WatchAfter several years of encouragement by readers, I've decided to take their advice and write a short (100 page) self-published book based on my original rant at http://patrick.net/housing/crash1.html
Any suggestions for the title? I'm thinking of "The Housing Trap".
And what should the cost be? I'm thinking $14. Has to be somewhat high to make it worthwhile. Unless I can sell a zillion copies.
Speaking of selling, I'd be grateful for marketing advice. I've got Patrick.net, but how else to sell it?
It might make a very good gift that friends can give to friends who are about to be trapped in a bad mortgage.
Follow
Befriend (3)
28 threads
747 comments
Tarzana, CA
ok, here it is and I hope it fits, I had to finish while it was fresh in my mind.
I, David Banas, give Patrick Killelea the exclusive right and permission to use this writing and story
for his book, edited or unedited, with no legal binding for either party.
My real estate story begins in 1993 before patrick.net came onto the internet. My first friend in California, a native, dear, and late friend Diane had always told me to watch for spikes and subsequent declines in the California real estate market. 1993 in my observations was post a small bubble, home prices had declined and there were real estate auctions in the newspaper, one of which caught my eye, a new building in Van Nuys, California, all the units were 2 bedroom and 2 bath, bright white paint, skylights, and new gray carpet, very urban chic. I registered with the auction company; an end unit on the second floor fell out of escrow. I got it. What I remember most is driving up to my new home and Steve Winwood, 'The Finer Things' was playing on the radio
and this fit perfectly.
Life was ideal for 10 months until January 17, 1994 at 4:31am, the Northridge earthquake. My father and brother were visiting me, scoping out California, they were in the living room, I was in my bedroom, and my roommate was in his. I remember waking up and seeing the walls moving back and forth and thought 'this is a large quake'. The violent back and forth and up and down motion grew even stronger, the sounds were indescribable, the rocks grinding beneath us, the building screaming from the inside, glass shattering, clunks and bangs from objects falling. There was a huge jolt, the windows had turned into diamond shapes as I watched the wall in front of me split in the middle spewing out the drywall chalk. Then I thought, 'So this is how I will die?' and it was strange to me that I would die this way. The shock waves kept coming, and the armoire in front of the bed flew away from the wall, landing on top of me, cutting my knee through a bed comforter. This is when I started to scream. Then I heard my dad say, 'Hang in there David', not that I ever doubted it, but the thought came to me that I knew he loved me. What seemed like an eternity but the shaking did stop along with the sound of the grinding rocks, yet, the building keep swaying for a few seconds slowly coming to a stop as I watched my stereo speakers dance by themselves.
Property values tanked after the quake, people just walked away from their condos, and I was upside down in my mortgage until the year 2000. At that time, I was in no hurry to sell, it was just nice to know I could if I wanted too. 2001 arrives, the condo is worth a bit more, nice. 2002, wow, that much more than I paid? 2003 I'm seriously considering selling and have invited a couple realtors over for a price evaluation. 2004, omg.
2005, or there about, an astute, intelligent, and articulate young man named Patrick launches the patrick.net web site. I never posted at the time but even then remember telling people about this real estate web site that has these great articles gathered from different sources on the internet every day. I agreed with and resonated with many of the articles and viewer posts.
Yes, I had tried being a Real Estate agent at one time in the late 1990’s, so I knew vacant places sell better. All these years in Los Angeles and I had never actually lived in the city, so at that time and market frenzy, I rented a studio apartment in a nice section of Hollywood just north of Sunset Boulevard. Even with my ditzy realtor, the vacant condo sold in about a month. This was a happy time in my life, walking to the grocery store, a jazz club, restaurants, or the gym. Of course, over the next two years, my realtor would call, ‘David, there is this one bedroom for Three hundred thousand dollars, it’s just fabulous’. True, it was nice, but I was still reading the articles and postings on Patrick’s web site and just wasn’t interested. Just because, I rented a different studio with a view of the Hollywood sign in the same neighborhood. I liked it there.
