WatchI worked in a hospital where a man shot his wife, then himself, in the ICU. This man in Ohio wasn't thinking rationally. In addition to his family, my heart goes out to the staff of the ICU.
I read some comments on the interwebs... some people blame his actions on finances - but Medicare doesn't cover 100% of the cost of the hospital, Doctors, labs, rehabilitation... We're talking thousands of dollars in unpaid costs.
This has nothing to do with Obama, although of course haters are blaming it on him and some scholar blamed it on healthcare reform. Since that hasn't taken effect, and even if by some stretch of the imagnination it had taken effect, it would reduce out-of-pocket costs and give less of a reason to kill his wife.
This is a case of a man who, for whatever reason, became distraught and committed an act designed to end his wife's pain & suffering. Unfortunately, his still-alive wife, the workers at the hospital, the other family members visiting their loved ones, and this man's family are the ones paying the price.
Follow
Befriend (5)
31 threads
2,246 comments
Premium
Sad story - I saw it briefly before but haven't yet seen any confirmation as to motive.
IF the motive was to end her pain and suffering, an advance healthcare directive would have been a better choice, but not everyone thinks of that in advance. I haven't seen any mention of the caliber or bullet type, but obviously whatever he used was too small. Credit where it's due, hospitals excel at expensively prolonging the deaths of people who would be better off left alone, e.g. "brain incapacitated and partially destroyed by bullet" means "unlimited billings on a perma-coma vegetable, CHA-CHING!!!!"
Follow
Befriend (25)
413 threads
6,981 comments
Saint George, UT
elliemae's website
curious2 says
Obviously he wasn't thinking clearly. However, an advanced directive is useless if the family/poa disagrees with the patient's decision - in most cases, the hospital/doctor errs on the side of who will sue.
The patient won't sue if his wishes are honored and he is allowed to die; the family, on the other hand, can (and will) sue and the case will be settled. Happens often.
Hospitals rarely make the decision about the patient's care, it's the physician, patient & next of kin. Hospitals (in most cases) don't become involved, they're merely the place where everyone is being treated.
I forgot to mention that the physician who spoke with the patient & son in the case of the hospital where I worked was devastated by the situation. ICU staff & doctors aren't used to seeing traumatic blood, brains on the walls & floors, etc.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
I am a proponent of the right-to-die. I believe that assisted suicide should be legalized.
Healthcare issues are creating so many distortions in the market that I rather have a government-run universal system. Of course, we will also need a parallel private system.
Follow
Befriend (3)
23 threads
130 comments
Minneapolis, MN
Peter P says
I agree. Bring on the beer and Beethoven and let me go when I'm ready. To be surrounded by the people I love and still in my right mind -- that's how I would choose to leave this world.
Follow
Befriend (5)
31 threads
2,246 comments
Premium
elliemae says
Increasingly, the physicians are employees of the hospital corporation.
Also, even conscious patients are routinely ignored. An acquaintance who is a newly minted/indoctrinated hospital physician told me that when a patient says "just let me die" the physicians say "that's just the pain talking" and sedate him. Another acquaintance told the story of being taken to a hospital and saying he didn't want anything his insurance wouldn't cover; his instruction was ignored and he got a bill over $100k for things his insurance wouldn't cover. But, when someone is actually left to die _against_ their wishes, I have seen falsified records to make it appear they had a DNR. It goes on and on.
Next of kin can be a different story, parents have trouble letting go of their kids obviously, even when the "kids" are now adults and the situation is clearly hopeless. Other times a relative can be corralled by a team of doctors and may tend to defer to the people in white coats, cling to any shred of hope, misinterpret ambiguity, etc. The whitecoats don't want to say 'there's no chance' so they say 'there's little chance' and the relative may misinterpret that as a cue to say 'there's still hope.'
Follow
Befriend (25)
413 threads
6,981 comments
Saint George, UT
elliemae's website
curious2 says
There's a difference between "just let me die" and a patient who has a life-ending condition withdrawing permission to treat. If a patient is in intractable pain, saying “just let me die” is an indication of untreated pain and of course they’re going to medicate the patient. If they don’t medicate him, that’s cruel.
