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The rationale for Republican policy for tax

By Nobody   Follow   Mon, 23 Jul 2012, 1:33pm   2,764 views   33 comments
In San Jose CA 95117   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

I don't understand how low tax rate would lead to more tax revenue and
more jobs.

But here is my list of their (Republicans and T-baggers) rationale.
1. More money will be available to make an investment.
2. More investment money = more productivity.
3. More investment money = more jobs.

Well, my macro-economy book states that the jobs are created because
of the demand for goods and services. So how can an increased
productivity create more jobs? If one person can output more,
why do you need to hire more people. If anything, it sounds
like you can get away with less workers. Thus less jobs.

Ok, and if you have more money floating around, it seems it will cause
inflation. It seems that is the case with the gasoline price. Sure,
the demand for oil is higher. But money game is also a part of the reason.

Some people say that some government people are getting paid more than
they should. That is impacting our budget. OK, then let's raise the
tax rate for whoever is making more.

It seems whenever we need to cut the spending, the education takes the
first hit. Where would we be in the next few decades if our education
system keeps getting lower? Wouldn't we then really lose tax revenue,
cause most of the high paying jobs will be shipped overseas?

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1. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   1   8:40pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected   Are you questioning Reaganomics? How dare you! Heretic! Everybody knows that mass layoffs and tax cuts for the rich create prosperity for all.

2. Peter P Follow Befriend (4) 117 threads 17,655 comments Premium

   2   10:20pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected   Nobody says I don't understand how low tax rate would lead to more tax revenue and more jobs. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. See Laffer Curve. Then again, Economics is a trendy branch of astrology.

3. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   3   11:08pm Mon 23 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Bueller...Bueller...Bueller...

4. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   4   5:19am Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected   Peter P says Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. See Laffer Curve. Then again, Economics is a trendy branch of astrology. The Laffer Curve speaks to taxes, not investment. Capital investment would follow an inverse Laffer curve with higher taxes causing rich people to invest more. This is an era of record amounts of capital being available for investment. Trillions sit languishing in federal bonds that earn close to 0%. Increasing the amount of ready capital will have no effect whatsoever. Since this is the entire Republican economic platform, it's doomed to fail.

5. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   5   6:19am Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   iwog says Increasing the amount of ready capital will have no effect whatsoever. Since this is the entire Republican economic platform, it's doomed to fail. Absolutely. There are far too many investment dollars chasing far too few good investments. The problem right now is lack of demand. "Supply-side economics" isn't going to fix the current economic crisis. I say this as an investor, not as some union thug that wants more money from his employer. Supply-side economics was an antidote to stagnation in the 70s. It isn't working now, despite what Mittens and his army of mind-numbed AM radio robots tells everyone.

6. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,498 comments

   6   6:28am Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Peter P says Then again, Economics is a trendy branch of astrology. That's pretty insulting to astrology.

7. Nobody Follow Befriend 10 threads 274 comments San Jose, CA

   7   1:59pm Tue 24 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki, Ruki says Your macro-economy book was written by a Keynesian moron. Tell us, does it even mention Say's Law anywhere in the damn thing? Yeah, but you can also use Say's law to explain that insufficient demand for labor can cause unemployment. "That is supply had exceeded demands in some segments of the economy." per Wiki. Look it up, before you speak. Say's law simply states that there should be a balance and equilibrium in production of all sectors of economy. So if one market hoards all the money, how can you have a balanced market? The Say's law states that hoarding is irrational. But our current economy is enabling rich people to hoard all the money. That is irrational according to Say. With the money they hoard, they invest into commodities like gasoline to increase the price. The demand itself does not explain the recent event with the gasoline price increase. So the rich can hoard more money from the 99%. How can you call that an equilibrium state? What are the corporation doing with the money they have earned? Keep it in the secret overseas' account? How is that good for our economy, if US companies, like Apple, keep the money out of US market? Ruki, you must be super smart to be able to call Keynesian moron. Last I checked your comment, I was convinced otherwise. Now in your own word, I invite you to explain to me how the jobs are created. And back it up with the fact. Here is the question to many of you, then, do you really need the lower tax rate to make your investment? I am not convinced that only reason that you make an investment is because you have lower tax rate. I am more convinced that you make investment, cause you have a chance to make money. Can someone sight the data pointing to the fact that there are more money invested before and after lower tax?

