Diet, health, and health costs


By YesYNot   Follow   Tue, 7 Aug 2012, 11:05am   3,459 views   40 comments
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Americans spend a ton on medical expenses and have poor health. This has been documented over and over. Many developing countries are eating diets more and more like the standard american diet with (relative to their previous diets) lots of meat and processed fast food. They are starting to see more and more 'diseases of affluence.'

Two diets becoming more popular recently are the whole foods vegan (WFV) diet and the paleo diets. Both diets shun sugary drinks, white buns (do some degree), and omega six fats. Paleo diets shun carbs across the board, and you lose weight eating a high protein high fat diet. WFV diets shun fat. No (or very limited) extra fat (oils) is added during or after cooking. Carbs make up about 70 to 80% of total calories, and you tend to lose weight by eating until you are full whenever you are hungry.

Dr. McDougall is an example of the whole foods vegan crew. Other doctors/scientists extolling virtues of similar diets are/were, Pritikin, Ornish, Esselstyn, Barnard, Campbell, fuhrman, and Lisle. McDougall did a test with Blue Cross Blue Shield in 1999, and participants saved 44% of medical costs in the first year by reducing the need for all sorts of medicines for diabetes, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. Mackey (CEO of Whole Foods) is now on board, paying for employees to try the diet under McDougall's supervision. Ornish is the most famous for controlled studies on reversing heart disease with diet. Esselstyn did an uncontrolled study reversing heart disease in a number of patients.

On the opposite side of the protein & fat versus carb scale are the paleo / Atkins style crew. I don't know as much about this side, so may get things wrong here. It started with Atkins. Now, Robb Wolf & Loren Cordain are probably the two most famous paleo guys. These guys stick with the calories from fat and protein (from Atkins), but focus on nutrient rich organ meats, lean meats, and preferably natural grass-fed animals. Gary Taubes, science writer, wrote Good Calories Bad Calories and Why We Get Fat, is basically advocating an Atkins diet and cutting out carbs as much as possible. The Weston A Price foundation is promotes another Atkins similar diet.

Diet has come up in a number of other threads. I thought it would be fun to see what type of diets people on Pat.net are following & how they are doing.

Personally, I was convinced to try the WFV way based on a number of reasons, but seeing Forks Over Knives recently tipped the scales for me so to speak. In the first few weeks, I still craved meat and dairy here and there. After that, it's been very easy to follow. Food has been cheap. I've upped my fresh fruit and veggie intake dramatically. I've felt full, light, and energetic. Coffee is no longer necessary, so I have a couple of cups of black tea each day. I've been dropping about 1.5 lbs / week in a pretty consistent way. For reference, my BMI is now about 24. My blood pressure was not high when I started, but it has come down about 10 mm Hg over about a month.

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  1. KILLERJANE


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    1   11:13am Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    I have low blood pressure, coffee is good for me. 2-4 cups a day black.

  2. CaptainShuddup


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    2   11:53am Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    YesYNot says

    Americans spend a ton on medical expenses and have poor health.

    I spend dick and have great health.

    SO perhaps you answered your own question.

    When I was a kid, patient took a regiment of Drugs 1.0 to cure what ever ailed them.

    Now people are prescribed Drugs 2.0 to be taken for the rest of their life, or until their Liver fails, which all new drugs seem to place the patient in danger of.

    Diet and exercise is still the best way to defeat diabetes.

    I have a diabetic keyboard player, that I do cession work with from time to time. He had a job with excellent benefits, and was on insulin and all kinds of pills. If he looked at anything that had even a hint of sugar, he would get deathly ill. He couldn't eat anything. He lost his job, and went on an involuntary diet, and didn't have the money to take his meds.
    He lost a ton of weight, and started eating when he ate anything that came his way. Though never poorer in his life, he never felt better.
    He eats practically anything now, and it doesn't phase him.

    Same thing with another friend on blood pressure meds, he lost his insurance. Someone told him to take a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar a day, he did and hasn't had an episode since then.

  3. YesYNot


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    3   12:23pm Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    ^ The 'being poor' diet has always been good at fixing the 'diseases of affluence.'
    Apple cider vinegar is supposed to ironically lower your acid level (renal acid load) through metabolic processes.

  4. bob2356


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    4   1:01pm Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    I spend dick and have great health.

    You also have great luck. Keeping in shape and eating well will lower your odds of getting sick, but anything can happen at any time. If something does happen you will go running to the doctor and take your meds just like everyone else.

