WatchI was trying to pin down exactly which line in the Realtors' bogus "Code of Ethics" got Tom Stone fired for giving his honest opinion of a property, but I don't see where the full code is available to the public.
See http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1214735 for how Tom got fired for giving his honest opinion.
Anyone have a publicly available copy?
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46 male
Menlo Park, CA
This is pretty funny already:
So realtors can LIE that 6% of a million dollars actually equals zero, as long as somewhere in the fine print they tell the truth?
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ELC says
What the hell kind of neighbourhoods were you dealing in? Jeez.
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ELC says
Well, depending on the greed involved I don't know anymore what 500K may or may not be today but I will presume it means realistic and very good areas. I have to tell you I have heard in many places especially a problem in CA and FL that some people do go to "open houses" just to raid them, especially medicine cabinets. I personally don't believe in an Open House, for all the reasons you mention.
Also the fact that real money that is serious about a property doesn't go to open houses. That shite is for losers, for Looky Lous in my view.
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Reader says
I think an agent can find more lucrative ways to spend their time that on an open house. However if the house is in a nice area on a street that gets a lot of traffic it is worth it to have an assistant or some "loser" from your office attend it. It's a long shot that it's going to sell the house doing open house but it could lead to a sale on down the road. At least once you have their phone number and email you can put them on autoresponder and autodialer and drip market to them practically for free until they're ready to buy. I never took buyers so I was looking to make a referal fee for doing next to nothing. Every little bit helps.
The sellers would like open houses too even though part of my pitch was to tell them open houses was one of the BS things Realtors did to make you think they're actually working hard for you. I would tell them the truth. Price it below market value and you'll have hungry agents stepping and fetching for you. Price it a little high and you'll just get lookers. Price it way too high and you won't get any showings. All I'm good for as a listing agent is to do a good job with the listing description, lots of photos and virtual tours and make sure the agents can easily contact me and show the house when it's convenient for them. That's really all I promised them and I would list 92% of my appointments.
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robertoaribas's website
http://www.realtor.org/mempolweb.nsf/pages/code/
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It's interesting that I don't see the railing against realtors or anyone else who sells for a living in my native midwest or mid Atlantic.
I grew up in the real estate and insurance businesses and while there was always plenty of questionable stuff going on I never saw the kind of plundering they are supposedly all guilty of.
Why do you people always have to portray yourselves as victims? Geez, if I thought someone was setting me up to be the nail I'd do something to give myself an advantage or get the hell out of the way.
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robertoaribas says
OK, I see you have to scroll down to see it. Now exactly what part of the ethics did Tom Stone violate by giving his honest opinion of a property for sale?
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robertoaribas's website
he would have to post his specific case, to have any guess... There are duties to treat each other professionally, etc, so it might depend on his specific post that he wrote.
Without knowing everything that happened, hard to say. But, I have observed that "pissing off other agents" seems to be an unwritten rule you can't break without repercussions, right or wrong.
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Patrick says
I didn't see the photos in question but I would say using the word "deceptive" might be a good start. If a Realtor takes bad photos they're incompetant but if they take flattering photos they're deceptive? There's no pleasing some people.
Realtors are supposed to work in cooperation to the benefit of the public. Tom could have never gotten in trouble if he called the agent, broker or even the real estate board and reported what he felt was deceptive photos. That would actually be helping. What he did was "bash the competition" and since Realtors are not supposed to be offically in competition he got in trouble.
I'm not saying he did this for personal gain but it could be said that he was critical of another Realtor to make himself look like the good guy so someone reading it would think he's cool, especially an investor who doesn't like Realtors or the seller whose listing he was critiquing might hire him. Tom might be above that but scores of Realtors aren't. There's no way to know for sure but unprofessional behavior in any form is the writing on the wall. You can't serve two masters. If he wants to publicly accuse individual Realtors of deception he should give up his license. Then all he needs to worry about is a defamation lawsuit.
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Patrick says
Of course, this doesn't surprise me.