As with everyone, life changes, it’s now 2006, my employer at the time is going bankrupt, yet, the last open house I went too in West Hollywood was a one bedroom and den for four hundred ninety nine thousand dollars. It didn’t’ have a view, but I remember it had a nice, large balcony. Even then, the economy and the housing market seemed really out of whack. My realtor still calls. People still think Patrick is crazy that this is not going to last. I start to look at homes in other states on the internet. Hmm, both coasts, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, all expensive. I have to look for a job soon anyway, wouldn’t it be great to own a home outright? Dallas, Texas, right in the city I see online this condo complex built like a French Chateau. I research the job market, I buy a plane ticket. Hotter in the summer, colder in the winter, but not quite as humid as the east coast. The people are friendly and I never really had any business at the Beverly Hilton, there are Targets, grocery stores, and active nightlife in urban Dallas. I buy another plane ticket and write a check for a 2 bedroom, 1 and ½ bath, one thousand square foot condominium in the complex I want. Within two months I land an IT contract for more money than I had ever made in my entire life. Needless to say, I am on cloud nine. I continue with the IT contracts in Texas and other states with companies I am proud to say I have worked at and gain valuable skills doing so.
The financial crash of 2008 spared no one. The phone went dead. I moved back to
California and stayed with my father.
Life, it’s all about choices and you need accurate information to make informed decisions. What if I had purchased the 300k or the 500k condo? I had the down payment and a job. Someone would have given me a sub-prime mortgage to make the financing work.
Worth mentioning, even on this side of the housing bubble, I have again avoided
financial mishap by say purchasing a coastal property in 2009 or 2010 by continuing to follow Patrick.net with it's intelligent followers and many times with laughter.
Not going to go into the political, financial, and inner workings of the real estate market here. Go read the articles and postings on Patrick.net, join a conversation if you like. I did and I think I won. This is just my story. Again, as always, Thank you so much.
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,188 threads
6,157 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says
I do think all RE transactions since 1995 should be investigated for fraud and I do this you should be the sentencing judge, but I'm a little worried that referring to my good friend and correspondent APOCALYPSE FUCK is Shostakovitch will disturb and confuse readers. I have to figure out how to lead up to that.
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,208 comments
Premium
Patrick says
Yes, because I am not Shostakovitch and I have to learn to live with that.
You can call me APOCALYPSE FUCK for short.
There.
Fixed.
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,188 threads
6,157 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
I hardly know where to begin. You spout so many self-serving platitudes.
OK, let's start here. Why should you give an agent the power to hide offers on your house when you're a seller, or the power to hide your offer when you're a buyer?
There is no good reason. Agents just try to use fear to get people to make really stupid decisions. Agents like you.
Buyers should always mail their offer directly to the seller. They should never give it to their own agent, or to the seller's agent. That is the only way to stop people like you from harming them.
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,208 comments
Premium
Fun in real estate is buying cash in a FSBO transaction.
Impaling convicted Realtors and Banksters on the front lawn.
Inviting the neighbors over for a beer and cursing them to hell while they die.
Fun.
Follow
Befriend (1)
7 threads
70 comments
Vero Beach, FL
Good Luck, Patrick! Even though I am a Realtor myself, I'm not exactly typical. I have advised clients to read your site. :-)
Follow
Befriend (25)
413 threads
6,981 comments
Saint George, UT
elliemae's website
David Losh says
Hmm. So, no realtors lost money in the bubble because they were such brilliant negotiators? Where are all these wealthy realtor land barons? A real estate commission is cheap? Would you go into a store, choose an item, and then pay 7% higher just because the salesman knew which keys on the register to push and the paperwork to complete?
Realtors claim that they know all of the disclosure forms to complete, but that's public knowlege. Paying an attorney a straight consultation fee saves the commission - and buys you legal advice from a professional. Remember that anyone can place an ad.
David Losh says
Is every real estate agent a skilled negotiator?
David Losh says
We really don't care how much money it takes to run an agency or a brokerage. I dare say that he vast majority of people on this site don't like being held hostage in land transactions by people who took a short course and think that they have the knowledge to sell property - and who show a blatent lack of respect for those people who choose to fsbo.