  5. APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch


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    5   2:04pm Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    Same thing with another friend on blood pressure meds, he lost his insurance. Someone told him to take a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar a day, he did and hasn't had an episode since then.

    That's an astounding claim. You heard this directly from your friend, the hyptertension victim?

  6. Quigley


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    6   2:26pm Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Beware anecdotal evidence! It's used by hucksters selling you fraudulent products! Sure that lady your friend's neighbor's poodle's manicurist knows took that supplement and was miraculously cured of cancer, but that's not real evidence.
    Then again, with scientific studies, care must be taken to find out how they did it (double blind test or open reporting?), how large the sample size was, if there was a control used, and if the interpretation of the results is valid or just speculative hand waving!
    It can be really difficult to find Truth! But, it's worth finding.

  7. errc


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    7   3:10pm Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Anecdotal evidence can be useful data. Conduct a scientific experiment on yourself, and see what works. Different people react differently to different food.

    On my own journey, I've found that avoiding sugar has worked best for me. Especially the sugary drinks, so outside of the occasional beer, the only thing I drink is water. Now I don't have much a taste for those juices and drinks anymore, especially the artificially sweetened crap. Water is very easy on the budget as well.

    I think its important to define food for yourself. I don't eat for sport, its just a means of fueling my body. So I eat a lot of animal proteins and fats, as they are the most satiating and nutritious food fuels for my buck. I eat what's in season and local, with produce,,,,as best I can. Avoid grains and sugars like the plague.

    After a year of eating like this, I've shed most of all the extra fat I was carrying (which was a bunch). The dentist didn't have to do much of anything at my last cleaning, and I've regained my 20/20 vision

    When I'm poking around the interwebs, I search for paleo recipes, as that is what my dietary inputs most closely resemble (I don't think its as similar to atkins as the OP suggests). However, using the term diet confuses people, because I did lose a bunch of weight, and people associate diets with fads or temporary changes. Its just a way of life.

    Three women in my family went vegetardian for over a decade, and after seeing such marked improvements in my health, they all re-incorporated meats one at a time. All have noted improved health, and just a general sense of feeling better. Why wouldn't they, now that they're back to eating bacon

  8. YesYNot


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    8   4:02pm Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    errc, Thanks for posting. I saw a few of your other posts and was curious about the full story. Do you have a lot of energy. Do you say feel like going for a walk or jog after work or sitting down? ^vegetardian? Fruedian slip or just feeling a little defensive?

    There's no such thing as a double blind diet study. Also, there are a number of reasons that effects of diet (I'm using the term to describe what you eat not a weight loss effort) on health are poorly understood (1) not much money in it relative to other health treatments (2) hard to study (people lie & monitoring what they eat is hard) (3) the body is too complicated for A is good / B is bad type solutions. But that does not mean that diet has no impact on health. It just means that you will not hear much instruction from doctors throughout your life. When you show up complaining about x,y,z in mid-life, they might ask you to try exercise and dietary change, but will quickly write you a script.

    Personally, I think that either the paleo or whole foods vegan diets would work for most people as far as losing weight. It's more complicated than carbs make you fat or fat makes you fat. If you are eating very few carbs, you are in ketosis & eating a little more carbs will make you fatter. If you are eating very low fat whole foods, then you are getting plenty of fiber and eating more carbs does no harm. In that case, eating more fat makes you fatter. Somewhere in the middle of the fat / carb extremes, there is a land of crappy fats (good for preserving potato chips and crackers, but bad for you), refined carbs (sugar and white flower), and little to no veggies. That area, ironically thought of as a safe middle ground, is likely to make you fat.

  9. jhall


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    9   4:23pm Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    errc says

    All have noted improved health, and just a general sense of feeling better. Why wouldn't they, now that they're back to eating bacon?

    Mmmmmm. Bacon.

    My diet is low carb (but I'm not giving up beer!), plenty of yogurt, eggs, meat, and as much fresh stuff as I can get. In the winter lots of stews, soups, root vegetables. No coffee, just tea. My chronic health condition doesn't bother me a bit, but I could lose a few pounds. I know, the beer...

  10. futuresmc


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    10   6:19pm Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    YesYNot says

    ^ The 'being poor' diet has always been good at fixing the 'diseases of affluence.'
    Apple cider vinegar is supposed to ironically lower your acid level (renal acid load) through metabolic processes.

