WatchThe economies of the developed world are all lumbering under unsustainable welfare statist economies. Charles Darwin worried that the least intelligent people would bare more children than the most intelligent.
The highest fertility rates are in Africa, where IQs languish in the 60s and 70s. In Europe and Asia IQs reach into. Triple digits. Mass immigration from high fertility populations pose a demographic threat that. politically correct news outlets won't permit to be
publicly articulated. In addition to lower IQs, these populations tend to exhibit higher rates of violent crime.
The fertility rate in Germany and Japan are both about 1.4. US fertility remains near the 2.1 replacement rate, but only due to the high birthrates among African and Hispanic Americans. In fact Obama has acknowledged the progressive drain on the economy that will result from an influx of immigrants.
A few decades of low fertility in the West and Far East can lead to civilization apocalypse.
(From Independent Living, August 2012)
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,572 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
Marriage and family laws are to blame. Child support wage slave rules combined with unequal treatment of men and women have made children a curse. No fault divorce is also a huge part of the problem as is the total abandonment of what marriage was originally supposed to do in society.
It's not an exaggeration to blame most of this on the feminist movement. It's also no surprise that women are more miserable than ever and most children are now raised without live-in fathers.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w14969
De-evolution is a real phenomenon. I'm sure Abe was going with the racism angle, but he brings up an important issue.
Follow
Befriend (41)
91 threads
1,806 comments
Iwog, thanks for your view. BTW, I don' t judge people by the cir of their skin, but by the content of their character. I'm "color blind". I'm also married to a minority...so the "racism" angle won't work with, or should I say, against me.
Follow
Befriend (3)
23 threads
130 comments
Minneapolis, MN
iwog says
Wow. That's quite a leap. Especially given the huge gains of women -- from surpassing the number of men attending college to the higher number of U.S. athletes at the London Olympics. We've still got a ways to go to catch up with men economically, but women are making progress. Kicking butt in college will help.
I looked at the study you sent and clipped some statements:
Finally, the changes brought about through the women’s movement may have decreased women’s happiness. The increased opportunity to succeed in many dimensions may have led to an increased likelihood of believing that one’s life is not measuring up. Similarly, women may now compare their lives to a broader group, INCLUDING MEN [emphasis mine], and find their lives more likely to come up short in this assessment. Or women may simply find the complexity and increased pressure in their modern lives to have come at the cost of happiness.
So what they're really saying is we don't know.
Another statistic in the story was telling: female suicide rates have been falling, even as male suicide rates have remained roughly constant through most of our sample.
More men kill themselves. But women are unhappier. Hmmmm. There's a disconnect there...
If you look around the web, there are lots of studies. Some say men are happier, women are happier, etc.
What I find distressing about your leap is that you made it so decisively. The study you presented can't determine the reason that women [in this study] were found to be less happy than men.
But you did.
Follow
Befriend (9)
165 threads
1,549 comments
Premium
Honest Abe says
Umm not necessarily. Once upon a time , China and India were the centers of civilization. America was discovered, because Columbus wanted to find an easier route to India.
Things changed-maybe these things go in cycles. Our problems are of our own making. You can't export all your expertise, jobs and factories and import their production and expect to be prosperous ? How does that make any sense??
On iwogs point- a big yes. As a modern male in a western country-why would anyone want to get married and have kids. You lose your entire freedom. The government takes over your life and you have to confirm according to some arbitary standards or be thrown into jail with rapists and murderers. There is no sense of fairness, you can't discipline your kids ever. If they are acting up, you cut their allowance or ask them to get a summer job to get somehting they really like-that teaches them a lot. But now the government will simply garnish your wages and give it over -no questions asked. of course the woman or in some cases the men could spend all of it on frivolous items-but you don't get to have a say.