Realtors assert that their representation of the buyer nets them more money and less troubles - but when you add in the commission and the fact that the seller still has to provide all of the information in the disclosures, that doesn't seem to be true.
a href="/forum/?p=1215205&c=856753#comment-856753">David Losh says
Ah - first impressions count. If I were interviewing sales persons for my property, I wouldn't be interested in anyone who presented with an attitude that I would have to "convince them it's worth (their) time.
David Losh says
Exactly.
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,208 comments
Premium
Ellie
I wouldn't waste your breath. Talking to one of these criminal psychopaths is like visiting a convicted pederast murderer in jail. They'll look you straight in the face and tell you that cutting off a little kid's head and raping them before the body goes cold is an act of love and tenderness and celebration of life.
When you're dealing with a Realtor®, you're not dealing with a life form with emotional and psychological responses you'd associate with human beings. They're more like the creatures from Alien.
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,188 threads
6,157 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
David Losh says
1. Because they were bribed be some other buyer to hide your offer.
2. To get their own agency both sides of the commission.
3. To get themselves both sides of the commission.
4. To convince the seller that there are no offers, and that he'd better just sell it to the realtor himself.
5. To give the realtor's friend a better deal in buying it.
6. To convince the buyer that his offer was not accepted, and that he better raise the offer.
In short, for any reason that makes the agent more money.
Do I really need to go on? It is never a good idea to let someone negotiate for you when you can't see what they're doing.
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,208 comments
Premium
Rip his face off, Poobah!
Follow
Befriend
19 threads
1,534 comments
Los Angeles, CA
Patrick, consider writing a book not just about YOUR blog but more about 'the rise of the bubble blogs'.
About 2004 -2005 all of a sudden, there were a whole bunch of bubble blogs! a year or two earlier pretty much just one or two.
It became a weird group of people talking about the RE(credit) bubble. very interesting phenom.
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,208 comments
Premium
Poobah Pat's is best, though.
Follow
Befriend (28)
171 threads
4,208 comments
Premium
REALTOR SCUM! MORTGAGE BROKER SCUM! FUCKING DIE! DIE! DIE!
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,188 threads
6,157 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
David Losh says
You just refuse to listen.
I said "when you can't see what they're doing."
This is just like when Tom Stone got fired for telling the truth and you refused to directly address that point.
You're out of here permanently.
Follow
Befriend (25)
413 threads
6,981 comments
Saint George, UT
elliemae's website
David Losh says
I guess that could be true for many reasons, not the least of which is that I don't use realtors. My experience has been that they are pompous, egotistical people who are bursting with self-importance about the necessity of their "profession." They believe that listing a house, placing an ad and sitting back waiting for people to walk up with a wad of cash is worthy of a percentage of the sales price - and often attempt to negate the importance of real estate attorneys because they feel threatened by these highly educated people who adhere to professional codes of ethics and charge for the work they actually perform. Considering that in 2008 the NAR reported that 81% of realtors make less than $50k per year (gross income)... well, not exactly a lucrative profession that attracts the best & the brightest. After factoring in their expenses, I imagine that their income drops by 50% or more. IMHO, of course.
Unless you were making a weak attempt to make a derogatory remark about me - and even though you say that, if you were to meet me without knowing that I'm the world renowned elliemae and find out that I have over 40% equity in my home and live in an area that still sells fairly well, I believe that you would hound me to list my house just as the realtors in our area continue to do. You are just pissed because you're posting on a site that has hundreds of people who've stated over the years that most realtors that the forum members have met are pretty much useless - that they list the house & disappear, only to show up to pick up the check.
Any job that requires a short course, after which the student is considered qualified to get paid for accidentally meeting someone who ends up buying a house, isn't really a profession. Especially if the "graduate" says:
David Losh says
If it’s true that the training required to become a realtor (which can be done online, by mail, or in person) provides completely useless information during the mandatory education process, it probably doesn't attract the sharpest tools in the shed. I've met many of those tools, who continue to attempt to make a living as real estate sales people.