    Actually this isn't true anymore. Being poor used to mean not eating regularly and thus loosing weight and the health concerns associated with overeating. Being poor today means eating low nutrient foods, so some of the poorest people end up obese but malnourished, which gives you the diseases of poverty AND affluence at the same time.

  11. HEY YOU


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    11   11:53pm Tue 7 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Pig Out
    http://queentije.hubpages.com/hub/Factsabouteatingpork

    "A retrovirus lives in all pork cells and this viruses lives through the heat that we cook in! so we eat our tasty meat ,and guess what goes inside our body? You got it, a retrovirus!"

  12. YesYNot


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    12   5:56am Wed 8 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    futuresmc says

    Being poor used to mean not eating regularly and thus loosing weight and the health concerns associated with overeating.

    Good point. Being poor in the US usually means having enough money to eat McDs and get fat. Rice & beans, potatoes, lentils, oats, etc. are still cheaper, though. So, even in the US, if you have a pot and a stove, it isn't just being poor that is the problem.
    If you get calories from grains, legumes, and potatoes and get nutrients & flavor form greens and spices, your grocery bill will be small and you will be healthy.

  13. bluhat55


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    13   7:39am Wed 8 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    I do the Crossfit/Paleo diet lifestyle that's now becoming popular. I used to only be able to do CF once or twice a week, I would be wiped out and my recovery time was measured in days. I switched to a full on paleo diet 3 months back with the help of a nutritionist who was skeptical and thought I was crazy by cutting out grains/beans/breads/carbs.

    3 months after being on paleo, I've gone from 18.5 BF% to somewhere around 14%, I'm 36 and able to keep up with more fit looking 26 year olds. My recovery time is measured in hours now where I frequently exercise vigorously 2-3 times a day. (i.e. Yesterday I rowed on the lake at 5:30AM for two hours, for lunch I did a CF of 2 mile run and 2k row in 23 minutes, after work I played sand volleyball for 3 hours and then went swimming in Barton Springs pool before bed...This is not an uncommon thing for me)

    tl;dr= A paleo diet changed my life ... fuck corn

  14. thunderlips11


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    14   12:18pm Tue 23 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected  

    bluhat55 says

    tl;dr= A paleo diet changed my life ... fuck corn

    WORD. I tried going USDA/SAD/Food Pyramid for one month and lost a pound - probably water weight. Never felt so tired, irritated, and miserable. And for the first and only time in my life, I lost hair; it came out in clumps.

    Nutritionists are really just "Bro Scientists" with a better vocabulary than the average Gymhound.

    Nir Barzilai, a scientist at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine has this to say about health and living longer about a study on 300 Ashkenazi Jews, average age 100:

    The most important thing we've found is that most centenarians have a lot more than average H.D.L. proteins, the good cholesterol, in their blood. Also, they had a lot more of them when they were younger, because their children have a lot more than their peers do. Also, size matters with the protein molecules. Eighty percent of the children of the centenarians had larger than average high density lipoproteins.

    ...

    The most common thing this group had is that they did not reveal any particular lifestyle secret for their own longevity. When asked specifically, none has exercised. None was a vegetarian. Not a single one ate yogurt throughout his life.

    In fact, 30 percent were overweight. Some smoked. The fact that they had a strong family history of exceptional longevity seemed to be the main commonality. This supports the notion that they have special genes protecting them from their environment.

    :
    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/24/health/a-conversation-with-nir-barzilai-it-s-not-the-yogurt-looking-for-longevity-genes.html

    Genes. Some people can handle copious amounts of carbs; some can't, it goes straight to the belly.

    I notice that people of shorter statute and prone to lean muscle mass do better on high carb diets; people of average stature do not.

  15. suspiria_2


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    15   1:31pm Thu 25 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/magazine/the-island-where-people-forget-to-die.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

    pay attention to the details. it isn't just about food, but the entire lifestyle.

  16. elliemae


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    16   9:32am Fri 26 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    suspiria_2 says

    it isn't just about food, but the entire lifestyle.

    sure! we need to eat better, work smarter and relax more. And be physically active in productive ways. Sitting on your ass on the couch eating potato chips doesn't help your body at all...