8. Nobody Follow Befriend 10 threads 274 comments San Jose, CA

   8   1:14pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki says That's why the alternative is called Supply-Side Economics. Demand is its own supply and vice versa. Ruki, you don't really care to read about Say's law, do you? Ruki says Jobs are created when business investment demands them to be. An investor wants to spend $$$ to expand a widget factory or build a stadium, jobs are created. If there is a high enough capital-labor ratio, then unemployment goes down and wages then start to go up. The investor demand does not support the employment. Only the demand for the products and services do. Say and Keyne both agree on that there should be a balance or equilibrium between supply and demand. The demand is not of investor demand. I see you are not a good business person. Let's say you have tons of supply which you can't move. And you are going to produce more, just because investors demand it? That is called hoarding according to Say. It is bad for business, cause you need to think about storage cost, lost revenue, and etc. The investors want the profit. They don't care or demand that products and services produce more. They only demand that their investment returns more profit. Don't complicate the motives for investors. No, the capital to wage ratio has nothing to do with employment. It is profit (i.e. demand and productivity) and labor ratio. No, liberals say that tax rates influence people's behavior. Let's say, if you are married with two children making $100K a year, 10% in tax deduction will make a huge impact. They will spend it. Adding it to the economy. If you are making $100M a year, 10% tax deduction does not make a huge impact on your spending behavior. That 10% deduction will be hoarded. Say's Law thinks it is irrational and ultimately bad for the economy. But when the highest tax rate was 91%, we were able to build the highway system which we enjoy to this date, and education system which is deteriorating rapidly now. I don't care what rate the tax is, as long as we can maintain our investment into our future. If you are right about one thing. This could be it. More investment into our education should enhance our employment and future business. No, business is holding off hiring, not because of the tax, but because there is a weak demand in our current economy. The tax rate has been the lowest for the last several years. So your rationale does not make sense. Besides, if there is a demand, I will be forced to hire more people regardless of the tax rate. You may be a student, but you are missing fundamentals from the Say's and Keyne's. It is the Republican rhetoric, and on the surface, it sounds good. But their policy only creates offset in the economy in which Say calls it hoarding. And you should know Say's law says it is a bad thing.

9. Peter P Follow Befriend (4) 117 threads 17,655 comments Premium

   9   1:21pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Privatize the highway system!

10. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    10   1:23pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki says Tell us, does it even mention Say's Law anywhere in the damn thing? Why would it? Textbooks don't deal in theories that have been proven wrong.

11. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    11   1:32pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Nobody says The investor demand does not support the employment. Only the demand for the products and services do. Say and Keyne both agree on that there should be a balance or equilibrium between supply and demand. I believe this view is correct. For any business to be successful, there must be both 1) sufficient investment, and 2) sufficient demand for its goods/services That's probably true on the "macro" scale as well. Right now we have a huge number of unemployed people who. 1) want goods and services 2) want to work to help produce those goods and services But they can't, because the economy is caught in a "catch 22"...there are few new jobs because there's little new demand, and there's little new demand because there are few new jobs. It's a structural, systemic problem that some individuals are trapped in. Sure, some of the unemployed are deadbeats that don't want to work. But not all of them.

12. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    12   1:59pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki says 1) Say's Law is not a theory. Hence why it has the word "Law" after it lol--that's not how it works. Ruki says 2) It has been proven over and over again. Hence #1. Could you please show me any time it has been proven correct? Especially in a larger, non-barter, modern economy. Ruki says 3) Keynes' bullshit has been disproven repeatedly and never proven at all. I'm not aware of any economy that really followed Keynes so I'm not sure how it has been disproven. Please share when it has been disproven. You claim it's been disproven repeatedly, so it should be an easy exercise.

13. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    13   2:08pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Ruki says There's plenty of demand in Africa for food and other essentials Wrong and wrong again. Demand requires the means to pay. Ruki says Because if they did, then they would be admitting that they are out to 'nail the rich' and not for the benefit of the economy, but out of mean-spirited spite and envy. Since they don't like their true motivations being exposed like that, they thus bullshit otherwise. Ahh. The conservative manifesto. It can't be that liberals realize that when the wealth disparity reaches current levels, the economy stops functioning. See 1929. The fact that people believe all this class warfare bullshit just shows how effective the Koch Brothers propaganda machine really is. Ruki says Which further proves that liberals are out to nail the rich out of spite. They KNOW that revenues from them will fall when taxes are raised. Obama even admitted to it back in 2008. So, it is really about stopping people from becoming rich out of jealousy and envy. You make me laugh. Yes, when the top 5% has less money, the receipts from them will be less.

