some of the Rolling Stones. But that was all in the early '70s. Haven't heard much about it lately. But "Tax Exile" has never applied to Americans. Individuals are taxed on world-wide income and then get a credit for taxes paid against US tax liability. I'm a bit surprised at tts's graphic, in the sense that there's apparently no corporate equivalent to TD 90-221, presuming Apple is domiciled in the US. (And it is, I think?)

7. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,564 comments

   7   12:49pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   tts says Not really. Its already well known that corporations often don't pay any taxes on profit via accounting tricks that abuse international laws and offshore bank accounts in other countries. Its not that much of a leap to believe that the super rich could do the same thing. They were deliberately very vague on the point, but the article is talking about tax evasion more than tax avoidance, although they are against tax avoidance also. Tax evasion is illegal everywhere, so called tax havens won't stand up for you if you are breaking the law. Tax avoidance is legally avoiding taxes by taking advantage of the tax laws. If countries don't want tax avoidance then they should fix their tax rules to not allow it. The entire piece is very much a political statement designed to further someone's agenda. The bulk of the article is simply about not allowing anyone to have offshore accounts at all. Total capital controls on all citizens. Why would the center for tax justice be so interested in this? Again I wonder who financed all this?

8. Nobody Follow Befriend 10 threads 274 comments San Jose, CA

   8   1:07pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki is an ignorant idiot. Wonder if he is a low income Republican.

9. Dan8267 Follow Befriend (17) 785 threads 7,970 comments Boca Raton, FL Premium

   9   6:15pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki says No I am not. Leverage does not create money. Leverage is debt. Debt is money. Unfortunate, but true. However, debt is called credit today to make it sound like a good thing.

10. tts Follow Befriend 2 threads 470 comments

    10   7:43pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says Tax evasion is illegal everywhere, so called tax havens won't stand up for you if you are breaking the law Who said they're breaking the law? The law has been shaped to fit their needs after decades of lobbying, they don't need to break the law, its all perfectly legal now. What they're doing _should_ be against the law and once upon a time it was, but that is a ethical perspective that often gets shot down played as "ivory tower-ish" at best for some reason by the bankers and politicians. Often taxing the rich more and closing their legally entrenched loopholes is called "class warfare" by the bankers, rich, and politicians.