  17. thunderlips11


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    17   1:08pm Tue 30 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected  

    Here's a really interesting bit about nutrition, saturated fat, and how oversimplifying things creates problems.

    http://tinyurl.com/94rl853

    Another problem is that endurance athletes are often the fitness advisers. What an active, perpetually training endurance athlete eats and what a person doing the recommended 30 min x 3-4/week needs are two very different things. Endurance Athletes like cyclists who put in several hours a day of intensive cardio can consume a diet much higher in carbs than mostly sedentary workers, who, at best are only walking around the office a few times during lunch hour or hitting the treadmill MWF for 30 minutes.

    Turning everybody in cycling or track fanatics isn't going to work; it isn't working now. As mentioned in another thread, the obesity epidemic really began in the early 80s after the popularity of the Pritikin Diet: Americans consume 20% less fat than they did in the 70s. Problem is, they've replaced the fat with starchy foods and especially sugary drinks.

    It's not usual to see a dieter push away meat, eat a whole wheat bagel instead and wash it down with a $4 expresso drink from Starbucks. Hey, coffee is a neutral food (but the 8oz of lactose - milk sugar - in it, ain't)! And it's not usual to see that person fail royally.

    Another thing I see at the gym here is middle aged people chatting on cell phones on the treadmill. If you have the breath to talk, you ain't getting your heart rate up high enough and are wasting your time. Also, the calories burned displayed are usually off by 100%+. If it said you burned 700, you probably burned 300, and probably not even that much.

  18. elliemae


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    18   7:23am Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    IMHO, people don't poop enough. My doctor & I had this conversation - the drug stores are full of products that help artifically stimulate your digestive system. We need to get healthy from the inside out.

    Seriously. A healthy diet, along with exercise, is designed to help your body utilize food and efficiently expell waste. Heartburn, anxiety, pain, and poor quality foods contribute to people becoming constipated. Inflammation too. We have developed a sedentary lifestyle and expect to fix it with medications. So people eat the wrong stuff, don't exercise and rely upon medications to help eliminate the food.

    I'm not a clinician, nor am I an expert. But in my 25 years of experience, I've noticed that so many people complain of indigestion and constipation. This leads to headaches, stomach aches, etc. With exercise and a better diet, they can feel better. Instead of looking for the easy fix, they need to supplement their diet with fiber or eat a balanced diet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyllium

    It's a start.

  19. YesYNot


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    19   8:09am Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    What if the focus on fats, carbs, and protein is too simple.

    Pritikin didn't advocate eating lattes, low fat cakes, potato chips (high fat), sodas etc. From Wikipedia:

    The Pritikin Program was often described by Nathan Pritikin, its creator, as “mankind’s original meal plan.” That’s because the focus of the Pritikin diet is unprocessed or minimally processed straight-from-nature foods like fruits, vegetables, legumes (such as black beans and pinto beans), whole grains such as brown rice, starchy vegetables like potatoes and yams, lean meat, and seafood.

    Gary Taubes often creates this straw man argument by claiming that we tried the Pritikin diet. But, the message was largely simplified to 'low fat,' and it wasn't even followed well. People simply replaced a few high fat cakes with sweet and salty fake oil cakes. The typical American diet is moderate fat, very low fiber, and high in refined carbs. It is nothing like what Pritikin originally recommended.

    I agree with Ellie on the fiber issue. But you are probably much better off getting your fiber from whole plants rather than supplementing a low fiber diet by taking soluble fiber out of a can.

  20. errc


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    20   8:16am Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Ellie, I'm going to have to strongly disagree. Poop is waste. Food is fuel. Lots of poop means inefficient utilization of the fuel. Unless I stray from my usual food inputs, the most I poop is one little pooper in the morning, and that's probably half out of habit. Also disagree strongly with supplementing ones diet with fiber,,,,fiber, what is it good for?

    http://www.westonaprice.org/thumbs-up-reviews/fiber-menace

    http://www.fibermenace.com/gutsense/transition.html

  21. joshuatrio


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    21   8:17am Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Gotta have my carbs. Eating a bowl of spaghetti at night increases my bike commute time to work by 1-2 minutes.

  22. errc


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    22   8:42am Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Carbs are ok in moderation, when they come packed in fiberous fruits and veggies. Those of us that live in cold climates benefit from upping our fruit (fructose) intake heading into the cold seasons, because that's the bodys signal to store some extra fat.

    I like spaghetti myself, but the noodles are so unhealthy, so I use spaghetti squash which you can doctor up and is much more flavorful than noodles. Mix it up with some eggplant and meatballs and homemade tomato sauce, for the win!

