http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2012/0730/How-Latin-America-is-reinventing-the-war-on-drugs
How Latin America is reinventing the war on drugs
By tovarichpeter Follow Sun, 5 Aug 2012, 10:57am 2,088 views 44 comments
In South San Francisco CA 94080
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New renter says
Anyone?
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I hate that throwing up & hangover from marijuana.
STOP! Wrong drug.
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G'Day, Why not Coca Leaves? I don't see a problem. In South America, they've been chewing it for 8,000 years. Only after the 'west' got involved, with the purification, did it cause trouble. We should be able to buy a few grams. It's the individuals who purchase 100's of kilograms that cause trouble.
http://www.rt.com/news/bolivia-coca-cola-ban-770/
Regards, Omerde
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New renter says
Obviously you never watched reefer madness.
Just joking. The war on drugs, like the war on anything, was a knee jerk political reaction to a real problem that, like all political solutions, was more about doling out lots money that solving the problem. The war on drugs would be a total joke if it weren't so expensive and ruining so many people lives.
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New renter says:
New renter says
Does anyone here on PatNet feel the war on marijuana is justified? No trolls please, just hard data to back up the assertion the marijuana deserves to be a schedule I narcotic? Personally I have never seen a bit of evidence other than anecdotal and heavily flawed and discredited published research. What am I missing?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller?
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Is selling dope for rec use against the law? yep
has it been against the law for your entir life? yep
is smoking dope for fun against the law? yep
did you start smoking dope before the legal age to smoke anything? yep
so, lets keep this real, ok? You are suggesting that a law be removed because so many dope smokers ignore the law ... right?
That is stupid.
Well, lets see, would you agree that most every good job in America demands a non-dope smoker hold the job. Wont the next step be the removal of such laws that "target" poor helpless dope smokers? Or, better yet, will more of them end up on "disablity" like we see on the welfare rolls now? Yes, that is correct, the welfare scum qualify by reason of disability because they are dope smokers. Great idea.
What a disgusting world you dope heads wish for. One where RJ Reynolds is forced to pay for the welfare medical system because cigareets cause cancer, and Camel is not allowed to use Joe as a marketing tool because teens like cartoons, but you want to have dope legal -- something you accessed without any marketing tools from Reynolds, and you started as a teen without any help from Joe Camel .... and now, I guess health care costs from dope smoking are not that big of a deal?
Alot more negro people in the inner-city are smoking crack or meth than smoking dope. How many white middle-aged hippys have to start smoking crack and/or meth inorder for that law to come under fire??
Liberalism is a mental disorder. Smoking dope is obviously one of the most common ways to catch it.
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Wait a minute, you're for a continued ban on marijuana because "it's illegal" but you're for freedom from extra taxes/settlements on tobacco companies? If it was a health issue at stake, one of these drugs causes cancer, the other has no definite ties to that. One of these puts thousands of people in the hospital each year for lung disease and kills many of those. The other is actually prescribed by doctors to treat certain health problems. I'm all for staying within the law, but at some point you have to switch on your brain and say "wtf is wrong with this picture?"
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Bap. You never bothered to ask WHY is it illegal in the first place?
That is stupid
A disgusting world? I live in reality. The reality is that people that use marijuana seem to be using it regardless of the silly, expensive, big and intrusive into ones personal lives and health government tells them they should or shouldn't be doing. Its pretty tough to pull the "the government is doing it because they care about your health" card here, because that's quite obviously not the intent.
The disgusting world is the one you want to continue to force innocent people to live in. The neverending war on drugs world that is bankrupting humanity both financially and morally. Bad laws like these give power to the gangs, which creates mass violence. Bad laws like the ones you support, put innocent people into prison cells for inordinately lengthy terms. They put innocent people into harms way. They keep sick people from easy access to safe, clean, and effective medicine. They make the so called land of the free, one big open air fucking prison, police state, domestic terrorista hell hole where people are forced to live in fear of persecution from the very government that is supposed to be protecting their liberties.
Marijuana prohibition laws hit the books in the 1930's. They were lobbied for by william randolph hearst and the dupont family, because those crony capitalist pigs didn't like the idea of real capitalism and competition. So they used the government as a tool to squash the competition. These racially loaded laws were born of a time when things were dire, the first great depression, and harry aslicker the racist, statist dictator, buddied up with news mogul Hearst to spread their propaganda.
“By the tons it is coming into this country — the deadly, dreadful poison that racks and tears not only the body, but the very heart and soul of every human being who once becomes a slave to it in any of its cruel and devastating forms…. Marihuana is a short cut to the insane asylum. Smoke marihuanacigarettesfora month andwhat was once your brain will be nothing but a storehouse of horrid specters. Hasheesh makes a murderer who kills for the love of killing out of the mildest mannered man who ever laughed at the idea that any habit could ever get him….”
"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."