By the way, the following entities consider you to be a sales person:
US Department of Labor
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/real-estate-brokers-and-sales-agents.htm
Active Rain (realtor site/forum)
http://activerain.com/action/nav/show_featured/Real%20Estate%20Sales%20Person
Massachusetts
http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/government/oca-agencies/dpl-lp/consumer-fact-sheets/consumer-fact-sheet-2.html
Wikipedia (paragraph 3 - "...real estate brokers and sales persons (commonly called 'real estate agents...")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate_broker/agent
...and so on. I found references to top sales on coldwell banker, c-21, and other real estate sites. In fact, realtors gauge their success by amount of sales they participated in. If you aren't a sales person, why is your "profession" so focused on sales?
Your turn. Unless of course, you've been banned for being obnoxious.
Follow
Befriend
65 threads
188 comments
David9,
Your post feels somehow incomplete. Can you expand a little more?
David Losh,
I don't buy into many of the theories here, like the one about realtors hiding offers. I do think this can happen and I do believe there are cases where a realtor stands to profit from this, but I don't think this is very common.
On the other hand, I have met several realtors and they were/are all scumbags, some of them extremely scummy, with the exception of one. In the case of the one, I might be biased because she is my friend's mother.
David Losh says
Actually the NAR lies through their teeth about the state of the market and every realtor reads from the same script. So yes, they are out to get you.
David Losh says
You are actually defending yourself by saying that there are people who are worse than realtors.
David Losh says
The majority of houses in the bay area are above $750k once you get out of Oakland and the other shitty areas. 6% is a huge amount of money for the work a realtor does.
There is too much bullshit in your responses for me to address it all.
You say you are not one of the shitty ones. Well you are. Your statements on this thread show this.
Biff
Follow
Befriend
13 comments
Hey! Will you mention the ideas contained in my medical prescription to end this collossal financial collapse, Patrick? :)
http://thedepression.org.au/?p=11536
Follow
Befriend (3)
28 threads
747 comments
Tarzana, CA
Biff Baxter says
Appreciate the feedback from a reader's point of view.
I consciously tried to keep the writing to just 'My Story', even the earthquake sequence is real estate related as it had a profound effect on my life and property ownership.
I could easily go into rants about several subjects.
When reading it, why did if feel incomplete? Suggestions to make it more complete?
Follow
Befriend (25)
413 threads
6,981 comments
Saint George, UT
elliemae's website
elliemae forgot this little tidbit...
No, the first thing you know, old jed's a millionaire... the kinfolk said - "jed, move away from there!"
Follow
Befriend
65 threads
188 comments
David9 says
You're kidding, right?
Biff
Follow
Befriend (3)
28 threads
747 comments
Tarzana, CA
Biff Baxter says
No, I'm not kidding, it's a pitch for Patrick, it has focus, my real estate stories, includes references to the patrick.net website when applicable, did not go into any personal viewpoints, just a linear story.
Follow
Befriend (3)
28 threads
747 comments
Tarzana, CA
ptiemann says
Yes, I noticed that, I wrote it in MS Word and then pasted.
Thanks for the feedback, maybe I can fix the formatting..
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,188 threads
6,157 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
ptiemann says
I'm hoping the book is timeless advice.
It will be a short book, and hopefully very readable. I'm shooting for 100 pages of text. I already have most of it done, just need a lot of editing and formatting, and a cover illustration.
Follow
Befriend (13)
787 threads
1,542 comments
Patrick,
How about this for your title:
"The American Dream: Because you have to be asleep to believe in it"
Credits to George Carlin for the line.
Follow
Befriend (3)
28 threads
747 comments
Tarzana, CA
There. I fixed it. :)
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,188 threads
6,157 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
uomo_senza_nome says
I think I'd have to get permission from his estate or his publisher to use that as my title, or I'd be setting myself up to get sued, even if I credited George Carlin.
Follow
Befriend (3)
38 threads
801 comments
San Francisco, CA
Hunter S. Thomson's 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas' started as an attempt to write about the American Dream. A search for the American Dream.