  23. errc


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    23   8:57am Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    It's not usual to see a dieter push away meat,eat a whole wheatbagelinsteadandwash it down with a $4 expresso drink from Starbucks. Hey, coffee is a neutral food (but the8oz of lactose - milk sugar - init,ain't)!Andit's notusualto see thatperson fail royally.

    I went to a "paleo pot luck" at my crossfit box recently. I love food, and I love sharing good food with others. Nothing made me happier then seeing the whole crew of people who are conscious about their health, enough so that they are regularly in the gym working on fitness, absolutely gorging themselves on heaping plates of delicious food!

    I can only imagine what a SAD'er at a normal gym with conventional wisdom and the advice from Harvard health and usfedgov as their guiding light,,,would look like at a pot luck. Poor confused, malnourished souls

  24. Quigley


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    24   9:52am Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    From info I've recently acquired, the most beneficial component of our diet to focus on is probably Omega 3 fatty acids. These reduce inflammation and give neurons something to use to repair themselves and replace old cells. Women especially will benefit from this as they are biologically directed to stockpile this fatty acid and will be driven to overeat if they can't obtain enough of it.
    The best source is fish, but if you don't like fish or can't get it, cod liver oil comes in gel capsules that will get the job done and are cheap. It's interesting to me how this very old school remedy may be just the panacea our nation of fatties needs to regain health and normal weight.

  25. Quigley


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    25   9:55am Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    I also suspect a link to Alzheimer's disease with its prevalence having increased in step with the saturation of the American diet with vegetable oil that contains omega 6 rather than omega 3. It's a disease that medicine can't seem to fix. Makes sense it would have its origins in something simple like nutrition.

  26. joshuatrio


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    26   12:26pm Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    errc says

    Carbs are ok in moderation, when they come packed in fiberous fruits and veggies.

    For sure - my wife makes a killer dish. Really simple. Just some wheat pasta, and sliced (lightly cooked) zuccini, squash, peppers, onions topped with a little bit of grated cheese.

    She's also resorted to make EVERYTHING from scratch.. salad dressings, bread, all desserts (cut out the hydrogenated oils). Probably about 70% of what we eat are fruits/veggies, the rest meat and carbs (bread/pasta).

    Being a bike commuter, you gotta have carbs. If you don't, by day 2 or 3 of commuting, there is no life left in your body. All the fruits/nuts/vegetables are no substitute for bread and pasta... : )

    errc says

    It's not usual to see a dieter push away meat,eat a whole wheatbagelinsteadandwash it down with a $4 expresso drink from Starbucks. Hey, coffee is a neutral food (but the8oz of lactose - milk sugar - init,ain't)!Andit's notusualto see thatperson fail royally.

    That's funny. People on a diet, sucking down latte's.

  27. edvard2


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    27   12:38pm Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I don't necessarily think diets have to be that drastic. Its just that people might want to sort of moderate what they eat. For example- I went and visited my parents in NC a few weeks ago. I'd say that at least 60-70% of the population in their area is obese. But if you look around about 90% of the available restaurants are chains, and especially burger/fast food/ whatever types of places. I've lived in the Bay Area for 12 years and it seems that a lot of he restaurants here serve less fatty dishes. There's also less chains. I totally don't even pay attention to this until I go home. Then I spend a few days basically eating large quantities of fatty foods. I went to one place that serves hamburger type stuff and the burger was literally DRIPPING with fat. It was good but needless to say it tore my stomach up. People around there eat this kind of food often. So there's no mystery as to why there are a lot of obese people there.

    I eat pretty much what I want. The important thing is getting exercise and being active.

  28. MrsK


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    28   1:06pm Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    This is a really interesting thread. It makes me realize I don't think enough about my diet per se. I would call the way I eat "Minnesota circa 1978" which is good for the budget and my family seems to rarely get sick. As a Navy wife, I go to the commissary twice a month on payday. This means we eat like kings for 4 or 5 days with fresh fruit and veggies and lovely homemade lunches featuring deli cut meat sandwhiches. I like to buy meat that cooks well in the crock pot and we have lots of hot dish (if you are not from MN, this is a casserole, usually held together with cream of mushroom soup). Things get interesting from days 10-14 as we run out of bread and eggs. My kids tell me they actually like these days as we totally clean out the cupboards, get creative and have canned fruit with everything.

    I think this is what someone else meant by a "poor person's diet." We don't eat out very much, I don't buy soda (we drink a ton of milk) and no one in the family is overweight.