Patients with terminal conditions have the option of choosing not to treat their condition – but if they call 911 or go to the hospital, they will be treated. That’s because hospitals aren’t designed to make people comfortable while they die, their mission is to treat patients. If patients choose not to be treated they’ll be discharged home, or to a hospice inpatient unit or nursing home where they can receive comfort care.
curious2 says
Yes, but they still have the ability to treat patients in the same manner as if they were independent contractors (except they have to answer to their bosses for their decisions). In fact, many tests and procedures aren't done without patients first undergoing less expensive tests in order to save money.
curious2 says
Unless the patient’s insurance is managed care (hmo/ppo), much of the care is not preauthorized. Even managed care doesn’t have every procedure & test preauthorized. When a patient enters a hospital, the doctors will do their best to treat the patient with the tools that they have available. They don’t know the cost of the tests, what insurance will cover and what the patient will be responsible to pay. Much of the time, this will be determined after the patient is discharged and the bill is sent to the insurance company. So saying “don’t do anything the insurance won’t cover” pretty much means nothing to the doctors. In fact, much of the time doctors are chastised because they kept the patient too long and did too much, not the opposite.
There’s a huge disconnect between the billing department and the clinical department. Doctors don’t know that the aspirin they prescribed cost $6.00, because it was prescribed by an MD, entered into the computer system by a unit clerk, doled out by a pharmacist, and administered by an LPN who is supervised by an RN who is working at the direction of the physician in a room that is professional designed, cleaned & disinfected by union staff, contains expensive medical equipment… All of this is figured into the cost of the pill – and if the patient “just wants to die” he shouldn’t be there. He has other options.
curious2 says
It’s damn hard to look a patient/family in the eye and say “there’s no hope.” Patients with stage IV hospice who have been on hospice for months still have hope that a cure will be found…And we don’t have a crystal ball – there’s always hope.
Reality is another story. Doctors are scientists whose job is to treat patients, and it’s difficult to let them die without trying everything. It might not provide quality, but the patient might have a little more time if they treat their condition. It’s the doctor’s duty to give patients their options, then allow them to make an informed choice.
curious2 says
Me, too. Records shouldn’t be falsified.
Follow
Befriend (5)
31 threads
2,246 comments
Premium
elliemae says
Sometimes the patient is the problem, other times the patient is the victim. In the case of the guy who "had insurance" and only later found out what that really meant, the issue was deception by the insurance company. They deceived him into believing they would cover him. His biggest injury was a broken wrist, and he had some scrapes, all of which could have been treated by a local doctor or nurse practitioner. The accident itself was his fault, he was riding his motorcycle on a winding road with some loose gravel and fell, but risks like that were why he had been paying for medical insurance every month. Police and ambulance arrived, the ambulance was required to bring him to the nearest hospital.
But, I do feel genuine sympathy for the actual doctors and nurses trying to deal with hospital emergency populations. Years ago I saw a documentary that followed Harvard med school grads. One went into emergency care, and all the alcohol-related injuries convinced him that the U.S. should prohibit alcohol entirely. (Perhaps if he had studied history instead of medicine, he might have remembered that Prohibition had been tried and turned out to be a bad idea.) Another program featured a morbidly obese alcoholic who, tired of killing himself slowly, decided to accelerate the process by stabbing himself in the abdomen with two kitchen knives. Failing at everything including suicide, he missed his vital organs and didn't realize that sepsis takes time, so he persuaded himself that "God wanted him to live." But, somehow God couldn't get the knives out of his abdomen, so the guy phoned 911. The emergency department spent probably $200k removing the knives so the guy could return to killing himself slowly with alcohol and overeating. Trying to save people from themselves can be a tough and frustrating job, and the emergency doc in the Harvard group seemed to be suffering from the strain: obese himself, and a smoker, working long hours for low pay. (His pill-pushing classmate had much easier working conditions and made a lot more $.)