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robertoaribas says
Does this imply that according to the N.A.R. Official Ethics Rules, any Listing Agent who does not answer telephone calls, emails Faxes or hides from Buyers agents is violating NAR Ethics Principles? As one local Bigshot Realtor Broker-Office Owner advised me it is NOT ILLEGAL to NOT be "polite" to "other" agents (scum sucking Buyers agents) by answering or returning telephone calls. Only when the Buyers Agent physically submits an offer ---and IF they "find" it in time, do they inform the seller ( how that is done-- is another story of obfusctaion). In many areas of California, Listing agents brag about not responding to Buyers agents. It's ironic that any Buyer can contact a Listing Agent ( its best if you are a "friend" or "in the pocket" on a list waiting for the listing ) and the "professional" Buyers agent gets a "no answer" or unreturned calls and emails. This is the MAIN reason why large "Full service" Realty Offices have their telephones screened by a clerk. They do NOT want to take calls from loser Buyers agents. They don't care about low-balling (almost non existent), but do NOT WANT TO GIVE AWAY half of their commission. Being a NON- Realtor has its advantages. It looks like Realtors are their own worst enemies.
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As a Buyer using a Buyers Agent...MANY MANY times I have learned more about a listing by going directly to the listing agent---using a bogus name---mail drop and out of area cell phone - of course.
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There is one more advantage IF the Buyer wants to go directly to the Listing agent: If a Buyer is represented by a Buyers agent in a sales transaction, the Buyer can NOT SUE the Buyers agent for lying or hiding problems or issues with the property IF the Listing Agent LIED to the Buyers agent. The Buyer is screwed, since the information although bogus was BELIEVED TO BE TRUE by the Buyers agent. In the case of Dual Agency...the Listing Agent walks a fine line and knows failure to represent BOTH sides equally can mean legal trouble. Listing agents can be sued for many reasons in Dual Agency contracts...that's another reason for a Listing agent to not go "Highest and Best" with so-called multiple offers---that do not exist. The Listing agent makes more money by selling at a lower price getting all the commission rather than getting less money by selling the price higher with a shared or split commission.
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investor90 says
Jeez, major sleeze factor going on here.
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investor90 says
I only took listings. The only time I would show a house was to help my seller find a new place to live. Having to deal with buyer's agents on a daily basis I found it hard not to get jaded.
I would get calls that they can't figure out how to open a simple lock box. I get clients complaining they left the doors unlocked. Didn't lock the key back in the lockbox. Peed on the toilet seat. Pooped and didn't flush. Used the guest towels. Smelly tampon in the trash can. Let their pet escape. Left the refrigerator open. Left the gabage disposal running. Left the TV on. Smoked a cigarette in the house. Messed up the newly made bed. Put the A/C to 60 degrees. Played with the dart board and left holes in the walls. Rearraged the furniture!
So I had to keep remembering that it's not the agent who's the buyer. As a listing agent my client is the seller and the buyer. Just because they picked a bad agent or I have a personality clash with their agent doesn't mean the client deserves being shunned.
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rootvg says
It would be interesting to study whether there are actually regional differences. I suspect there might be a huge difference between what Krugman called "the zoned zone" and flatland. In places like Texas, it's always possible to build more housing and prices therefore reflect fundamental value; realtors might actually be selling based on location, materials, etc. Around NYC and SF Bay though, which is to say "zoned zone" locations, everything is artificial. This even extends into commuting neighborhoods as far from NYC as Pennsylvania, where junk houses were thrown up and sold to subprime borrowers; the houses were built so badly that really the only way to fix them would be to tear them down and start over. There is nothing inherently evil about selling used cars, but the occupation tends to draw a certain type; those who find that used cars move too fast, become realtors instead.
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curious2 says
I hate to inform you go to CA and FL and the same were sold to high-end priced suckers (oh sorry I mean buyers.)
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Reader says
Usually very good neighborhoods. I tried to target houses 500K and up. I don't know if the Realtors did these things or the people they were showing the houses to. The dart board incident was supposedly done by the kid one of the buyers brought along with them.
I even had someone complain half a bottle of their pain medication was gone. Not long after some drug addict posing as a buyer got arrested. She would ask to use the restroom then look in the medicine cabinets for drugs.
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The only code of ethic realtors have is to suck as much commission out of the system, and guard the MLS like it was Fort Knox.
So far they have done a pretty good job with this. I give them an A+
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Raw says
You may have never thought about it but there are all sorts of regulations that maintain a pretty fair degree of quality control over the MLS. The way they maintain that control is they have the power to strip MLS users of their licenses, fine them or restrict access.
I know Realtors can be a pain and are expensive IF you sell, but if the public were allowed to enter a listing, handle the pricing, showings, and negotiations with nothing to lose the MLS would become total garbage in no time. It would be like Craigslist.