'Buying a House:The Nightmare of the American Dream"
'Buying a House: The Break-up of the American Family"
"The Housing Trap: How U.S. Families Fail the American Dream"
"The Housing Trap: Nightmare on Mainstreet"
"The Housing Trap: An American Dream Wakes Up"
"The Housing Trap: Waking up from The American Dream"
Follow
Befriend (7)
37 threads
1,539 comments
Mountain View, CA
bmwman91's website
Premium
Fraud and Larceny in The Suburbs!
inspired by the above poster's reference to Fear & Loathing in LV.
Follow
Befriend
65 threads
188 comments
David9 says
That is better but I still think it should be longer.
Biff
Follow
Befriend (3)
28 threads
747 comments
Tarzana, CA
Biff Baxter says
Ok, I added: "Patrick.net with it's intelligent followers and many times with laughter."
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,188 threads
6,157 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
How about:
The Housing Trap: How Buyers Are Captured And Abused
Follow
Befriend (3)
28 threads
747 comments
Tarzana, CA
'Abused' brought to mind the recent Penn State boy child molester.
How about:
The Housing Trap: Don't Be a Victim of the Misguided Dream
or simply
The Housing Trap: A Misguided Dream
Follow
Befriend (3)
49 threads
482 comments
Roslyn, NY
The Housing Trap: You Are a Moron If You Want to Own a Home Unless You Are Filthy Rich.
Patrick K. gives the truth about how the majority of homebuyers plus homeowners are making the biggest financial mistake in their lives & digging themselves a hole of debt plus liability that will enslave them for life.
This book will show you why you as a homebuyer and homeowner are in the biggest potential financial trouble that any generation has EVER experienced in America.
Not getting and reading this book is the equivalent of unconsciously committing financial suicide and inducing yourself a heart attack that will leave you and your family...
HOMELESS on the continent which was founded by your forefathers.
Do you want to be BROKE, STARVING TO DEATH & a SLAVE of your mortgage provider, real estate broker & realtor?
If not than get this book because you are the sheep waiting to be slaughtered.
________________________________________________________
Defiantly get an excellent title for the book. Many books have flopped but succeeded after changing the title.
Pricing should be based on the market. Let the market decide what the price should be. Many books have flopped at a lower price but succeeded at a higher price. It's marketing and price can give a perception of value or lack of.
I suggest selling it for $19.97. (Use ending digit 7 because test results have shown it to be the best in getting the most sales.)
And also learn good sales copy and have a good sales ad to sell the book.
Use fastspring.com to process payments for the book. No monthly fee, no sign up fee, no activation fee. Just a percentage of sales. Check it out... It is the best payment processor I have seen with the most possible features. Better than paypal.
________________________________________________________
More titles...
Homeownership = Financial Suicide Unless You Are Rich.
Homeownership is Like Having Cancer: Both Are Unnecessarily Expensive.
Homes Are Shelter: Consumable Goods That Are NOT Investments!
Homes Are an Asset: A Depreciating Liability Asset!
Tell me if you like my title ideas and if you would like me to come up with more.
Good luck...
Follow
Befriend (25)
413 threads
6,981 comments
Saint George, UT
elliemae's website
"Don't Get Caught In The Housing Trap." (?)
Follow
Befriend (7)
29 threads
1,214 comments
31 male
Premium
I hope it's not a Realtwhore bash-a-thon. It's fun to do that here, but no reason to read a book about it. You want it to be an information book, so that the reader takes knowledge away that they didn't have before. It's mighty hard to fight conventional "wisdom". To flip it on it's head, you have to hammer home the falsehoods that "everybody knows",,,,,,"buying a house is(the best) investment you can make". It's important to show people in simplistic terms why the math for that doesn't really add up.
When your goal is a paradigm shift, you want to make the reader think that, in a way, they are coming to your desired conclusions, on their own. I've touted the book "why we get fat and what to do about it" by Taubes here before. It's scientific, easy as hell to read, and you ought to be left thinking "everything i knew was wrong", and be better informed. A simplistic analogy can do wonders
snip from his book---------------
Imagine you're invited to a celebratory dinner. The chef's talent is legendary, and the invitation says that this particular dinner is going to be a feast of monumental proportions. Bring your appetite, you're told--come hungry. How would you do it?