It is one thing if this were true for the most abusive cases-but every American is subject to these rules. Tiger Wood's wife was barely married for a few years and she got 100 millon dollars-why?? Even if you have a prenup-the court can toss it out.
it is not gays that have ruined marraige-it is our stupid governemnt and its absurd laws-where the individual loses all power and is forced to conform to this arbitary rules and how on earth will someone have any ambition, when the government has this much power over you??
Then you look at the republican side and they want to use the government to control all sorts of other things and so I am left with no party.
If you look at countries with a growing population, they view kids very differently. Many are working and bring in money to the family coffers before they are ten. By 18, many are settled with families of their own. So it is easy for the parents to have many. Compare that to the western model-they are considered to be "kids" till 18 and if divorced, the gov t gets into your life and forces you to support them in the manner it thinks they need to be supported. Some like Charlie Sheen are forced to fork over 55k a month -which is tax free to the mother. On top of that, visitation is decided down to the last minute by the courts.
In the old days , family was supposed to be the shelter from the world. When the world shook you, you still have a home to come to. Now the big bad world seems to be a safer place then the family. I think if you recieve alimony-then you should do the work-cook, clean, or whatever-why only one should should give half and the other does nothing and enjoy????
Western family law is killing our desire to procreate. Yes, the feminists brought this along-which I think is ironic. If you want to work and be an equal-why fight for things like alimony-which basically says that women are helpless critters always to be supported by a man???
Follow
Befriend (3)
23 threads
130 comments
Minneapolis, MN
lostand confused says
Do you want examples of men getting alimony? There are lots of them -- ask Roseanne Barr.
This argument veers toward those that were put forth in different times and I would ask that you consider history in your argument. People want freedom, they ask for it, then they fight for it. People on the wrong side of history try to demonize those fighting for freedom, explaining that, hey -- wouldn't they be happier if we all just went back to simpler times when our side made all the rules?
It's not going to happen. Women are moving forward and they're not going to give up the fight.
Follow
Befriend (9)
165 threads
1,549 comments
Premium
97% of alimony is paid by men to women. Who is asking women to give up anything. We are just saying good for you-now learn to live by yourself and stop talking about it and do something.
Follow
Befriend (3)
23 threads
130 comments
Minneapolis, MN
lostand confused says
Well, it used to be 100 percent. Just think, you guys will catch up someday. And I do a lot of things. If you really want a response, you need to be more specific.
Follow
Befriend (9)
165 threads
1,549 comments
Premium
Strange off tangent response as usual.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,572 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
jhall says
It's my strongly held opinion based on my experiences in family law when our office handled divorce and child custody. I don't think there's any way to prove it, however it's interesting that women started becoming less happy around 1970 when everything was supposed to be getting better.
jhall says
Men are discriminated against in the United States and a few other 1st world nations to the point where they consider a pregnancy to be one of the worst events in their lives.
I'm a very strong opponent of forced child support and I think it's an atrocity that women can abandon a child at a hospital or a fire station without obligation while men are forced under the threat of law to carry a burden 18 years or longer.
In nations where there are more intelligent family laws, babies are still considered a blessing and marriage is more permanent.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,572 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
Regarding the "gains" that women have made, there are much darker truths that most people refuse to acknowledge. Female coeds are frequently paying their college tuition with sex while men don't have the option.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/seeking-arrangement-college-students_n_913373.html
Many women are hired solely on the basis of looks. Sales is a profession that is legendary for giving hot young teens a job while dismissing more qualified male candidates. Every executive wants a pretty young assistant and the most qualified man will never take her place. The ascent of women in college and the jobs market is the same graph as the ascent of wealth disparity.
The glass ceiling that feminists talk about is an excellent illustration of what is really happening. I engage contractors nearly every single day in my real estate business. When I call a new company, I ALWAYS talk to a young woman. When I want the estimate, I ALWAYS talk to an older man. I'm 46 and in my entire life I can't think of a single exception.
Follow
Befriend (3)
23 threads
130 comments
Minneapolis, MN
iwog says
But if you found one exception, would that change your stereotypical view of women? This sounds like it goes much deeper than "anti-feminism." Or women's happiness, for that matter. I'll leave it at that.