14. HEY YOU Follow Befriend (4) 334 threads 922 comments

    14   3:09pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   No one's buying my products but with deregulation, subsidies & tax cuts I will expand my business & add new employees. ROFLMAO

15. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    15   10:45pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected   Ruki says 1) Say's Law is not a theory. Hence why it has the word "Law" after it. 2) It has been proven over and over again. Hence #1. 3) Keynes' bullshit has been disproven repeatedly and never proven at all. Therefore your statements that 'textbooks don't deal in theories that have been proven wrong' is, well...bullshit. Do you even care how ridiculous you sound? Say's Law is certainly a theory and a theory disputed by Nobel Prize economists. Regardless of whether you agree with Keynesians or not, claiming it is an undisputed law is total crap. It's intellectually corrupt but unfortunately quite typical of the way you see the world. Likewise, Keynes' "bullshit" seemed to work well enough when Reagan tripled the national debt from $1 trillion to $3 trillion back when a trillion dollars was real money. Furthermore FDR cut the unemployment rate in half in two years AND increased the GDP to pre-depression levels by 1936. For some reason you're always afraid to comment on these facts and instead simply go on repeating the same bullshit as if it were scripture from God. Why?

16. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    16   10:52pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Ruki says No, The 'Republican' economic platform is to incentivize the holders of said ready capital to invest it in higher-risk investments (which entail hiring amongst other things) than treasuries. Wow really? Like Bush did? Funny how that resulted in a near depression. What went wrong?

17. Buster Follow Befriend (7) 22 threads 325 comments

    17   11:05pm Fri 27 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki says Which further proves that liberals are out to nail the rich out of spite. They KNOW that revenues from them will fall when taxes are raised. Obama even admitted to it back in 2008. So, it is really about stopping people from becoming rich out of jealousy and envy. I think you are reading the tea leaves completely wrong here. I have not heard of many trying to stop anyone from becoming rich. Nor do I see expressed jealousy and envy. What I do see and hear are people expressing the desire for the playing field to be FAIR. It makes absolutely no sense that mega millionaires/billionaires are paying total tax rates in the low teens or many corporations literally paying ZERO tax while wage earners are paying double, triple and more than these ultra low rates because all of their income comes via payroll and not capitol gains. You are playing the victim card here...oh woe is the billionaire. Nothing in reality is even close. People in America love the rich, and most even aspire to join this club, they also simply want to pay taxes at the same rates that everyone else does. Jeesh.

18. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    18   6:46am Sat 28 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki-- Still waiting for all the examples you spoke of. I'll remind you: Ruki says 2) It (Say's Law) has been proven over and over again. Hence #1. Ruki says Keynes' bullshit has been disproven repeatedly I'm sure you'll be posting those examples soon, right?

19. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,498 comments

    19   9:51am Sat 28 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki says Nobody says Let's say you have tons of supply which you can't move. And you are going to produce more, just because investors demand it? If your investors DO demand it, then yes...you will. They call the shots. It's their money. It's their risk. WTF are you talking about. In a public corporation investors are called stockholders. The only shots they call is whether to keep or sell the stock and sometimes voting on company issues like mergers. In a private corporation most of the time the investor is a bank. Even when a private corporation is controlled by venture capitalists like bain the investment company rarely concerns themselves with day to day operations. Why in the world would an investment company order more production of unsold goods? You can't book it as sales until you sell it. You would just have to pay to produce and store it. Makes no sense at all.

20. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    20   10:50am Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected   Joke: Ruki says Apple took a risk when it made iPads an put them up for sale. Punchline: Ruki says According to your twisted reality, iPads should never have existed because it made no sense to pay to produce and store the damn things before they got sold.

21. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    21   11:23am Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected   Ruki says Yes, that's correct. The punchline of REALITY that you communists here on Iwognet can't deal with. Calling anyone here a communist simply makes you a right wing clown. How come after all these years you still haven't figured it out?

22. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    22   11:31am Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   iwog says Calling anyone here a communist simply makes you a right wing clown. Pretty much. Hey Ruki, did you know that the Amish have a "communist" way of life? So do most families and households. Communism is a "family value." How else could children survive without 'from each according to his/her ability, to each according to his/her need'? It's just the communism doesn't work on a large scale. Heck even the Ruskies and Chi-coms abandoned it. Communism (as a political ideology) isn't exactly expanding anymore. The Cold War is over. Time to stop with the red-scare bullshit.

23. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    23   11:33am Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Ruki says and your penchant for throwing red herrings out there when your shilling has been exposed for what it is gets tiring. Who here has uttered a single sentence in support of communism or ANY communist ideals? One of your basic reasoning flaws is that you confused taxes with communism. It's a great example of you and other Republicans warping the language to create a brand new reality. In your fictional world, the nation is under siege by evil commies who hate your freedoms and want all the rich people in camps. It's insane but you honestly believe it, which makes most of what you post simply another part of the clown show.

24. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    24   11:44am Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected   Ruki says To deny that the Left is not filled to the gills with communists is akin to denying that the sky is not filled with stars. And you all know this, too. That is why you vehemently react to being called out for what you are -- you KNOW it is damning. Almost time for the nets and padded truck?