  29. exflirt


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    29   1:48pm Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    edvard2 says

    I don't necessarily think diets have to be that drastic. Its just that people might want to sort of moderate what they eat.

    The only reason these types of healthier eating seem drastic is because they're being compared to the standard American diet, which is pretty much the worst one on the planet.

    Making your items at home, while very time consuming, ensures that fresh healthy ingredients can be used without resorting to a processed food item full of chemicals to allow for lengthy storage.

    While any changes in the direction of a healthy, whole foods diet is good, calling them adequate and satisfactory is another thing altogether.

    I too found Forks Over Knives to be a very menu altering experience. I eat mostly whole food vegan now (I just cannot live without cheese, although I eat low-fat versions and very little - and I put horrible sugar free coffeemate in my morning coffee) for health reasons and cannot believe the difference in how I feel. My energy is up along with my mood, it no longer takes me hours to "get going" in the morning, and I get comments _all-the-time_ in the direction of how young I look and that people can't believe I have any children let alone three. It takes dedication and planning, but I am happy to do it because the food that our country eats is so appalling, reflected by our health care spending, and I feel that myself and my health are worth a bit of inconvenience and planning.

  30. errc


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    30   2:06pm Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Eating food that has adverse effects on the body, in moderation, is not healthy. It may be somewhat less unhealthy, but still not healthy by any means.

    You have to be open to the assumption that everything you think you know about food, could be wrong. Food pyramid, 3+ meals a day, 8 cups of water= necessary, fiber=good, low fat = healthy.

    Nutrition is basal to all health. Sure, there are many components to being healthy. Stress (cortisol) is deadly. A good nights sleep is pinnacle,,,laughing/smiling is a must. Lots of sex = good.

  31. joshuatrio


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    31   2:10pm Thu 1 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    exflirt says

    The only reason these types of healthier eating seem drastic is because they're being compared to the standard American diet, which is pretty much the worst one on the planet.

    Great point.

    errc says

    Lots of sex = good.

    Even better point.

  32. elliemae


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    32   2:55am Fri 2 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected  

    joshuatrio says

    Even better point.

    Even better with a partner.

  33. elliemae


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    33   11:08am Sun 4 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    errc says

    Ellie, I'm going to have to strongly disagree. Poop is waste. Food is fuel. Lots of poop means inefficient utilization of the fuel.

    The articles you linked to were interesting. The problem as I see it is that people don't look at everything they're putting into their mouths. They are looking to medications and/or supplements to fix the problems that eminate from what they're shoving into their mouths.

    It used to be that we ate in moderation, mostly because food wasn't so plentiful. Whether we expended calories hunting/gathering, or walked to the store to buy something to cook that day (or picked it from our gardens), we didn't have the amounts of food available. Food was a necessary thing, but not the goal.

    Things have changed, we now center our lives around it. We reward ourselves with food, we reward our children with food, we eat socially, have entire television channels centered around food. We offer up infomercials on items that prepare & cook our food as if they were Gods. There are so many diet books out there it's crazy.

    People - at least so many of them that I see (and I see many!) - buy into all the shit. Instead of going for a walk everyday, they buy a new exercise machine and use it for a couple of weeks. Instead of eating a balanced meal, they eat a fad diet that starves them and can't understand why they gain back the weight.

    My point about pooping is that we don't effectively eliminate our waste products without supplements. If you're constipated, take a pill. If you have loose stools, take a pill. If you do this constantly, it becomes normal.

    If people were to drink more water along with the diet of white flour, less roughage and sugar, it's not enough. They need to eat everything in moderation. And if they do, they'll be able to stop taking otc pills & remedies to cure their problems.

    MrsK says

    This means we eat like kings for 4 or 5 days...things get interesting from days 10-14 as we run out of bread and eggs. My kids tell me they actually like these days as we totally clean out the cupboards, get creative and have canned fruit with everything...

    We used to call leftovers "must-goes" and make creative dishes. My kids liked that too.

    Your "diet" sounds balanced, and it sounds like you're meeting your family's nutritional needs. My issue is with the people who do your first five days, repeatedly; except they supplement with restaurants & fast food. They stop by starbucks every day for their low-fat-mocha-latte (websites say somewhere around 350 calories for a "venti" size); of course, because they're hungry they'll order a cranberry-orange scone too (460 calories).

    Then, they can't figure out why they're fat.

    We need to treat our bodies better. Eat better, exercise better, feel better. Exercise helps stave off depression, is a social event, and is fun. Eating healthy takes more time, but preparing the food becomes the event instead of the eating of it.