Sounds like little dick white guys that can't get laid, blame it on negros taking all their white women. Ironic that the same people that feign to champion freedom and small government and personal responsibility, feel that it is the role of the federal government to dictate what the citizenry puts in their body. Moreso, when the sam people likely lap up sugar by the spoonful. Sugar subsidized from the labor of working mericans who may or may not wish to enjoy a taste of some high test dope at the end of a long days work. Sugar that is more addictive a substance then marijuana. Sugar that causes more mental and physical harm when consumed, relative to marijuana (marijuana doesn't actually cause ANY harm, ironically, it has multiple medicinal properties, while sugar is consumed by virtually everyone, running around hopped up on that dangerous substance, which has zero nutritional benefits and uncountable negative health effects)
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errc says
nope. It has been against the law, and was against the law, while each of the dope-heads on here started smoking dope before they were of age. Living at home, sneaking around, breaking the law, smoking dope, and ruining their minds.
Proof of ruined minds? Just read the dope-head's post before this one.
no excuses. It was against the law the first time you put it in your body. No excuses.
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errc says
why would the input of a dope-head have merit? A mind that has been altered by drugs thinks a law against mind altering drugs is bad ... no shit?!
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Bap33 says
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Bap33 says
Actually, to a smart person, a law that is completely ineffective serves no purpose, and should be reconsidered.
A smart person would consider the cost of keeping the law in place, in the case of marijuana this includes all of the police time, court time, and prison expense, versus the costs of making it illegal. IMPOSSIBLE to rationalize keeping it illegal on a financial basis.
Bap33 says
Would you agree that most good jobs can't be done drunk? So by your same logic, alcohol shold also be illegal.
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your logic is being applied to border secruity as we speak.
imagine how fast cars on the freeway would go if people agreed with you.
"smart people" would never - ever - begin smoking ANYTHING, espicially an illegal substance. Right?
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robertoaribas says
alcohol is legal. right?
dope is illegal. right?
both have been in that state for your entire existance, and the existance of everyone on this board. right?
no excuse, vato, no excuse.
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by "in that state", I mean, in the state of being illegal.
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What about those on this board that are over the age of 75?
What do you say to them? What to the 99 year old that legally smoked hash in a nyc hash bar prior to the federal prohibition in 1937?
Those people would say, you are incorrect, grass hasn't been illegal for their entire existence.
As if it matters, I don't smoke anything. Not sure why you can't just discuss the issue, instead you jump straight to making it personal.
Its not an issue of being smart or ignorant (I'm going to guess you didn't even take the time to read the article in the link, rather just started making a bunch of noise about how you worship the state and that the state dictates what is right and what is wrong, in your world)
It is the duty of any free person, to scrutinize all laws. If they are unjust, it is your duty to disregard them
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errc says
more wrong you could not easily be.
p.s., you made it personal, as you directed your blithering directly at me. go check. you will note my first few entries was generic. Good day.
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Bap33 says
Don't be afraid to show your true colours bap. Its obvious, you are a big government statist. You want prolific, wasteful spending, on nonsensical crap that harms a free society.
You want the government to tell people what they can, or cannot do with their bodies. Be careful, yours is a slippery slope
First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they went after the pot smokers, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a pot smoker
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out forme.
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Bap33 says
No I am saying it is supposed to be removed, because this is supposed to be a free country-ya know where the individual chooses.
What is it about freedom, that so many despise?
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8 of the 22 posts in this thread are from bap.
You sure seem to strongly support the government and all the resources that the system wastes fighting a losing battle, making this a big open air police state.
The only thing you keep repeating is that it should be illegal, because it is illegal. Well, why is it illegal in the first place?
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Bap33 says
Bap33 says
you are the most racist fat old POS ever bap33.... go join the kkk
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Bap33 says
Bap33
Yes, let's "keep this real"
My concerns regarding the legality of marijuana are:
Personal freedom
Wasteful spending
Government hypocrisy
Public health
Personally I do not use marijuana. Whether you believe me is your choice. I do not however feel the need to restrict others from enjoying it if they choose.
Bap33 says
I agree with preventing abusers from performing jobs in which use on the job presents unacceptable risk to themselves or others. If the marijuana is consumed in a responsible manner (in moderation, in an appropriate environment) then I don't see it as being any different than those same employees having a glass of wine or a beer. To demand the employee abstain on their own time under those conditions to me is a gross violation of personal rights.
The illegality of marijuana puts thousands of people through a very expensive legal system into very expensive prisons with at best questionable benefit to society. Our government spends billions on the war on drugs much of which is spent against marijuana. How's that been working out for us? 60 years later has there been ANY progress? Legalizing marijuana will remove yet another grossly wasteful government spending program.
I have read all that I can on the rationale for keeping marijuana illegal and frankly it baffles me. The arguments for prohibition are IMHO laughable. Marijuana is classified as as schedule 1 drug, the strictest one of all:
Schedule I substances are those that have the following findings:
The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.[23]
No prescriptions may be written for Schedule I substances, and such substances are subject to production quotas by the DEA.