25. Nobody Follow Befriend 10 threads 274 comments San Jose, CA

    25   4:51pm Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says Why in the world would an investment company order more production of unsold goods? You can't book it as sales until you sell it. You would just have to pay to produce and store it. Makes no sense at all. Bob, I was just mocking Ruki's stupidity. If you read my prior posts, you will get it. As you said it, it just does not make sense. That's why Ruki is replying to your post. Don't worry, we just have one more Republican sucker who really does not understand how the economy works. I see how Republicans get to people with no common sense, logic or proper education.

26. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,498 comments

    26   6:12pm Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Nobody says I was just mocking Ruki's stupidity. If you read my prior posts, you will get it. As you said it, it just does not make sense. That's why Ruki is replying to your post. aha. Ruki can't focus anyway. He was talking about "investors" ordering producing more of a poor selling product , then he switched to r&d and new product introductions. Anyone that doesn't know the difference between production and new product roll out has a very tenuous grasp of how business works at best. I also like the part about the stockholders/investors ordering more production by electing corporate officers. That's certainly a clearly though out premise. Not. Nobody says I see how Republicans get to people with no common sense, logic or proper education. I am reminded of Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets. Someone asks how a male author could write about women so well. He replied that he started with a man and removed intellect, intelligence, reason, and logic.

27. bob2356 Follow Befriend 3 threads 2,498 comments

    27   6:14pm Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ruki says To deny that the Left is not filled to the gills with communists is akin to denying that the sky is not filled with stars. From where I stand in the middle I see about an equal number of communists to my left and fascists to my right.

28. thomaswong.1986 Follow Befriend 15 threads 2,851 comments

    28   9:28pm Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Nobody says I don't understand how low tax rate would lead to more tax revenue and more jobs. But here is my list of their (Republicans and T-baggers) rationale. 1. More money will be available to make an investment. 2. More investment money = more productivity. 3. More investment money = more jobs. You Live in San Jose and never saw this happen in Santa Clara County! Surely your joking! Our County (Santa Clara) is prime example of Billions invested from the top global RICH making new industries, jobs, and higher collections on taxes.. Rich ... VC... Start Ups ... Industry Growth and new jobs! Over the past 10 years you had other states and other nations trying to copy the success of Santa Clara County !! Today, the state and fed govt are pretty much killing our success we created over the past several decades... You cant be serious asking this question an yet live in Santa Clara County!

29. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    29   9:56pm Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Commies to the left of me, fascists to my right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

30. The Original Bankster Follow Befriend 4 threads 342 comments Phoenix, AZ The Original Bankster's website

    30   11:27pm Mon 30 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   when did this site turn into the International Communist Convention? used to be good, now its shameless liberal shit.

31. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    31   12:08am Tue 31 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   The Original Bankster says when did this site turn into the International Communist Convention? Never. When did those voices in your head start telling you commies were hiding in your closet? The Original Bankster says used to be good, now its shameless liberal shit. As I've detailed many times, I'm not really a liberal. The Republican party has simply degenerated into childishness and stupidity.

32. Nobody Follow Befriend 10 threads 274 comments San Jose, CA

    32   1:25pm Wed 1 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   thomaswong.1986 says Surely your joking! Our County (Santa Clara) is prime example of Billions invested from the top global RICH making new industries, jobs, and higher collections on taxes.. Rich ... VC... Start Ups ... Industry Growth and new jobs! Wong, I am not sure if you are blind or simply refused to see that Santa Clara County is still struggling to make ends meet. The shortage in the budget is forcing the school teachers to take furlough days. The social services is closing down more facilities that save kids from abusive parents. Like I said, if our education is not impacted, I don't pretty much care what you do with the tax. (So I see how Republicans are getting the socially blind vote, hence their rationale, "ignorance.") What you also don't see is something I see living in Silicon Valley. There are more talents out here, thanks to the PAST generous investment for education by the tax payers. There are many colleges and universities out here that are attracting multiple talents out here in the Silicon Valley. So I personally would like to thank our past investment by the government. Yet, at the end of the day no matter how much investment or talent, I can only keep my jobs, when our products sells at profit, like Bob said. Wong, I see you have no idea how Silicon Valley first started in semiconductor business. If it wasn't for the US government buying up the expensive semiconductor, the semiconductor business couldn't have taken off in Silicon Valley. You can only see a story like Facebook fetching investment money etc. on the news, unless you read a History book. You should try reading some times. It might make you a little smarter. Then again, ignorant will always be ignorant.

33. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    33   1:36pm Wed 1 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   iwog says When did those voices in your head start telling you commies were hiding in your closet? He's probably referring to EvilMonkeyBoy.