To Pat.net viewers, I apologize for my part in taking this thread off into a tangent. I feel strongly about all human rights, and I felt it was important to speak up here.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,572 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
jhall says
You're attacking me instead of the reality of the job market. If I found one exception, it would be one striking exception that would illustrate how extreme things are when it comes to gender and jobs.
Why would you bring up stereotypes anyway? Aren't you more interested in what is real instead of what people think about things?
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,572 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
Youre A Liar says
I don't do labels. I call out both sides when they deserve it. The feminist movement has perpetrated much evil on America and I'd be doing myself a disservice to pretend otherwise.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,572 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
Youre A Liar says
There really isn't a way to categorize my beliefs. Everything has a context and many issues are wrapped in several layers of conflicting interest, which is why people are so heated when it comes to law and politics.
I go with the biggest picture that affects the most people. One of the most vile and hateful acts that ruins lives, hurts children, disrupts society, and leaves poverty, mental anguish, and destruction in its wake is.............divorce. At best it results in a broken home and everyone involved more or less copes. At worst it has driven both fathers and mothers to murder their own children.
Yet the feminist movement created no-fault divorce and combined it with 18-years of slavery for any man (or woman) who had the bad sense to actually be successful in life.
You can make a million arguments why people should be free to get divorced whenever they feel like it. Individual liberty, you married a horrible person, your spouse is addicted to porn, etc.
However the bigger picture dictates my views here. Although I've been happily married for over 20 years, my experience with disaster law (bankruptcy and divorce) gives me enough perspective to take the conservative stance on this issue.
Follow
Befriend (5)
168 threads
5,098 comments
iwog says
I don't see your view as conservative per se. I don't know of a label that fits, other than perhaps confused.
We all miss the days when the family unit was healthier, and women were relagated to at least certain extent to certain roles. Sure a woman could become a business person or a doctor or a lawyer, but if they did so they were fighting against strong societal cultural forces.
As they gained more freedom, "the family" took a hit. It's very difficult as they say to have it all. To have a fulfilling career and also raise a family well if the father is working long hours too, is very tough. MAny do achieve it though.
I don't know Iwog. This is a complicated subject. The evolution of modern women having an impact on the deevolution of the family. Even that is an oversimplification.
IT seems to me a confusion of correlation with causation. I don't see how it's reasonable to place blame on the women's movement.
Even if you simplified it and said "I'm only blaming the women's movement for the decay of marriages and families," that still sounds unfair to me, even if there is some truth to it. MAybe this is just a stage, but also a natural part of evolution where population growth necessarily decreases.
Follow
Befriend
4 threads
342 comments
Phoenix, AZ
The Original Bankster's website
IWOG: FEMINISM HAS DESTROYED THE WORKPLACE.
Follow
Befriend (3)
12 threads
600 comments
Women are better, NO! men are better DOh!
Follow
Befriend (3)
13 threads
2,220 comments
San Jose, CA
Premium
iwog says
I remember interviewing a hot young woman for a position as a research assistant. When I'd ask her something technical she'd just smile and giggle. Later as I met with the hiring manager we both agreed while we'd love to be able to look at her hottness all day she had shown no ability to do the job. So no, she was not hired.
I have however worked with some achingly hot young women who were very capable.
Follow
Befriend (3)
12 threads
600 comments
This thread undermining women speaks only about the males who stand by it. Let's talk shrinkage? Same argument?
Follow
Befriend (3)
16 threads
1,379 comments
Victorville, CA
Premium
iwog says
IOWG Once again, you impress. I have been divorced 3 times. Each time it was destructive to my soul. HOWEVER I think it's incomplete to have this discussion without the mention of.........polygamy. I think it gets a bad wrap. If I could have kept all three of my beautiful girls, I would have, and then all 9 boys would have been with me full-time instead of ending up the soft city shits like they did. It's far more natural than bouncing around and making vows willy nilly.