  34. elliemae


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    34   11:10am Sun 4 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    On another note, I drive around ALOT for work, and often don't bring my lunch. I snack on fruit in the car, but meet different coworkers for lunch... sure, I eat my share of burgers or other "things," but I also order salads and healthy fare. I'm comfortable with my diet and have actually lost a few pounds in the past few weeks. While not "fat," I'm not where I'd like to be...

    However, I work with a young woman whose fiance in his early 20's had a wart that grew overnight into the monster of cancerous tumors. This otherwise healthy couple with a 2 year old child and no health insurance has maxed out payday loans.

    They were lucky enough to have a medical provider who will provide radiation as long as they pay $50 a shot, but combined with the hosptial bills they're broke as snot. They each make around $8/hour (he continues to work while he is being treated, his boss is very understanding and is allowing him to adjust his schedule) so they don't qualify for any financial assistance with the med bills.

    They can barely pay the $50 copay. They have no money for their ongoing (required) CT scans and MRI's. They also have no money for their ongoing medications that would help with side effects from his treatment, including pain meds and nausea meds. Radiation is an evil thing, but it's his only chance. These people are nice, hardworking individuals who aren't asking for help, other than with maneuvering around the system.

    So, I'm giving up my work lunches for the next month. I figure I probably spend $200/month on lunch/coffee from 7-11/treats, and am writing her a check for this amount. I'm also suggesting that my co-workers do the same. Every little bit helps.

  35. Dan8267


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    35   5:22pm Sun 4 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Hey ladies, I have a high protein, low carb diet that is guarantee to help you lose weight. Did you know that semen contains

    Fructose
    ascorbic acid
    zinc
    protein
    calcium
    blood group antigens
    citric acid
    Magnesium
    vitamin B12
    phosphorus
    sodium
    potassium
    nitrogen
    and other nutrients

    And did you know that swallowing semen reduces you chances of getting breast cancer?

    Doctors had never suspected a link between the act of fellatio and breast cancer, but new research being performed at North Carolina State University is starting to suggest that there could be an important link between the two.

    In a study of over 15,000 women suspected of having performed regular fellatio and swallowed the ejaculatory fluid, over the past ten years, the researchers found that those actually having performed the act regularly, one to two times a week, had a lower occurrence of breast cancer than those who had not.

    Please ignore any subsequent study discrediting this one.

    And my baby juice has been scientifically proven to increase life expectancy among swallowers.

    Women who make regular contact with semen live longer and age less than women who do not, scientists have discovered.

    The finding that women who swallow semen and do not use condoms during vaginal sex, live longer and have reduced signs of ageing, has led one researcher to conclude that semen is a miracle potion that should be treasured by every woman.

    Male sperm contains vital chemicals that slow down the ageing process and increases life expectancy by up to 35%.

    35%! That's better than all the crap you throw your money on like

    And best of all, it's free!

    So ladies, act now because supplies are limited. Order now, and I'll include a free facial.

  36. Patrick


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    36   5:34pm Sun 4 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    You may be joking, but there is serious scientific evidence of certain benefits from that:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10706945

    http://www.momlogic.com/2009/06/is_oral_sex_good_for_your_fetu.php

    Totally a case of selection of evidence I want to believe, but still.

  37. elliemae


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    37   5:56pm Sun 4 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Dan8267 says

    Hey ladies, I have a high protein, low carb diet that is guarantee to help you lose weight. Did you know that semen contains

    Are you selling yours, or merely suggesting that women should ingest more in general?

    Just curious...

  38. HEY YOU


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    38   6:21pm Sun 4 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Will anyone get out of here alive, regardless of their health?

  39. Dan8267


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    39   8:38pm Sun 4 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    You may be joking, but there is serious scientific evidence of certain benefits from that:

    Oh, I've volunteered for the studies.

    You posts actually had me convinced until

    This merited a trip to Wikipedia, ...

    Well, that explains it.

    elliemae says

    Are you selling yours, or merely suggesting that women should ingest more in general?

    You'll find mine on the discount rack next to the name brand Formula 401.

  40. APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch


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    40   4:01pm Sat 17 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    The ancient Minoans lived to 300 years old on a diet of fish, fruits and veg and vigorous fucking on the beach - 3-10 times a day - followed by leisurely swims.

    You don't have to live on Crete to enjoy it's benefits.

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