You might try to eat less over the course of the day--maybe even skip lunch, or breadfast and lunch. You might go to the gym for a particularly vigorous workout, or go for a longer run or swim than usual, to work up an appetite. You might even decide to walk to the dinner, rather than drive, for the same reason.
Now let's think about this for a moment. The instructions that we're constantly being given to lose weight--eat less(decrease the calories we take in) and exercise more (increase the calories we expend)--are the very same things we'll do if our purpose is to make ourselves hungry, to build up an appetite, to eat more. Now the existence of an obesity epidemic coincident with half a century of advice to eat less and exercise more begins to look less paradoxical
------------
Follow
Befriend (7)
29 threads
1,214 comments
31 male
Premium
as that applies to housing, 'everybody knows' that a house is a great investment,,,,but is it? To tie oneself to 30 years of debt bondage, essentially spend 1/3 of your lifetime of income, before you've even worked those next 30 years, doesn't sound like much of an investment, it sounds like "a death pledge" (to borrow the one posters tag that the etymology of mortgage is death pledge)
hopefully you leave the reader of your book with the information that allows them to decide if homeownership (via the traditional merican way of levering oneself to the hilt, shopping to a monthly payment, and using longterm mortgage) isn't really an investment at all. Sure, eventually the house is paid off. however, if wages are stagnant as the TI part of PITI rise over time, you are left with no more PI, but a burdensome TI bill, and increasing maintenance. Not to mention, in order to realize the gains from an investment, you have to actually sell it. So how great of an investment is buying a 150k house, paying 300k for it over the next 30 years, and then selling it for 200k (you're already down 100k), and leaving yourself with nowhere to live and dollars that have been devalued like a mother fucker, to buy necessities like food, shelter, health care, that have all outpaced your housing cash gains.
Follow
Befriend (9)
70 threads
930 comments
San Leandro, CA
Patrick says
Maybe Shorter; The Housing Trap, Captured & Abused ?
or "captured and milked"
or "captured and harvested"
or "captured, perpetually processed"
Follow
Befriend (2)
6 threads
29 comments
How about:
"Living in Captivity: The Plight of the American Homeowner"
Follow
Befriend (54)
5,188 threads
6,157 comments
46 male
Menlo Park, CA
Robber Baron Elite Scum says
But it's far more expensive than Paypal:
Fastspring: "Pricing is 5.9% plus $.95 or 8.9% flat per order, whichever you prefer."
Paypal charges only 3% plus 30 cents. I don't like Paypal because they have very bad customer service, but they do the job and are far cheaper than anything else I've found.
Follow
Befriend (9)
43 threads
288 comments
Danville, CA
gregpfielding's website
Patrick says
Patrick, you know I'm a fan and supporter, but this is simply an exaggeration. I agree with you completely that Realtor Associations did enormous damage to the public during the boom (David Lereah) and should be held more accountable. And, I agree that there are quite a few inept and/or crooked agents out there.
However, that doesn't mean that the best way to get your offer accepted is to circumvent the real estate agents involved. Remember, the Sellers hired their listing agent because they trust them and their advice. Circumventing that agent will probably to more harm than good. Practically speaking, you have a much greater chance of a successful purchase by playing the game the way you are expected to. And by being cool about it.
While everything on your list certainly could happen, those things are far more rare than people here might believe. Believe me, agents are not going to risk throwing away a paycheck by trying to con a client into paying a little more so they can make a few hundred extra bucks. Morality aside, the marginal extra commission is NOT worth it.
Fraud happens. But for most people the best solution is to find and worth with a good, honorable real estate agent who will protect them from your scenarios. Good real estate representation is worth every penny and then some.
Lastly, agents don't really negotiate for their clients. They are messengers and advisers. Often, when talking with the other agent, we discuss hypothetical middle ground on everything from price to closing date, to including the fridge in the deal, and then we go back and share with our clients. But it's always the clients who ultimately decide what actions to take.
Hate the game, not the player.