Forget the noise. It makes sense that a man have two or three wives at once.
Follow
Befriend (2)
3 threads
552 comments
Madison, WI
Thank you Helen Gurley.
Follow
Befriend (3)
8 threads
335 comments
marcus says
The label is reactionary, for what it's worth.
(Not much.)
I think he's taking a narrow view of things. The boomer generation took at-will divorce and made a mess of their families en masse. This is statistically clear. If you blame that on feminism, then you can either have gender equality or stable families. Seems reasonable enough.
But are those our only choices?
I see signs that society is simply adapting to no-fault divorce. It looks like generations X and Y saw what a mess their parents made of their lives, and are backlashing hard against their fool-parents irresponsible behavior. These generations have resolved to not fuck up the way their parents did. The resolve is manifesting as later marriages. They're shopping harder for Mr. or Mrs. Right, but when they marry later they're also buying enhanced financial security and personal maturity.
The net effect amounts to a genuine reinvigoration of the institution of marriage. I think that as these trends play out over the next twenty years or so, iwog will change his tune.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2012/0213/Modern-romance-Gen-Y-is-late-to-the-wedding-but-wants-marriage
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-19/living/divorce.rates.drop_1_divorce-rate-divorce-laws-marriage?_s=PM:LIVING
Follow
Befriend (9)
165 threads
1,549 comments
Premium
Nah , the laws that led to these mess were feminist inspired. Alimony, community property, set amounts of child support-no matter what.
Way back then, a woman popped 13 kids, took care of all of them, the house, tended the livestock and did a whole bunch of other chores. Now it is 1 or two kids, everything is automated-from vacuum cleaners, heating/cooling systems, hot water, electric/gas stoves, all food available in one or two trips a week to Costco etc.
Someone who is a housewife to a nobody may get very little and yet when she performs the same labors with Tiger Woods-much less, because not only will she get nannies, cooks, drivers, massive shopping budgets, meeting with stars/celebrities etc.-she gets 100 million dollars. The same goes for the few men married to wealthy women-KFed and Brittany Spears.
The main problem is that our government has grown out of control. It now has the power to decide how long you can spend with your kids, how much money you should fork over. In some states, it does not even matter if "your" kid is not yours and you prove it by DNA-you still have to pay child support for nearly two decades and some states make you pay for college education too.
These are all feminist inspired laws-which I find to be the biggest hoax of all. If you are an equal-than you abolish all this, not force men to support you. Besides, if you look at history-women always worked-always. The only women who could afford not to work, were upper crust women-like the Romneys and the Bushes and others of their kind. The rest always worked in somehting or the other. Until recently, most work was physical and hard and men naturally excelled at those.
Witht he advent of industrialization , office jobs etc-physical strength became irrelevant and so women and men are equally effective and they have come in to the work force in large numbers. I have no problem with that-I have seen some wonderful women and even had mentors who happened to be woman. What I have a problem is the stupid laws that subject every American to this draconian meausre. For all the cries of the land of the free-we are not free. How can you be free-when somebody else gets to decide how much time you get to spend with your kid-not just yours, but every kid in America. How can you be free when the government can come in and say, you have to pay 55k a month in child support for the next 18 years-or you will be thrown in jail and spend time with rapists and murderers? How can you be free, when you work hard and toil and have to fork over millions in alimony-when another person who went through divorce almost pays nothing-because he/she was a bum?
Our govt penalizes hard work and success. Any state where they try alimony reform-forget child support reform-women's groups are the ones to fight it tooth and nail-that clearly shows their agenda-they want it both ways. They want to work and be equal and yet if they choose not to-they want to be treated like the helpless critters who can't make a choice and so should be supported for life. In fact several women are getting disgusted, because in some states, their income as second wives is included and they have to pay alimony to the first wife. Buty women't organization support this and that is why I think feminism is very hypocritical-equality means being independant and standing on your own feet-rights and responsibilities-not just the rights, but give the responsibilities over to men.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,572 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
Youre A Liar says
I'm no fan of military adventurism. I think Iraq was one of the biggest crimes of the century.