Yet the active ingredient THC can be prescribed by a doctor as Marinol. That alone should disqualify marijuana from this classification.
The exact same arguments can be made for tobacco and alcohol yet both are quite legal for adults in this country. Why not marijuana?
Regarding the last two points on the schedule 1 criteria. There is an enormous amount of controversy regarding the medical applications of marijuana. The government itself has shown marijuana has medical benefits
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3358713/?tool=pubmed
Doesn't this strike you as a prime example of government hypocrisy?
Funny, I'd have thought a nice conservative person like yourself would recognize the movement for marijuana legalization for what it is. A response to wasteful government spending, attack on personal liberties, and hypocrisy.
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New renter says
it is against the law. that is the difference. no excuse
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robertoaribas says
your momma's a racist, you little greasy bitch. (Patrick, when you erase this, do understand I was just returning "in kind" to roberto gonzalez deltoro perez sanchez aribas. I don't know why he went all 5th grade on me)
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you call me "vato" in the first reply to me, you racist POS... you are the lowest class racist scum ever, and I remember your racist rants years ago on here...
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New renter says
you are correct. 100%. I'm actually more libertarian than anyone would realize about personal activity. BUT, the very first step would be the complete removal of all public paid services for anyone that uses any drugs, including alcohol, or smokes cigareets. If people were able to exersize their right to enjoy sniffing coke, that would be fine as long as they were allowed to rot into the sidewalk when their mom quit buying their food. As long as there is access to the public dole by those who "choose" to use any drug, I will continue to see dope as an illegal substance that should not be a habit for anyone - after all, it is illegal.
There are 9 zillion laws I hate. Smog laws, speed laws, helmet laws, criminal rights laws.
If a person gets canned for being listless, lazy, and unreliable - then they remain fired. But, if they are a dope smoker, they get disablity. That is not right, in my opinion.
The money getting spent is not due to any law, it is due to law breakers. Read that again. Once more. Thanks.
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robertoaribas says
"vato" is not a negative term you silly ass, it means "buddy" or "pal". Hardly a racial slur, you puke.
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plus, I am not fat. I am stout, thick, wide, kinda buff, hairy, brown, but not even a wee bit fat.
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my first reply to roberto in full:
Bap33 says
but robert said:
robertoaribas says
question: does smoking dope effect memory or perception of reality?
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Bap33 says
yes, and I call you fat racist trash with precisely the same familiar friendly connotation... You mean your friends don't use that term all the time? it's quite popular out here!
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lmao .. that was pretty funny
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Bap33 says
And if you actually read my posts I am not advocating the abuse of marijuana. Nor do I encourage breaking the law. What I am doing is calling into question the morality, logic and apparent lack of benefit to society behind the laws.
Bap33 says
Your logic escapes me. You are amicable to the legalization of marijuana but only if all publicly funded drug abuse programs are revoked?
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Bap33 says
Which is precisely my point. If the recreational use of marijuana is not illegal then no law is broken and the money is not squandered. Rehab programs are another issue entirely, legalization would actually weaken the argument for rehab, not strengthen it.
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if there is no law against petty theft I just grab some gum and a candy bar as I walk out of 7/11
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Bap33 says
This is a poor analogy.
In your scenario of legalized theft you are clearly depriving the storekeeper of goods. How are people legally using marijuana depriving anyone of anything?
You may think that marijuana users are depriving you of your tax dollars in publicly funded rehab programs. Who's to say such programs will exist if marijuana is legal? They exist now because its illegal.
If however the government recognizes the scientific data which indicates marijuana is NOT physically addictive AND does not promote health problems such programs may end up defunded. You of all people should appreciate that.
I have directly worked with many heavy users of marijuana. A few were COOs, VPs and directors of SV biotech companies. From what I have observed it has not hurt their ability to work or advance in their fields. Indeed one or two attributed much of their success to marijuana claiming it helped them relax and approach problems from different perspectives. I don't know of a stronger endorsement than that.
Seriously Bap33 do you really believe your posts or are you simply playing devil's advocate?
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The thing I don't understand with someone like baps stance on this is, if you feel that way, wouldn't you still look at the war on drug users as a failure to date? Shouldn't you be suggesting that they ramp up their efforts? Harsher penalties? Dismemberment for those bastards that smoke dope?
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errc says
The cartels already do this and worse. Looking at a historical analogy so did the Purple Gang, Capone's gang and many others during prohibition. Most of that violence was fueled by the highly profitable sale of illegal liquor. Guess what happened after prohabition was repealed. Thats right, the violence stopped. There was no money in it anymore.
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New renter says
I agree. But, I am seldom asked my opinion before the left-lawyers in Sac law down another law. Are you?
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Bap33 says
New renter says
Yes.
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Bap33 says
You know Bap33 its not the "left-lawyers in Sac" you should be concerned with here. This is a federal policy started by that hippie Richard Nixon despite the results of HIS OWN COMMISSION recommending the decriminalization of marijuana.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Marihuana_and_Drug_Abuse