Follow
Befriend
9 threads
243 comments
Washington, DC
American fertility is now lower than that of France
CONSERVATIVE Americans like to contrast the vigour and virility of their own country with the decadence and decline of Europe. Demography is exhibit A in their argument. Mitt Romney, for example, talked about Europe’s “demographic disaster” as he ended his presidential bid in 2008, calling it “the inevitable product of weakened faith in the creator, failed families, disrespect for the sanctity of human life and eroded morality”.
Americans especially like to focus on the total fertility rate, or TFR, the average number of children a woman can expect to have during her lifetime. For years, America was unusual among rich countries in having a relatively high TFR of around 2.1, the so-called “replacement rate”, at which a population stabilises over the long term. European countries were typically below that rate, sometimes far below it.
So it comes as something of a shock to discover that in 2011 America’s fertility rate was below replacement level and below that of some large European countries. The American rate is now 1.9 and falling. France’s is 2.0 and stable. The rate in England is 2.0 and rising slightly.
http://www.economist.com/node/21560266
Follow
Befriend (13)
52 threads
2,639 comments
Premium
I'm also a fan of enforced visitation. If a woman refuses visitation repeatedly, she gives up child support after so many violations, and/or children switch primary custodian parents. Studies show that child support payments and refusal/difficulty in visitation are closely related. Also, child support should be on a special card that can only be used for children. Recipients should be forced to document the charges and prove that it was not spent on themselves, but on the children.
Child Support is not "Ex-Spouse Income for general purposes", it should be for the children and only the children.
Also what msilenus said about divorce: It's generational. Y and X are in much better shape. Also, the divorce stats can be misleading because there are serial "Marriers", a minority of people who get married and divorced 4+ times in their lives that mess up the stats.
Honest Abe says
This is bullshit. Africa is far less densely populated than Europe and many of the poorer Asian countries. Laos has less people than Norway. Immigrants tend to be smarter and more entrepreneurial than average.
Kenya and France are have roughly the same land area. France has more than twice the population of Kenya and is about twice as dense. France is 2/3 urban; Kenya is only 1/3 urban. And Kenya is one of the better sub-saharan countries.
IQ changes radically between educated and non-educated populations. Learning geometry, sentence structure, etc. changes how the mind works in the long term, and IQ tests cannot compensate for the difference.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,572 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
I would ban child support orders in all cases unless both of these conditions are met:
1. The couple was married.
2. The child was biologically the husband's.
Follow
Befriend (13)
52 threads
2,639 comments
Premium
iwog says
This is another GREAT point. I believe Georgia is one of the few/only states where paternity fraud is a crime.
It absolutely is - is there anything more emotionally, financially, and even physically draining than being fooled into paying/caring for a child that isn't yours?
Genetic Testing at birth should be mandatory (or earlier if possible).
Many states don't want this because they want any man to pay, even if he isn't the right man, so they don't have to.
And the so called "Child/Family" welfare groups are ultra anti-male.
Follow
Befriend (48)
274 threads
12,572 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
thunderlips11 says
Absolutely correct. Many single mothers end up on welfare, and the larger the pool of potential slave daddies, the easier the state can go back and demand payment.
Follow
Befriend (3)
13 threads
2,220 comments
San Jose, CA
Premium
iwog says
This century has just begun - you ain't seen nuthin' yet!
Follow
Befriend (2)
3 threads
552 comments
Madison, WI
The saddest thing is how many women screw around so much they don't know who the Daddy's are anymore, now if that is not sexual freedom I don't know what else is, some of today's girls are with more guys in a month than I'll have in a lifetime of being single. They are so secretive about it, taking sexual predation to a whole new and different level.
iwog says